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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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AngryAlchemist said:
The part where you're acting like it was a revelation to people complaining is what confuses me. I don't see how you drew that conclusion when the point was people criticizing the priorities in the first place. Unless I'm misreading but that's what your comment sounds like when you say "it shouldn't be a revelation yet here we are " and "people have the right to complain but". I'm just not sure how you drew criticizing priorities = not knowing they exist.
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I'm aiming my comment more at the general discourse it has drawn into the thread. I felt like this story was posted as a "see, this is why it's 30 FPS" when I kinda figured we should all know how these things happen. This isn't a new angle but I feel like it was posted as if it was some kind of revelation which makes me sigh a bit. Maybe that's too mean, but it is how I feel about these cyclical discussions around framerate around here.

My comment about people should feel free to disagree is more or less encouraging people to keep saying which way they would've preferred the compromises to go rather than just use this tweet chain as more of a stopping point.

Sorry I communicate like garbage I guess. I hope this clears up my messaging a bit.
 
Hailinel said:
There are script updates here and there, both in English and Japanese. It's not 1:1 dialogue with the original release.
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And they are all pretty minor changes. It's not like they threw out a whole storyline, so I'm not sure why "dialogue changes" would be a reason to not get this game.
 
Hailinel said:
There are script updates here and there, both in English and Japanese. It's not 1:1 dialogue with the original release.
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Oh yeah I've seen some but were they even bad changes? Aren't some even good changes haha. I know there's obvious concern over Vivian but we haven't seen the full change there yet. Hopefully they handle that well.

I'm just trying to understand if I'm missing a genuine issue or it's a purist thing.
 
Hocot8 said:
Oh yeah I've seen some but were they even bad changes? Aren't some even good changes haha. I know there's obvious concern over Vivian but we haven't seen the full change there yet. Hopefully they handle that well.

I'm just trying to understand if I'm missing a genuine issue or it's a purist thing.
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The most “controversial” changes have been the change of “The Shadow Sirens” to “The Three Shadows”, and the Goombas of Rogueport Sewers no longer hitting on Goombella.

Not gonna tell anyone what they should do with their money, but if this was the decision behind someone cancelling their pre-order, then they probably weren’t a big fan of the rest of the game
 
I am so happy I don’t care about 30 vs 60 fps

I totally respect that this makes a difference to some people, but for someone who can barely tell a difference at all, this will make absolutely no difference in my experience.

Hype train full steam ahead
 
ngpdrew said:
There were at least a few people saying the game is a downright downgrade because remake necessarily denotes improved frame rate. I think it's not as common sense as it should be that what gets upgraded in a remaster ultimately has more to do with priorities than incompetence.
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See, I'd say that the former - saying that the game is a downgrade, is just a valid opinion that doesn't necessarily connect to the latter in any meaningful way.
I do agree that if people think it has more to do with incompetence than priorities, then yes the article should be more enlightening.
BotenAnna said:
I'm aiming my comment more at the general discourse it has drawn into the thread. I felt like this story was posted as a "see, this is why it's 30 FPS" when I kinda figured we should all know how these things happen. This isn't a new angle but I feel like it was posted as if it was some kind of revelation which makes me sigh a bit. Maybe that's too mean, but it is how I feel about these cyclical discussions around framerate around here.

My comment about people should feel free to disagree is more or less encouraging people to keep saying which way they would've preferred the compromises to go rather than just use this tweet chain as more of a stopping point.

Sorry I communicate like garbage I guess. I hope this clears up my messaging a bit.
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Nothing you said in your comment is that bad, especially now that I know where you're coming from, so you don't have to apologize. I am just someone who is extremely careful about how people talk about negative view points, especially in an enthusiast forum dedicated to one company. To me, casually following the convos from earlier I don't think there's really much information to go off on that most of the people complaining thought it wasn't a case of priorities. So I basically read your comment as "this really shouldn't have to be a revelation, but sadly i guess to xyz crowd it is...", which sounds very condescending to me and is also a bit of a logical leap and fallacy, so I thought about chiming in. I get the frustration of not wanting to hear about a single talking point though. I mostly just chimed in because the leap felt illogical to me, but I was not offended.

