StarTopic Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST2| Fami's Summer Gameguess

[Rooster]

Never said anything about keeping Camelot on sports games. Just said Nintendo has a lot of love for Golden Sun still despite how many years have gone by.

"The big thing holding it back is finding the right developer/studio to work on it, because Camelot has its plate full with Mario sports, and Mario sports makes Nintendo a lot of money".

My read on Emily's words is Nintendo wants to keep Camelot on the profitable (and not risky) Mario sports titles, and GS will remain outprioritized at that studio, with the involvement of a new developer necessary to bring that series back.

 

[Shadow]

Will we be able to read the text this time though?

 

[Sadist]

Nope

It was a false flag day operation

:0

 

[SofyTrancy]

After that leak my hype is at its limit.
If Nintendo doesn’t show FE at this point I don’t know what my reaction will be lol

 

[xghost777]

"The big thing holding it back is finding the right developer/studio to work on it, because Camelot has its plate full with Mario sports, and Mario sports makes Nintendo a lot of money".

My read on Emily's words is Nintendo wants to keep Camelot on the profitable (and not risky) Mario sports titles, and GS will remain outprioritized at that studio, with the involvement of a new developer necessary to bring that series back.

I wouldn’t read them as locked into sports titles. They just prioritize them. Finding the right time is hard.

The interesting thing now is there seems to be a gap finally. Tennis and Golf are both out and depending on what Switch Gen 2 looks like, it might not need another new Tennis and Golf game if Aces and Super Rush are backwards compatible. Now they could just make a new Mario Sport game, but there’s opportunity here.

You could be right though and they just need a new developer if this gap isn’t taken advantaged of.

 

[Deleted member 2]

I’ll never understand the standards gamers have with visuals

It’s such a disconnect for me.

As someone who got into gaming really in the last decade, and caught up on what I missed with SNES, PS1, N64, and still found them all classics despite the visuals, it’s just crazy to me how people who actually HAVE been gaming since then care so much about it. You stomached it before and considered them classics!

Kind of a rant and may sound immature. But I really don’t know how else to express it. It’s bewildering to me and always will be. How only the latest and greatest is acceptable

I feel the exact same way as someone who's been gaming since the SNES

 

[Deleted member 2]

Nope

It was a false flag day operation

On flag day, no less. The disrespect

 

[thoughthaver]

I’ll never understand the standards gamers have with visuals

It’s such a disconnect for me.

As someone who got into gaming really in the last decade, and caught up on what I missed with SNES, PS1, N64, and still found them all classics despite the visuals, it’s just crazy to me how people who actually HAVE been gaming since then care so much about it. You stomached it before and considered them classics!

Kind of a rant and may sound immature. But I really don’t know how else to express it. It’s bewildering to me and always will be. How only the latest and greatest is acceptable

the moment i saw Gamers™ losing their shit at puddles i realized that this graphics race shit was going nowhere good.

 

[Phendrift]

the moment i saw Gamers™ losing their shit at puddles i realized that this graphics race shit was going nowhere good.

I feel like I’m in crazy town reading the last of us threads comparing the most slight facial expressions in the remake and being the only one like “why does this matter”

 

[Rooster]

I wouldn’t read them as locked into sports titles. They just prioritize them. Finding the right time is hard.

The interesting thing now is there seems to be a gap finally. Tennis and Golf are both out and depending on what Switch Gen 2 looks like, it might not need another new Tennis and Golf game if Aces and Super Rush are backwards compatible. Now they could just make a new Mario Sport game, but there’s opportunity here.

Yes, prioritize them to the exclusion of the other series. As has been the case for the last dozen years and as will continue until it doesn't. Emily sees the solution not resting with Camelot. I think that's the point being made.

I would love for this gap to be filled with a GS game, but frankly, I'm not optimistic. I do think we're going to have to wait for the MercurySteam or Wayforward equivalent, for someone new to take the series into their own hands. It would appear Emily concurs with that.

