Discussion Socialism Discussion Thread

[Fercho]

You are repeating russian war propaganda through and through. Justifiing war and potential mass murdering. Congratulations. Sure those ready for attack army on the ukrainian border is just there for fun.

There is no way that Putin attacks Ukraine any time soon. The Ukrainian people ALONE will give Putin hell to pay and he knows it. All the parties are using Ukraine as an opportunity to benefit their political agendas, nothing more. Even the people in Kiev are like "hey, let him attack, see how that goes zips coffee

Putin will not risk his decades long dictatorship over this, the world is a different place since 1939. The fear mongering is making my head hurt.

 

[Mekanos]

You are repeating russian war propaganda through and through. They justifiing war and potential mass murdering. Congratulations.

Sure those ready for attack army on the ukrainian border is just there for holiday like in crimea...

The fact that you’re in a socialism thread and unwilling to engage socialists in good faith probably means you have more learning to do if you think you expect socialists to side with the US military industrial complex.

Wouldn’t be the first time I’m accused of being a Russian plant on this forum, surprisingly.

 

[Rainbow]

The fact that you’re in a socialism thread and unwilling to engage socialists in good faith probably means you have more learning to do if you think you expect socialists to side with the US military industrial complex.

Wouldn’t be the first time I’m accused of being a Russian plant on this forum, surprisingly.

Ironically i read a lot and wrote my master thesis about Paulo Freire. Great man with great views. But not even he would call Putin a marxist on any level. Putin is even a more national- feudalist in the worst way possible.

And that' s the problem of the hardcore leftists. They are blinded of there believes. You steadily don' t adress russias aggression and try to derail the topic to the US. That's exactly what Putin want you to do. Condemn the us imperialism and justify russian imperialism.

Know that from the german leftists. On the one hand they demand social justice ( which i even agree) just to then close both eyes on russias crimes and dictatorship. This just doesn't fit.

 

[Branduil]

Can we not do the bullshit where anyone who disagrees with the neocon line on Russia and Ukraine is a Russian plant?

 

[Rainbow]

Can we not do the bullshit where anyone who disagrees with the neocon line on Russia and Ukraine is a Russian plant?

It doesn't matter if you are one of the paid cyber warrios of moscow that repeatedly spams the news commentary sections or if you do it in your own believes.

Repeating russian propaganda is repeating russian propaganda. That moscow trys to divide democratic countrys by fund right- wing partys and supporting conspiracy theories is common knowledge. He also tries to hybrid wars us.

We will see what happens next week. I will remind you on your words. If Putin does not attack. Even better, i will be happy. But i doubt his sanity on this point. Nothing rational on him anymore besides his greed for power.

Has nothing to do with socialism vs capitalism anyway.

 

[Mekanos]

Ironically i read a lot and wrote my master thesis about Paulo Freire. Great man with great views. But not even he would call Putin a marxist on any level. Putin is even a more national- feudalist in the worst way possible.

And that' s the problem of the hardcore leftists. They are blinded of there believes. You steadily don' t adress russias aggression and try to derail the topic to the US. That's exactly what Putin want you to do. Condemn the us imperialism and justify russian imperialism.

Know that from the german leftists. On the one hand they demand social justice ( which i even agree) just to then close both eyes on russias crimes and dictatorship. This just doesn't fit.

Who the hell called Putin a Marxist? That has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

Russian aggression can't be talked about without the context of the US drumming up a war at every opportunity.



Yeah, these are the people I trust with this news story. We should be very concerned about fake Russian news when stuff like this is the norm in western reporting, for sure. I could mention that there people in Ukraine I personally know that I don't want to be killed in a war (who also don't want US military presence there), but then that would mean engaging in the material reality of the situation instead of calling anyone you disagree with a Russian troll, wouldn't it?

You can just be a liberal and disagree with socialists, it doesn't have to be a deep state conspiracy to destroy democracy.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

Funnily enough, you can identify as a socialist, advocate for socialist ideals, be critical of your own country, and also recognize that Putin is a warmonger who is looking for any excuse to continue the invasion of Ukraine he already began years ago.

You can also believe that the Ukrainian people deserve solidarity, and that not everything needs to be viewed through the lense of Evil Western Imperialism.