In retrospect I do think I remember reading a comment comparing it to MPR which implies incompetence is the issue .... so you're probably right that some people need to hear it.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
To me, casually following the convos from earlier I don't think there's really much information to go off on that most of the people complaining thought it wasn't a case of priorities. So I basically read your comment as "this really shouldn't have to be a revelation, but sadly i guess to xyz crowd it is...", which sounds very condescending to me and is also a bit of a logical leap and fallacy, so I thought about chiming in.
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If I'm understanding @BotenAnna correctly, the "here we are" in reference to it being a revelation on an enthusiast board was commenting on how the original poster of the tweet thread framed it, saying it should shut down any further discussion on 30 fps vs. 60. The idea that it could shut it down implies that the tweet thread is saying something we didn't already know. BotenAnna's comment was therefore targeted directly at the original poster's framing of the article rather than being a commentary on the thread's input to the debate as a whole, essentially disagreeing that the Twitter thread (while a good read) really solves very much.

Edit: Changed "article" to "tweet thread"
 
Started Bug Fables last night to keep this hype train rolling, started chapter 2 and now that the world is opening up a bit, I'm really enjoying it so far!
 
Lugia667 said:
isn't the dialouge more faithful to the Japanese now? I guess it's nostalgia
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No. They are splicing bits of the old script into the new one. It's really just changes to sensibilities as well as what Nintendo deems suitable for the Mario brand rather than some adherence to the Japanese script, which was never NoA's shitck.

But I don't think it's a big deal either. Times have changed, and mean spirited 2000s humor doesn't really fly with modern Nintendo.

Edit: There's also a general removal of a lot of gendered dialogue. A lot of dialogue referring to gender such as Lord Crumps, "girlie" remarks, and the Thwomp's "ladies and germs" has been removed.
 
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I remember when Skyward Sword HD came out and went from 30 to 60....and people complained the graphics weren't upgraded enough

guess you can't play everyone
 
30 fps is a bummer, clearly they prioritised visuals and it's fine to question that considering the original was 60 fps on much weaker hardware.

For me, it won't negate the other improvements. If they did this with a platformer I'd be much more critical of it. But I feel it'll work out fine for this game.
 
On the subject of dialogue changes, I've found most of them just kinda there. Not improvements, but not giant downgrades, but this is the first dialogue change I thought was funnier than the original.

Bowser used to tell a Hammer Bro: "Do some sit-ups tubby."

Now it's:

"Do some sit-ups, and don't stop until even your hammer has abs."

Keeps the spirit without the punching down and adds some absurdity to the mix. They could have really just left it at "Do some sit-ups" and I'd call that a downgrade. Being a jerk is Bowser's thing, but if you're gonna have him be a jerk, this is a good direction for it.
 
Lugia667 said:
I remember when Skyward Sword HD came out and went from 30 to 60....and people complained the graphics weren't upgraded enough

guess you can't play everyone
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In fairness to me as one of the people who's expressed disappointment in the framerate (though I'm pleased overall with the look of the game), I applauded SS HD for going to 60 fps both before and after release. I think I actually said I hoped to never play a 3D Zelda at 30 fps again after doing two runs of SS HD lol (this was back when there was heavy speculation TotK would release on upgraded hardware...).

Yep, you can't please everyone. Opinions are fun! Though again, I was pleased with SS HD and so far I'm pumped for TTYD.
 
Hailinel said:
I am really not looking forward to bad actors and reactionary YouTubers latching on to the localization discourse.
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Neither am I. I'm not personally a fan of the edge being toned down, but I also know that it was edge and mean and understand how that doesn't fly especially in an E10+ Nintendo game.

