StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[HyruleanKnight]

One of the key things I forgot to add to that list are quick resume features so that your most commonly played games don’t have to be completely restarted.

I don't see why a Quick Resume feature would need to take up a substantial amount of memory allocated to the system. Quick Resume, if I understand it correctly, is simply a memory dump, or Save State as we know in emulators. That memory dump comes from anything that is not in system memory, and is then written onto non-volatile storage. When accessed again, that memory dump is re-written onto non-system RAM and we're off to the races.

On a surface level, Quick Resume is technically possible on the current Switch already. On a more technical level, it wasn't part of the original console design and the internal storage is possibly too slow to make the process seem fast/seamless.

 

[Paxie]

If the Steam Deck didn't exist and galvanize the handheld PC market, I honestly could've seen them doing ports to get some money out of the higher end market they abandoned. The handheld PC market does exist though, so Nintendo would only compete against themselves in the worst possible way.

 

[davec00ke]

If the Steam Deck didn't exist and galvanize the handheld PC market, I honestly could've seen them doing ports to get some money out of the higher end market they abandoned. The handheld PC market does exist though, so Nintendo would only compete against themselves in the worst possible way.

There no money in the high end market just look at Playstations awfull 5% profit margins.

 

[Paxie]

There no money in the high end market just look at Playstations awfull 5% profit margins.

Ports to PC, I should clarify

 

[Atlus]

I don't see why a Quick Resume feature would need to take up a substantial amount of memory allocated to the system. Quick Resume, if I understand it correctly, is simply a memory dump, or Save State as we know in emulators. That memory dump comes from anything that is not in system memory, and is then written onto non-volatile storage. When accessed again, that memory dump is re-written onto non-system RAM and we're off to the races.

On a surface level, Quick Resume is technically possible on the current Switch already. On a more technical level, it wasn't part of the original console design and the internal storage is possibly too slow to make the process seem fast/seamless.

Here’s a quick breakdown of the OS Reservations. On a side note if we want Nintendo’s next console to implement some of these modern day features then we need to allocate appropriate resources.

Series S reserves 2GB
Series X reserves 2.5GB
PS5 reserves 3.5GB

 

[Dekuman]

Panic Button is under 50 Employees per Linkedin, so Shiver isn't a significantly smaller studio, maybe 2/3's Panic's size.
I suspect if Nintendo's plan is to deploy them as a port studio, their job would be less about porting a finished product, but providing support for multiplatform devs for Switch 2 specific pipelines and assets to make sure the Switch port is high quality.

If they go that route, it suggests Nintendo is seriously about getting the right kidn of games to land on their platform performing well and likely ontime as well, not the 1+ year wait for a Switch version to land. But this is purely guesswork on my part. It may end up being just a straightup port studio.

 

[HyruleanKnight]

Here’s a quick breakdown of the OS Reservations. On a side note if we want Nintendo’s next console to implement some of these modern day features then we need to allocate appropriate resources.

Series S reserves 2GB
Series X reserves 2.5GB
PS5 reserves 3.5GB

The figures you listed here are for the entire system, not just Quick Resume which was what I was responding to.

Current Switch OS is extremely barebones compared to PS5/Xbox SS/X, and personally I don't feel like they need to make it anymore complex than it currently is. It's a portable device, it needs to boot up and shut down fast to conserve battery. I vaguely remember something about Nintendo not allowing users to have a custom background for the home menu because it could potentially slow down the boot time.

The other consoles do not have to worry about battery life so they can technically make use of all that extra system memory allocation to do a lot of other stuff, but with the Switch being a portable device the idea is to be as efficient as possible. That includes trimming the fat a.k.a forgoing any feature that is inherently unnecessary, with the lower system memory footprint being a happy coincidence.

 

[Atlus]

The figures you listed here are for the entire system, not just Quick Resume which was what I was responding to.

Current Switch OS is extremely barebones compared to PS5/Xbox SS/X, and personally I don't feel like they need to make it anymore complex than it currently is. It's a portable device, it needs to boot up and shut down fast to conserve battery. I vaguely remember something about Nintendo not allowing users to have a custom background for the home menu because it could potentially slow down the boot time.

