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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Mer.Saloon said:
They are not in the same ballpark of creepiness.

The humor in Hooktail's joke is just that it's aesthetically disgusting, the other is that the disgusting creeps are being given the smack.


I feel the discussion has been genuine here, so IDK what TTYD fans you're talking about unless you feel like actually specifying your targets. Even if the changes are ultimately not a big deal it's an interesting talking point to at least discuss about the subject of localization and intent behind the script.

Yeah kids would notice the harsh script, but whether they would feel offended by it like a teen or adult is up to debate. Whatever impact they feel is something I imagine they reflect on in many years. (And even then, only the nerdiest of the nerds who grow up will care about the differences between these versions.)
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I think there has been some good discussion here but there has been a little bit of reactive pearl clutching here that I think is a little unfortunate. TTYD fans have waited decades for the game to get any kind of recognition at all, and they have it! At the same time they're also being extremely particular in a way that feels beyond melodramatic. Far be it for me to police the way that people feel about a remake of a beloved game, but it is at least a little frustrating to see so much emphasis on "MY SCRIPT" and "MY OST" and even "MY FRAME RATE" when the first two offer only extremely minor changes and the last one is ultimately not that impactful in a turn-based RPG. I would love to see the excitement I saw from TTYD fans when this was announced instead of the weird cynicism that has seemingly defined them for the past ten years.
 
Kaizo said:
Well, on the topic of sexual assault, Mario clearly shakes his head to say “no” to Flurrie before she makes out with him against his will. This is still in the remake. I’d argue against “vast majority” reading Hooktail’s thing innocently; are not many, many gamers “really online?” I’ve seen it brought up by people I know irl who’ve played it as well.
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fake gamer confession: I consider this game one of my favourites but I've never actually beaten it.

The badge system is one of the big reasons I like it so much, it's so much fun to mix and match
 
ngpdrew said:
I think there has been some good discussion here but there has been a little bit of reactive pearl clutching here that I think is a little unfortunate. TTYD fans have waited decades for the game to get any kind of recognition at all, and they have it! At the same time they're also being extremely particular in a way that feels beyond melodramatic. Far be it for me to police the way that people feel about a remake of a beloved game, but it is at least a little frustrating to see so much emphasis on "MY SCRIPT" and "MY OST" and even "MY FRAME RATE" when the first two offer only extremely minor changes and the last one is ultimately not that impactful in a turn-based RPG. I would love to see the excitement I saw from TTYD fans when this was announced instead of the weird cynicism that has seemingly defined them for the past ten years.
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Again, I think it's a bit dismissive to say "it's a turn-based RPG, frame rate isn't important" when there are central game mechanics tied to frame-perfect inputs. This could lead to the game feel being quite different, but it's hard to say until it's in my hands myself.

I'm excited about the remake! I'll be taking time off work to play it! But I think people are perfectly entitled to be disappointed in that aspect.
 
Hailinel said:
Not to pick on you, but this kind of highlights how quick people are to blame NOA/Treehouse like some boogeyman that either acts with complete cluelessness or some malevolent agenda when they're just...localizing games in direct partnership with the developers.
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To be honest it's a bed NOA/Treehouse really made for themselves when it comes to JRPGs. There's of course the SNES period where Nintendo of America was hyper-aggressive on censorship to avoid a Christian Panic. There's the whole period in the mid-2000s where NOA said "we're not gonna localize JRPGs because we don't think audiences will like them" and there's just... the basic fact that we have a very direct Nintendo sister translation team to compare them with in the form of Nintendo of Europe who are on the whole way better about this sort of thing. (AKA "this is why you have Xenoblade".)

They also have caught repeated flak for editing minor dialogue into internet memes in various 3DS games. I'm personally not too hung up over that, but it's something other translation companies generally set a policy to avoid and Treehouse kept doing it about a decade after it fell out of favor.

Treehouse gets a side eye in translation quality for reasons that are largely earned - they're not the worst out there (that would be NISA), but they definitely shine a lot more in games that aim for younger audiences and haven't exactly shaken their bad reputation. I think they'll do fine with TTYD, it's a game that's in their ballpark more than a more "serious" title. I don't think changing some minor NPC dialogue in TTYD here is the end of the world, considering this was a localization problem to begin with.

Hailinel said:
Three Houses was localized by Treehouse, but people tend to not give them credit for the work they did on it. I've even seen people shit on Treehouse's work on Three Houses to puff up 8-4's work on Three Hopes when...Three Hopes's localization is based off of what Treehouse did.
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Yeah Three Houses was a pretty decent localization I'd say. I enjoyed it.
 