 

[JR436]

I had the displeasure of discovering those FE leaked pictures on ERA.

Their ability to fall into hyperbolic negativity over nothing would be impressive if it weren't so depressive.

It's one of the most performatively cynical places I've ever seen.

I look at the Sonic Frontiers reveal thread, or the Xbox Showcase impressions thread, and I refuse to believe that so many people can be that miserable about their hobby.

 

[mariodk18]

“That’s my secret, cap. I’m always leaking.”

 

[MissingNo.]

Two leeks in two days, gdi.

 

[PixelKnight]

I feel the exact same way as someone who's been gaming since the SNES

I’m the same. Been playing games since the 80s and advances in visuals are often such diminishing returns to me at this point, in that the visuals all look great to me and have done for ages. I mainly play on portables though, so I guess I see people turn their nose up at Switch visuals compared to PS5/PC or whatever, when I’m mainly comparing them to the 3DS and Vita and thinking ‘man that looks good’.

I don’t think I’ve ever complained about puddles or frame rates or whatever outside of Skyrim on PS3 when it dropped to single digits if your save file got too big and then crashed if you went in the water

 

[thoughthaver]

I feel like I’m in crazy town reading the last of us threads comparing the most slight facial expressions in the remake and being the only one like “why does this matter”

those people dont really play games, they just stare at them. then they go online to fight with other people that are staring at the same game but dont think it looks good because its not 8k 120fps. absolutely miserable lot.

 

[EtherPenguin]

I know people don't mean it this way, but saying you've been playing games since the 80s/90s as the reason you don't care how graphics look sounds like a backhanded compliment to pixel art

 

[PixelKnight]

those people dont really play games, they just stare at them. then they go online to fight with other people that are staring at the same game but dont think it looks good because its not 8k 120fps. absolutely miserable lot.

Also people staring at them from two feet away on a monitor or their phone, when in motion, on a tv on the other side of the living room, you aren’t going to notice.

I remember when I looked at screenshots for hours. It was in the early 90s, when squinting at low res pics in games magazines was what counted as previews, praying that the pic you were looking at was actually the format they said it was. Which was more likely than the lack of regulation of the games box art and ads back then

 

[PixelKnight]

I know people don't mean it this way, but saying you've been playing games since the 80s/90s as the reason you don't care how graphics look sounds like a backhanded compliment to pixel art

I don’t mean it that way at all. I love pixel art, I tend to look at stuff in the context of what it’s trying to do. So heavily stylised stuff like Fire Emblem I’ll compare to something like Valkyria Chronicles (which still looks great to me). Whereas modern pixel art like Cyber Shadow or Shovel Knight, I’ll compare to the pixel art of the games they are referencing. All of those games still look amazing to me whether they were made 30 years ago, 15 or 5.

 

[SirArthur]

I would love for this gap to be filled with a GS game, but frankly, I'm not optimistic. I do think we're going to have to wait for the MercurySteam or Wayforward equivalent, for someone new to take the series into their own hands. It would appear Emily concurs with that.

Even with the discourse around the sports title, Aces has sold north of 3 mil and Golf should be north or at 2 mil. And like you said those are safe titles.

A collaboration seems like the more optimistic solution.

However I am curious what their next project is, Aces was 2018, Golf was 2021, which if the pandemic had not happen I feel it would have been a 2020 game. Based on their schedule we might see something late next year/early 2024.

 

[JorgenRaft]

I mean I love Nintendo games but a lot of their games look super rough, more so as the years go on. And when you see what the competition is doing, it is sad to think we could be getting Nintendo games that look and run just as well. But it's not the fault of the developers that Nintendo's current console is essentially a cheap iPad. And yeah, they can still be fun despite being fugly.

 

[Mr_No_U]

That's why I love that Nintendo focuses more on art style than sheer tech. Their games end up aging a lot better.

