StarTopic Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack |ST| New 2024 Poll Up

[ArchedThunder]

It's a shame that Ocarina of Time seemingly got hit the worst by emulation issues. The two Zelda games were the ones I was looking forward to re-playing the most from this.

Hopefully Nintendo does actually address the issues (at least the most glaring ones).

Considering how patch happy Nintendo is these days (as in they regularly patch games, even ones that have been out for a long time that don’t necessarily need any) I see them fixing at least some of the issues. I imagine input delay and fog in OoT will probably be fixed. Who knows when it comes to the floor in the Dark Link room, but with the controversy they might take a look at it.

 

[MisterSpo]

Nintendo World Report with a great level headed video on the emulation quality.



Highlights:

• Note that there is some input lag in game. They count it in frames and estimate 3 "maybe 4" frames of input lag. Feel like Mario 64 and OoT might have more. Will vary based on personal sensitivity and your media set up.
• Upscaling bug when playing in docked mode where some pixels are a little wider than they should be. Note most people won't even notice. Crisp in clear in handheld mode and games look great.
• Ocarina of Time has the most visual bugs. Primary issues are opacity on textures and the fog issue appears to be a rendering issue based on distance from the camera. Basically, the fog that's supposed to come in at max distance is "wider" and doesn't start to appear until further away.
• Note that opacity issues on textures have been an issue for Nintendo's emulators since the Wii.
• Also notes that the water in the Shadow Link room is the same on the WiiU release of OoT. I never got that far in the game so I can't confirm this. Just realized that the comparison shots being tossed around don't take into account the WiiU version of OoT. I guess it looks worse on switch because the fog is pushed outside the room boundaries.
• High praise for Star Fox 64. The visual and performance bugs from prior releases are now fixed and call it the best emulated release from Nintendo of the game yet. Fog seems to work fine on Star Fox.
• Hopeful that the current issues can get patched. Advocate for a way to swap between rumble and memory cards.
• "None of the games are truly broken or unplayable."
• Says the Ocarina of Time issues are disheartening, but even as the "worst" game in the package, is an improvement over the WiiU release.

Thanks for sharing this but yeah, it seems increasingly the case Ocarina is the game that really suffers. There are definite issues here NERD can aim to improve across the emulator - input lag and button remapping should be at the top of the list (button remapping really should be standard across the board for these apps). Hopefully they take the time to put in fixes that will make for a better experience with Ocarina of Time, and hopefully we don't see further additions encounter so many issues.

Star Fox 64 is the one game I sat down and played through out of the selection so far and I thought it was an excellent experience, both in portable mode and on the TV with the N64 controller. Luckily I'd played it back on Wii with the classic controller, so I remember both control schemes for the game. Still, button remapping really needs to happen.

I wonder if polite emails to NERD will make a difference...

 

[jamesRainbowBoy]

Sometimes emulating "better" does introduce issues, most likely the underlying emulation is technically more accurate where before it was superficially so. I suspect that the fog issue in OOT is simply that, due to performance improvements, the game isn't forced to fog where it once had to, inadvertently producing this undesired effect. They will probably have to slow the game engine down internally to fix.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Sometimes emulating "better" does introduce issues, most likely the underlying emulation is technically more accurate where before it was superficially so. I suspect that the fog issue in OOT is simply that, due to performance improvements, the game isn't forced to fog where it once had to, inadvertently producing this undesired effect. They will probably have to slow the game engine down internally to fix.

That’s not really how it works, you can’t just “slow“ the engine down. Slowing the game down itself also wouldn’t fix the fog effect and would just make the game slower than the original version. The fog issue is simply a bug that needs to be fixed. Also if it had anything to do with game speed then the PAL version wouldn’t have the same issues.

 

[Jersh]

Considering how patch happy Nintendo is these days (as in they regularly patch games, even ones that have been out for a long time that don’t necessarily need any) I see them fixing at least some of the issues. I imagine input delay and fog in OoT will probably be fixed. Who knows when it comes to the floor in the Dark Link room, but with the controversy they might take a look at it.

