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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Shoulder said:
Just for kicks, what is the horsepower differential between 8-Cores of the Cortex A78C, and AMD's Zen 2 8-core/16-thread CPU?

AMD's has twice the threads, but in terms of each individual core, are they say about the same in terms of horsepower, and the additional threads are what give it the edge? AMD does also have a frequency advantage, running at ~3.6Ghz vs. maybe 1-2GHz for the A78. On the flip side, A78 is technically "newer" since Zen 2 is from 2019, and A78 came out in 2020, but I am unsure on if that really makes a difference or not in this case.

Another part of this is Xbox uses one of the cores for the OS, so for gaming, it's 7 cores/14 threads. Switch 1 uses one of its cores for the OS, leaving only 3 for developers. I suppose another question is does T239 have auxiliary cores that could be used for the OS itself, leaving all 8 cores for developers? Or is it more the case 7 cores will be for devs, and one for the OS?
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I think someone mentioned that A78C has about a 20% clock-for-clock uplift over Zen 2? Of course, it's not going to be clocked as high, and it doesn't have the extra threads, but still.
 
ILikeFeet said:
This reads like working from a predetermined conclusion and working backwards from there. There isn't any measure of people being predominantly handheld. Nor is there any measure of people buying games solely for first party. First party is a big chunk, but third party games are still 50% of software sales.

From that I don't think people mind the visuals as much since they already accepted the tradeoffs. Unless you believe double dipping is that rampant, I guess
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It's facts dude! There have been numerous polls and a bit more people use the Switch mostly in handheld mode than on the tv. Plus you failed to read that I also said a big portion only use the Switch mostly in docked tv mode.

The Switch hybrid system was a genius idea. But your way off the mark that people don't mind the visuals (specifically in docked tv mode) every forum there's tons of people Nintendo fans annoyed at poor quality 3rd party games because the Switch is underpowered used as a home console.

Nintendo don't have any serious competition yet on the handheld segment. So the Switch sucessor should sell well hardware wise, though it will be tough to match Switch hardware sales. But using the Switch sucessor specifically in docked tv mode isn't going to cut it for upcoming AAA 3rd party games.

Your fine with subpar 3rd party ports in docked tv mode but myself and lots of others including several people on here aren't!
 
Kingchin said:
It's facts dude! There have been numerous polls and a bit more people use the Switch mostly in handheld mode than on the tv. Plus you failed to read that I also said a big portion only use the Switch mostly in docked tv mode.

The Switch hybrid system was a genius idea. But your way off the mark that people don't mind the visuals (specifically in docked tv mode) every forum there's tons of people Nintendo fans annoyed at poor quality 3rd party games because the Switch is underpowered used as a home console.

Nintendo don't have any serious competition yet on the handheld segment. So the Switch sucessor should sell well hardware wise, though it will be tough to match Switch hardware sales. But using the Switch sucessor specifically in docked tv mode isn't going to cut it for upcoming AAA 3rd party games.

Your fine with subpar 3rd party ports in docked tv mode but myself and lots of others including several people on here aren't!
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I don't want to diminish complaints about the lack of visual fidelity, but for all the complaints we see on the internet, the sales show that scaled down ports are accepted by the masses. for folks that aren't, well there are other systems
 
BreakAtmo said:
The Switch 2 will not be 2TF when docked. Docked mode will be at least 3TF, and that's getting into pessimistic territory - @Thraktor made some predictions on sweet-spot clocks that point to something more like 3.4TF, and unlikely dream scenarios with a fixed 25W TDP and dynamic clocks could even get to 4TF. And that's with a superior upscaling tech to anything in current consoles.
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We will see...

A previous leak did say Switch sucessor would be around 70% of Xbox Series S power when docked.

DLSS ray tracing and upscaling unfortunately doesn't come free without sacrifices! Which a lot of people on forums don't understand.

I'm looking forward to the handheld part of the Switch sucessor. But docked tv mode it's going to be another disappointment for the quality of AAA 3rd party games like the Switch. As you can't cheat physics with a hybrid handheld/console.
 
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ILikeFeet said:
I don't want to diminish complaints about the lack of visual fidelity, but for all the complaints we see on the internet, the sales show that scaled down ports are accepted by the masses. for folks that aren't, well there are other systems
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The Nintendo fans complaining would rather buy a Nintendo home console than a PS5. Nintendo aren't stupid have their market research will know this.