 

[Mekanos]

You could but when even the DSA says no to war in Ukraine it's probably good to consider why that might be:



On the subject of Code Pink, here's a great quote from Vijay Prashad, Indian Marxist: "Code Pink said in 2001, don't go to war in Afghanistan. The only elected official to join Code Pink was Barbara Lee. Every other member of the United States Congress enthusiastically said, let's go ahead and bomb that shitty country." Seems like we're doomed to repeat history here.

 

[Phosphorescent Skeleton]

 

[Branduil]

Barbara Lee is the only person in congress who has been on the right side of every American war in this century. I would listen to her ahead of anyone else in the US government (not that that's saying too much).

 

[JazzPotatoes]

What are your guys actual expectations of the situation here?

Biden has ruled out sending US troops: the USA is not going to get into a war on Ukraine's behalf. That DSA tweet is weeks out of date.

Is the problem now that Biden (and others) are threatening sanctions instead?

 

[Fiye]

What are your guys actual expectations of the situation here?

Biden has ruled out sending US troops: the USA is not going to get into a war on Ukraine's behalf. That DSA tweet is weeks out of date.

Is the problem now that Biden (and others) are threatening sanctions instead?

I expect a lot of saber rattling and build up of arms across the board but no actual action.

I do have an issue with Biden (+ others) utilizing sanctions since those hurt the populace but my overall feeling about this situation has been everything is out of my control and my relentless screaming won't change shit.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

I expect a lot of saber rattling and build up of arms across the board but no actual action.

I do have an issue with Biden (+ others) utilizing sanctions since those hurt the populace but my overall feeling about this situation has been everything is out of my control and my relentless screaming won't change shit.

Russia already started invading Ukraine years ago. They sectioned off Crimea, they invaded Georgia, there is no reason to think they won't follow through on trying to invade the rest of Ukraine.

Sanctions are the most important and potent way out holding a country accountable without actual conflict. Russia is way overdue sanctions as it stands anyway, but if they decide to invade Ukraine, economic sanctions are the very least they should expect on response

EDIT

So not having heard of the DSA International Committee before, I decided to read up on them.

It turns out it's another organisation that blames western imperialism/the US for aggravating Russia and China, and has not a word to say about or in solidarity with the Uyghur Muslims in China, Taiwan, Georgia, Crimea , or any of the human rights abuses committed by those two superpowers.

It also sent delegates to Venezuela in support of the ruling administration there and supports the Venezuelan government, despite the numerous claims of human rights abuses and corruption.

Miss me with their takes claiming this is NATO aggression causing the current situation

 

[gogosox82]

Russia already started invading Ukraine years ago. They sectioned off Crimea, they invaded Georgia, there is no reason to think they won't follow through on trying to invade the rest of Ukraine.

Sanctions are the most important and potent way out holding a country accountable without actual conflict. Russia is way overdue sanctions as it stands anyway, but if they decide to invade Ukraine, economic sanctions are the very least they should expect on response

Sanctions aren't effective unless completely straving a population is what you want to have happen. Also, Russia has sanctions on it already.

 

[Brock Reiher]

What are your guys actual expectations of the situation here?

Biden has ruled out sending US troops: the USA is not going to get into a war on Ukraine's behalf. That DSA tweet is weeks out of date.

Is the problem now that Biden (and others) are threatening sanctions instead?

I think nothing will happen and it will mostly continue to distract from deteriorating US conditions at home

You are repeating russian war propaganda through and through. They justifiing war and potential mass murdering. Congratulations.

Sure those ready for attack army on the ukrainian border is just there for holiday like in crimea...

That's an interesting perspective. So you believe that the people saying there shouldn't be a war are justifying war?

 

[JazzPotatoes]

Sanctions aren't effective unless completely straving a population is what you want to have happen. Also, Russia has sanctions on it already.

Right now, if nothing is done, Russia is going to invade Ukraine.

If the choice is between a Russian population who have to live with economic sanctions, or a murdered Ukrainian population losing their country, I think it's clear what the less-bad option is.

Sanctions are not perfect, but they will mean if Russia does invade, it will pay a high cost for all the Ukranian citizens they kill as part of their conquest.

Putin already knows what the stakes are: he can make the decision on whether he thinks sanctions on his country are worth invading Ukraine

 

[Brock Reiher]

Right now, if nothing is done, Russia is going to invade Ukraine.