Most of these reactionary assholes don't even have that much awareness. Expect a lot of "PAPER MARIO GONE WOKE" clickbait on youtube thumbnails when the game comes out.
 
When we inevitably get a remake of Super Paper Mario, I look forward to seeing if they keep in the "I go on message boards to complain about games I've never played" line.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
Neither am I. I'm not personally a fan of the edge being toned down, but I also know that it was edge and mean and understand how that doesn't fly especially in an E10+ Nintendo game.

Most of these reactionary assholes don't even have that much awareness. Expect a lot of "PAPER MARIO GONE WOKE" clickbait on youtube thumbnails when the game comes out.
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Mean/dark humour can be hilarious tho IMO, if you tone that down you run the risk of it not being funny anymore. TTYD and SPM were really funny and that was part of the fun.
 
Wanting NPCs to be more mean and crude, turns out Paper Mario and Animal Crossing fans have more in common than I thought
 
Lucifer said:
Mean/dark humour can be hilarious tho IMO, if you tone that down you run the risk of it not being funny anymore. TTYD and SPM were really funny and that was part of the fun.
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I think the Bowser line is that nice fine balance. Remove the punching down while still keeping an aggressive joke.

IMO Crump and the Goomba's are the wrong way to go about it. They are obviously being portrayed as in the wrong for their attitudes and you give them a good whoopin'. Now they're a little less edged and the smack down is less charged.

But again, this is super nitpicky nonsense that kids won't care about.
 

Not the best format for comparisons but here’s a video if you, like me, didn’t catch the majority of the changes people are talking about (except for the very obvious instances, like the catcalling scene).

DecoReturns said:
I wonder if they’ll change the “Guess again Nerd” line.
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I think they have a good idea of what the fans consider iconic, memorable moments and will leave those unchanged. In the above video you can see that Crump calls Goombella a nerd, too.
 
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Truno said:
I get being disappointed about the FPS, but if all it took to lean you towards not buying it was a few lines of changed dialogue, then you probably weren’t that interested in the game in the first place
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Please do not try to tell me what my interest is in the game just because I don't agree with you on these kinds of matters. If you're going to instantly start downplaying my concerns as trivial, then we're not going to have a good faith discussion, period. I have the original, I love the game. If the remake doesn't feel like a complete upgrade, then I question spending my money on it. It's that simple. Metriod Prime Remastered was virtually the gold standard in how to do it these days, and that's going to be my baseline comparison.

Lugia667 said:
isn't the dialouge more faithful to the Japanese now? I guess it's nostalgia
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Not entirely. For example, Bowser's 'tubby' line to one of his minions was an add-in during localisation. The original JP just tells him to do pushups. The new localisation adds in the joke. I'd have preferred strict adherence to the JP script if they were going to start modifying these things. That's the purist part of me. The new script and jokes seem overly wordy and trying a bit too hard to be funny, kind of like TOK. I'm not a fan of this lite merging of TTYD to the TOK styling, as I stated before.

The original JP script for the sewer Goombas had them hitting on Goombella as well, so that change is entirely a 'modern sensibilities' one. Which I don't get because it shows Goombella as a strong character who won't take that lightly and beats their asses. That's a good thing, no?

TTYD was a fairly edgy toned game and the dialogue and jokes within the game reflected that, and it was quite 'out there' for a Mario game, which was really part of its charm. From what we've seen so far they're dumbing that down a lot and I dislike the new atmosphere that creates.

I have a big personal problem with the way NoA injects 'modern sensibilities' into their localisations and have done for a while (removal of all traditional marriage roles in the Pikmin 2 treasures was another utterly pointless change for no reason whatsoever), so when I see it, I just get put off.
 
ns156 said:
Please do not try to tell me what my interest is in the game just because I don't agree with you on these kinds of matters. If you're going to instantly start downplaying my concerns as trivial, then we're not going to have a good faith discussion, period. I have the original, I love the game. If the remake doesn't feel like a complete upgrade, then I question spending my money on it. It's that simple. Metriod Prime Remastered was virtually the gold standard in how to do it these days, and that's going to be my baseline comparison.