Xbox Series X&S hardware sales are doing poorly, PS5 hardware sales are doing well. Plenty of room for Nintendo if they do in the future bring back a home console. It's going to eventually happen.
 
Kingchin said:
But using the Switch sucessor specifically in docked tv mode isn't going to cut it for upcoming AAA 3rd party games.

Your fine with subpar 3rd party ports in docked tv mode but myself and lots of others including several people on here aren't!
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By its very nature of being a hybrid console, the docked mode will always be subpar compared to the more powerful consoles. You can either accept this and enjoy the games for what they are, or you will need an additional platform. Switch has had some amazing third party ports, but there are also a bunch that were more compromised than I would like. I have been kicking around the idea of getting an Xbox my self strictly for third party games.

ILikeFeet said:
I don't want to diminish complaints about the lack of visual fidelity, but for all the complaints we see on the internet, the sales show that scaled down ports are accepted by the masses. for folks that aren't, well there are other systems
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While there have been some good sales for some third party AAA games on Switch, the majority fail to come close to what they sell on Xbox and PlayStation. So I would say the majority of people who buy those types of games prefer not to play cut down versions of these games. Switch has such a large userbase, that even when a small percentage of those gamers are ok with cut down ports, it can still sell well over a million units. I would be curious to know what Doom 2016, Doom Eternal, and the Witcher 3 have sold on Switch?
 
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Nintendo just don't want to compete in this field anymore. This has been their strategy since the gamecube days.

This business model of high revenue poor margins isn't theirs.

And nintendo fans wanting a powerful Nintendo home console aren't numerous enough to sustain such a model should they go for it.
 
Docked mode will fare much better comparatively mostly due to 1080p - 1440p upscaling much better than 720p (and below) on modern 4K sets. Even with DLSS upscaling to 900p - 1080p on demanding ports, the artifacts will be less visible at living room distance.

The Digital Foundry video which one could consider a 'worst case' approximation of Switch 2 visuals, shows off pretty good looking games, no longer in the realm of 'lower than low' settings, running at 1080p DLSS Quality/Balanced.

There's always going to be the occasional port that fares poorly, maybe resulting in Ultra Performance DLSS upscaled to 720p. Still a much better situation than the sub-720p resolutions we've seen in some docked mode Switch games.

And if a port of a demanding 3D game isn't using DLSS then that's just giving up free real estate.
 
Shoulder said:
Just for kicks, what is the horsepower differential between 8-Cores of the Cortex A78C, and AMD's Zen 2 8-core/16-thread CPU?

AMD's has twice the threads, but in terms of each individual core, are they say about the same in terms of horsepower, and the additional threads are what give it the edge? AMD does also have a frequency advantage, running at ~3.6Ghz vs. maybe 1-2GHz for the A78. On the flip side, A78 is technically "newer" since Zen 2 is from 2019, and A78 came out in 2020, but I am unsure on if that really makes a difference or not in this case.

Another part of this is Xbox uses one of the cores for the OS, so for gaming, it's 7 cores/14 threads. Switch 1 uses one of its cores for the OS, leaving only 3 for developers. I suppose another question is does T239 have auxiliary cores that could be used for the OS itself, leaving all 8 cores for developers? Or is it more the case 7 cores will be for devs, and one for the OS?
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Zen 2 cores have a clock advantage compared to the A78C cores and it’ll be quite a large gap. A78 has an IPC advantage compared to Zen 2, but that’s not enough to circumvent the Zen 2 cores. The Zen 2 have SMT, which depending on the application can mean between 5-40% better performance, I’ll round it to 24% since a lot of games don’t have SMT enabled and incorporating it can help create better scenarios for it, but it isn’t magic at all. In fact, some would see only 10% better performance with SMT on vs off even when having to design everything to account for the SMT.

Zen 2 are also not as power limited as the A78C cores that will be in the switch 2.



Also, by the by, but the Series S and X have two clock frequencies depending on if SMT is on or not. Without it on, the Series S operates at 3.6GHz and with it on it operates at 3.4GHz. SX is 3.8GHz with it off and 3.6GHz with it on. PS5 is 3.5GHz peak speed.

