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Furukawa Speaks! We discuss the announcement of the Nintendo Switch Successor and our June Direct Predictions on the new episode of the Famiboards Discussion Club! Check it out here!
StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Just kinda trying to dispel the idea that it was a "normal" or "minor" upgrade.
Nah we're not gonna learn anything new here.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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Nah I still think October/November 2022 is likely. I just don't think Nintendo will position this as a big deal, and possibly even that they don't think it's a big deal.
I don't see how a new console, following and replacing the most successful hardware ever made, with leaked specifications placing it way higher than anyone would have expected, isn't a big deal.
We're not talking about a machine that gives you 1080p Xenoblade 2 and 60fps split screen Mario Kart here. This is a machine that could literally receive GTA VI and would carry the switch brand for at least 5 years. If that device ever releases, I can't see how Nintendo wouldn't treat it as a big deal.
We're not talking about a machine that gives you 1080p Xenoblade 2 and 60fps split screen Mario Kart here. This is a machine that could literally receive GTA VI and would carry the switch brand for at least 5 years. If that device ever releases, I can't see how Nintendo wouldn't treat it as a big deal.
Dekuman
Gerudo
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What i hate to see is something like this;
Leaks point to need hardware coming
Nintendo reveals Switch OLED lite launching later this year
Nothing else to announce
No new console in development
So we'll be spending the rest of the year in speculation purgatory again
Leaks point to need hardware coming
Nintendo reveals Switch OLED lite launching later this year
Nothing else to announce
No new console in development
So we'll be spending the rest of the year in speculation purgatory again
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Because they don't want people to stop buying Switches, it's really that simple. They're gonna treat this primarily as a Switch that can do 4k, and not much else.
You think that they wouldn't consider it a big deal with the specs that were leaked ? A ps4 like Switch would be a huge deal, wouldn't it ?
The ship has sailed for such positioning. And the switch will sell well enough this year and decently enough in 2023 to not need a revision.
Those who mentioned it in 2020-21 where obviously oblivious to Nintendo's hardware strategy and just pushed that narrative because it made sense, but that was just hot air to get views and retweets.
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Nintendo doesn't tout specs anymore. Not even when it could benefit them. Nintendo likes to control the messaging and discussing the specs opens up that messaging to all kinds of twists and misinterpretations, look at what happened with the GameCube.
Also a reminder, we don't know what the specs are. We know it likely has 12 SMs but that's all. We don't know clock speeds or CPU/RAM/IO info. We as enthusiasts who follow this stuff might think it's pretty likely to be more powerful than a PS4 but a casual observer might see extremely low clock speeds and assume that it's not. This is why they won't tell us the specs.
And if they're not gonna tell us the specs then I don't really understand how exactly they will treat this as any bigger of a thing than a Switch that does 4k.
They don't need that sort of specs to get 4K games. Even being conservative with clock speeds, this is a next generation switch bound to receive mostly exclusive games after a couple of years.
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Future proofing, is what I imagine. I expect this to essentially be both an upgrade and a new gen, as I've been saying for years now. I believe they'll want to market it first solely as an upgrade and then slowly shift the messaging towards calling it a "next gen" platform.
I don't personally think they'll clock it any lower than the base Switch by the way, clocks are just an example I gave of how giving out specs can lead to misunderstandings and intentional twisting of facts. Even if the clocks are higher than base Switch they're still a long way off from PS4 (despite us knowing that's not what matters).
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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They clearly do for switch games so try again.
Crusters
Koopa
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A big deal to who though?
To me? And probably everyone in this thread? Oh my yes.
To the switches market? Deer in headlights stare
As enthusiasts, we are aware of and excited about the high end market. While I am sure switch has crossover Into high end market customers, they aren't their main focus.
The switch is a low end product. And while the high end has the flash zap pow, the low end market is, has, and will likely always be more important.
Almost all of us here came into this hobby from the affordable low end market.
That is where Nintendo wants the switch. Low end enough to be affordable, capable enough to get playable ports from higher end systems.
Really, it's the way things have mostly always been. Well, except we didn't used to get ports. Just different versions made ground up for the target platforms with varying levels of success at mimicking the game they were trying to copy, by 1 or 2 dudes and a 100 gallons of coffee, for better or worse.
The specs rumored before the leak were far less ambitious and still perfectly able to run switch games at 4K.
There, I tried again.
You mean the company that didn't lower the price of their console in 5 years (and arguably even increased it with the OLED), and who doesn't lower the price of any game?
Gaming on switch is anything but affordable.
Blue Monty
Inkling
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Switch OG nowadays is as expensive as a Series S, and OLED is more expensive than what PS4 non-pro was during most of PS4 lifespan. Nintendo 'left' the lower-end market with the Switch OG and that's why the Lite exists, so Nintendo can still have an option for consumers in that market but it's not the main market for Nintendo anymore
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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What specs, there were no specs. It was speculation based on what was known and came from no source. As soon as the data breach happened is when we got some specifications.