I'd imagine legit errors like the dark link room are more likely to be fixed than the fog, which might be intentional.

Sometimes emulating "better" does introduce issues, most likely the underlying emulation is technically more accurate where before it was superficially so. I suspect that the fog issue in OOT is simply that, due to performance improvements, the game isn't forced to fog where it once had to, inadvertently producing this undesired effect. They will probably have to slow the game engine down internally to fix.

That's not the case. OoT can slow down on actual hardware, and the fog doesn't get more intense when that happens. It might be tied to the resolution, however, which was increased.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I'd imagine legit errors like the dark link room are more likely to be fixed than the fog, which might be intentional.

I doubt it was intentional since it makes a lot of stuff look worse.

 

[Jersh]

I doubt it was intentional since it makes a lot of stuff look worse.

That's rather subjective. There's several areas where it's kinda nice imo.

But yes, not everywhere.

 

[Martin]

Funny how nintendos implementation of downloaded nso stuff is better than Sonys.
You can download the DLC for free but also can buy it if you want to.

Is this finally possible with ps plus or still not?

 

[Ayron]

Surprising news: GoldenEye 007 is (finally) not on the German index any more.

There apparently was a request to check whether it can be removed, and it was successful. There are probably licensing/rights issues that are difficult to solve, but nonetheless Switch Online Expansion Pack could very well be the cause.

 

[Mandos]

Definitely curious to see the first update, think it’ll be meatier than people think

 

[ArchedThunder]

Definitely curious to see the first update, think it’ll be meatier than people think

I imagine the first update with just be 1 or 2 games and some emulation improvements.

 

[Mandos]

I imagine the first update with just be 1 or 2 games and some emulation improvements.

Nah fixes aren’t connected to the updates inherently. I’m thinking 2-3 N64 games(with some regional variance), 3-5 Genesis games and maybe a Nes or Snes game or two

 

[Josh5890]

I don't know if it is the controller or the game/rom used but for Super Mario 64 I feel a million times more confortable using the N64 controller and playing on the app as opposed to using the pro controller on 3D All Stars. I am not getting any cheap deaths this time around.

I will give the controller a shot on the 3D All Stars version but I think it is more so the controller.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Nah fixes aren’t connected to the updates inherently. I’m thinking 2-3 N64 games(with some regional variance), 3-5 Genesis games and maybe a Nes or Snes game or two

Not inherently, no, but for whatever reason my gut says emulation improvements will come with new games instead of on their own. Also I wasn’t thinking of Genesis, by 1 to 2 games I meant N64. Since apparently way more Genesis games are planned than N64 I could tot see 3+ games for it in the first update.

 

[Mandos]

Not inherently, no, but for whatever reason my gut says emulation improvements will come with new games instead of on their own. Also I wasn’t thinking of Genesis, by 1 to 2 games I meant N64. Since apparently way more Genesis games are planned than N64 I could tot see 3+ games for it in the first update.

Yeah I meant as a whole. But for N64 2-3 is what I expect, they aren’t going to go super tight but that was the normal range for Snes and this is a higher tier service. Genesis should get more tho. And Nes and snes are supposed to get more games too still

 

[TurtleRock]

As a huge Genesis fan, and someone who had that rather than the snes growing up, it’s a huge bummer to see a lot of people on other social media platforms so dismissive of the games. It’s a fantastic console with incredible games and it’s library did a great job of setting itself apart from the SNES by focusing on fast paced action games. I think having them adds a ton of value to the service. MUSHA is arguably the greatest SHMUP of that generation and we have it on day 1. Phantasy Star IV is a classic and it’s probably the best rpg across all the consoles on offer. And M2 being in charge of this is worth the subscription fee to me. When they’re not involved with Sega’s back catalog the efforts turn out very sub par…

I cannot wait to get more Genesis games!

