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TV Hollywood writers and studios reach deadline without agreement; writers strike imminent (UPDATE: writers and actors both reach agreements)

Shroudednightmare said:
Fuck its ended, well i enjoyed the strike going on while it lasted and i hope more strikes are to come in the future tbh, since hollywood deserves all the shit they get.
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Don't worry, the actors still have their contract that needs a fair deal and will probably be another extended negotiation, not to mention IATSE, Animation Guild (in which there are severely undervalued writers who will be pushing for a significant improvement in terms), and Teamsters who all have deals coming up in 2024 and could very well turn into strikes
 
I think the writers going first is good because the actors have more leverage. Hopefully the actors get a good deal soon.
 
Mekanos said:
I think the writers going first is good because the actors have more leverage. Hopefully the actors get a good deal soon.
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I think the actors will follow fairly quickly, the writers are arguably the hardball, most leftwing union who the studios undervalue the most, so if the writers got a good deal (which it's likely they did, but we'll see later this week), then I can't see the actors not being followed up soon especially given the studios basically revealing that they couldn't afford to lose another quarter of content. Next year's ones will be able to build off the success hopefully, and I think there is now a lot of solidarity between unions and it will be harder for the studios (there's also upcoming British writers and actors negotiations which will be interesting given how much content is filmed there)
 
aus89 said:
Don't worry, the actors still have their contract that needs a fair deal and will probably be another extended negotiation, not to mention IATSE, Animation Guild (in which there are severely undervalued writers who will be pushing for a significant improvement in terms), and Teamsters who all have deals coming up in 2024 and could very well turn into strikes
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don't forget all the recently unionised VFX People who will probably soon strike too, I feel :'D
 
oomoepoo said:
don't forget all the recently unionised VFX People who will probably soon strike too, I feel :'D
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Warner Bros are also refusing to recognize animation production workers so there’s gonna be a lot of labor relations on the boil for the forseeable future as people begin standing up against the current model of hyper capitalism - SAG likely going to go on strike against video game companies soon too
 
Shroudednightmare said:
Fuck its ended, well i enjoyed the strike going on while it lasted and i hope more strikes are to come in the future tbh, since hollywood deserves all the shit they get.
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...The heck?

You enjoyed people being out of work? You're upset that they actually made a deal? You want more strikes to have to happen? Do you know what a strike is, and what it's purpose is even for?
aus89 said:
Don't worry, the actors still have their contract that needs a fair deal and will probably be another extended negotiation, not to mention IATSE, Animation Guild (in which there are severely undervalued writers who will be pushing for a significant improvement in terms), and Teamsters who all have deals coming up in 2024 and could very well turn into strikes
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aus89 said:
I think the actors will follow fairly quickly, the writers are arguably the hardball, most leftwing union who the studios undervalue the most, so if the writers got a good deal (which it's likely they did, but we'll see later this week), then I can't see the actors not being followed up soon especially given the studios basically revealing that they couldn't afford to lose another quarter of content. Next year's ones will be able to build off the success hopefully, and I think there is now a lot of solidarity between unions and it will be harder for the studios (there's also upcoming British writers and actors negotiations which will be interesting given how much content is filmed there)
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Yeah, here's the problem. People seem to have been using this strike as a proxy for "right/left political wars" as opposed to an actual strike. What did you think was going to happen? That the heroes were going to defeat the great evil and fix Hollywood?

Unions are not funamentally left-wing political groups. If anything, they're closer to being right-wing in an economic sense. It's something of a historical fluke that they're associated with the left/progressive side of things. Unions exist to give employees bargaining power for their labor by fixing the natural monosopies that naturally occur in large scale industry. The purpose of unions and strikes is to negotiate fair contracts that properly reflect the value of their work, and to ensure fair working conditions. That's it.

And yes, I'm being mean. But some of the commends I've been seeing are just so selfish that they're....offensive.
 
Narroo said:
...The heck?