We don’t know if T239 has extra cores that can take up the OS tasks, but I think that it can be ruled out for now since only one cluster was mentioned, that said the Exynos 2200(?), the one with the RDNA GPU, it has 8 A53 cores for the modem even though it has ARM v9 CPUs I think.

So it’s not like they can’t mix and match it, and it’s up to the OS to manage it all, but as of now I’m not sure how likely Nintendo and Nvidia would be to do 8 gaming cores and say, 4 A55 cores in a separate block just for the OS and OS related tasks. It’s just an idea.


Edit: I’ve uploaded the pic below with the cores labeled and above it the specific core in question. This is ARM v8 and the main system cores are ARM v9.

C3141C80-841D-412F-B1DB-82A3BDB72CD6.jpg



I know it’s not a smartphone, but if they were up to it, and felt like expending the die space they could do that for the OS I guess and have 1 extra core with a total of 8 cores just for games instead of 7 only for games? Idk, this is out of my depth.

I mean it would be the OS handling it really, and I don’t think they’d even need 8, 4 would be enough I think.

Hm, what are your thoughts on this? @Thraktor
 
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Kingchin said:
Plenty of room for Nintendo if they do in the future bring back a home console. It's going to eventually happen.
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Very unlikely. The hybrid concept has been a big winner and it allows them to consolidate their software development onto one platform.

Serif said:
There's always going to be the occasional port that fares poorly, maybe resulting in Ultra Performance DLSS upscaled to 720p. Still a much better situation than the sub-720p resolutions we've seen in some docked mode Switch games.
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Scaling from 720p to 4K takes a lot of the blame for poor image quality, but in reality it has more to do with the fact that people are buying massive TV's these days. 720p on a 42" TV, even if its 4K, will still look ok, but blow that up on a big 70" TV and things start to look very blurry. Made even worse for games that use dynamic resolution going well below 720p.
 
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SirArthur said:


DF did a Q&A with supports about GTA 6. From PC advancements to the possibility of a switch 2 version.
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I think they're jumping the gun here with their response. we know nothing about how Drake's cpu runs in practice, and we know nothing about how GTA6 runs in a real environment. using scripted cinematics to judge gameplay density is a bad fucking idea all six ways from sunday. "in-engine/real-time/whatever" doesn't mean anything when you can make cutscenes do whatever you want
 
Kingchin said:
The Nintendo fans complaining would rather buy a Nintendo home console than a PS5. Nintendo aren't stupid have their market research will know this.
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Given the Wii U demonstrated pretty concretely the limits of the size of the hardcore Nintendo home console market, evidently not.
 
SirArthur said:


DF did a Q&A with supports about GTA 6. From PC advancements to the possibility of a switch 2 version.
Click to expand...


Interesting, I guess they're lowballing the expectations as their stance could be paraphrased as; "GTA 6 is too big for the Switch 2" :p

Primarily basing their reasoning on Rockstar's output on the Switch and despite the good ports on that console, the switch 2 will still be a mobile chipset. Thus with GTA 6 being as large as it is + relying on presumingly only an RTGI solution + other RT effects. It'll be too heavy.
 
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ILikeFeet said:
I think they're jumping the gun here with their response. we know nothing about how Drake's cpu runs in practice, and we know nothing about how GTA6 runs in a real environment. using scripted cinematics to judge gameplay density is a bad fucking idea all six ways from sunday. "in-engine/real-time/whatever" doesn't mean anything when you can make cutscenes do whatever you want
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Yup. I guess they wanted to do GTA 6 content with the limited knowledge. But some of their "observations" are really vaporware.
 
navierStokes said:
Interesting, I guess they're lowballing the expectations as their stance could be paraphrased as; "GTA 6 is too big for the Switch 2" :p

Primarily basing their reasoning on Rockstar's output on the Switch and despite the good ports the switch 2 is still a mobile chipset, thus with GTA 6 being as large as it is + relying on presumingly only an RTGI solution + other RT effects. It'll be too heavy.
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This reason is what has been use, lets say for example Bandai. Sure their output has not been great on switch, but we cannot say definitely that its gonna be the same for the next console. We already saw the improvement from wii u to switch (granted there are other factors in play)
 
Kingchin said:
Yes it would be and it would be the best of both worlds as the big portion of Nintendo fans who prefer handheld gaming would buy the more powerful hybrid handheld/console or Switch Lite handheld equivalent.