Not entirely. For example, Bowser's 'tubby' line to one of his minions was an add-in during localisation. The original JP just tells him to do pushups. The new localisation adds in the joke. I'd have preferred strict adherence to the JP script if they were going to start modifying these things. That's the purist part of me.

The original JP script for the sewer Goombas had them hitting on Goombella as well, so that change is entirely a 'modern sensibilities' one. Which I don't get because it shows Goombella as a strong character who won't take that lightly and beats their asses. That's a good thing, no?

TTYD was a fairly edgy toned game and the dialogue and jokes within the game reflected that, and it was quite 'out there' for a Mario game, which was really part of its charm. From what we've seen so far they're dumbing that down a lot and I dislike the new atmosphere that creates.

I have a big personal problem with the way NoA injects 'modern sensibilities' into their localisations and have done for a while (removal of all traditional marriage roles in the Pikmin 2 treasures was another utterly pointless change for no reason whatsoever), so when I see it, I just get put off.
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It's updating very dated '00s dialogue for a modern audience and E10+ rating. The game's personality, much less Goombella's characterization specifically, never hinged on things like goombas catcalling her.
 
Hailinel said:
It's updating very dated '00s dialogue for a modern audience and E10+ rating. The game's personality, much less Goombella's characterization specifically, never hinged on things like goombas catcalling her.
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That's your opinion. Mine differs. We agree to disagree.
 
ns156 said:
Please do not try to tell me what my interest is in the game just because I don't agree with you on these kinds of matters. If you're going to instantly start downplaying my concerns as trivial, then we're not going to have a good faith discussion, period. I have the original, I love the game. If the remake doesn't feel like a complete upgrade, then I question spending my money on it. It's that simple. Metriod Prime Remastered was virtually the gold standard in how to do it these days, and that's going to be my baseline comparison.



Not entirely. For example, Bowser's 'tubby' line to one of his minions was an add-in during localisation. The original JP just tells him to do pushups. The new localisation adds in the joke. I'd have preferred strict adherence to the JP script if they were going to start modifying these things. That's the purist part of me. The new script and jokes seem overly wordy and trying a bit too hard to be funny, kind of like TOK. I'm not a fan of this lite merging of TTYD to the TOK styling, as I stated before.

The original JP script for the sewer Goombas had them hitting on Goombella as well, so that change is entirely a 'modern sensibilities' one. Which I don't get because it shows Goombella as a strong character who won't take that lightly and beats their asses. That's a good thing, no?

TTYD was a fairly edgy toned game and the dialogue and jokes within the game reflected that, and it was quite 'out there' for a Mario game, which was really part of its charm. From what we've seen so far they're dumbing that down a lot and I dislike the new atmosphere that creates.

I have a big personal problem with the way NoA injects 'modern sensibilities' into their localisations and have done for a while (removal of all traditional marriage roles in the Pikmin 2 treasures was another utterly pointless change for no reason whatsoever), so when I see it, I just get put off.
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I don’t think you're interested in a good faith discussion, especially after your “they’re TOK-ing TTYD” complaint. Again, feel free to do what you wish, however, being uninterested in a remake of a game you love because of a dialogue change will always seem ridiculous to me.
 
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The guess again nerd if very funny but very out of character for Mario to say lol.

Probably can see it changed to Guess again Puni lol.

Either way, I’m more interested in playing it now with small script changes. Would like to see what catches my eye and whatnot since I played the original so many times.
 
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Mer.Saloon said:
I think the Bowser line is that nice fine balance. Remove the punching down while still keeping an aggressive joke.

IMO Crump and the Goomba's are the wrong way to go about it. They are obviously being portrayed as in the wrong for their attitudes and you give them a good whoopin'. Now they're a little less edged and the smack down is less charged.