You enjoyed people being out of work? You're upset that they actually made a deal? You want more strikes to have to happen? Do you know what a strike is, and what it's purpose is even for?


Yeah, here's the problem. People seem to have been using this strike as a proxy for "right/left political wars" as opposed to an actual strike. What did you think was going to happen? That the heroes were going to defeat the great evil and fix Hollywood?

Unions are not funamentally left-wing political groups. If anything, they're closer to being right-wing in an economic sense. It's something of a historical fluke that they're associated with the left/progressive side of things. Unions exist to give employees bargaining power for their labor by fixing the natural monosopies that naturally occur in large scale industry. The purpose of unions and strikes is to negotiate fair contracts that properly reflect the value of their work, and to ensure fair working conditions. That's it.

And yes, I'm being mean. But some of the commends I've been seeing are just so selfish that they're....offensive.
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I agree with you that unions are not inherently political and are apolitical (and that is why I have no issue with SAG-AFTRA for example, when they wound back vaccine mandates on set etc, bc even if I disagree/Fran Drescher is an anti-vaxxer, the union works for all their members and they don't think their members should be out of work, especially once restrictions lifted in other areas, so it is correct for a union to do that in a sense bc they were for all their workers, even the ones they might disagree with sometimes) - and the strike's purpose is pretty clearly nothing to do with right or left, nor did i say that it was.

My point is that the writers guild are one of the more progressive unions that the studios could have made an enemy of by suggesting they were going to starve them out and drive them from their homes vs say the Director's Guild and their lightweight negotiations with the studios that undercut the other unions bargaining power who are much more friendly to the executives - but I would say collective bargaining and the workforce having power in unity against their employers is certainly a left wing thing. The fact that unions have become politicised as a right v left issue is down to the right wing seeking to politicise these things and I don't think the guild or writers particularly politicised it.

None of the unions wanted anyone to be out of work, or to destroy the industry and for anyone to suggest otherwise is hugely offensive - the only people keeping people out of work were the AMPTP attempting to break the unions and drag things out. and yeah I've seen plenty of these comments around here even saying "movies are shit, writers are shit, i hope they all go out of business" - meanwhile, the deal done here on AI is actually potentially really important for other workforces being replaced by AI moving forward if they have negotiated a solid protection, as the lawsuits and union wins on the issue add up as an example of the ramifications what may seem like a "dumb Hollywood strike" can have on "regular jobs" that people think are more important.
 
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Narroo said:
...The heck?

You enjoyed people being out of work? You're upset that they actually made a deal? You want more strikes to have to happen? Do you know what a strike is, and what it's purpose is even for?


Yeah, here's the problem. People seem to have been using this strike as a proxy for "right/left political wars" as opposed to an actual strike. What did you think was going to happen? That the heroes were going to defeat the great evil and fix Hollywood?

Unions are not funamentally left-wing political groups. If anything, they're closer to being right-wing in an economic sense. It's something of a historical fluke that they're associated with the left/progressive side of things. Unions exist to give employees bargaining power for their labor by fixing the natural monosopies that naturally occur in large scale industry. The purpose of unions and strikes is to negotiate fair contracts that properly reflect the value of their work, and to ensure fair working conditions. That's it.

And yes, I'm being mean. But some of the commends I've been seeing are just so selfish that they're....offensive.
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I still remember people being ANGRY that UPS and it's union made a deal to avert a strike. I feel like some people just want unions to uh....end capitalism or something
 
Lugia667 said:
I still remember people being ANGRY that UPS and it's union made a deal to avert a strike. I feel like some people just want unions to uh....end capitalism or something
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And it’s always people who aren’t part of the union that made a deal that are the angriest.
 