The other consoles do not have to worry about battery life so they can technically make use of all that extra system memory allocation to do a lot of other stuff, but with the Switch being a portable device the idea is to be as efficient as possible. That includes trimming the fat a.k.a forgoing any feature that is inherently unnecessary, with the lower system memory footprint being a happy coincidence.

The 3DS had all of these features minus quick resume and was fast with great battery life, while allowing the console to have some personality so people can make it their own. There’s no reason why this new console should be lacking Some of these features.

 

[joveroy]

Grezzo is certainly good, but their production capacity is a bit low. The last game they ported on their own was Link's Awakening.
nintendo need more grezzo.

Grezzo has around the same headcount as Bluepoint.

 

[Individualised]

The 3DS had all of these features minus quick resume and was fast with great battery life, while allowing the console to have some personality so people can make it their own. There’s no reason why this new console should be lacking Some of these features.

The 3DS also had to give up half of its memory in order to do this. Imagine if Switch 2 allocated 6GB of RAM to the OS.

 

[Atlus]

The 3DS also had to give up half of its memory in order to do this.

However with the new hardware the console should be more than capable to add these basic features. We didn’t even have Bluetooth audio features until halfway into the Switch lifecycle. Also the touchscreen is heavily underutilized as well.

 

[NineTailSage]

I have to say though Nintendo buying "Shiver" kind signifies how important they view Switch 2 getting 3rd party ports, (even if they have to publish and supply the development muscle themselves).

This news kind of reminds me of when Sony purchased Nixxes and most people were like who the hell are they...
Fast forward now and that studio is important to Sony putting their games on PC and are great at it.
They aren’t as big of a studio as Nixxes, but definitely have room to grow and it will be interesting in 4yrs time to look back and see what roll they played in the early life of Switch 2.

 

[LoneRanger]

I’m very fine with another barebones OS as I want to plug and play my videogame system as fast as possible.

More RAM for games is better as it easier ti get gen 9 ports.

 

[ertaboy356b]

I wish Saber would request for acquisition too. That's a porting killing spree there.

 

[SwitchEmUp]

This studio has 2 dozen employees and their last effort was the horrible MK1 port lol, let's not get carried away

No, I actually think the MK1 port isn't "horrible". The game didn't even get a port to PS4 or Xbox One. It also can't keep a steady 60fps on Steam Deck either.

The fact that they are able to have the game run at 60fps most of the time during a match on the Switch is nothing short of a massive achievement.

 

[Dekuman]

No, I actually think the MK1 port isn't "horrible". The game didn't even get a port to PS4 or Xbox One. It also can't keep a steady 60fps on Steam Deck either.

The fact that they are able to have the game run at 60fps most of the time during a match on the Switch is nothing short of a massive achievement.

The poster is also factually wrong about which game they worked on last.

 

[Lozjam]

Pretty much! It's basically going to be a souped up Steam Deck with DLSS in portable mode and more or less on-part with the XSS in docked. Anything the Series S can get, the Switch 2 definitely will. This is without touching DLSS and all the techniques that will help it punch above it's weight. It's obviously no PS5 or XBX, but in context to what it is, there aren't really a whole lot of big weaknesses. Developers will have a lot of tools to help tailor games and ports for it and it's absolutely going to get pretty much every 8th gen title and the lion's share of 9th gen games. There will definitely be downgraded ports, but it's less likely to see a Mortal Kombat 1 fiasco on the Switch 2 and the first-party titles are going to look extremely impressive.

I can't wait

It’s hard to say what is going to be a downgrade too…. Will the average person be able to tell between 1440p vs. 4K? What if lighting is far better than XSS, but texture quality is less. I really wonder.

Anything past the XBox Series S (which has 8GB for games) was always gravy to be honest.

A chunk of RAM even higher than the Series S is more than fine.

I just gotta say, Xbox massively fucked up themselves by kneecapping the generation, and by providing a console that would be able to be portable like 4 years later.