But again, this is super nitpicky nonsense that kids won't care about.
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Kids are gonna enjoy it regardless, I was a kid when I played the first one and I loved it and found it hilarious.

It's not just kids that are gonna play it tho, so I hope it remains as funny. The Bowser thing sounds less funny to me tbh, I'll wait and see what the whole game is going to be like before I criticise it.

As for the Goomba's (and Bowser as well), there is nothing wrong or dated in portraying arsehole characters as arseholes. It shows that doing these things makes you a bad person.
 
Truno said:
I don’t think your interested in a good faith discussion, especially after your “they’re TOK-ing TTYD” complaint. Again, feel free to do what you wish, however, being uninterested in a remake of a game you love because of a dialogue change will always seem ridiculous to me.
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I don't like the newer style of Paper Mario after TTYD, never have done. I see elements of it added into the TTYD remake, and so I point it out. If you have nothing of value to add except trying to patronise me then I'd appreciate no further discourse from you.

ngpdrew said:
Can you explain what you mean by this? Did they take away XP, partners, etc???
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So while I said 'slowly pushes', what I meant was in things like the dialogue changes feel straight out of TOK. Aside from that, the art style push into the overly 3D papercraft/cardboard thing is very much the newer Paper Mario style, compared to the straight flat paper of the older games. I find it unfortunate they went this route as that is likely why they expended so much resources that there was nothing left for the 60fps stability.

VDenter said:
No, not really. If they added substantial additions like making the level design better or make the game harder as an option or make the visuals so unbelievably good that it justifies the downgraded performance, I wouldn’t really be that disappointed. But right now, it feels like Nintendo is selling me something I already owned for 20 years again but it runs worse for no good reason.





This Just looks to me like you have blind faith. At this point, i have no reason to expect them to make a follow up to TTYD. The existence of this remake hasn't filled me with any hope on that front.





Huh? So I should give Nintendo my money just to get a copy of a game that I already own and played to death, and this new version runs worse and has some changes that I don't particularly like, just on the off chance they might give me the thing I actually want next time?

Nah, sorry this is some backwards logic. I don’t owe Nintendo jack shit and they aren’t entitled to money, and I certainly don’t have to buy this remake just to hope they give me a true TTYD sequel next time in four or five years.

Not playing that game again with this franchise. I have already been burned one too many times. For all I know the next game is another Origami King and I have no reason to think otherwise untill the day they announce a new Paper Mario game and it's a turn bassed RPG in the same vein as the first two.
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I feel similar. I get that a lot of people will buy the game regardless, even if they agree with everything I've said: they want Nintendo to keep making games like this and will buy it out of hope that they're voting with their wallets for it.

For me, if they continue with the TOK elements, then I'm not sure if I'd want that. It reminds me of the whole thing with Halo 3 back in the day. 343i kept making Halo games that went farther and farther away from what made 3 good, and Halo just never recaptured its old magic. Infinite was their latest attempt to try to bring old fans back, but it still fell flat. I gave 343i a couple of shots, but no more. It's obvious the series I liked no longer exists.

Lucifer said:
Kids are gonna enjoy it regardless, I was a kid when I played the first one and I loved it and found it hilarious.

It's not just kids that are gonna play it tho, so I hope it remains as funny. The Bowser thing sounds less funny to me tbh, I'll wait and see what the whole game is going to be like before I criticise it.

As for the Goomba's (and Bowser as well), there is nothing wrong or dated in portraying arsehole characters as arseholes. It shows that doing these things makes you a bad person.
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Agreed. I'm not sure why bad guys acting like bad guys is such a problem these days. Especially when they get their asses whooped for it.
 
Hailinel said:
Consider that catcalling may not be E10+ material to today's ESRB or other ratings boards.
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Do we know if the goombas have been changed in the JP script as well?

