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StarTopic Mario Kart 8 Deluxe – Booster Course Pass |ST| Doubled Dash!! [WAVE 6 AVAILABLE NOW]

What is your favorite course in Wave 6?

  • Rome Avanti

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • DK Mountain

    Votes: 7 14.6%

  • Daisy Circuit

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Piranha Plant Cove

    Votes: 3 6.3%

  • Madrid Drive

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Rosalina's Ice World

    Votes: 7 14.6%

  • SNES Bowser Castle 3

    Votes: 11 22.9%

  • Wii Rainbow Road

    Votes: 18 37.5%
  • Total voters
    48
Reader mode
Phendrift said:
What are the remaining course prefixes again? Like the number from each game that’s left?
Click to expand...
SNES x1 (???)
GBA x2 (??? / Sunset Wilds)
GCN x4 (Waluigi Stadium / ??? / ??? / ???)
DS x1 (???)
Wii x3 (DK Summit / Koopa Cape / Rainbow Road)
Tour x8 (Amsterdam / Singapore / Los Angeles / Bangkok / Vancouver / ??? / ??? / ???)
"New" x5

No more N64 or 3DS.
 
MondoMega said:
SNES x1 (???)
GBA x2 (??? / Sunset Wilds)
GCN x4 (Waluigi Stadium / ??? / ??? / ???)
DS x1 (???)
Wii x3 (DK Summit / Koopa Cape / Rainbow Road)
Tour x8 (Amsterdam / Singapore / Los Angeles / Bangkok / Vancouver / ??? / ??? / ???)
"New" x5

No more N64 or 3DS.
Click to expand...
I know it's not technically a datamine, but the person who leaked Wave 2 and 3 said that Airship Fortress is in the Fruit Cup. So that's the last DS track.
 
MondoMega said:
SNES x1 (???)
GBA x2 (??? / Sunset Wilds)
GCN x4 (Waluigi Stadium / ??? / ??? / ???)
DS x1 (???)
Wii x3 (DK Summit / Koopa Cape / Rainbow Road)
Tour x8 (Amsterdam / Singapore / Los Angeles / Bangkok / Vancouver / ??? / ??? / ???)
"New" x5

No more N64 or 3DS.
Click to expand...
Thank you!!

How do we know the specific Wii tracks, Waluigi Stadium and Sunset Wilds? Kinda behind on the speculation game here
 
Phendrift said:
Thank you!!

How do we know the specific Wii tracks, Waluigi Stadium and Sunset Wilds? Kinda behind on the speculation game here
Click to expand...
When Wave 1 released a version of the main key art including tracks from future waves was left in the files. These include DK Summit, Koopa Cape (before it debuted in Tour), Sunset Wilds, Waluigi Stadium (still not in Tour), the remaining cities, and a lot that already showed up in Waves 2 and 3.

Then when Wave 2 released they left short snippets of music tracks for certain courses in Wave 3 and beyond in the files, including the cities, Waluigi Stadium and Sunset Wilds. Through this we know Waluigi Stadium was originally planned for Wave 3, but was swapped out for Maple Treeway eventually (which was originally in Wave 6). Even in the final update they did not rename any of the files, so Maple Treeway is course 62 (first number = wave, second number = course in wave) while there is currently no course 36 (Waluigi Stadum per the music leak and earlier prefixes) present.

As for Wii Rainbow Road, it's a bit more on the speculatory side, but the last course in the last cup (Spiny Cup) is a Wii track (you clearly know about the prefixes so I won't explain those), and a few months ago the first assets for Wii Rainbow Road were datamined from Tour, so we know it's in the pipeline for that game.
 
SirShorse said:
If this DK track with a Cannon doesn't give us DK Mountain, at least give me Wario Colosseum Nintendo
Click to expand...
I think we have a shot at both Mountain and Summit making it; they were both in Wii after all. Tour's version of DK Mountain is a lot more impressive than Dino Dino Jungle too; though I guess that's the difference three years of work on Tour's style makes.
 