 

[nocdaes]

"It looks like that because it's an early build".

Sorry, but that is such nonsense! An early build does not automatically mean your assets looks trash. Also, the earlier the build the less people that have seen it. This is entirely fake, unless you're really suggesting one of the developers leaked their own work... I mean, maybe they don't want to work in the games industry anymore right?!

 

[Phendrift]

I know people don't mean it this way, but saying you've been playing games since the 80s/90s as the reason you don't care how graphics look sounds like a backhanded compliment to pixel art

I’m not at all, in fact this only furthers the point. Games can look gorgeous no matter the resolution

 

[Arrietty]

Sorry, but that is such nonsense! An early build does not automatically mean your assets looks trash.

Do you even make video games to be saying this lmao

Because let me tell you, that is a gigantic fucking lie.

 

[JetstreamRorschach]

I'd argue Fatum Betula is one of the prettiest games on the Switch.

 

[Kaka]

Is the Mario Odyssey maintenance something special and out of the ordinary or did the game had regular maintenances till this day ?

 

[Deleted member 101]

 

[JR436]

Re: Mario Odyssey - I imagine it's just regular stuff.

Though the idea of Nintendo suddenly bringing in a policy of adding DLC to five year old games is amusing. Maybe MK8 wasn't an exception after all, but a beginning!

 

[Arrietty]

Maintenance has been finished, so I doubt it was anything. Probably something with the leaderboards. We probably won't see DLC let alone an Odyssey too. Bowser Fury suspiciously felt like the end result of them scrapping such plans.

 

[thoughthaver]

I mean I love Nintendo games but a lot of their games look super rough, more so as the years go on. And when you see what the competition is doing, it is sad to think we could be getting Nintendo games that look and run just as well. But it's not the fault of the developers that Nintendo's current console is essentially a cheap iPad. And yeah, they can still be fun despite being fugly.

i mean look at the ballooning costs necessary to create those big triple ayyy experiences. crunch, bloated budgets and staff, endless delays and long development periods, all punctuated by staff churn. and even if you make to the end, you better hope that your first showing is near perfect or else the internet hiveminds will label your game as a PS2 game. and then come the delays and crunch to fix that shit. its unsustainable but nobody wants to actually address it. and this graphic fidelity race does eventually have a limit, as seen by TLOU R which had people questioning which one was the remake.

 

[KeijiKG]

What more could possibly be announced for this year or the upcoming one, I wonder.
Year seems pretty packed business-wise.

 

[EtherPenguin]

I don’t mean it that way at all. I love pixel art, I tend to look at stuff in the context of what it’s trying to do. So heavily stylised stuff like Fire Emblem I’ll compare to something like Valkyria Chronicles (which still looks great to me). Whereas modern pixel art like Cyber Shadow or Shovel Knight, I’ll compare to the pixel art of the games they are referencing. All of those games still look amazing to me whether they were made 30 years ago, 15 or 5.

I guess I see a stronger difference between art style and technical proficiency. Like, yes these games go for a more stylized art style but that edge artifacting or the blurriness in games like Xenoblade aren't intended parts of that art style. People in this thread mistook the edge artifacts for a sloppy photoshop job after all. Meanwhile, pixel art games were largely free of graphical hiccups in that vein. These games don't feel ageless to me in the same way pixel art games do.

Also I'm not sure if higher standards among gamers is to fully to blame, but also just the fact that TVs have changed. Playing a PS2 game on a CRT in 2005 doesn't look the same as playing a PS2 game on a 4K game today. Pixel art games on the other hand just need to integer scale. I get there's an extreme when people are comparing minor facial expressions but I think a lot of people just want these games to have clean lines and be able to enjoy the art style without being filtered through artifacts, blurriness, and jaggies.

It just seems like comparing apples and oranges to me. But I also feel people would get mad at me if I continue this line of thought if it sounds too resetera-ish, so I'll drop it.