Quite frankly, given the other changes and removal of gendered language as pointed above, I'm less inclined to believe this is a ratings board issue. It feels more like Treehouse being Treehouse. I'll concede on that one if the JP script is also altered.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
I think the Bowser line is that nice fine balance. Remove the punching down while still keeping an aggressive joke.

IMO Crump and the Goomba's are the wrong way to go about it. They are obviously being portrayed as in the wrong for their attitudes and you give them a good whoopin'. Now they're a little less edged and the smack down is less charged.

But again, this is super nitpicky nonsense that kids won't care about.
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There aren't any changes with Lord Crump.
 
ns156 said:
I don't like the newer style of Paper Mario after TTYD, never have done. I see elements of it added into the TTYD remake, and so I point it out. If you have nothing of value to add except trying to patronise me then I'd appreciate no further discourse from you.



So while I said 'slowly pushes', what I meant was in things like the dialogue changes feel straight out of TOK. Aside from that, the art style push into the overly 3D papercraft/cardboard thing is very much the newer Paper Mario style, compared to the straight flat paper of the older games. I find it unfortunate they went this route as that is likely why they expended so much resources that there was nothing left for the 60fps stability.



I feel similar. I get that a lot of people will buy the game regardless, even if they agree with everything I've said: they want Nintendo to keep making games like this and will buy it out of hope that they're voting with their wallets for it.

For me, if they continue with the TOK elements, then I'm not sure if I'd want that. It reminds me of the whole thing with Halo 3 back in the day. 343i kept making Halo games that went farther and farther away from what made 3 good, and Halo just never recaptured its old magic. Infinite was their latest attempt to try to bring old fans back, but it still fell flat. I gave 343i a couple of shots, but no more. It's obvious the series I liked no longer exists.



Agreed. I'm not sure why bad guys acting like bad guys is such a problem these days. Especially when they get their asses whooped for it.
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TTYD remake has a perfect mixture of the modern and classic artystyles and the writing being doesn't mean it's like TOK. That's not how TOK's writing was anyway.
 
ns156 said:
I don't like the newer style of Paper Mario after TTYD, never have done. I see elements of it added into the TTYD remake, and so I point it out. If you have nothing of value to add except trying to patronise me then I'd appreciate no further discourse from you.



So while I said 'slowly pushes', what I meant was in things like the dialogue changes feel straight out of TOK. Aside from that, the art style push into the overly 3D papercraft/cardboard thing is very much the newer Paper Mario style, compared to the straight flat paper of the older games. I find it unfortunate they went this route as that is likely why they expended so much resources that there was nothing left for the 60fps stability.



I feel similar. I get that a lot of people will buy the game regardless, even if they agree with everything I've said: they want Nintendo to keep making games like this and will buy it out of hope that they're voting with their wallets for it.

For me, if they continue with the TOK elements, then I'm not sure if I'd want that. It reminds me of the whole thing with Halo 3 back in the day. 343i kept making Halo games that went farther and farther away from what made 3 good, and Halo just never recaptured its old magic. Infinite was their latest attempt to try to bring old fans back, but it still fell flat. I gave 343i a couple of shots, but no more. It's obvious the series I liked no longer exists.



Agreed. I'm not sure why bad guys acting like bad guys is such a problem these days. Especially when they get their asses whooped for it.
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I get what you mean with the game taking elements from modern Paper Mario games. It is clearly a mix of old and new Paper Mario. The soundtrack is jazzy just like modern PM as well. I'm still gonna buy it because I think most of these influences aren't necessarily bad influences, some are even really nice, I think the game looks and sounds gorgeous, it actually looks like a pop up book now. I hope the team takes lessons from this game when they make the next one and actually builds on top of it instead of reverting to gimmicky battles with no XP, with the paper gimmick so on the nose. We shall see.
 