MondoMega said:
I think we have a shot at both Mountain and Summit making it; they were both in Wii after all. Tour's version of DK Mountain is a lot more impressive than Dino Dino Jungle too; though I guess that's the difference three years of work on Tour's style makes.
Click to expand...
Just watched gameplay of DK Mountain, Dino Dino Jungle (and Daisy Cruiser for funsies) in Tour for the first time and yeah you can definitely see DDJ is from the early days of Tour.
I do like what they did with Daisy Cruiser, instead of having like a basement or something having it be an underwater section, would be really cool for BCP! As most say, it's probably Waluigi Stadium, Daisy Cruiser, Mushroom City/Bridge and DK Mountain. Although if it's not going to be DK Mountain and we're only getting DK Summit from Wii, what track would take it's place? AFAIK Daisy Cruiser isn't really confirmed yet like WS and MC/MB.
 
SirShorse said:
Just watched gameplay of DK Mountain, Dino Dino Jungle (and Daisy Cruiser for funsies) in Tour for the first time and yeah you can definitely see DDJ is from the early days of Tour.
I do like what they did with Daisy Cruiser, instead of having like a basement or something having it be an underwater section, would be really cool for BCP! As most say, it's probably Waluigi Stadium, Daisy Cruiser, Mushroom City/Bridge and DK Mountain. Although if it's not going to be DK Mountain and we're only getting DK Summit from Wii, what track would take it's place? AFAIK Daisy Cruiser isn't really confirmed yet like WS and MC/MB.
Click to expand...
The underwater segments of Daisy Cruiser were introduced in 7 but yeah, Tour retained them. Nothing has explicitly confirmed or leaked that Daisy Cruiser is coming to 8DX, but it seems like the easiest bet of the GameCube bunch by a long shot (outside of Waluigi Stadium). Mushroom Bridge/City have nothing concrete either.

It's easy to imagine Daisy Cruiser having a bit of a route change like Kalamari Desert and Peach Gardens too; the variants of the course have routes that take you to the roof of the ship, which was totally inaccessible previously.
 
Wii Rainbow Road prayer circle

tumblr_pnkkz1GkYl1s66kreo2_1280.gifv
 
So we are getting Wii Rainbow Road in the BCP.

I'm actually very curious how that will transfer to Tour -> MK8D.
 
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MondoMega said:
Would be nice if N64, DS and 3DS had a few more each but i’m not too bothered with SNES having the lowest count. The courses from that game aren’t particularly great, and by the end of the DLC all but one of the course themes from that game will likely be appropriately covered:

Mario Circuit - SNES Mario Circuit 3
Donut Plains - SNES Donut Plains 3
Choco Island - N64 Choco Mountain
Bowser Castle - ???
Ghost Valley - GBA Boo Lake
Koopa Beach - ???
Vanilla Lake - GBA Snow Land
Rainbow Road - SNES Rainbow Road

I expect the last SNES course to be a Bowser Castle and if it isn’t the last GBA course will be. Personally hope for SNES Bowser Castle 2 and GBA Riverside Park myself.
Click to expand...
Thats a cool way of thinking! I would have like if we algo get N64 Koopa Troopa Beach and Bowser Castle + maybe DS Rainbow Road because well, no one can’t say no to a RR :) .

I want last GBA track to be Lakeside Park. Agree on a Bowser Castle as last SNES track.
 
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MondoMega said:
It's easy to imagine Daisy Cruiser having a bit of a route change like Kalamari Desert and Peach Gardens too; the variants of the course have routes that take you to the roof of the ship, which was totally inaccessible previously.
Click to expand...
I'm a bit more skeptical about that, mostly because Coconut Mall takes you down onto the beach in Tour, something completely absent from 8. That could maybe be chalked up to Coconut Mall coming in Wave 1, but considering how short the roof segment of Daisy Cruiser is, I doubt they make that it's own separate roof. Maybe an alternate path on lap 3 or something at best.
 
0
MondoMega said:
When Wave 1 released a version of the main key art including tracks from future waves was left in the files. These include DK Summit, Koopa Cape (before it debuted in Tour), Sunset Wilds, Waluigi Stadium (still not in Tour), the remaining cities, and a lot that already showed up in Waves 2 and 3.

Then when Wave 2 released they left short snippets of music tracks for certain courses in Wave 3 and beyond in the files, including the cities, Waluigi Stadium and Sunset Wilds. Through this we know Waluigi Stadium was originally planned for Wave 3, but was swapped out for Maple Treeway eventually (which was originally in Wave 6). Even in the final update they did not rename any of the files, so Maple Treeway is course 62 (first number = wave, second number = course in wave) while there is currently no course 36 (Waluigi Stadum per the music leak and earlier prefixes) present.