 

[BY2K]

Imagine if the new FE isn't at the Direct.

Though at this point that would be very surprising.

 

[JorgenRaft]

i mean look at the ballooning costs necessary to create those big triple ayyy experiences. crunch, bloated budgets and staff, endless delays and long development periods, all punctuated by staff churn. and even if you make to the end, you better hope that your first showing is near perfect or else the internet hiveminds will label your game as a PS2 game. and then come the delays and crunch to fix that shit. its unsustainable but nobody wants to actually address it. and this graphic fidelity race does eventually have a limit, as seen by TLOU R which had people questioning which one was the remake.

It’s not unsustainable just because Nintendo happens to push cheaper to make software more sold at the same price as the competitors. It’s something Sony and MS have been doing for decades. Especially with how services work in an ever evolving medium. I’m just criticizing the visuals and performance of Nintendo’s games and blaming it on the inferior hardware.

Also anyone giving crap to the TLOU remake looking not different is being super selective about the shots they use. Nintendo has made remakes in smaller time frames as well with lesser graphical jumps and they sold bangers just like this game will.

 

[pld]

I would not be surprised if they waited for the FE announcement until the September Direct.

 

[lmog]

Imagine in Nintendo would release Odyssey DLC featuring Super Mario 64 courses remade

 

[Phendrift]

I guess I see a stronger difference between art style and technical proficiency. Like, yes these games go for a more stylized art style but that edge artifacting or the blurriness in games like Xenoblade aren't intended parts of that art style. People in this thread mistook the edge artifacts for a sloppy photoshop job after all. Meanwhile, pixel art games were largely free of graphical hiccups in that vein. These games don't feel ageless to me in the same way pixel art games do.

Also I'm not sure if higher standards among gamers is to fully to blame, but also just the fact that TVs have changed. Playing a PS2 game on a CRT in 2005 doesn't look the same as playing a PS2 game on a 4K game today. Pixel art games on the other hand just need to integer scale. I get there's an extreme when people are comparing minor facial expressions but I think a lot of people just want these games to have clean lines and be able to enjoy the art style without being filtered through artifacts, blurriness, and jaggies.

It just seems like comparing apples and oranges to me. But I also feel people would get mad at me if I continue this line of thought if it sounds too resetera-ish, so I'll drop it.

I don’t think wanting better visuals is necessarily bad, I think being happy when games push visuals is cool, and appreciating them is fine as well.

My point was that the culture around it has just gone way WAY overboard. It’s toxic for discussion (on top of the fact that literally WHAT could be more boring to discuss about a game than the number of pixels on the screen) and creates a crazy standard that has devs crunch themselves and take more time just so they can show off a realistic reflection in water or something and have gamers make knee-jerk, surface-level comparisons on Twitter by putting two screens side by side.

I personally think it’s unsustainable for the industry in the long run. What’s looked at as amazing now will be “outdated” “last gen ew” to these same people in 5 years, and we’ll be left with how well the game’s gameplay, narrative and art direction stand on their own when the pixel count is outdated. I just feel those timeless elements of a game should be more of a focus from the start I guess?

Tl;dr tech-pushing visuals are nice but I feel the importance placed on them is too lopsided for how important they actually are to a great and timeless game, creating an unsustainable downsides in the industry that we’re already seeing

 

[DoofTroop]

I'm definitely not a pixel counter or get my jollies from amazing graphics and I think most Switch games range between good to amazing looking. If anything I kinda wish they'd scale down some games even further for better image quality as that is what really kills me sometimes.

I love Xenoblade 2 to bits but handheld mode is just a mushy, grainy mess to me. I'd easily take a mode that scaled down some stuff for a generally sharper image. I'm sure there's difficulties and it's not as easy as "lets turn down the graphics to get the sharpness up" but that's generally my beef with a couple of Switch games nowadays.

Otherwise I think a lot of their games look awesome. Polish is off the charts in general.