Razgriz said:
To be honest it's a bed NOA/Treehouse really made for themselves when it comes to JRPGs. There's of course the SNES period where Nintendo of America was hyper-aggressive on censorship to avoid a Christian Panic. There's the whole period in the mid-2000s where NOA said "we're not gonna localize JRPGs because we don't think audiences will like them" and there's just... the basic fact that we have a very direct Nintendo sister translation team to compare them with in the form of Nintendo of Europe who are on the whole way better about this sort of thing. (AKA "this is why you have Xenoblade".)

They also have caught repeated flak for editing minor dialogue into internet memes in various 3DS games. I'm personally not too hung up over that, but it's something other translation companies generally set a policy to avoid and Treehouse kept doing it about a decade after it fell out of favor.

Treehouse gets a side eye in translation quality for reasons that are largely earned - they're not the worst out there (that would be NISA), but they definitely shine a lot more in games that aim for younger audiences and haven't exactly shaken their bad reputation. I think they'll do fine with TTYD, it's a game that's in their ballpark more than a more "serious" title. I don't think changing some minor NPC dialogue in TTYD here is the end of the world, considering this was a localization problem to begin with.


Yeah Three Houses was a pretty decent localization I'd say. I enjoyed it.
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I mean, I wasn't a fan of the doge meme line in Triforce Heroes, either, but there's a difference in an otherwise dry bit of incidental dialogue being given a little kick in English versus that time NISA renamed an Atelier character Esty Dee.
 
ngpdrew said:
I think there has been some good discussion here but there has been a little bit of reactive pearl clutching here that I think is a little unfortunate. TTYD fans have waited decades for the game to get any kind of recognition at all, and they have it! At the same time they're also being extremely particular in a way that feels beyond melodramatic. Far be it for me to police the way that people feel about a remake of a beloved game, but it is at least a little frustrating to see so much emphasis on "MY SCRIPT" and "MY OST" and even "MY FRAME RATE" when the first two offer only extremely minor changes and the last one is ultimately not that impactful in a turn-based RPG. I would love to see the excitement I saw from TTYD fans when this was announced instead of the weird cynicism that has seemingly defined them for the past ten years.
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They're minor, but they take up post space just because people will disagree on the points.

Negative or even just contentious points take up more air/text space than positive ones.

The game looks gorgeous. It's a chance for kids to get a chance to play one of the RPG classics retuned in a way to improve it, etc. But well, only so many ways to say that before you repeat things. Likely then this thread would be dead after about a week of gushing over new stuff.
 
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Mekanos said:
Again, I think it's a bit dismissive to say "it's a turn-based RPG, frame rate isn't important" when there are central game mechanics tied to frame-perfect inputs. This could lead to the game feel being quite different, but it's hard to say until it's in my hands myself.

I'm excited about the remake! I'll be taking time off work to play it! But I think people are perfectly entitled to be disappointed in that aspect.
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Well, that part I can give some leeway. It certainly will have some impact on the game. Buuut...having played plenty of turn-based RPGs with timed hits that also run at 30 FPS, I do think it will be fine.

I think disappointment is alright. There's just a little bit of a reactionary element at play here with some of the other changes that I think are not constructive to a reasonable conversation.
 
Hailinel said:
I mean, I wasn't a fan of the doge meme line in Triforce Heroes, either, but there's a difference in an otherwise dry bit of incidental dialogue being given a little kick in English versus that time NISA renamed an Atelier character Esty Dee.
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Like I said, they're not the worst out there (...that was meant as a compliment, I guess it may have landed differently) and they're definitely better for certain age ranges. As for NISA; The Danganronpa localizations are particularly infamous as well for reasons that are way too off-topic to discuss here (but are worth a read - that one is about V3, but I can point to numerous errors in DR1 as well).
 
jirou said:
fake gamer confession: I consider this game one of my favourites but I've never actually beaten it.

The badge system is one of the big reasons I like it so much, it's so much fun to mix and match
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I have finished almost every Paper Mario but this one, and I'd still say this is my favorite! Excited to finish the fight way too many years later.
 
I'm really looking forward to getting into this one.

For all my nitpicking on script changes. I'm ridiculously hyped to experience again and to know this Gamecube classic is accessible more than ever.
 
I read four previews and they all say similar things of Nintendo being secretive on potentially some sort of additional content, any ideas what that could be? Regardless if there is or not I’m pretty excited to experience it for the first time.
 