 

[TurtleRock]

Saw something about unique sound effects being on the N64 app when using the controller. Any word on if Gen/MD does a similar thing?

My controllers finally came in this morning. Genesis/Mega Drive has unique sounds as well but no unique UI graphics. It's also detected by the switch as a simple pro controller.

There's stuff like the shield power up sound, ring collecting, sonic skidding to stop (used to back out of sort menu which I thought was clever), and checkpoint bell.

 

[Pineapple Pizza]

Genesis/Mega Drive has unique sounds as well but no unique UI graphics. It's also detected by the switch as a simple pro controller.

Oh that's a disappointing oversight not to have the icon next to your player avatar. But the upshot is I guess you can remap the buttons in the system menu, so it could work well for retro titles that don't use a lot of buttons (not sure how many Streets of Rage 4 uses).

Maybe they will push an update through for it.

How is the D-pad on it? The controllers that came with my Mega Drive Mini were not the same quality as the original, with the D-pad frequently getting jammed.

 

[MisterSpo]

Played through Gunstar Heroes this afternoon - as excellent as ever. Not sure what's next. Maybe Sin and Punishment, which I haven't played since it came out on Wii's VC, but also want to try Ristar and Castlevania Bloodlines for the first time.

Still haven't seen the Mega Drive controllers on offer in the UK, so I'll be keeping my eyes open for that. The N64 controller is good.

 

[totofogo]

Son of a bitch, wish I had read this 30 minutes earlier. My wife isn't on the family plan so she won't be able to access 'my' DLC from NSO. She could buy it separately, I guess, but long term it would be better if the purchase were tied to my account.

Just remembered this post as I went to preload the DLC, you can still buy it on your account! It just brings up a pop up saying that you already have access to it with your membership and to confirm you would like to buy

 

[batfax]

My controllers finally came in this morning. Genesis/Mega Drive has unique sounds as well but no unique UI graphics. It's also detected by the switch as a simple pro controller.

There's stuff like the shield power up sound, ring collecting, sonic skidding to stop (used to back out of sort menu which I thought was clever), and checkpoint bell.

No unique UI graphics is... weird! But I'm glad SEGA got a little bit of somethin' in the special sounds department. Guess it's only natural for them to use Sonic SFX.

 

[BombChorizo]

Looks like my N64 controller will be delivered tomorrow which is a huge bummer. I’ve been holding off on playing most N64 games until I get it. I really wanted to dive into OOT tonight but I might wait

 

[Sander RX]

Would Nintendo sell a Turbografx-16/PC Engine controller if they added it onto the service?

 

[Josh5890]

Would Nintendo sell a Turbografx-16/PC Engine controller if they added it onto the service?

I'd buy it.

 

[E.Gadd]

Oddly enough, I have adapted to using the xbox/pro controllers for everything BUT Super Mario 64.

Apparently I had learned how to cope with the camera controls so well on a N64 controller that now when I instinctively go to adjust them on the fly I just absolutely ruin myself lol.

 

[Phantoon]

As a huge Genesis fan, and someone who had that rather than the snes growing up, it’s a huge bummer to see a lot of people on other social media platforms so dismissive of the games. It’s a fantastic console with incredible games and it’s library did a great job of setting itself apart from the SNES by focusing on fast paced action games. I think having them adds a ton of value to the service. MUSHA is arguably the greatest SHMUP of that generation and we have it on day 1. Phantasy Star IV is a classic and it’s probably the best rpg across all the consoles on offer. And M2 being in charge of this is worth the subscription fee to me. When they’re not involved with Sega’s back catalog the efforts turn out very sub par…

I cannot wait to get more Genesis games!

Not only does the Genesis / Mega Drive have an incredible library, the selection on the Switch app is already amazing. Shining Force, Contra, Bloodlines, MUSHA, Phantasy Star and Streets of Rage 2 in the first update? Oh my.