And the also big portion of Nintendo fans who want a home console as powerful as the PS5 would buy the Nintendo home console. Would give them good AAA 3rd party ports, not subpar AAA 3rd party ports like currently on the Switch. Which is underpowered for the tv portion.

Plus I said the game cartridges would be compatible in both systems. So if you bought both systems you wouldn't have to buy a different version of the game for it.


It's Nintendo's excellent first party games that have made the Switch a success. Made it the 3rd highest hardware sales of any gaming system! A hybrid system makes it impossible to do good AAA 3rd party ports. Hence very poor AAA 3rd party ports of Hogwarts Legacy, Batman Arkham Trilogy etc on the Switch.

Yes the Switch sucessor will probably be similar power as a Steam Deck, likely better performance as better optimised than a portable PC. So will be great for handheld gaming on a 1080P OLED screen.

But docked to the tv AAA 3rd party games are going to have the same problem as the Switch. Maybe even more so as lot's of upcoming AAA 3rd party games like GTA 6 will be pushing the boundaries graphically. There is a growing number of Nintendo fans who want similar power to a PS5 connected to the tv. Who don't want average at best AAA 3rd party ports!

Nintendo have denied that they won't make a home console ever again. So no reason to think Nintendo won't make a home console again in the future. Game cartridges that work in both a portable system and home system is a clever solution.
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At best you’re looking at Lite sales numbers which is ~10mil. For the device you’re speaking of the ceiling will be extremely low (PS5 like price + niche consumer base). If we take Lite number sales then people prefer the hybrid because it does everything not specifically due to preferring handheld gaming.

When we talk about software you don’t reach a billion by 1st party alone here. So it seems like consumers are okay buying these subpar ports. And, we have seen evidence of this throughout Switch’s life. People are fine with it as long as they can play on their preferred device.

In the end it seems like you creating a solution for a minority of consumers that has little tangible benefit.
 
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navierStokes said:
Interesting, I guess they're lowballing the expectations as their stance could be paraphrased as; "GTA 6 is too big for the Switch 2" :p

Primarily basing their reasoning on Rockstar's output on the Switch and despite the good ports on that console, the switch 2 will still be a mobile chipset. Thus with GTA 6 being as large as it is + relying on presumingly only an RTGI solution + other RT effects. It'll be too heavy.
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until we see gameplay, it's too early to think the game is too heavy. I mean, Avatar is running on hardware weaker than Drake (assuming bandwidth isn't a problem) and that has an RTGI solution
 
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ILikeFeet said:
I think they're jumping the gun here with their response. we know nothing about how Drake's cpu runs in practice, and we know nothing about how GTA6 runs in a real environment. using scripted cinematics to judge gameplay density is a bad fucking idea all six ways from sunday. "in-engine/real-time/whatever" doesn't mean anything when you can make cutscenes do whatever you want
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It's also a bit ironic to refer to the Matrix demo running on PS5 & Xbox Series X|S as a relative comparison to indicate that the GTA6 footage shown, can run on those consoles.
Going by the Gamescom rumour, that was also running on Switch 2, we don't know what fidelity of course (e.g. software lumen only & 720p), but it would indicate that the Switch 2 has enough grunt to run that at 30fps on the CPU side of things.
Although it's Alex saying it when answering whether the trailer is possible on PS5 or not, whereas before it was Rich & Oliver discussing the Switch 2 question, eitherway it's all too early for such conclusions.

SirArthur said:
This reason is what has been use, lets say for example Bandai. Sure their output has not been great on switch, but we cannot say definitely that its gonna be the same for the next console. We already saw the improvement from wii u to switch (granted there are other factors in play)
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Yeah for sure, the Switch has always been a platform they keep in their mind, but as games constantly went more open-world the scope has gotten a bit too big, especially 3rd party devs as not all engines and resources are allocated the same etc.
I'd expect a lot of games released previously and in the future will find their way to the next switch more readily and simultaneously with the big console releases.