Not leaked, but rumored. Unless you're arguing in bad faith, there were absolutely specs being rumored. Dlss was first mentioned late 2020 I believe.
An Xbox 1s and DLSS would be more than enough to bring your botw to 4K.
Sol
Bob-omb
I don't see how they couldn't think this new device would be a big deal. They've spent years working with Nvidia to build a brand new custom chip from the ground up, along with custom APIs to take advantage of the hardware.
That's all indicative of a new generation. Even if it's positioned as a revision, I don't see a way they just kind of casually release it without a bunch of build up.
Crusters
Koopa
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Yes?
ZX Spectrum launch price $200 (Low end icon. Competed with the c64 at it's price shown below)
Wii launch price: $250
Wii u launch price:$299
Switch launch price:$299
Xbox Series S L price $299
PS4 Launch price:$399
PS5 Digital launch price $399
PS5 Launch price $499
Xbox1 launch price $499
Xbox series X Launch price $499
Commodore 64 Launch price $595 (low end icon, Competed with the spectrum in the UK, in the low end market)
Budget pc gaming rig:$500-$1000
High end PC $2000-3000.
I mean there is no doubt the switch oled is a premium version of the product based on market elasticity of the switch product, but even then, it's clearly a low end product.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Saying Nintendo won’t position this rumored device as a big is weird. People saying just from what’s rumored it’s “next gen like”. That’s a big deal. When are devices from Nintendo being announced in the middle of the holiday? This is getting out of reality
KMStwo
Luma
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I really think this reasoning is dated. It is still tied to when we thought the hardware would be 4 to 8 SMs, it could release in 2021(due to bloomberg conflation) and pre Switch Oled reveal. With a 2021 release date in mind or trying to justify the thing with an iterative hardware pattern, nobody could say perhaps this is Switch 2.
I think the leak and a potential Q4 2022/early 2023 release threw a wrench in the this is just gonna be "Switch that can do 4K" reasoning. There is no point releasing such hardware when the Switch could be 6 years old. 12SMs, 6 years into the Switch, NVN2, ray tracing and all that R&D expenses cannot just be for a Switch that can do 4K. A new Switch continuation sharing much with the Switch but marketed as the next big thing and sold briefly along the Switch for sometime? Yes.
In fact, I don't even know what points to Nintendo treating this new hardware as primarily a Switch that can do 4K. Do we have any solid information that points to that direction?
Sol
Bob-omb
Agree with all of this. It's either the Switch 2 or a major revision of the platform that will be marketed as such - and will eventually phase out the current Tegra Switch.
The 12 SMs and NVN2 API are suggestive of a major new system regardless of how it's marketed.
SiG
Chain Chomp
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The question is, what kind of "gimmick" will they go for this time?
If there is, they're holding it close to the chest. I agree that this new console will have to provide something other than just 4k visuals in order to validate itself.
The question is, what kind of "gimmick" will they go for this time?
that’s what Nate seem to think, but wouldn’t classify that as solid information. It’s not always clear what he gets from sources and what’s his own speculation. If his sources are devs, they probably wouldn’t know anyway.
It made sense in 2020 or even 21, when everyone was speculating. It's even possible that it was, at some point, Nintendo's strategy to release such device. But for something releasing in 2023 or 2024, with the specs being leaked, it doesn't make much sense anymore.
Let's keep in mind that info from unrelated products often get mixed up; look no further than the OLED, which everyone thought would be a more powerful revision.
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The fact of that matter is the only solid info we have about what they plan to position this as says revision/iteration. We have absolutely nothing saying new gen. Nvidia hack says 12SMs, nothing else.
You say "there is no point" in releasing it 6 years into the Switch's life but I say, why exactly not? I have yet to see any solid reasoning regarding why that's a problem, especially considering the Switch's lifetime has been heavily lengthened due to COVID.
You guys continue to think about this product in terms of the silicon, but that has NEVER once been how Nintendo decides how to position and market a product.
KMStwo
Luma
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I know Nintendo loves to introduce their successor hardware with gimmicks but I think this new hardware might be the exception. I think this is gonna be a better Switch all the way around just doing better what the Switch does(better processing power, improved joycons,etc) and not centered around a new gimmick to sell it. The Switch hybrid concept is proven and sufficiently powerful to carry it assuming Nintendo doesn't make some of their past errors.
I could be wrong but every time they introduced a gimmick they had to trade in something(mainly processing power) to accommodate for a "low" price . May be they could have made a Wii 2 with atleast 1tflop by prioritizing processing power rather than investing in the gamepad, same for the 3DS and its 3D screen. And these two past gimmicks are arguably failures and bland compared to the Switch concept.