MaskedRider said:
I read four previews and they all say similar things of Nintendo being secretive on potentially some sort of additional content, any ideas what that could be? Regardless if there is or not I’m pretty excited to experience it for the first time.
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Superbosses or a harder difficulty would be my guess. Even compared to PM64 (which itself wasn't that difficult), TTYD is remarkably easy outside of the final boss who is a notorious difficulty spike.

They added similar stuff to the SMRPG remake, although that one was handled by a different studio.
 
I will say I love that Intelligent Systems gave the Star Pieces and Shine Sprites more value by tying them to the unlocking of art and sound galleries.
 
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Razgriz said:
Superbosses or a harder difficulty would be my guess. Even compared to PM64 (which itself wasn't that difficult), TTYD is remarkably easy outside of the final boss who is a notorious difficulty spike.

They added similar stuff to the SMRPG remake, although that one was handled by a different studio.
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I don't know if we should expect a Hard mode. (They didn't add one to SMRPG, but they did make an Easy difficulty.) I'd expect a rebalanced Normal and an Easy/Beginner difficulty, maybe.
 
I don't think TTYD will get a harder difficulty, but I am glad Nintendo aren't sanding down the regular difficulty. Probably thinking that the badges add enough flexibility to the game's difficulty/pace that you didn't have in SMRPG.

Though I think Superbosses are on the table.
 
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VintoWin said:
Yup even more fun to 100% now.
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Especially in the case of the Star Pieces since outside of doing business with a certain character(won't spoil their name or what specifically you do with the Star Pieces for those that haven't played the game before), they didn't have a strong value in the original TTYD. Shine Sprites did tho concerning your partners.
 
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Giancarlo said:
Abebe Tinari, director of Bayonetta Origins, has explaned why Inteligent Systems choose 30fps for the Paper Mario the Thousand Years Door remake, istead of the 60fps the original 2004 run



gonintendo.com

Bayonetta Origins dev weighs in on the Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door frame rate controversy

Interesting dev insights
gonintendo.com gonintendo.com
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Yes, this was already brought up in the thread. None of this is really a surprise to me either. In fact, I would argue some of what I said in the post you quoted is very closely in line with what Abebe outlined, particularly the fact that going with effects the Switch couldn't run at 60 fps was an artistic choice. The devs decided that it wasn't worth toning down the effects to improve the framerate, and thus far I've been pretty careful to avoid directly disagreeing with that. After all, I don't know what the game would've looked like if they made 60 fps a priority; it's very possible I'd have agreed with that decision if I was privy to that information.

I'm not among those mad that the game is 30 fps; as I've stated a few times now, I just wish it could've been 60.
 
Hailinel said:
I don't know if we should expect a Hard mode. (They didn't add one to SMRPG, but they did make an Easy difficulty.) I'd expect a rebalanced Normal and an Easy/Beginner difficulty, maybe.
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Agreed. Nintendo is allergic to hard modes for these type of releases. Zelda remakes get Master Modes but that's it unfortunately.

It's a bit of a shame, there's a ton of people buying these titles who have already played them and want more out of them
 
EvilChameleon said:
When we inevitably get a remake of Super Paper Mario, I look forward to seeing if they keep in the "I go on message boards to complain about games I've never played" line.
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SPM feels very... evitable to me. It's in a weird spot of having sold very well with a decent chunk of pretty dedicated fans, yet no one's ever really made much noise about getting a remaster. It's also only three years older than TTYD, so it's not really too recent for people to be asking for it.

Mer.Saloon said:
As for the "come play" the fact these guys attack you make it pretty clear their intentions are anything but friendly flirting regardless of if they removed that line or not. But well that is still something you understand as wrong.
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If it was just "come play", Goombella rejects them, and they sulk away, I could've understood keeping it a little better. But physically attacking her after an invitation with a very sexual undertone instead leaves me to ponder their intentions had they won the fight, and... every believable option is extraordinarily icky and not something I'd prefer to think about.

I don't view it as "this is offensive" so much as "this is disgusting". Obviously the catcallers are painted as losers and Rogueport is intentionally sketchy and crime-ridden on purpose, but I think Rougeport's vibe is more played for laughs due to the general absurdity of it as a setting for a Mario game rather than actually trying to skeeve you out or take itself seriously. Pulling that off requires walking a fine line of portraying messed up stuff without actually making people uncomfortable. Everyone's level of tolerance before things cross over into uncomfortable is different, but I think having unapologetically rapey NPCs pushes it too far regardless of how much of a joke the game makes out of said characters.