Narroo said:
Unions are not funamentally left-wing political groups. If anything, they're closer to being right-wing in an economic sense. It's something of a historical fluke that they're associated with the left/progressive side of things. Unions exist to give employees bargaining power for their labor by fixing the natural monosopies that naturally occur in large scale industry. The purpose of unions and strikes is to negotiate fair contracts that properly reflect the value of their work, and to ensure fair working conditions. That's it.
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Right-wingers are consistently the groups that most commonly crack down on unions, organizing, and labor. Saying they're not "fundamentally" left-wing doesn't really matter when in history they have been used to oppose right-wing reforms.

Lugia667 said:
I still remember people being ANGRY that UPS and it's union made a deal to avert a strike. I feel like some people just want unions to uh....end capitalism or something
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I really don't think more than a small number of people were upset the UPS averted a strike. Let's not use unions and labor organizing as a chance to punch left.
 
Lugia667 said:
I still remember people being ANGRY that UPS and it's union made a deal to avert a strike. I feel like some people just want unions to uh....end capitalism or something
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Normally I’d agree but if they didn’t get AI banned it’s gonna be really hard to spin this as not either a complete fold or that your average person who supported them was cynically taken a bit for a ride. Like you can’t tell everyone that they are fighting for you and your rights not to be replaced by machines and everyone should care about your strike over the existential crisis new tech is posing and then turn around and say better residuals on streaming is the victory we were after all along.

I know your average writer isn’t rich but your average person isn’t going to have Dwayne the Rock Johnson, Drew Carrey and others paying for their food and rent went they have to strike when their job is threatened by AI. I can understand a lot of bitterness and resentment if they couldn’t get it done because what shot do other unions have.

And maybe I’m wrong and they did get AI taken off the table but I just have a feeling they weren’t able to get studios to play ball there and focused mostly on everything else
 
Joy-Boy said:
Frodo saying it's over, it's done...'s over, it's done...
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Ironically enough, Sean Aston (Sam from LotR) is a SAG union member and member of the negotiating committee, so has literally been in the negotiating room on behalf of his fellow actors.

I believe Dom and Elijah were out on the picket line as well. Those hobbits are good, union lads.
 
Expect an avalanche of casting/movie announcements/rescheduling once both strikes are over. It's going to be news avalanche edition once every production gets back running again.
 
entut1 said:
Expect an avalanche of casting/movie announcements/rescheduling once both strikes are over. It's going to be news avalanche edition once every production gets back running again.
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Selfishly, I am looking forward to One Piece season 2 starting production

It helps that apparently it's already written although I'm sure they'll still do touch ups on it
 
chocolate_supra said:
I just want an avalanche of them putting Dune back in its original goddamn slot
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having finally watched Dune Part I recently (it's not perfect, but certainly interesting and very well-made (and gorgeous!)), that would be nice. It was scheduled for one month from now tho, in early November. Assuming SAG has their own deal locked by early October, they'd have to reschedule it in early December to give enough for room for a marketing campaign with promotion from actors to have effect.
 
Yeah Dune isn't coming back this year lol, they're not gonna scramble to get theater screens last minute, they already missed the IMAX window.
 
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chocolate_supra said:
I just want an avalanche of them putting Dune back in its original goddamn slot
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Yeah, there are a lot of movies that were delayed that I'm hoping will still get their moment to shine. I'm especially looking forward to Problemista from Julio Torres, which I think was postponed right near the start of the strike.
 
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Gotta wonder how much bargaining power they have when it comes to videogames. Lots of non-union people working in that industry, I'd wager.
 
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The Writers Won
- Strong protections on AI usage
  • - Better minimums for work across multiple areas of entertainment.
  • - Minimum sized and fully staffed to writers rooms
  • - Streaming Data made avaliable to writers
  • - Minimum hiring terms for writers on longer running shows

The Studios Won
  • - Residuals. Writers technically can get more residuals now, but the terms of residuals are very high (An increase in residuals for streaming shows that are watched by over 20% of subscribers, something not even Last of Us or Stranger Things can hit), it seems like 99% of shows probably wont hit that benchmark. (But on the very off chance they do, writer will get rewarded for it)
  • - The ability to use Single Staffed writers if they so choose
  • - Streaming data kept private to the public (except under specific request from writers who will almost certianly be under NDA)