Why do you say this?

 

[gogosox82]

Right now, if nothing is done, Russia is going to invade Ukraine.

If the choice is between a Russian population who have to live with economic sanctions, or a murdered Ukrainian population losing their country, I think it's clear what the less-bad option is.

Sanctions are not perfect, but they will mean if Russia does invade, it will pay a high cost for all the Ukranian citizens they kill as part of their conquest.

Putin already knows what the stakes are: he can make the decision on whether he thinks sanctions on his country are worth invading Ukraine

Why do you think they are going to invade? I think this is mostly just posturing from Russia. Only way there is a conflict is if US/NATO gets involved (which they shouldnt). And again, Russia already has been sanctioned.

 

[Rainbow]

Why they invade? The mistake is to think this have something to do with sanity or rationality.

Having there army ready like this costs millions per day. They daily transport heavy war machines from their backlands to the ukrainian border. There weapons already aim towards kiev. That's far from a thrill or manover.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

Why do you say this?

1) Russia already invaded Ukraine and sectioned off Crimea.
2) They invaded Georgia in 2008
3) They have amassed 150,000 troops shopping the border and in Belarus, and are evacuating diplomatic staff out
4) Western intelligence is consistent that an invasion is being prepared for next week

 

[Brock Reiher]

I would say that what the US is doing, which includes sending weapons across the globe and a huge media push for war, is more aggressive saber rattling than assembling your troops in your own country. US has been saying an invasion is imminent for a month and a half now, I don't believe them.

But even if an invasion is coming, I see no way in which the US being involved makes things better and not worse.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

I would say that what the US is doing, which includes sending weapons across the globe and a huge media push for war, is more aggressive saber rattling than assembling your troops in your own country. US has been saying an invasion is imminent for a month and a half now, I don't believe them.

But even if an invasion is coming, I see no way in which the US being involved makes things better and not worse.

Russian troops are also assembling in Belarus.

I'm curious: what would it take for you to actually make a statement condemning Russia's actions?

 

[Brock Reiher]

Russian troops are also assembling in Belarus.

I'm curious: what would it take for you to actually make a statement condemning Russia's actions?

Why does it matter what I do? I don't tend to put out press releases on anything. The US becoming involved in the conflict can only make things worse, and potentially dramatically worse. All I can do is refuse to participate in the pro-war propaganda.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

Why does it matter what I do? I don't tend to put out press releases on anything. The US becoming involved in the conflict can only make things worse, and potentially dramatically worse. All I can do is refuse to participate in the pro-war propaganda.

I'm not asking for a press release. All I'm asking is if you will make a post acknowledging that the current situation goes beyond pro-war propaganda (as both the US and NATO have said they will not get involved at this stage) and that Russia are instigating and escalating the situation.

 

[Brock Reiher]

I'm not asking for a press release. All I'm asking is if you will make a post acknowledging that the current situation goes beyond pro-war propaganda (as both the US and NATO have said they will not get involved at this stage) and that Russia are instigating and escalating the situation.

US is already heavily involved and is pushing for war. They are a bigger driving force than Ukraine at this point.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

US is already heavily involved and is pushing for war. They are a bigger driving force than Ukraine at this point.

See, you say stuff like this, and it's just factually wrong.

The US has withdrawn their troops. Biden has confirmed he will not send troops to defend Ukraine. Nato has confirmed the same. Even troops that were sent there to provide training to Ukranians have been withdrawn. If/when Russia invades, there will be no American or Nato armed forces there to respond.

This is all on Russia - Putin is amassing troops, Putin already lead an invasion into Ukraine and annexed Crimea, Putin has ordered cyber attacks within Ukraine.

What do you think it says that even after multiple attempts, you will not just say "Yeah, Putin is the bad guy in this situation" and still keep trying to Whatabout this back to the US, even though Biden is taking the opposite actions of what you claim? Why can you not just say if an invasion happens, then Russia is at fault, and Putin should be accountable?

 

[Brock Reiher]

See, you say stuff like this, and it's just factually wrong.

The US has withdrawn their troops. Biden has confirmed he will not send troops to defend Ukraine. Nato has confirmed the same. Even troops that were sent there to provide training to Ukranians have been withdrawn. If/when Russia invades, there will be no American or Nato armed forces there to respond.