As for Wii Rainbow Road, it's a bit more on the speculatory side, but the last course in the last cup (Spiny Cup) is a Wii track (you clearly know about the prefixes so I won't explain those), and a few months ago the first assets for Wii Rainbow Road were datamined from Tour, so we know it's in the pipeline for that game.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the breakdown Mondo!!
 
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So, uh. Confession Time.

...I still haven't played Wave 3 yet! So many things have taken up my time. There was Big Run this weekend, and then other games came up to play first that were higher priority. That's the thing with DLC drops - sometimes they hold my attention less! I'm hoping to finally get to it today, though. I'm super happy that the reception has been strong! Seems that the rough patch with Wave 1 was indeed just a rough patch.
 
Jesus Christ that 200CC Alpine Pass/Rock Rock Mountain staff ghost makes me want to throw my switch out of the window. I've got within a hundredth of a second of winning.
 
0
totofogo said:
I was exhausted last night and squeezed in a run of each cup before falling asleep on the couch. I scribbled down my thoughts as I did it in a sleepy state tho, tldr: not very impressed but perhaps when I return in handheld mode OLED it'll fare better. Headphones will also probably rly help bc music is important here.

London Loop 3/5
hm everything is really weirdly scaled, i feel tiny
that's why they call it a london fog eh
this do be feeling like a mod

I want a Pokémon course

Boo Lake 3/5
well done but over too fast!
that mansion gives me NLG LM vibes
wooden bushes underwater is laaaaazy

Rock Rock Mountain 3/5
looks like what I expected nintendo in HD to be back before the Wii U when they proved me wrong
feels been there done that already in this game, but better
glad they used anti-grav in the final part

Maple Treeway 2/5
deserved better than good enough.
blocky trees. mismatched textures.
had a glitch on the curved wall.
bleh, I really wanted to like this

Berlin Byways 4/5
Ok best so far maybe
it’s cute but the character scaling lol
massive bike next to tiny cars on the road why
feels like mod

Always forget there’s no diddy kong
Maybe this will better handheld

Peach Gardens 4/5
Ooh this one is nice except for the Mario hedge model looking soul less
Spicy lap swap me likey
Nostalgic and warm

Merry Mountain 4/5
heck yea I liked it ho ho ho
dunno that's it

Rainbow Road 3DS 4/5
fun fun.
pretty track itself (like the rainbow part) but the details could have been better + more cohesive
some stuff (eg. the jump pads) felt like a fan mod
zero grav on moon is mwah
fell off most here this is def the hardest boo lake people wyd
Click to expand...
Ok I replayed wave 2 just now and the propeller cup just can’t be beat. It’s got preferred versions of comparable tacks for me.

Syndey > Berlin> London
Snow Land > Boo Lake
Mushroom Gorge > Maple Treeway (tho this really shouldn’t have been the case, smh)
Sky-High Sundae > Merry Mountain

Overall I’m probably sitting at Wave 2 > Wave 3 > Wave 1

more interesting would be track rankings, but I’ll save that till we’re done with all 6 waves lol
 
0
I finally played the new courses.

Wave 3 good.

I need to play the courses again a few times, though I can comfortably say that this one is better than Wave 1. I also replayed Wave 2 and found that pretty comfortable, so I need some time for it to simmer in my head. But I can't really name a bad track among the bunch. Music is also killer, but I need to hear it on its own to really confirm my feelings.
 
Gonna update my ranking ever so slightly, and talk about my (mostly) final thoughts about the wave 3 tracks. Given that the city tracks from the first two waves have all dropped like rocks in my rankings over time, I'm expecting London and Berlin to do the same, although I'm not really sure where they'll end up. Guess I'll find out in three months time.