Overall, this is a great deal. Best case scenario on a lot of issues. Both sides got a lot of what they wanted, neither side got everything, but that was never going to happen. Writers earned a lot of protections and sticking points with this
 
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Mekanos said:
Now let’s see how actor negotiations go. I wonder if we will hear updates on that soon.
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Supposedly they are currently negotiating with the video game studios but yes, expect probably in the next week or so they will be negotiating - very solid deal for the wga and i can see the amptp wanting to get this done quickly
 
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Now that there's some news of the strike ending I've seen opinions pop up online like "Man TV and movies were just getting good again since all the shit writers are out striking." Weren't the TV shows and movies releasing these past 4 months written before the strike even started? Are these people placeboing themselves into watching content they'd hate just to own the writers while in reality they're just supporting them? I can't imagine that line of thinking makes any sense when movies and TV shows take awhile to produce, unless it's like a weekly soap opera or something.
 
carbvan said:
Now that there's some news of the strike ending I've seen opinions pop up online like "Man TV and movies were just getting good again since all the shit writers are out striking." Weren't the TV shows and movies releasing these past 4 months written before the strike even started? Are these people placeboing themselves into watching content they'd hate just to own the writers while in reality they're just supporting them? I can't imagine that line of thinking makes any sense when movies and TV shows take awhile to produce, unless it's like a weekly soap opera or something.
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Yes, they're just talking shit that they know nothing about. Typical riffraff nonsense.
 
Joy-Boy said:
The Writers Won
- Strong protections on AI usage
  • - Better minimums for work across multiple areas of entertainment.
  • - Minimum sized and fully staffed to writers rooms
  • - Streaming Data made avaliable to writers
  • - Minimum hiring terms for writers on longer running shows

The Studios Won
  • - Residuals. Writers technically can get more residuals now, but the terms of residuals are very high (An increase in residuals for streaming shows that are watched by over 20% of subscribers, something not even Last of Us or Stranger Things can hit), it seems like 99% of shows probably wont hit that benchmark. (But on the very off chance they do, writer will get rewarded for it)
  • - The ability to use Single Staffed writers if they so choose
  • - Streaming data kept private to the public (except under specific request from writers who will almost certianly be under NDA)

Overall, this is a great deal. Best case scenario on a lot of issues. Both sides got a lot of what they wanted, neither side got everything, but that was never going to happen. Writers earned a lot of protections and sticking points with this
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It's actually 20% of domestic suscribers over the first 90 days for residuals, which is an easier target to hit. I also think making streaming data public was never what was asked for. Actually the writers got nearly everything they asked for. It's the studios in this case that actually lost almost everything. This is very close to the ideal deal for the WGA.
 
entut1 said:
It's actually 20% of domestic suscribers over the first 90 days for residuals, which is an easier target to hit. I also think making streaming data public was never what was asked for. Actually the writers got nearly everything they asked for. It's the studios in this case that actually lost almost everything. This is very close to the ideal deal for the WGA.
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Studios actually haven't lost too much on this deal, in fact the final deal is nearly identical to the proposal they themselves presented a few weeks ago. The 20% domestic viewership requirement is easier to hit, but still a really high barrier that we'll likely only see the biggest breakout shows see the fruits from.

Edit:

WGA got their biggest wins on what they were asking for, but the studios didnt really lose on too much except AI (Which is for the best), which really just means it was a great deal all around, when the biggest dealbreaker was AI, keeping streaming data private, and negotiating residuals. Studios had to give more consessions, but that was always going to happen.

If anyone's curious, here's a very informative video breaking down each talking point, comparing what the WGA proposed, the Studios offered, and the final deal compared to both.
 
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Joy-Boy said:
Studios actually haven't lost too much on this deal, in fact the final deal is nearly identical to the proposal they themselves presented a few weeks ago. The 20% domestic viewership requirement is easier to hit, but still a really high barrier that we'll only see the biggest breakout shows see the fruits from.