Concernt said:
famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

It’s hard for me to reconcile 1. The Switch 2 will be extremely powerful, like 40-50% as powerful as the Series S (which probably still costs over $400 to make) 40% of series S is not even that ground breaking for an ARM SoC these days, this is just dooming for the sake of dooming 2. The...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
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I was just summarising their answer, but I agree with what you said there :D. Too early to tell.

famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

It's literally in-engine. Panning shots of a rooftop party are not gameplay, this isn't a David Cage game, there was no UI, no button prompts, there was in-engine footage, some possibly representative of gameplay, but this was not a gameplay trailer. Calling an in-engine trailer "gameplay" is...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
 
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I personally find Digital Foundry to be really great at providing tech facts :)

But I don't pay any attention to their opinions and speculation. Through the years I've seen them surprised by so many things. When someone is so frequently surprised by stuff, that surely indicates they're not necessarily the best at speculation and estimation.

This isn't me burying my head out of desire for GTA VI on Switch 2, this has been my position on DF for years, and has nothing to do with GTA VI. I have no idea if GTA VI is too CPU intense for Switch 2, nor do I know if it'll be able to scale to it. Obviously, none of us know that.
 
Danny said:
Nintendo has left the AAA gaming market, they could not compete with Sony and Microsoft on those terms and have wisely chosen another strategy to remain competitive. Back in the days when they tried to release home consoles on the same terms as Sony and Microsoft they always had worse third party support and could not compete in getting the best AAA games to their system, so their consoles lost out to the competition. But Nintendo handheld systems on the other hand always remained competitive and saw off Sony's attempt to win the handheld market, that is why Nintendo switched to the hybrid model and will remain there. If Nintendo released a console to rival the PS5 it would sell low numbers as before and would be utterly trounced by the PS5, it would have much worse third party support than either PS5 or Xbox series X/S.
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They always had worse support because they treated third party devs like trash, they got what was coming to them.

Also lol at the annoying guy being banned by the stupid banned games rule. Not sure how to feel about it.
 
Nintendo has not left AAA gaming. They’ve “abandoned” the home console market. I put it in quotations because they didn’t 100% out themselves from, rather, used their handheld market dominance to take a slice of the home market pie.

Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, all Triple A gaming experiences.

————

Another point: Nintendo won’t ho back to home and handheld. There’s also a cost argument to be made for having two categories of video games to develop
 
ns156 said:
They always had worse support because they treated third party devs like trash, they got what was coming to them.

Also lol at the annoying guy being banned by the stupid banned games rule. Not sure how to feel about it.
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While I do think the banned games rule is stupid, and getting a 2 month threadban for it is especially stupid, he had been shitting up the thread with doomposting for months, so it was some much-needed discipline.
 
The hybrid console is such a fun and unique concept. Nintendo are the only console maker doing it. There's no other piece of hardware that is as seamless and good at 'being a hybrid' than the Switch.

I do think a Nintendo home console could do well, albeit be boring, since the last few ones had some bone-headed decisions. The Switch feels like it's addressed a lot of those - but it's not stuck tethered to a TV. There's a concrete reason to buy a potential Switch 2 over a PS5 - there's an overlap of games, but they're portable on the Switch. I don't consider that 'exiting' the market, just competing in a different way. You miss out on some games and raw power, in exchange for hybrid flexibility and Nintendo exclusives. That's the value proposition.

There probably is a world out there where Nintendo fully exited the TV space, where the Switch was just the Lite. And that world suuucks.
 
Does anyone know if PS/Xbxox games use the GPU to offload physics calculations or is it entirely done on the CPU?

I know that a few Switch games moved from the CPU to GPU to handle physics calculations.

I wonder if that could help a bit on GTA VI if it ever gets ported to Switch 2
 
Serif said:
The hybrid console is such a fun and unique concept. Nintendo are the only console maker doing it. There's no other piece of hardware that is as seamless and good at 'being a hybrid' than the Switch.

I do think a Nintendo home console could do well, albeit be boring, since the last few ones had some bone-headed decisions. The Switch feels like it's addressed a lot of those - but it's not stuck tethered to a TV. There's a concrete reason to buy a potential Switch 2 over a PS5 - there's an overlap of games, but they're portable on the Switch. I don't consider that 'exiting' the market, just competing in a different way. You miss out on some games and raw power, in exchange for hybrid flexibility and Nintendo exclusives. That's the value proposition.

There probably is a world out there where Nintendo fully exited the TV space, where the Switch was just the Lite. And that world suuucks.
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Best thing I’ve read here in months.
 