S TIER (Top 10 track in the game)
  • 3DS Rainbow Road still reigns supreme. I have a few minor quibbles with the textures: the planets don't really look all that great, and I wish the jumps also had the beautiful rainbow texture instead of just being a flat grey. I think I also prefer the original music ever so slightly, although the new remix is hardly bad either. It's just different. Regardless, it's still the best track in the series and now in the game, so I'm content with what I can get.
  • Wii Maple Treeway is my second favorite track in the series, and it thankfully retains that honor in 8D. Similar to 3DS Rainbow Road, I have some minor texture quibbles, but the track still looks lovely overall. Losing the Wiggler bounce is unfortunate, but the spectacular presentation and improved track geometry helps make up for that. The remix is absolutely wonderful too, I'm a big fan.
  • DS Waluigi Pinball
A TIER (Great tracks)
  • Ninja Hideaway
  • Tour Berlin Byways is currently my top Tour track, nitros aside. There's just so much going on here: the train station, some tight and uncomfortable turns, traffic, medians, the lap crossover (which has screwed me and others over multiple times, which is very much a good thing), and the whomps help propel this track to the top spot. The remix also goes ridiculously hard, I seriously cannot gush enough about this wave's music.
  • DS Shroom Ridge
  • Wii Mushroom Gorge
  • DS Peach Gardens has a lovely presentation to it: replacing the flat hedges with the topiaries was a genius decision, and the texture work here is wonderful. Beautiful music too. The reverse final lap is also a very pleasant surprise; gliding over the topiaries is so damn cool. Only real complaint is that I never really loved the original track, so the core design isn't the greatest still, but it's a phenomenal remake that really pushes it to its limits.
  • Tour London Loop will probably drop the most out of all these tracks over time, but as it stands right now, I really love the layout. Each route has some really satisfying turns and obstacles, with the chain chomp gimmick just being flat out adorable. Putting one in the river was completely unnecessary, and yet they did it anyway, and I love this track for it. The fog effect is also really cool, and it disguises the ugly buildings much better than any of the other Tour tracks do. Feels like the highest quality Tour track we've gotten yet, even if the underlying ideas really aren't that interesting.
  • Wii Coconut Mall
  • N64 Choco Mountain
B TIER (Good tracks)
  • Merry Mountain is a nice little track. The theming is quite fun, and I absolutely love how it looks. My main problem here is that the layout just isn't all that interesting; the downhill on the first lap in particular is a complete snore. It's never egregiously bad though, and everything else here is quite nice, so it still remains relatively high.
  • GBA Snow Land
  • Tour Sydney Sprint
  • N64 Kalimari Desert
  • 3DS Rock Rock Mountain is solid. I think a big reason why I liked it so much on the 3DS was due to how novel the gliding was at the time; the ability to fly with that degree of freedom on such a small console was really cool. That novelty is lost a bit here, so the track has to instead rely on its layout and other ideas, which I don't really find that interesting. The gliding is still cool, don't get me wrong, but the only way to really wow me with a big gliding section now is to crank up the visuals to the max or introduce some more variety into the gliding section itself. 3DS Maka Wuhu does both, which only makes me wish we got that track instead. Oh well, this track is still good, so I won't complain too much.
  • Tour New York Minute
  • GBA Sky Garden
  • GBA Boo Lake is a fantastic remake of a rather boring track. There just wasn't much to work with here; credit to the devs for getting the as much out of this track as possible, but there's only so much they could do. The underwater antigravity section is obviously the highlight here, and it is quite a bit of fun, but the underlying layout holds this one back.
  • Sky-High Sundae
C Tier (Okay tracks)
  • 3DS Toad Circuit
  • SNES Mario Circuit 3
  • Tour Paris Promenade
D Tier (Bad tracks)
  • Tour Tokyo Blur
Overall, Wave 3 was a huge success. It's gonna be real hard for Nintendo to top this one in the future; if they do, it's gonna be through the Tour and the nitro tracks, rather than the retros. Nintendo's already exhausted so many of my favorites, so there's not much left for them to pull from to really wow me in that area.
 
Last edited:
So about that supposed "new character datamine" that happened a while ago with I think, was it the Rival Data or something being changed, is there any merit to that? Or is it a nothing burger, and we shouldn't expect anything of the sort?
 
SirShorse said:
So about that supposed "new character datamine" that happened a while ago with I think, was it the Rival Data or something being changed, is there any merit to that? Or is it a nothing burger, and we shouldn't expect anything of the sort?
Click to expand...
It was probably a bug. It was fixed in the latest update.
 
Magic-Man said:
It was probably a bug. It was fixed in the latest update.
Click to expand...
But the thing is, they added additional rival slots that go unused too that, to my knowledge, still exist in the code. The Mario and Peach variation rival issue was patched though.
 