I am so extremely glad for that as a Nintendo fan. But Xbox kind of kneecapped the entire generation for itself, and allowed PC handhelds and game consoles like the Switch to eat it's lunch. It's honestly kind of like, if the original XBone had 3 gigabytes of ram and was usurped by the original switch.

 

[Dakhil]

Although not explicitly related to Nintendo and Nvidia, I present the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 (Qualcomm SC8280) dieshot courtesy of Kurnalsalts.

 

[gabeplays]

The Switch is on track of becoming the most popular system in gaming history. It's down to many factors -- not sinking themselves in the console wars, the lack of overly-expensive time-consuming AAA titles, an extremely healthy stream of games to play in part due to how "old" and less expensive it is to make games for it etc -- but as I wrote in another post (https://famiboards.com/threads/futu...staff-posts-before-commenting.55/post-1097169), people just don't care that much for cutting edge graphics and waiting 5 years for a AAA game to finally come out. They want lots of fun games to play, that come out relatively soon and consistently, that aren't too expensive to buy...

Of course, they're playing to the mainstream audience. I don't know if it would be fair to say Sony and Microsoft are catering exclusively to gaming enthusiasts, but there's definitely some truth that the net they're casting just isn't wide enough.

Honestly, if Microsoft was smart, they'd put more into the Series S and make it their primary model instead of the Series X. Keep the XBX as a premium thing, make more AA and smaller titles that are cheaper to make, less time to make, less expensive to buy, and ultimately just as much fun to play. The same advice applies to Sony. Technology moves on, of course, but the AAA market is totally unsustainable and the the constant chase for even higher and higher fidelity has arguably done more harm than good to these two companies. Smaller budgets, creativity, and going multiplatform is how a company thrives in 2024 and not 5-year-long development times, astronomical budgets, and making your games exclusive to one console (and then when the game inevitably doesn't perform to sky-high expectations, they shut down the studio...).

 

[gabeplays]

It’s hard to say what is going to be a downgrade too…. Will the average person be able to tell between 1440p vs. 4K? What if lighting is far better than XSS, but texture quality is less. I really wonder.

Honestly, yeah. We'll likely be deep in the 10th gen before we start seeing "downgraded" ports, whatever and however that turns out to be. All the AI and upscaling tech baked into the Switch 2 means it's going to age much more gracefully than the Switch 1 did. As Nvidia continues to improve their DLSS, the Switch 2 will benefit continuously throughout it's lifespan via firmware updates -- it's gonna be the first console in history that looks better as time goes by. In any case, I can't predict the future, but I think we're far less likely to see something like MK1 or Kingdom Hearts in the Cloud ever again. Thank goodness for that haha.

 

[NineTailSage]

It is interesting to see how small the A78 cores are and I know we have a legit amount of information on T239, but I would chip in some funds to get a die shot of the chip. Mainly in pure interest of this thing we've been talking about for so long, to see how the whole design is laid out...

 

[Dakhil]

It is interesting to see how small the A78 cores are and I know we have a legit amount of information on T239, but I would chip in some funds to get a die shot of the chip. Mainly in pure interest of this thing we've been talking about for so long, to see how the whole design is laid out...

The first step is to find someone who's willing to do a die shot of T239 to begin with. I imagine TechInsights is probably willing, but at a price nobody here can afford.

 

[windyoshi]

Even though Switch should be able to run GTAVI just fine, it just feels so far out there like a pipe dream "because rockstar" (similarly to "because Nintendo"). It's just been the trend for so long for them to not focus on Nintendo in that way that it's hard to imagine it will actually happen even though technically it should be not too hard to do for them, so when I see everyone excited at the prospect of GTAVI being announced for Switch 2 I just feel like there's gonna be a let down for those people, but at the same time, if you look at what Rockstar has released on Switch, it almost seems like they are increasing ties and support with Nintendo, so maybe something is really in the works there? I'll keep my expectations low, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[takriel]

Even though Switch should be able to run GTAVI just fine, it just feels so far out there like a pipe dream "because rockstar" (similarly to "because Nintendo"). It's just been the trend for so long for them to not focus on Nintendo in that way that it's hard to imagine it will actually happen even though technically it should be not too hard to do for them, so when I see everyone excited at the prospect of GTAVI being announced for Switch 2 I just feel like there's gonna be a let down for those people, but at the same time, if you look at what Rockstar has released on Switch, it almost seems like they are increasing ties and support with Nintendo, so maybe something is really in the works there? I'll keep my expectations low, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

From a capitalist maximize growth perspective, GTA VI should definitely launch on as many platforms as possible, including Switch 2.