 

[Ojoloco]

What did this say? Who tweeted it

the tweet something like "this happens for holding the game too long"

 

[JorgenRaft]

Switch being weak aside, it is just disappointing to see uglier looking games when they’ve shown that they can make good looking ones for the system, even if they don’t run amazingly. FE and Pokémon have been the bigger culprits of that.

 

[thoughthaver]

It’s not unsustainable just because Nintendo happens to push cheaper to make software more sold at the same price as the competitors. It’s something Sony and MS have been doing for decades. Especially with how services work in an ever evolving medium. I’m just criticizing the visuals and performance of Nintendo’s games and blaming it on the inferior hardware.

Also anyone giving crap to the TLOU remake looking not different is being super selective about the shots they use. Nintendo has made remakes in smaller time frames as well with lesser graphical jumps and they sold bangers just like this game will.

it is unsustainable. do you think you can just increase scope without running into problems? fuck no. there's a reason why we're seeing mass consolidation and publishers chasing the GaaS unicorn. it's expensive to make games at that level of fidelity and it's even more expensive to do it independently.

 

[UncleAlbert]

Didn't Emily say that Nintendo has interest in another Golden Sun but doesn't want to take Camelot off the sports titles?

That's not to say there aren't options to get both... but... Nintendo has yet to take them.


I don't think FE was ever dead. It was on death's door for a minute there, but ever since it first showed up it got games fairly regularly. More than can be said for a lot of Nintendo franchises.

Darn, now you got me dreaming of a Monolith Soft-made Golden Sun and my mouth is watering.

It's a real shame that Camelot is stuck making mediocre sports games. The last good tennis game IMO was on the Gamecube, and I don't really like golf so I can't comment on that. But yeah, I guess they make money, and I don't see Golden Sun reaching 2 million sold copies sadly.

I don’t think wanting better visuals is necessarily bad, I think being happy when games push visuals is cool, and appreciating them is fine as well.

My point was that the culture around it has just gone way WAY overboard. It’s toxic for discussion (on top of the fact that literally WHAT could be more boring to discuss about a game than the number of pixels on the screen) and creates a crazy standard that has devs crunch themselves and take more time just so they can show off a realistic reflection in water or something and have gamers make knee-jerk, surface-level comparisons on Twitter by putting two screens side by side.

I personally think it’s unsustainable for the industry in the long run. What’s looked at as amazing now will be “outdated” “last gen ew” to these same people in 5 years, and we’ll be left with how well the game’s gameplay, narrative and art direction stand on their own when the pixel count is outdated. I just feel those timeless elements of a game should be more of a focus from the start I guess?

Tl;dr tech-pushing visuals are nice but I feel the importance placed on them is too lopsided for how important they actually are to a great and timeless game, creating an unsustainable downsides in the industry that we’re already seeing

100% agree with you. I'm weirded out by all the discussion about frames per second and pixel count etcetera. Not to stuff on the guys themselves, they make good work, but I find that Digital Foundry is the epitome of this overfocus on graphics.

I don't really care if Xenoblade DE slows down at times or graphics pop up when in handheld, it's still an stellar game. And I don't care if Age of Calamity almost explodes on intense battles, I still had a lot of fun. Graphics and performance won't ever be a factor when buying a game for me. Art direction is another thing (i.e., the Diamond/Pearl remakes, I dislike the art style and have no interest in buying that).

I stopped gaming between 2011-2017 and before that time no one around me discussed FPS or resolution, at most you would say "that game has pretty good graphics" or the opposite (I remember the Wind Waker backlash, and still, it wasn't a graphics thing but an art style thing, and that game certainly has aged better than Twilight Princess). When I got back to be interested in gaming all of a sudden there are all these youtube channels and media sites and forums discussing these things and to me it's still weird and almost allienating.

Having said that, I don't judge people that worry about these things. An eye roll is enough for me to move on.