0
Thunder84 said:
S TIER (Top 10 track in the game)
  • 3DS Rainbow Road still reigns supreme. I have a few minor quibbles with the textures: the planets don't really look all that great, and I wish the jumps also had the beautiful rainbow texture instead of just being a flat grey. I think I also prefer the original music ever so slightly, although the new remix is hardly bad either. It's just different. Regardless, it's still the best track in the series and now in the game, so I'm content with what I can get.
  • Wii Maple Treeway is my second favorite track in the series, and it thankfully retains that honor in 8D. Similar to 3DS Rainbow Road, I have some minor texture quibbles, but the track still looks lovely overall. Losing the Wiggler bounce is unfortunate, but the spectacular presentation and improved track geometry helps make up for that. The remix is absolutely wonderful too, I'm a big fan.
  • DS Waluigi Pinball
A TIER (Great tracks)
  • Ninja Hideaway
  • Tour Berlin Byways is currently my top Tour track, nitros aside. There's just so much going on here: the train station, some tight and uncomfortable turns, traffic, medians, the lap crossover (which has screwed me and others over multiple times, which is very much a good thing), and the whomps help propel this track to the top spot. The remix also goes ridiculously hard, I seriously cannot gush enough about this wave's music.
  • DS Shroom Ridge
  • Wii Mushroom Gorge
  • DS Peach Gardens has a lovely presentation to it: replacing the flat hedges with the topiaries was a genius decision, and the texture work here is wonderful. Beautiful music too. The reverse final lap is also a very pleasant surprise; gliding over the topiaries is so damn cool. Only real complaint is that I never really loved the original track, so the core design isn't the greatest still, but it's a phenomenal remake that really pushes it to its limits.
  • Tour London Loop will probably drop the most out of all these tracks over time, but as it stands right now, I really love the layout. Each route has some really satisfying turns and obstacles, with the chain chomp gimmick just being flat out adorable. Putting one in the river was completely unnecessary, and yet they did it anyway, and I love this track for it. The fog effect is also really cool, and it disguises the ugly buildings much better than any of the other Tour tracks do. Feels like the highest quality Tour track we've gotten yet, even if the underlying ideas really aren't that interesting.
  • Wii Coconut Mall
  • N64 Choco Mountain
B TIER (Good tracks)
  • Merry Mountain is a nice little track. The theming is quite fun, and I absolutely love how it looks. My main problem here is that the layout just isn't all that interesting; the downhill on the first lap in particular is a complete snore. It's never egregiously bad though, and everything else here is quite nice, so it still remains relatively high.
  • GBA Snow Land
  • Tour Sydney Sprint
  • N64 Kalimari Desert
  • 3DS Rock Rock Mountain is solid. I think a big reason why I liked it so much on the 3DS was due to how novel the gliding was at the time; the ability to fly with that degree of freedom on such a small console was really cool. That novelty is lost a bit here, so the track has to instead rely on its layout and other ideas, which I don't really find that interesting. The gliding is still cool, don't get me wrong, but the only way to really wow me with a big gliding section now is to crank up the visuals to the max or introduce some more variety into the gliding section itself. 3DS Maka Wuhu does both, which only makes me wish we got that track instead. Oh well, this track is still good, so I won't complain too much.
  • Tour New York Minute
  • GBA Sky Garden
  • GBA Boo Lake is a fantastic remake of a rather boring track. There just wasn't much to work with here; credit to the devs for getting the as much out of this track as possible, but there's only so much they could do. The underwater antigravity section is obviously the highlight here, and it is quite a bit of fun, but the underlying layout holds this one back.
  • Sky-High Sundae
C Tier (Okay tracks)
  • 3DS Toad Circuit
  • SNES Mario Circuit 3
  • Tour Paris Promenade
D Tier (Bad tracks)
  • Tour Tokyo Blur
Overall, Wave 3 was a huge success. It's gonna be real hard for Nintendo to top this one in the future; if they do, it's gonna be through the Tour and the nitro tracks, rather than the retros. Nintendo's already exhausted so many of my favorites, so there's not much left for them to pull from to really wow me in that area.
Click to expand...
fyi your bullets aren’t readable on dark mode!
 