By contrast, Dupree's just a women-obsessed weirdo who genuinely believes himself to be charming, and he also happens to understand the concept of consent and the word "no". That's a lot more palatable to keep around and a lot easier to find funny. The problem with the Goombas is that the dialogue has to end in them picking a fight, which makes it basically impossible to keep the catcalling in without the fight feeling like attempted sexual assault.

VintoWin said:
Yeah I think they use airhead all over the place in the original translation.
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Looking through a text dump, just twice.

Regarding Airhead vs. Lunkhead, I rarely hear the first IRL and never hear the second. Lunkhead kinda sounds like a funny word Bowser made up to me as a result, and I was a bit surprised to learn it's not.

There's nothing inherently more funny about the word airhead to me, but maybe that's a regional/age thing. Regardless, I personally have no problems with the change.
 
LuckyNumber69 said:
Bro classic Paper Mario fans are truly a different breed, even when we get a literal remake of TTYD they find ways to complain LOL.

The game's visuals are great, it's only natural that a game titled Paper Mario would look more like paper. This isn't the result of IS making it "too much" like modern PM, but rather the result of a 20 year gap. TTYD HD is simply a much more technically and artistically impressive game than the original was because they've gotten much better at visuals since then. It's only natural that a remake wouldn't look the exact same as the original. That's never how it works.
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I see people being overwhelmingly positive and discussing changes, I'm not sure what's wrong with that.
 
ze_ said:
Oh, the MyNintendoNews preview has some screenshots I haven't seen.

paper_mario_the_thousand_year_door_screenshot_7.jpg

paper_mario_the_thousand_year_door_screenshot_9.jpg

paper_mario_the_thousand_year_door_screenshot_10.jpg

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Man, Boggly Woods and Champion's Room are absurdly striking. I'm too excited to experience this again, and I'm most likely throwing on Double Damage to make the game more difficult minus the final fight
 
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Mer.Saloon said:
I feel the discussion has been genuine here, so IDK what TTYD fans you're talking about unless you feel like actually specifying your targets. Even if the changes are ultimately not a big deal it's an interesting talking point to at least discuss about the subject of localization and intent behind the script.
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Sorry if you took that as a general statement against everyone in this thread : it wasn’t. But it seems to me that on this thread and other social media, some people seem like against change on principle, as if TTYD was some untouchable masterpiece. And not a fan in general of people who drop stuff like « censorship » or « political correctness » for small changes in localization like that (same for TMS, FE: Engage, etc.).

Mer.Saloon said:
Yeah kids would notice the harsh script, but whether they would feel offended by it like a teen or adult is up to debate. Whatever impact they feel is something I imagine they reflect on in many years. (And even then, only the nerdiest of the nerds who grow up will care about the differences between these versions.)
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When I’m talking about « younger audiences », that includes teens like 13 to 15, who absolutely can identify old problematic stuff and oddities of the past.
 
If Nintendo left the dialogue as is nothing would happen I imagine, it's not like TTYD was ever like Conker's Bad Fur Day, there's nothing really controversial in the game. Ultimately, this is Nintendo being modern Nintendo and being careful. Straying on the safe side could mean that the writing is going to be a little more boring.

These things are subjective in the end, I'd personally be super down for a Paper Mario game that's more offensively funny than even the original, it's just funny seeing these Mario characters in these situations. That's what I love about Super Paper Mario.
 
ns156 said:
I feel similar. I get that a lot of people will buy the game regardless, even if they agree with everything I've said: they want Nintendo to keep making games like this and will buy it out of hope that they're voting with their wallets for it.

For me, if they continue with the TOK elements, then I'm not sure if I'd want that. It reminds me of the whole thing with Halo 3 back in the day. 343i kept making Halo games that went farther and farther away from what made 3 good, and Halo just never recaptured its old magic. Infinite was their latest attempt to try to bring old fans back, but it still fell flat. I gave 343i a couple of shots, but no more. It's obvious the series I liked no longer exists.
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Yeah, it's completely vailid. Don't ever feel pressured into supporting a series in hopes the devs give you what you want next time. From experience that almost never works.

For me the framerate downgrade from the original and not enough gameplay or level design improvements makes this a deal breaker. And it's certainly not a minor issue for me at all.

I can understand people who just want to play TTYD again and don’t perhaps want to buy ridiculously expensive copies used on Ebay and I am happy for those people that this remake is an option for them but this just ain’t it for me.