 

[gonanzir]

It seems like Kurnal is the one who takes the die shots herself. I'm not sure if she's interested in taking the die shot for T239.

The first step is to find someone who's willing to do a die shot of T239 to begin with. I imagine TechInsights is probably willing, but at a price nobody here can afford.

edit:https://b23.tv/dxkHTAy https://b23.tv/JVgnEZt(have english sub)

 

[PeachyLaCox]

From a capitalist maximize growth perspective, GTA VI should definitely launch on as many platforms as possible, including Switch 2.

The only thing is I don't think they'll have time to port to another platform, I think Take 2/R* will be focusing getting the Xbox and PlayStation versions out the door first. Then look at sales of Switch 2 and only then start budgeting for the port. For example

• Does the Switch 2 have any bottlenecks for the engine? What's our experience with the hardware?
• What can be done with DLSS, and what's our experience with DLSS?
• With this information do we need to outsource? How much will that cost? Are the initial sales of Switch 2 hitting our own forecasts?
• Does it justify money spent?

Thankfully it sounds like Switch 2 is more than capable of a port. I just don't see it being a launch window title. I see it as a 6 to 12 months after initial launch. R* have very cold feet when it comes to Nintendo IMO in terms of internal politics.

I suspect Take 2 is much more willing to port GTA V and RDR2 at launch and follow up later with GTA VI as soon as the launch of VI is successful. We also have to consider if RDR3 is going to be the next project and if R* can afford for a port team or if they need to outsource to someone like Saber Interactive.

 

[Hermii]

The first step is to find someone who's willing to do a die shot of T239 to begin with. I imagine TechInsights is probably willing, but at a price nobody here can afford.

They will do it out of the goodness of their hearts, I bet.

If not we can always crowdfund.

 

[gonanzir]

The layout I want to shoot won't cost much because Kaural, even as a high school student, managed to self-fund and shoot the layout for A17 on her own.
edit:However, one A17 was indeed ruined in the process, which indicates that if we want to shoot the layout for T239, it will cost at least as much as a Switch 2.(Maybe the other parts can be sold for money, who knows.)

 

[omniryu]

I’m very fine with another barebones OS as I want to plug and play my videogame system as fast as possible.

More RAM for games is better as it easier ti get gen 9 ports.

What does the competition ram do? They play a lot for media apps, but we have built in apps in our TV or a firestick for it. The only useful thing would be livestreaming. To be honest, I think the live streaming should be a dock with streaming capabilities.

 

[Dakhil]

The layout I want to shoot won't cost much because Kaural, even as a high school student, managed to self-fund and shoot the layout for A17 on her own.
edit:However, one A17 was indeed ruined in the process, which indicates that if we want to shoot the layout for T239, it will cost at least as much as a Switch 2.(Maybe the other parts can be sold for money, who knows.)

TechInsights can do much more than only die shots.

Techinsights can actually zoom in to the actual transistors and actually measure the transistor dimensions (e.g. GA100), which can definitely help with determining which process node T239 is fabricated on. But that's definitely not cheap.

 

[HyruleanKnight]

Even though Switch should be able to run GTAVI just fine, it just feels so far out there like a pipe dream "because rockstar" (similarly to "because Nintendo"). It's just been the trend for so long for them to not focus on Nintendo in that way that it's hard to imagine it will actually happen even though technically it should be not too hard to do for them, so when I see everyone excited at the prospect of GTAVI being announced for Switch 2 I just feel like there's gonna be a let down for those people, but at the same time, if you look at what Rockstar has released on Switch, it almost seems like they are increasing ties and support with Nintendo, so maybe something is really in the works there? I'll keep my expectations low, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Quite the contrary, actually. There have been reports about GTA VI being a ludicrously ambitious and expensive game to make, so Rockstar will have to sell as many copies as they feasibly can to recuperate those costs. If a Switch 2 port is this easy to do then it's almost a given.