 

[JorgenRaft]

it is unsustainable. do you think you can just increase scope without running into problems? fuck no. there's a reason why we're seeing mass consolidation and publishers chasing the GaaS unicorn. it's expensive to make games at that level of fidelity and it's even more expensive to do it independently.

Bud if you look at the quarterlies you’ll see that they’re just fine lol. Gaming in general is becoming absurdly more successful by the year. Just because Sony and Nintendo aren’t doing the exact same thing, it doesn’t mean one has to be failing and the other doesn’t.

 

[12cheeper]

Bud if you look at the quarterlies you’ll see that they’re just fine lol. Gaming in general is becoming absurdly more successful by the year. Just because Sony and Nintendo aren’t doing the exact same thing, it doesn’t mean one has to be failing and the other doesn’t.

tbf you shouldn't expect them to.Sonys been shifting towards these story focused "cinematic" games that are essentially interactive action movies since the late ps3 era.Though even then theres a few exceptions with first party sony titles like spiderman here and there.
Meanwhile nintendo has mostly just been doing their own thing.
Part of the issue though if you consider it one is that these same massive cinematic games also need to sell extraordinarily well just to make any sort of profit at all.

 

[thoughthaver]

Bud if you look at the quarterlies you’ll see that they’re just fine lol. Gaming in general is becoming absurdly more successful by the year. Just because Sony and Nintendo aren’t doing the exact same thing, it doesn’t mean one has to be failing and the other doesn’t.

you do know that im not just talking about financials right. cuz if you just look at the financials everything is rosy and good and there are no problems in Gaming Land

 

[Blue Monty]

Bud if you look at the quarterlies you’ll see that they’re just fine lol. Gaming in general is becoming absurdly more successful by the year. Just because Sony and Nintendo aren’t doing the exact same thing, it doesn’t mean one has to be failing and the other doesn’t.

Most of SIE revenue doesn't come from their own games but digital sales on their platform (including MTX). Also compare Sony output quantity wise versus Nintendo, if Nintendo releases as many games as SIE does Nintendo would be out of the hardware buisness, Nintendo has to carry their platform alone while Sony can and does rely on 3rd parties to do so.

 

[12cheeper]

you do know that im not just talking about financials right. cuz if you just look at the financials everything is rosy and good and there are no problems in Gaming Land

Crunch culture is definitely an issue at least from a moral standpoint.Though I'm not sure making an appeal to the idea of human dignity or whatever is really enough to fix the underlying causes of crunch culture to begin with

 

[CherryGodzilla]

Yeah, we'll bring him on for something this year. Maybe a SGF round-up or something. We'll see how the weeks/months unfold.

I he’s not available, I’d recommend Mike Minotti

 

[Charamiwa]

The leak looks rough because it has a very unfinished UI, no 2D art for characters, basically no background to speak of... It's just a very early build with no polish. If it's real, it'll be cool to compare with the finished product, which I assume will look very different.

 

[JorgenRaft]

tbf you shouldn't expect them to.Sonys been shifting towards these story focused "cinematic" games that are essentially interactive action movies since the late ps3 era.Though even then theres a few exceptions with first party sony titles like spiderman here and there.
Meanwhile nintendo has mostly just been doing their own thing.
Part of the issue though if you consider it one is that these same massive cinematic games also need to sell extraordinarily well just to make any sort of profit at all.

Which they typically do. Not everything has to sell Mario Kart or GTA level sales to make a profit. Just like Nintendo’s more niche series like Xenoblade are okay selling 1-2 mill despite being one of their larger scale franchises.

you do know that im not just talking about financials right. cuz if you just look at the financials everything is rosy and good and there are no problems in Gaming Land

You’re talking about sustainability which would naturally include financials so yes.

Overall point is I’m saying is some series like FE and Pokémon make some visually lackluster games despite large overall success while games on the same system published by Nintendo look good. But they still sell well so it’s not like it’s something they’re pressured to change, sadly, anyways.