 

[MondoMega]

For some reason this feels relevant to this thread; can't put my finger on why.

 

[bloopland33]

Just remembered this post as I went to preload the DLC, you can still buy it on your account! It just brings up a pop up saying that you already have access to it with your membership and to confirm you would like to buy

That's awesome!!! Thank you. Guess those few of us jumped to conclusions last week, not sure how we all got so convinced of that.

 

[Phantoon]

That's how it used to work on PSN, I'm glad this doesn't seem to be the case here

 

[Barely Able]

Would Nintendo sell a Turbografx-16/PC Engine controller if they added it onto the service?

They would charge $50 for it, and I would just use the 8bitdo wireless version. Can be had for $18-25. Only problem is the turbo switch is digital rather than analog. Whenever I get this, will have to try my 6 button retrobit Genesis controller. A little worried that the button placement might not work and not having in app remapping would be irritating.

 

[Dopply]

Using the NSO N64 controller absolutely enhances these far beyond their 'good enough' emulation quality. That controller is literally spot on, even the rumble feels right. It's really awesome.

 

[Brock Reiher]

we all love yoshi's story now yes

 

[Clix]

As a huge Genesis fan, and someone who had that rather than the snes growing up, it’s a huge bummer to see a lot of people on other social media platforms so dismissive of the games. It’s a fantastic console with incredible games and it’s library did a great job of setting itself apart from the SNES by focusing on fast paced action games. I think having them adds a ton of value to the service. MUSHA is arguably the greatest SHMUP of that generation and we have it on day 1. Phantasy Star IV is a classic and it’s probably the best rpg across all the consoles on offer. And M2 being in charge of this is worth the subscription fee to me. When they’re not involved with Sega’s back catalog the efforts turn out very sub par…

I cannot wait to get more Genesis games!

Right?! I was a Sega kid too. Genesis and Sega CD, Saturn, Dreamcast. Like, the Genesis is an awesome system. And the Sega CD made it even better. I hope they bring Sega CD eventually. I can only dream.

 

[Red Monster]

$50 is just too much for the Genesis controller. Anyone got recs for a cheaper alternative?

 

[EvilChameleon]

we all love yoshi's story now yes

Yoshi's Story was yet another one of those games I had my parents rent endlessly from the video store my sister worked at.

 

[Agnezenn]

Considering how patch happy Nintendo is these days (as in they regularly patch games, even ones that have been out for a long time that don’t necessarily need any) I see them fixing at least some of the issues. I imagine input delay and fog in OoT will probably be fixed. Who knows when it comes to the floor in the Dark Link room, but with the controversy they might take a look at it.

I could probably learn to live with the input delay, but I hope they fix the graphical issues. Stuff like the fog especially is a bigger deal to me. Here's hoping you're right, and they do update it.

 

[GJ]

After two Mario Party sessions I played about an hour of online matches in a couple different N64 games with a friend tonight and we had close to zero issues. We had lag once for about a second during Mario Tennis, and during a game of Winback we got a message that the connection was unstable even though we both had 4 bars and the game didn’t slow down at all. So that was a bit odd.

During Mario Kart 64 my friend got confused by the split-screen and said “it would be cool if we could play this online”, lol. It took him a second to realise we already were. So for all the horror stories out there; here’s one of people who actually had a lot of fun with it online. I can’t wait for F-Zero!

 

[Ostia]

It actually isn't. The emulator for Mario 64 in 3D All Stars is from one of Nintendo's Japanese teams and the game also had some manual changes made.

This N64 emulator seems to be from NERD. Side by side screens do show differences - the 3DAS version of 64 still has some of the fog and blur effects evident in the distance of its levels, while on NSO those effects are now completely absent.

Hm Ok, must have had some bad info then

 

[Naru]

The main issue is that the price is way too high for what they offer. They need to increase the amount of games asap so that the value increases for people that bought it. The price/value is way out of line right now.