GTA VI's production cost is so high that even 10 million copies sold may not be enough to break even. They're going to have to sell a lot more than that.

 

[gonanzir]

TechInsights can do much more than only die shots.

Techinsights can actually zoom in to the actual transistors and actually measure the transistor dimensions (e.g. GA100), which can definitely help with determining which process node T239 is fabricated on. But that's definitely not cheap.

If you watch kunral's video, he actually does the same thing.

 

[HyruleanKnight]

The 3DS had all of these features minus quick resume and was fast with great battery life, while allowing the console to have some personality so people can make it their own. There’s no reason why this new console should be lacking Some of these features.

I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to pass judgement on why the Switch OS is the way it is, even in comparison to the 3DS OS. But I do know that the Switch's OS uses a lot more storage and RAM than the 3DS's despite lacking in said features, so I doubt they're comparable in any meaningful way.

 

[navierStokes]

It seems like Kurnal is the one who takes the die shots herself. I'm not sure if she's interested in taking the die shot for T239.

edit:https://b23.tv/dxkHTAy https://b23.tv/JVgnEZt(have english sub)

Nice videos, thanks for sharing them!

 

[Gerald]

Here’s a quick breakdown of the OS Reservations. On a side note if we want Nintendo’s next console to implement some of these modern day features then we need to allocate appropriate resources.

Series S reserves 2GB
Series X reserves 2.5GB
PS5 reserves 3.5GB

PS5 Reserve 3gb gddr6 , 500mb ddr4 is dedicated cache for nvme

 

[gonanzir]

I just inquired with a local company, and they said it would cost around $110. I think it's not cheap, but not very expensive either. However, I believe there will be people willing to provide free T239 die shot photos and some technical details.

 

[Bonejack]

So, i flew over the last ... some 20+ pages since friday evening, i didn't miss much, did i? Outside of the aquisition that has not much to do with the topic right now, of course.

As for that studio aquisition, if they would think about porting to PC (nah) why would they aquire a studio that's main expertise is downporting games to Switch?

Imagine you have a massive digital PS library, and you like playing portable, taking the games with you everywhere.

There you go.

Imagine i have a solid, not massive, physical PS library? What would i do then? And what would i do if i'm also unwilling to pay another cent on old games i already bought to get them digital in some way? ;D

 

[SwitchEmUp]

Here’s a quick breakdown of the OS Reservations. On a side note if we want Nintendo’s next console to implement some of these modern day features then we need to allocate appropriate resources.

Series S reserves 2GB
Series X reserves 2.5GB
PS5 reserves 3.5GB

I think Nintendo shouldn't use more than 1GB for the OS. If anything they can just record 30 seconds at a slightly higher bitrate than the Switch, then have the choice of using Nvidia's video upscaler when exporting it. Nintendo should be prioritising as much RAM as reasonably possible for developers to use. Having 3GB more RAM for developers than the Series S would be a big time achievement for the system and would give the ports atleast some wiggle room

 

[Sin Drive]

The 3DS[...] was fast

I have to say, this is very much not the case unless you have a New 3DS. 3DS was lamented for being pretty slow and Switch is no where near those speeds besides loading into the eshop. You can want the 3DS OS features or whatever in Switch but let's not rewrite history.

 

[rinku]

Here’s a quick breakdown of the OS Reservations. On a side note if we want Nintendo’s next console to implement some of these modern day features then we need to allocate appropriate resources.

Series S reserves 2GB
Series X reserves 2.5GB
PS5 reserves 3.5GB

I'm sure it could do a lot of the basics without having to balloon RAM usage. Like as great as PS5 the feature set is, I only ever use voice chat and messaging plus the odd screenshot, the rest might as well be bloat. The Switch 2 is also never going to be used to play media the same way the PS5/XSX are.

 

[TLZ]

Imagine i have a solid, not massive, physical PS library? What would i do then? And what would i do if i'm also unwilling to pay another cent on old games i already bought to get them digital in some way? ;D

Well... I'll do a Don Mattrick and say "Buy a Xbox 360 ".