How much Mario Kart did y’all play this year? According to the Nintendo year in review, Mario Kart 8 was my number 1 game this year at 195 days and 195 hours. Definitely over 200 for both if December was included :) It beat out Xenoblade 3 at 162 hours and was double my entire time gaming on PlaySation at 89 hours lol. I did replay Mario Kart 1-7 this year too after the Booster Course Pass was announced which I don’t have stats on lol.
 
Gave it some thought, here's my current tier list for 2022's BCP

1Xhl251.png
 
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0
xghost777 said:
How much Mario Kart did y’all play this year? According to the Nintendo year in review, Mario Kart 8 was my number 1 game this year at 195 days and 195 hours. Definitely over 200 for both if December was included :) It beat out Xenoblade 3 at 162 hours and was double my entire time gaming on PlaySation at 89 hours lol. I did replay Mario Kart 1-7 this year too after the Booster Course Pass was announced which I don’t have stats on lol.
Click to expand...
I didn't actually play too much of it! I got the gold trophies in 150, Mirror, and 200, did a couple of time trials, and that was about it, actually! This was a Splatoon and Pokémon year for me, the big multiplayer game and the two RPGs that I care about. But Mario Kart will always be there for me, and I got 2023 for more Mario Kart action.
 



Here is the in game notification advertising Merry Mountain and the BCP in Tour. I recall someone saying that the ‘new’ courses are advertised a week later in Tour (Ninja Hideaway, Sky-High Sundae, now Merry Mountain) after a wave releases. Seems like a precedent for the next three waves. :)
 
stingylettuce said:



Here is the in game notification advertising Merry Mountain and the BCP in Tour. I recall someone saying that the ‘new’ courses are advertised a week later in Tour (Ninja Hideaway, Sky-High Sundae, now Merry Mountain) after a wave releases. Seems like a precedent for the next three waves. :)
Click to expand...

The current Tour schedule almost certainly runs the Yoshi Tour from 4/5 to 4/18.

If the speculation is correct that the next nitro track will be Yoshi themed, and that it will debut in the Yoshi Tour, then that places Wave 4 in the final week of March.
 
IDs paint an interesting picture this time. It’s a fierce competition between Athens and whatever mobOR is for the first new city of 2023; the latter having the lead in ID count. Expect to see one show up in the Tour after New Years (Asia cities Tour).
 
I think I've hit my limit in MK online at around 9000 points. I can't consistently gain point anymore, I got up very slowly and then I get last place in one race and lose everything lol

It was good to compete while I could.
 
0
I just hope the next Mario Kart has a Story/Adventure Mode.
World Map with a long stretch of 'stages' for Mario, ranging from races with gimmicks (first Stage would be friendly race with Peach and like, 8 Toads, then after story thing happens you start having races against Bowser goons and such), to challenges, to Bosses, etc.
And along the straight road you get side missions where you play as other characters, like Luigi doing Scary-themed tracks, and such.
It doesn't have to be HUGE, but something like this would be super fun as a change of pace
...
Anyways still not actually played any DLC track. But I will very soon! And then I will have loads of new ones to play at the same time, which should be fun ^^
 
It's really nice that we finally have some tracks that are perfect for 200cc (the city tracks). The wide roads are great for long drifts and speed.
 
Magic-Man said:
It's really nice that we finally have some tracks that are perfect for 200cc (the city tracks). The wide roads are great for long drifts and speed.
Click to expand...
That is probably one of the things I am most excited for with the next Mario Kart game. Nintendo will no doubt be designing more tracks for 200cc.
 
0
MondoMega said:
As for Wii Rainbow Road, it's a bit more on the speculatory side, but the last course in the last cup (Spiny Cup) is a Wii track (you clearly know about the prefixes so I won't explain those), and a few months ago the first assets for Wii Rainbow Road were datamined from Tour, so we know it's in the pipeline for that game.
Click to expand...
200w.gif


Worst rainbow road istg
 
1. 3DS Rainbow Road
2. DS Rainbow Road
3. N64 Rainbow Road
4. GBA Rainbow Road
5. SNES Rainbow Road
6. Wii Rainbow Road
7. WiiU Rainbow Road
8. GC Rainbow Road
 
0
Best to worst

3DS
GCN
SNES
Wii
GBA
N64
Wii U
DS

3DS is peak let's be real, and DS... certainly exists... and even then I still forget it, because it's so forgettable and not really all that unique with the singular exception being the loop de loop
 
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