 

[Martin]

Got my N64 controller and wow that thing is amazing.
Can't wait to play MM and Banjo with it!

Now I need a 8Bitdo to make a N64 wireless adapter!!

 

[Luneth]

I was finally able to get the expansion pack yesterday, and despite reading a lot of complains since the launch, the moment I saw the ocarina of time logo in the screen everything else vanished. It's something truly magical, the OST, the characters, getting again the Kori sword and beating Gohma.... Amazing. I was a child again.

I have to say that I don't have experienced anything bad about the game. It's exactly like I remember playing, but much pristine due to it being in HD. It's a dream being able to carry all those great consoles and games in the same device with an OLED screen. What a time to be alive.

 

[Reinhard Schneider]

$50 is just too much for the Genesis controller. Anyone got recs for a cheaper alternative?

8bitdo M30, and use the button mapping tool to make it 1:1 with a genesis controller.

 

[MisterSpo]

Got round to Choco Mountain on Mario Kart 64, and I thought it looked fine, though I know it's not rendering the fog the way it did on the console. I would still definitely prefer a patch for Ocarina of Time.

Hopefully they do patch this. Button remapping probably isn't coming, which is silly, but they've yet to add that to NES or SNES (easy to argue there's less need there with less complex controllers, but button remapping should be a standard feature).

That being said, I'd like to see changes to Ocarina specifically, when it comes to transparency effects etc, because I think it's more in keeping with the original aesthetic there. Expansion pak features should be added via a toggle, and while input lag isn't an issue (or at least a perceptible issue for me, for the most part), effort to minimise that would be great.

One final thing would be doing what they can to adjust analog controls. I noticed that, in Yoshi's Story, it was difficult to gauge my jump using the Switch analog sticks - even a slight tilt sends Yoshi flying sideways, so you need to adjust back to control the jump. Haven't tried it with the N64 pad yet, but I'm guessing that's an analog issue.

 

[Reinhard Schneider]

One final thing would be doing what they can to adjust analog controls. I noticed that, in Yoshi's Story, it was difficult to gauge my jump using the Switch analog sticks - even a slight tilt sends Yoshi flying sideways, so you need to adjust back to control the jump. Haven't tried it with the N64 pad yet, but I'm guessing that's an analog issue.

It's an analog range issue and i frankly find it annoying, Yoshi's Story is the game i always use to test new controllers because it's a better showcase of the N64 joystick than SM64 imo, it's very sensible to slight tilts and It reflects on waking, jumping and aiming.

 

[MisterSpo]

It's an analog range issue and i frankly find it annoying, Yoshi's Story is the game i always use to test new controllers because it's a better showcase of the N64 joystick than SM64 imo, it's very sensible to slight tilts and It reflects on waking, jumping and aiming.

Yeah, I thought it was. I'm guessing this is an issue that's carried over from previous emulators, too. I'm going to want to play some games in portable mode, as fun as it is to play with the N64 controller. Given the controller is only going to be available in limited quantities, they should aim to patch it so that the Switch analog controls are less twitchy.

 

[Brock Reiher]

when are we getting Mach Rider and urban champion

 

[Abzeronow]

when are we getting Mach Rider and urban champion

Nintendo has been remarkably restrained in not adding Urban Champion to NES app. Still a few NES deepcuts I'd like to see (8 Eyes, Astyanax)

 

[MisterSpo]

Personally I'm hoping for a good December update - titles for all four systems, and F Zero X on N64 would be especially welcome. Nintendo need to keep improving this offering.

 

[Mandos]

Personally I'm hoping for a good December update - titles for all four systems, and F Zero X on N64 would be especially welcome. Nintendo need to keep improving this offering.

I’m still thinking 2-3 N64, 3-6 genesis and a random number of nes and snes

 

[weemadarthur]

Is this finally possible with ps plus or still not?

Yes. Sometime in the past month or three, it was fixed.