Given the framerate discrepancy between the original and the remake, I would never chose to play the new version over the original, even if i had two copies sitting right next to each other.

The novelty of seeing these areas remade with new visuals has already kind of faded for me, I’ve seen what they look like and they are nice but it’s already not that big of a selling point.
 
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Jersh said:
If it was just "come play", Goombella rejects them, and they sulk away, I could've understood keeping it a little better. But physically attacking her after an invitation with a very sexual undertone instead leaves me to ponder their intentions had they won the fight, and... every believable option is extraordinarily icky and not something I'd prefer to think about.

I don't view it as "this is offensive" so much as "this is disgusting". Obviously the catcallers are painted as losers and Rogueport is intentionally sketchy and crime-ridden on purpose, but I think Rougeport's vibe is more played for laughs due to the general absurdity of it as a setting for a Mario game rather than actually trying to skeeve you out or take itself seriously. Pulling that off requires walking a fine line of portraying messed up stuff without actually making people uncomfortable. Everyone's level of tolerance before things cross over into uncomfortable is different, but I think having unapologetically rapey NPCs pushes it too far regardless of how much of a joke the game makes out of said characters.

By contrast, Dupree's just a women-obsessed weirdo who genuinely believes himself to be charming, and he also happens to understand the concept of consent and the word "no". That's a lot more palatable to keep around and a lot easier to find funny. The problem with the Goombas is that the dialogue has to end in them picking a fight, which makes it basically impossible to keep the catcalling in without the fight feeling like attempted sexual assault.
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I can get behind the distinction between the two instances when you point them out like that. I always felt the vibe was supposed to be skeevy in an ugly way, but I recognize that it does push things that could be uncomfortable for others, dark humor is a fine line thing.

Yeah, got not much else to add to this point, but I do appreciate the genuine engagement on this whole discussion. Made me think more about it than before at least.

Party Sklar said:
Sorry if you took that as a general statement against everyone in this thread : it wasn’t. But it seems to me that on this thread and other social media, some people seem like against change on principle, as if TTYD was some untouchable masterpiece. And not a fan in general of people who drop stuff like « censorship » or « political correctness » for small changes in localization like that (same for TMS, FE: Engage, etc.).
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Painting broad strokes does nothing but add antagonistic air when a topic is happening.

When I’m talking about « younger audiences », that includes teens like 13 to 15, who absolutely can identify old problematic stuff and oddities of the past.
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If they could always do that Webtoons wouldn't be as popular as it is. (There's a cesspit.) Kids pick and choose what they find problematic for a variety of reasons which hopefully they start to recognize better as they get older.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
Paper-Mario-The-Thousand-Year-Door-Gameplay-Nintendo-Switch-Super-fun-Game-Cube-classic-3-11-screens.png


No toads were harmed in the making of this shed. (Unless the body is behind the mattress.)
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And there we go, this is probably the same globally. Therefore, I bet the Japanese script was rewritten which is why we have some changes in the English as well.
 
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Looked around a bit and saw this. Kind of weird they are doing an overhaul of the script but didn't fix this translation issues from the original.

We-ve-Played-Paper-Mario-The-Thousand-Year-Door-on-Switch-Is-It-Any-Good-1-28-screenshot.png


Chestnut King never made any sense.
 
VDenter said:
Looked around a bit and saw this. Kind of weird they are doing an overhaul of the script but didn't fix this translation issues from the original.

We-ve-Played-Paper-Mario-The-Thousand-Year-Door-on-Switch-Is-It-Any-Good-1-28-screenshot.png


Chestnut King never made any sense.
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Care to elaborate? This doesn't explain to anyone why it's an error.
 
VDenter said:
Looked around a bit and saw this. Kind of weird they are doing an overhaul of the script but didn't fix this translation issues from the original.

We-ve-Played-Paper-Mario-The-Thousand-Year-Door-on-Switch-Is-It-Any-Good-1-28-screenshot.png


Chestnut King never made any sense.
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It makes sense if you don't know the context that it's the Goomba king and that the Goomba's are chestnuts, which you'd assume the translators would.
 
Can you just give me the original Japanese text?

Kuribo- is Goomba right. Which I guess is like a cutesy suffix like "child" "kin" "boy" behind "chestnut"

Kuri (chestnut) + bo- (boy/little one)

I have a feeling the Japanese is not "Kuribo- Ou" like you are suggesting. But let's see.

@VDenter
 
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