This is all on Russia - Putin is amassing troops, Putin already lead an invasion into Ukraine and annexed Crimea, Putin has ordered cyber attacks within Ukraine.

What do you think it says that even after multiple attempts, you will not just say "Yeah, Putin is the bad guy in this situation" and still keep trying to Whatabout this back to the US, even though Biden is taking the opposite actions of what you claim? Why can you not just say if an invasion happens, then Russia is at fault, and Putin should be accountable?

For right now there is not an invasion, and all I see is the US war machine trying to drum up support for a war. If you want to look to Putin's past, you cannot then completely ignore the US's. We have no reason to take Biden at his word based on his record since coming into office alone.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

For right now there is not an invasion, and all I see is the US war machine trying to drum up support for a war.

Where? Where do you see this? Can you provide any sources on this?

If you want to look to Putin's past, you cannot then completely ignore the US's. We have no reason to take Biden at his word based on his record since coming into office alone.

I am looking at Putin's past specifically in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe, IE - the exact same are that is under threat now by the same Russian administration. He invaded Ukraine and Georgia previously. He is the one instigating events now.

 

[Brock Reiher]

Where? Where do you see this? Can you provide any sources on this?

I am looking at Putin's past specifically in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe, IE - the exact same are that is under threat now by the same Russian administration. He invaded Ukraine and Georgia previously. He is the one instigating events now.

We are only talking about this because of a large media campaign. If you are looking to Putin's past there, I ask you also look at the US's past of intervention, the motivations of that intervention, and how that intervention always makes things worse.

To your point, if Putin is going to invade despite sanctions already existing, then sanctions already don't work.

 

[Ostia]

Funnily enough, you can identify as a socialist, advocate for socialist ideals, be critical of your own country, and also recognize that Putin is a warmonger who is looking for any excuse to continue the invasion of Ukraine he already began years ago.

You can also believe that the Ukrainian people deserve solidarity, and that not everything needs to be viewed through the lense of Evil Western Imperialism.

All you’ve proposed are solutions that involve western imperialism though

 

[JazzPotatoes]

We are only talking about this because of a large media campaign.

The media are reporting on the largest massing of military units around a European country since WW2. It's not a campaign, it's the media reporting on international news, as they're meant to.

If you are looking to Putin's past there, I ask you also look at the US's past of intervention, the motivations of that intervention, and how that intervention always makes things worse.

Again, untrue.

The West intervened in Kosovo and in Sierra Leone, and both were successful humanitarian interventions. The West also failed to intervene in Rwanda, and that has been a stain on the international community ever since.

All you’ve proposed are solutions that involve western imperialism though

The issue is Russian imperialism.

Putin is literally trying to take back former Soviet territories by force to rebuild, as he sees it, the Russian empire.

It is not imperialism to take a military or economic stand against imperialism. Especially as the current proposed measures, economic sanctions, revolve around doing less trade with Russia, not more.

 

[Oheao]

Do we got some capitalists posting in here?

 

[Mekanos]

I'm sure sanctions will be as bountiful as they have been on Cuba and Iran.

 

[Brock Reiher]

The West intervened in Kosovo and in Sierra Leone, and both were successful humanitarian interventions. The West also failed to intervene in Rwanda, and that has been a stain on the international community ever since

This is the fundamental disagreement then. I don't believe in US intervention.

But again if the threat is real, then sanctions aren't enough. What would more sanctions do except hurt innocent people?

 

[Ostia]

The media are reporting on the largest massing of military units around a European country since WW2. It's not a campaign, it's the media reporting on international news, as they're meant to.


Again, untrue.

The West intervened in Kosovo and in Sierra Leone, and both were successful humanitarian interventions. The West also failed to intervene in Rwanda, and that has been a stain on the international community ever since.


The issue is Russian imperialism.

Putin is literally trying to take back former Soviet territories by force to rebuild, as he sees it, the Russian empire.

It is not imperialism to take a military or economic stand against imperialism. Especially as the current proposed measures, economic sanctions, revolve around doing less trade with Russia, not more.