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The Switch is either a home console where the gimmick is that it's also portable and has a screen, or it's a portable console where the gimmick is that can also be hooked up to a TV and played on a big screen. The Switch Lite gets rid of one gimmick. There should be a Switch that gets rid of the other gimmick and only hooks up to the a TV.
 
The Competition said:
I personally find Digital Foundry to be really great at providing tech facts :)

But I don't pay any attention to their opinions and speculation. Through the years I've seen them surprised by so many things. When someone is so frequently surprised by stuff, that surely indicates they're not necessarily the best at speculation and estimation.

This isn't me burying my head out of desire for GTA VI on Switch 2, this has been my position on DF for years, and has nothing to do with GTA VI. I have no idea if GTA VI is too CPU intense for Switch 2, nor do I know if it'll be able to scale to it. Obviously, none of us know that.
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Yeah, I've noticed that too (being surprised at miracle Switch ports and other non-Switch related stuff), I think DF like to be conservative in their estimates/speculation. Because of the size of their viewership, they probably find it generally better to be conservative and be surprised later, than tend to be overly optimistic and have to do followups later that makes them walk back on their previous optimistic estimates/speculation.
 
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Nintendo left AAA gaming. Ignore the very big AAA game that won action/adventure this year at the TGA with the beautiful orchestral rendition of the main theme and Daddy Aonuma's speech begin cut off.
 
Serif said:
There's a concrete reason to buy a potential Switch 2 over a PS5 - there's an overlap of games, but they're portable on the Switch. I don't consider that 'exiting' the market, just competing in a different way.
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There is reason to buy a Switch 2 in addition to the PS5, which is even more important rather than trying to be a product that you purchase instead of a PS5. Buying a PS5 or an Xbox is basically buying the same thing but with some differences with exclusive software. For all intents and purposes, they are targeting the same consumers without significant attributes that will cause a high percentage of consumers to purchase both. Switch is primarily a portable system that has a huge perk of being able to play the games on your TV. A lot of games for Switch aren't compromised in Dock mode at all. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Mario Wonder and Smash Bros Ultimate both render at 1080p 60fps and look great.

bmfrosty said:
There should be a Switch that gets rid of the other gimmick and only hooks up to the a TV.
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The problem is most people tend to think that a TV only model would have higher performance, and it wouldn't. Nintendo is not creating another SKU with a different performance profile. Switch Lite gets rid of one of the gimmicks, but it simply uses the portable performance profile.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
Question for all, H2, but what month?

A) September
B) October
C) November
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September but in no universe does it make sense for me to see the customs data that some of us can see in plain view and think it's going to be released that far in the future.

Nearly a full year worth of "pre-mass-production -> mass production" posturing that begins in August 2023 and ends with release in September, more than a year later. Not saying it won't happen, but if history was of any indication, it does not point to release being as late as September.
 
Goodtwin said:
There is reason to buy a Switch 2 in addition to the PS5, which is even more important rather than trying to be a product that you purchase instead of a PS5.
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Perhaps, though we're talking about two $400+ devices with $60-70 games and potentially a large overlap in library. While ideally it'd be nice to own both, I think a lot of decision making will end up with one over the other, especially for people who don't yet own a current gen console.
 
Goodtwin said:
The problem is most people tend to think that a TV only model would have higher performance, and it wouldn't. Nintendo is not creating another SKU with a different performance profile. Switch Lite gets rid of one of the gimmicks, but it simply uses the portable performance profile.
Click to expand...
I don't think it would be a higher performance thing. It would just always be docked mode and be the same price as the Switch Lite.

I don't think this should be a Switch 1 thing anymore though. Just Switch 2.
 
darthdiablo said:
September but in no universe does it make sense for me to see the customs data that some of us can see in plain view and think it's going to be released that far in the future.
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If it does end up being H2, I do like September. It gets the early adopters out of the way prior to the holiday season. Im really hoping its going to be H1, and if thats the case, I like May, one year after Zelda TotK launched.

Serif said:
Perhaps, though we're talking about two $400+ devices with $60-70 games and potentially a large overlap in library. While ideally it'd be nice to own both, I think a lot of decision making will end up with one over the other, especially for people who don't yet own a current gen console.
Click to expand...

For some people it will be a one of the other, but considering there are 60+ million people who have already purchased a PS5 or Xbox Series console, many of those people will be in a position to buy another piece of hardware by the time SNG launches.
 
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