For this next hardware, they seem to have the best they can have in terms of processing power and their ambitions on that front seem to be really big compared to their previous hardwares. Let's say they want to add real VR or AR, for VR that will necessitate atleast a 1080p screen and AR advanced cameras raising up the price. Would they trade in performance by using a cheaper chip to prioritize such gimmick? With the specs leaked and the price likely to be around 400$ plus, I don't think this time it would be the case.
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LiC
Member
Why? The Switch already has "gimmicks" in the play mode switching and the Joycons that set it apart from everything else out there. No reason to believe Nintendo thinks they need a new gimmick just for the sake of it. They might take things that are already there and enhance them, like VR. But the next system is just going to essentially be a more powerful Switch no matter how you slice it.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
This is a highly technical thread. "Specs" in this thread doesn't mean "DLSS". DLSS is a software tool, it isn't itself a hardware spec. When someone in this thread says "specs" they mean some fact about the hardware - clock speeds, core numbers, bus width process, etc.
There were absolutely not specs being rumored by anyone generally considered legitimate prior to June of last year when kopite7kimi leaked some hardware details, most of which were confirmed by the NVN2 leak. There were discussions in this thread and elsewhere about what the theoretical hardware would probably be, based mostly on NVidia's public roadmap, and the (correct) assumption that a new device would be derived from NVidia's automotive line. This wasn't a rumor this was just speculation.
"4k games" is a pretty meaningless description, frankly, because it doesn't tell you about anything other than resolution. The "Specs" that were talking about don't include clock speeds. We know a lot about how "fat" the pipeline is in the new device from the leaks - how many cores the GPU has, etcetera, but we don't know how "deep" it is - the clock speeds. It is absolutely possible to underclock this thing so far you can't get DLSS 60fps out of it, and it seems highly likely that Nintendo is going to be conservative about the power draw.
We're getting a much fatter chip than expected because Nvidia is customizing another chip for Nintendo's use, but we can expect that there will be ample restrictions on it to get it running within a reasonable power window. 4k is the clear target, but how much "room" is left over is an open question.
It's only going to wind up getting craploads of exclusives if it sells really well. The amount of power in the hardware is a secondary concern. Nintendo is getting to pack a lot of hardware in this thing because of a windfall of good timing from Nvidia, and because the base switch was built on aging hardware. Nintendo wants a revision, and this is the path to get one that brings up a lot of games quickly and cheaply. Whether or not that leads to a high sales, and effectively a next gen changeover depends on Nintendo's 10 year plan, and whether or not the market likes it.
Aether
Kremling
to be pedantic, the connector would be fine, its the protocoll/chip behind it thats the problem (Thunderbolt uses the same and can use external GPUs)
I mean... external GPUs exist, and while using all 4 thunderbolt lanes still is limited to a full 16x connection, it delivers a high jump for many Ultrabooks. With optimization on hardware level (since GPU, housing and main compute unit would be from the same manufacturer, nintendo/nvidia) and software , i could see this work actually pretty well.
The big reason why this will never be: its waaaay to expensive, and the dock needs to be even more capable in reagrs to cooling (console and GPU)... and you will need a power suply + circuitry more expensive then what the switch alone would need.
Why do you think October is likely? (personally, it feels like if it would be october we would have more pressing leaks / rumors, thats 5 months from now
Dlss isn't a technical spec, but it does imply the use of specific hardware. This was discussed here and in the previous place, and the consensus was that the console didn't need specs similar to the leaked ones to reach 4K in switch games.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Introducing new ways to play has always been part of Nintendo's DNA. As a successor, simply having better graphics/specs isn't going to cut it, especially when competitors already have more powerful hardware out in the market.
They need to have a differenciator between the old Switch and this new one. The new Switch introduced tabletop mode, the JoyCon idea (controllers that can split into two) in addition to HD Rumble and its hybrid design. A successor will similarly need to be disruptive instead of just giving us the "same ol' Switch but with better graphics and 4k support".
So yeah, I disagree that it will just have to be a Switch with 4k support. It will have to be something other than (just) a Switch. The gimmicks will be centered around, but won't impede/interfere with more traditional ways to enjoy games. Nintendo was able to experiment with Labo, Ring Fit Adventure, and now Nintendo Switch Sports. I am predicting they will keep adding-on to the ideas of modular functionality.
Aether
Kremling
I see it as the Wii U and Switch: play games in UP TO 4k... (prior it was up to 1080p)
we will have the rare game that gets to 4k, many indie games especially, but i asume most nintendo games will be between at 2k on average.
They now showed for 2 generation, that if they are chasing a style, look, etc that they are willing to sacrifice resolution, and it will happen to here.
Heck, BotW, their big flagship title at the start was running at max 900p docked.