Sanctions are a tool of western imperialism. To inflict them upon a nation due to a nation’s own imperial interests is furthering imperialism. This is not a hard concept to grasp.
Here’s your ‘successful humanitarian intervention’ in Kosovo btw:
“After the war, a list was compiled which documented that over 13,500 people were killed or went missing during the two year conflict.[66] The Yugoslav and Serb forces caused the displacement of between 1.2 million[67] to 1.45 million Kosovo Albanians.[68]After the war, around 200,000 Serbs, Romani, and other non-Albanians fled Kosovo and many of the remaining civilians were victims of abuse.[69][70][71]

The NATO bombing campaign has remained controversial.[72] It did not gain the approval of the UN Security Council and it caused at least 488 Yugoslav civilian deaths,[73] including substantial numbers of Kosovar refugees.[74][75][76]”

 

[JazzPotatoes]

Do we got some capitalists posting in here?

Actually, no.

I've been a paid up union member for years.

I've spent years attending rallies, union events and protests.

I've voted for left-wing and socialist candidates and parties in every election I have been eligible to vote in.

I've been hauled up in front of managers for disruptive behaviour, and got back at them by getting union reps to push for implementation of the same workplace protections they initially wanted to avoid.

The difference between us is that I'm socialist while recognising the need for international solidarity, whereas too many posters here seem to think socialism begins and ends with "America bad". If you can't express solidarity with comrades in Ukraine and bring yourself to condemn the corrupt, far-right, anti-worker, wealth hording capitalist empire building that Putin represents, then the Capitalist is not me. It's you.

 

[Ostia]

Actually, no.

I've been a paid up union member for years.

I've spent years attending rallies, union events and protests.

I've voted for left-wing and socialist candidates and parties in every election I have been eligible to vote in.

I've been hauled up in front of managers for disruptive behaviour, and got back at them by getting union reps to push for implementation of the same workplace protections they initially wanted to avoid.

The difference between us is that I'm socialist while recognising the need for international solidarity, whereas too many posters here seem to think socialism begins and ends with "America bad". If you can't express solidarity with comrades in Ukraine and bring yourself to condemn the corrupt, far-right, anti-worker, wealth hording capitalist empire building that Putin represents, then the Capitalist is not me. It's you.

You’re describing a potential conflict spurred by the equally far-right, anti-worker, wealth hoarding capitalist empire of the US in which Ukraine will be the sacrificial pawn between said empire and its goals for conflict with Russia. There is nothing pro-worker about that stance, sorry. Lenin had a term for this, it’s called “social chauvinism”.

Anti-war organizing has been at the heart of labor action for centuries. It’s been the motivating force behind so many left wing movements. It’s an incredibly hubristic assumption on your part that you’ve finally stumbled onto a “just war” at the behest of the US intelligence services and NatSec blob.

 

[Oheao]

Actually, no.

I've been a paid up union member for years.

I've spent years attending rallies, union events and protests.

I've voted for left-wing and socialist candidates and parties in every election I have been eligible to vote in.

I've been hauled up in front of managers for disruptive behaviour, and got back at them by getting union reps to push for implementation of the same workplace protections they initially wanted to avoid.

The difference between us is that I'm socialist while recognising the need for international solidarity, whereas too many posters here seem to think socialism begins and ends with "America bad". If you can't express solidarity with comrades in Ukraine and bring yourself to condemn the corrupt, far-right, anti-worker, wealth hording capitalist empire building that Putin represents, then the Capitalist is not me. It's you.

Putin and the Russian regime suck.

 

[Brock Reiher]

Actually, no.

I've been a paid up union member for years.

I've spent years attending rallies, union events and protests.

I've voted for left-wing and socialist candidates and parties in every election I have been eligible to vote in.

I've been hauled up in front of managers for disruptive behaviour, and got back at them by getting union reps to push for implementation of the same workplace protections they initially wanted to avoid.

The difference between us is that I'm socialist while recognising the need for international solidarity, whereas too many posters here seem to think socialism begins and ends with "America bad". If you can't express solidarity with comrades in Ukraine and bring yourself to condemn the corrupt, far-right, anti-worker, wealth hording capitalist empire building that Putin represents, then the Capitalist is not me. It's you.

Going to those rallies and events seems like wasted time if these are still your beliefs after all that.

But regardless of your credentials I once again ask-- if sanctions didn't work before, why would they work now?