ns156 said:
The original JP script for the sewer Goombas had them hitting on Goombella as well, so that change is entirely a 'modern sensibilities' one. Which I don't get because it shows Goombella as a strong character who won't take that lightly and beats their asses. That's a good thing, no?
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I think this scene is more fraught than people realize. Dupree still flirts with Goombella, and she still shoots him down while calling him a bozo. But the sewer encounter is more a minefield. For one, the Goombas’ dialogue was racialized—they’re a clique living underground using phrases like “FINE-lookin’,” “sister,” etc. to give them an “urban” (🫠) tongue. Those characters tell a college girl to “come play.” This can easily be read as a lot more than flirting, and I think Nintendo’s perspective was that a total rewrite of the scene would produce the cleanest results and avoid drawing attention to specific components of the original conversation.
 
ns156 said:
Do we know if the goombas have been changed in the JP script as well?

Quite frankly, given the other changes and removal of gendered language as pointed above, I'm less inclined to believe this is a ratings board issue. It feels more like Treehouse being Treehouse. I'll concede on that one if the JP script is also altered.
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The Japanese script has been touched up all over the place and changes made to the English version align with it. It's not "Treehouse going rogue".
 
Lucifer said:
I get what you mean with the game taking elements from modern Paper Mario games. It is clearly a mix of old and new Paper Mario. The soundtrack is jazzy just like modern PM as well. I'm still gonna buy it because I think most of these influences aren't necessarily bad influences, some are even really nice, I think the game looks and sounds gorgeous, it actually looks like a pop up book now. I hope the team takes lessons from this game when they make the next one and actually builds on top of it instead of reverting to gimmicky battles with no XP, with the paper gimmick so on the nose. We shall see.
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I didn't want to comment on the music since it is an easy fix, but I'm also not really a fan of that either, lol. The original soundtrack is very synth heavy, and it feels like Nintendo slapped heavy Jazz on top because they could, not if they should. Rogueport with the trumpet just feels excessively over the top for me and completely changes the feel of the area from what I feel it should be.

I feel like this is a thing in a lot of more recent Nintendo games. The composers have full orchestras and just go nuts without thinking where they should use it and where not to. I ended up using the original music in the RPG Remake due to a similar feeling, and I've never even played the original.

ze_ said:
I think this scene is more fraught than people realize. Dupree still flirts with Goombella, and she still shoots him down while calling him a bozo. But the sewer encounter is more a minefield. For one, the Goombas’ dialogue was racialized—they’re a clique living underground using phrases like “FINE-lookin’,” “sister,” etc. to give them an “urban” (🫠) tongue. Those characters tell a college girl to “come play.” This can easily be read as a lot more than flirting, and I think Nintendo’s perspective was that a total rewrite of the scene would produce the cleanest results and avoid drawing attention to specific components of the original conversation.
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Did the original JP script for this scene imply the same? Or was the accents given to the Goombas a localisation thing?

Hailinel said:
The Japanese script has been touched up all over the place and changes made to the English version align with it. It's not "Treehouse going rogue".
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What, specifically, do the Goombas say now in the JP script? The dialogue they have in the current localisation doesn't feel like something that would have been written in JP, but that's just a feeling.
 
ns156 said:
Did the original JP script for this scene imply the same? Or was the accents given to the Goombas a localisation thing?
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Based on this translation of the Japanese release, it’s an invention of the North American localization. There might’ve been a regional accent at use there, not sure.

I think there is evidence that the Japanese script is undergoing changes too (and there has to be, just based on the fact that some changes in English are responding to changes in the game, e.g., turning the first Hooktail spotting into a short cutscene), but we only have overseas preview footage atm so most of what we’re discussing is limited to the English version.
 
ze_ said:
Based on this translation of the Japanese release, it’s an invention of the North American localization. There might’ve been a regional accent at use there, not sure.