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There's "positioning it as big" and there's "positioning it as so big people want to second guess base Switch purchases for the next half year or more". What's there to gain? Are publishers not going to support it unless there's big hype a year in advance? Are the early shipments not going to sell out unless people have a year to prepare?
Aether
Kremling
KMStwo
Luma
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But then what does 12SMs, NVN2 and raytracing mean?
I think lengthening the Switch lifetime doesn't imply they would market this next hardware as a Switch that can do 4K. I gave my perspective on how I think they are gonna position it and it doesnot hinders the reasoning behind the Switch having a lengthened life. They obviously wont kill it when this hardware is released and they will keep around for like say 2 years but they also won't market this new hardware as primarily a Switch that does 4K.
SiG
Chain Chomp
I disagree. Labo's more complicated kits definitely used more of the JoyCon features than would typically be seen in something like a Nintendo Switch Sports title.
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It means the people who have been saying since 2014 that Nintendo will use the smartphone style of iterative upgrades like Iwata heavily implied are right, albeit delayed.
It means they will iterate on their marketing for this model over time and shift into treating it as a full successor some years down the line.
Crusters
Koopa
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The point of my post you responded to wasn't that external GPU's do not exist or are not possible, it very clearly acknowledged external gpu's as a known existing technology.
The point of it was that because of the following reasons you, for some reason reiterated from my post as if I did'nt say them:
"The big reason why this will never be: its waaaay to expensive, and the dock needs to be even more capable in reagrs to cooling (console and GPU)... and you will need a power suply + circuitry more expensive then what the switch alone would need."
It would be more cost effective to create a non existing technology (portable PS5 in switch form factor).
It was a joke at the expense of the impracticality of an external GPU for mass market.
When suits force through cloud streaming I'm pretty sure it will be the end of the egpu market. Then again I think it will forcibly, and unwantedly, be the end of all above ground videogame markets.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Because they want a 7-10 year Switch generation, which means continuing to make games for the existing install base. They just want a shot in the arm for sales during that generation, but there isn't a world where a revision is going to so overtake the existing install base that the majority of games can be exlusive.
That isn't really true. Yes, years have been invested, and yes, it's a custom chip but it isn't "from the ground up" - they're getting a customized version of a giant hardware line already being heavily invested in by NVidia. It isn't off the shelf like the original switch chip, but it is arguably less "custom" than the hardware in the Wii U.
The "custom APIs" are just an update to the APIs that exist for the existing Switch. They are no more "custom" than the APIs provided by any other console, revision or not.
Why not? A revision needs to be launched in such a way that it doesn't accidentally tank the existing line. If there is a Big Blowout then consumers will expect Next Gen games, which they're not going to get. Casual buyers will be whiplashed by thinking that a new generation has launched when their switch is treating them so well. Why do they have to buy a new one? Oh they don't? It plays the same games? Okay, well why the blow out? But I don't have a 4k TV!
Contrast that with "Are you a hardcore gamer with a big library? Spend a lot of money on a big TV and want your games to look as good as possible. Check out the Switch 4k. It plays all the same games, but they look crystal clear on your big display, with better framerates - even in handheld mode! Some games even have extra features just on this new device, let's take a look at some of them..."
Blue Monty
Inkling
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If I remember correctly this was the result of 3DS being leaked which forced Nintendo to announce it sooner than expected.3DS was first shown at E3, but announced a few months earlier.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
I expect that future Nintendo games will run at 720p-1080p and DLSS to 4k. I do not expect a single game on this device to deliver a "native" non-DLSSed 4k image.
I hope that Nintendo includes a "4k mode" for legacy games on the device. TVs do awful upscaling of video game content, because their upscaling strategies are for movies (I don't like them there either) - doing a simple linear upscale of the image in real time when on UHD TVs would make them look so much better without having to screw with TV settings, and it isn't like the device doesn't have power to spare when running classic switch games.
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3DS never overtook DS's install base, but eventually the majority of games were made for 3DS anyway. If games not possible on the old hardware have enough appeal, software sales for the old device will dwindle as has always happened.
Aether
Kremling
which is what i meant with "did scratch". They did experiments, but labo and 1-2 switch are both conceptialized as "lets make something that uses it in novel ways"... but then forgot to develop a compelling game around it. The best use is probably Ringfit. Expanding the joycon with a bend sensor was great (and showed me that they can work with input data from external sensors, so its possible to do many different peripherals, that dont need much hardware since the joycon can translate the sensor data to the console)
I want to see more games that use the features of the joycons. Arguably Splatoon uses gyro rather well, but gyro does seem less like a joy con thing and more like a ... everything thing. The Camera? The Form Factor? HD Rumble? hm..
I got the joke, and was mostly just because you mentioned Thunderbolt 5, as 3 was already used for eGPUs. The rest was... unnececary to be honest, sorry if it seemed as if im explaining it to you.
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