 

[JazzPotatoes]

After the war, a list was compiled which documented that over 13,500 people were killed or went missing

You're aware this was due to the ongoing conflict before the NATO intervention, yes? There was an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign which resulted in 8-9000 civilians being murdered by Yugoslav forces. The NATO bombings killed 4-500 civilians, but they also helped end the conflict, which again, just to reiterate, was an ethnic cleansing campaign.

Oh, and Milosovich's forces also committed mass rapes as well.

You've just gone onto Wikepedia and copy pasted the top of the article, with no acknowledgement of the actual conflict or what was going on there.

 

[Brock Reiher]

You're aware this was due to the ongoing conflict before the NATO intervention, yes? There was an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign which resulted in 8-9000 civilians being murdered by Yugoslav forces. The NATO bombings killed 4-500 civilians, but they also helped end the conflict, which again, just to reiterate, was an ethnic cleansing campaign.

Oh, and Milosovich's forces also committed mass rapes as well.

You've just gone onto Wikepedia and copy pasted the top of the article, with no acknowledgement of the actual conflict or what was going on there.

Please answer my question

 

[Ostia]

You're aware this was due to the ongoing conflict before the NATO intervention, yes? There was an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign which resulted in 8-9000 civilians being murdered by Yugoslav forces. The NATO bombings killed 4-500 civilians, but they also helped end the conflict, which again, just to reiterate, was an ethnic cleansing campaign.

Oh, and Milosovich's forces also committed mass rapes as well.

You've just gone onto Wikepedia and copy pasted the top of the article, with no acknowledgement of the actual conflict or what was going on there.

I’m aware that those sections are about Milosovec, yea. I was stating the full cost of the war, including but not limited to the nearly 500 civilians killed by Nato bombings.

You’d be better served in this discussion by not being so up your own arse that you think I didn’t read the information I just posted so you can have some sort of cheap ‘gotcha’, lmao.

 

[gogosox82]

You're aware this was due to the ongoing conflict before the NATO intervention, yes? There was an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign which resulted in 8-9000 civilians being murdered by Yugoslav forces. The NATO bombings killed 4-500 civilians, but they also helped end the conflict, which again, just to reiterate, was an ethnic cleansing campaign.

Oh, and Milosovich's forces also committed mass rapes as well.

You've just gone onto Wikepedia and copy pasted the top of the article, with no acknowledgement of the actual conflict or what was going on there.

So your just gonna gloss over the fact that NATO killed 4-500 hundred civilians? And you didn't talk about the fact that it refugeed hundreds if not thousands of people. Thats totally fine with you?

 

[Deleted member 2349]

just wanna poke my head in and say as a leftist that hasn’t been following the Ukraine situation very closely I am finding this conversation edifying

 

[OTBWY]

As a leftist socialist living in Europe I am deeply troubled by the US but even moreso troubled by Russia as the regime has been funding fascist parties in Europe for years. I think it is possible to both condemn US imperialism and Russian imperialism. And also, be in support of the Ukranian people that just want to get on with their lives in peace.

 

[Mekanos]

 

[Brock Reiher]

glad it worked out

 

[Terrell]

As a leftist socialist living in Europe I am deeply troubled by the US but even moreso troubled by Russia as the regime has been funding fascist parties in Europe for years. I think it is possible to both condemn US imperialism and Russian imperialism. And also, be in support of the Ukranian people that just want to get on with their lives in peace.

Thank you, was hoping someone would get around to this point when reading through the last bit of discourse. We don't always have to pick a "right" between two "wrongs", and trying to do so is one of the biggest pitfalls of socialist discussions online. It's especially unproductive when demanding to pick the lesser of two evils among two notably capitalist powers treating another nation as nothing but leverage.

 

[Brock Reiher]

Thank you, was hoping someone would get around to this point when reading through the last bit of discourse. We don't always have to pick a "right" between two "wrongs", and trying to do so is one of the biggest pitfalls of socialist discussions online. It's especially unproductive when demanding to pick the lesser of two evils among two notably capitalist powers treating another nation as nothing but leverage.

I think most of the people here aren't picking a side, but just trying to push back against US propaganda. Luckily it sounds like Ukrainian voices who don't want a war are being heard.

 

[Phosphorescent Skeleton]

It remains gross how often I see people cheer on corporate consolidation around here.