WGA got their biggest wins on what they were asking for, but the studios didnt really lose on anything except AI (Which is for the best), which really just means it was a great deal all around
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Amazing that a 146 day strike ended with "both sides mostly got what they wanted anyway"

Seems like we coulda skipped the whole "work stoppage for months, executives talking about letting everyone go hungry/homeless" bit if one side had just decided to be a bit less of a jerk 😑
 
chocolate_supra said:
Amazing that a 146 day strike ended with "both sides mostly got what they wanted anyway"

Seems like we coulda skipped the whole "work stoppage for months, executives talking about letting everyone go hungry/homeless" bit if one side had just decided to be a bit less of a jerk 😑
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Perfect example: The directors guild were due to strike, but the difference was they had been negotiating with the studios for months before the deadline and hammered out a deal before a strike was even neccisary. Whole situation was comepletly avoidable, and honestly the WGA/SAG isnt totally blameless either, they only stared negotiating 2 weeks before the deadline. It took the directors the better part of a year!

The only reason the strike resolved now is that both sides got together, sat their butts down, and actually talked. That was not the case for the vast duarion of this strike. Out of the 146 days this strike went on....they only met for 9 days total....5 of which were the past few straight in a row when the CEOs actually got involved, and look what happened, a deal was reached right then and there.

Really unfortunate that this needed to happen at all, but atleast the end result was a good deal for the writers
 
Joy-Boy said:
Perfect example: The directors guild were due to strike, but the difference was they had been negotiating with the studios for months before the deadline and hammered out a deal before a strike was even neccisary. Whole situation was comepletly avoidable, and honestly the WGA/SAG isnt totally blameless either, they only stared negotiating 2 weeks before the deadline. It took the directors the better part of a year!

The only reason the strike resolved now is that both sides got together, sat their butts down, and actually talked. That was not the case for the vast duarion of this strike. Out of the 146 days this strike went on....they only met for 9 days total....5 of which were the past few straight in a row when the CEOs actually got involved, and look what happened, a deal was reached right then and there.

Really unfortunate that this needed to happen at all, but atleast the end result was a good deal for the writers
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Plus my hope is that the visibility of it influences some of these other pending and ongoing strikes. WGA/SAG have hopefully made it loud and clear that workers won't take this shit anymore.
 
Joy-Boy said:
The only reason the strike resolved now is that both sides got together, sat their butts down, and actually talked. That was not the case for the vast duarion of this strike. Out of the 146 days this strike went on....they only met for 9 days total....5 of which were the past few straight in a row when the CEOs actually got involved, and look what happened, a deal was reached right then and there.

Really unfortunate that this needed to happen at all, but atleast the end result was a good deal for the writers
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Let's be clear though, the studios REFUSED to talk - refusing to counter offers made by the writers in May (all of which were settled to the satisfaction of writers in the final deal), refusing to negotiate with them for months because they wanted to "wait til they started losing their homes and insurance" to bring them back to the table. Before the last round of negotiations, the CEOs got involved multiple times and said striking workers were "unrealistic" and "harming the industry", went into the negotiating room lecturing them and being offended they wouldn't take their horrible offer - it was only in the last few days, when they obviously needed to save the next financial quarter that they got serious and did anything about it - writers and actors have been willing to sit down the whole time - let's be clear about who is to blame here. The Directors took a quick deal that actively harmed the negotiating leverage of writers and actors to get fair conditions and protections, and no they weren't negotiating for months - they were talking for less than a month according to reports, the writer's guild were negotiating and talking with the AMPTP as early as March before going on strike in May.

Worth watching this video with Hasan Piker going through the deal points with WGA negotiating committee member Adam Conover
 
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I guess I worded it badly in that the studios didn't have much to lose in the first place for giving the writers nearly everything they asked for.
 
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