I think there is evidence that the Japanese script is undergoing changes too (and there has to be, just based on the fact that some changes in English are responding to changes in the game, e.g., turning the first Hooktail spotting into a short cutscene), but we only have overseas preview footage atm so most of what we’re discussing is limited to the English version.
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That's fair enough. I won't begrudge changes that match the original script more closely; I will question changes that change it and stay different. We don't know for sure on the cat-calling yet, but the Bowser tubby line went from localised to localised so the purist in me hates it.
 
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Hailinel said:
It's updating very dated '00s dialogue for a modern audience and E10+ rating. The game's personality, much less Goombella's characterization specifically, never hinged on things like goombas catcalling her.
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I wouldn't call it dated 00s dialog. It's just good dialog for that moment and fits the characters. It's not particular offensive considering they're supposed to be bad guys.

Anyway it's a very minor moment is not worth hemming and hawing over
 
Ricimer said:
I wouldn't call it dated 00s dialog. It's just good dialog for that moment and fits the characters. It's not particular offensive considering they're supposed to be bad guys.

Anyway it's a very minor moment is not worth hemming and hawing over
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Um.

ze_ said:
I think this scene is more fraught than people realize. Dupree still flirts with Goombella, and she still shoots him down while calling him a bozo. But the sewer encounter is more a minefield. For one, the Goombas’ dialogue was racialized—they’re a clique living underground using phrases like “FINE-lookin’,” “sister,” etc. to give them an “urban” (🫠) tongue. Those characters tell a college girl to “come play.” This can easily be read as a lot more than flirting, and I think Nintendo’s perspective was that a total rewrite of the scene would produce the cleanest results and avoid drawing attention to specific components of the original conversation.
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I don't agree about it not being dated and offensive.
 
ns156 said:
I didn't want to comment on the music since it is an easy fix, but I'm also not really a fan of that either, lol. The original soundtrack is very synth heavy, and it feels like Nintendo slapped heavy Jazz on top because they could, not if they should. Rogueport with the trumpet just feels excessively over the top for me and completely changes the feel of the area from what I feel it should be.

I feel like this is a thing in a lot of more recent Nintendo games. The composers have full orchestras and just go nuts without thinking where they should use it and where not to. I ended up using the original music in the RPG Remake due to a similar feeling, and I've never even played the original.



Did the original JP script for this scene imply the same? Or was the accents given to the Goombas a localisation thing?



What, specifically, do the Goombas say now in the JP script? The dialogue they have in the current localisation doesn't feel like something that would have been written in JP, but that's just a feeling.
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I used to have the same opinion of them using jazz a bit too much, especially during the middle of the 3DS and Wii U era. But I think Nintendo has improved on this aspect while incorporating other styles of their music. SMRPG and TTYD are no exceptions.
 
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Cheetah6442 said:
There aren't any changes with Lord Crump.
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He doesn't call Goombella an airhead or girl as a way to patronize and insult her. He's generally less aggressive in that department. He calls her "Student" instead, and like... you could at least say schoolkid to keep the spirit of patronizing.

"I know this is hard for you, but don't play dumb." Is gone too and I actually think that one is funny. I can live without airhead and girl, but that one is a downgrade of meanness.

ze_ said:
I think this scene is more fraught than people realize. Dupree still flirts with Goombella, and she still shoots him down while calling him a bozo. But the sewer encounter is more a minefield. For one, the Goombas’ dialogue was racialized—they’re a clique living underground using phrases like “FINE-lookin’,” “sister,” etc. to give them an “urban” (
🫠
) tongue. Those characters tell a college girl to “come play.” This can easily be read as a lot more than flirting, and I think Nintendo’s perspective was that a total rewrite of the scene would produce the cleanest results and avoid drawing attention to specific components of the original conversation.
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I feel the best solution is then to just drop the urban tongue then and change it to something else. You could easily change it to "bro-talk" and get across that same point.

And yeah, come play is deffo more than just cute flirting of course, but again, that's still supposed to be wrong.

But Nintendo is a big company trying to mitigate any risk here.
 
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