On a more serious note, there's nothing much we can do since it wouldn't play CDs. We'll have to stick to our home consoles for that.

 

[gonanzir]

This is probably unrelated to the Switch 2; we might not see NVIDIA's custom cores until the Switch 3. Nevertheless, it's still very interesting information.

 

[ILikeFeet]

However with the new hardware the console should be more than capable to add these basic features. We didn’t even have Bluetooth audio features until halfway into the Switch lifecycle. Also the touchscreen is heavily underutilized as well.

We found out real quick why Bluetooth isn't used for audio features. It's an aspect that didn't get tackled by the Bluetooth group until relatively recently. Now we hope Nintendo is using that newer standard

I wish Saber would request for acquisition too. That's a porting killing spree there.

Which Saber? They're a 2500+ company, lol

 

[crazybenjamin]

Cache is big, and cache doesn't really shrink when process nodes get smaller. 8MB would be a significant chunk of the die. Whether that's "unacceptable" is a Nintendo call.

So Oldpuck's answered the main consideration. I'll tack on more to try to give a sense of scale.

Thanks for the writeups!

I already see people getting genuinely upset at the idea that a game could end up on it because it would "hold back" the game on the 'pure' home consoles. Hogwash, of course, but Nintendo doesn't have the benefit of brushing concerns like those off, they have to try and prove otherwise.

If it boots on anything short of a Ryzen 7800X3D/RTX 4090, then it's held back. /s

I literally specified lower-tier games whose exclusivity does not substantially benefit Nintendo. Nobody is buying a Switch just to play Tetris 99 or Everybody's 1-2 Switch, you can definitely make the case that porting such games can help improve Nintendo's reach to new audiences and convert them into Switch 2 buyers.

I feel like the response to that by PC gamers would just end up being "If Tetris 99, then why not Mario and Zelda as well?" Give a mouse a cookie and all that.

So...

They can't do the same on PC?

With phones, there was a clear strategy of bite-sized, touchscreen-focused spins on established IP. For the PC gaming market, I'm not sure what kind of strategy would be equivalent to that, since that market has a lot more overlap with console gaming.

 

[HyruleanKnight]

We found out real quick why Bluetooth isn't used for audio features. It's an aspect that didn't get tackled by the Bluetooth group until relatively recently. Now we hope Nintendo is using that newer standard

What was the reason? Pardon my ignorant ass, I haven't kept up with Switch hardware news for too long after it launched

 

[gonanzir]

guy,if nintendo look forward a small studio,tango was really good choice.
nintendo please hire tango please

 

[Bonejack]

guy,if nintendo look forward a small studio,tango was really good choice.
nintendo please hire tango please

Look, i don't wanna sound mean, but what would've they aquired them for? Unless i'm wrong, the ownership of their games series is now at MS, and aquiring a studio for talent is risky, because talent can leave.

They basically would've aquired the studio for "goodwill".

And again not to sound mean, if they're interested in some of the talent, and said talent is also interested, they can "just" hire them now individually, wich appears ... easier.

 

[Bait02]

guy,if nintendo look forward a small studio,tango was really good choice.
nintendo please hire tango please

It would be unlikely, considering it's not the way Nintendo usually operates. Though, I think it would be one hell of an addition to their roster.
Considering their experience with different action titles, plus Nintendo guidance and IPs, it would definetly be something special.

 

[gonanzir]

Look, i don't wanna sound mean, but what would've they aquired them for? Unless i'm wrong, the ownership of their games series is now at MS, and aquiring a studio for talent is risky, because talent can leave.

They basically would've aquired the studio for "goodwill".

And again not to sound mean, if they're interested in some of the talent, and said talent is also interested, they can "just" hire them now individually, wich appears ... easier.

I agree with your point. Unless Hi-Fi Rush is part of the deal, acquiring Tango doesn't make much sense. It's just wishful thinking,.

 

[Darknut85]

You all are thinking at a too small scale. Imo Nintendo should buy the whole industry, because if you do something, you should do it ambitious.