It’s a grind in the sense that the game itself is grindy, that was simply never a problem in Zelda. I don’t even mention “story” in the sense of plot progression, I’m talking about how many of the content has some kind of scenario about them, how many of them have a distinct purpose.
Shrines just don’t do it because you always know what to expect. Sure, the core gameplay is good, the puzzles are good, some Shrines are bigger than others, same with caves. They are still very formulaic to their core concept, why would I be content with “appreciating the journey and joy of exploration” when most of the time, the destination are Shrines. It undermines the whole thing, the game doesn’t feel as alive or memorable when the points of interest that outnumber the most interesting ones are monochrome puzzle rooms. Some have keys in them and have two chests instead of one but they are still Shrines, they don’t really expand upon their individual concepts the way that dungeons do. I just never feel like I’m reaching a climax when I clear a new Shrine, it’s like the whole game is eating potato chips but other Zeldas had full courses.
Getting health upgrades in past Zeldas was more interesting because Heart Pieces were found in a variety of contexts that were always more complex than Rupees. Sometimes it’s a secret, other times you use a new item, you help NPCs that have problems that you figure out not because they have an exclamation mark and give you a fetch quest. Sure you can refute by saying that Shrines have better puzzles or that you could never get to Heart Pieces by building spaceships but that’s not the point. The amount of truly distinct content in open air Zeldas is simply disproportionate compared to the more repetitive or formulaic stuff, that’s it. The progression system doesn’t help either because on top of never unlocking new abilities, the fact that most collectables are consumable resources just makes things grindy. You sell stuff because the game barely gives you rupees so you can buy armor, you upgrade armor, you get health/stamina upgrades. You basically get a bunch of stuff that only does something once you have enough, then you can have some kind of permanent upgrade to make your navigation easier, rinse and repeat. Meanwhile everything in past Zeldas was immediately useful, there’s a reason why the chest jingle is so iconic. If that’s not a grind idk what it is, sure it’s not explicitly grindy in the same ways than some RPGs are but it’s still a grind in the sense that you need a lot of something in order to do something. Again, past Zeldas never had this problem, even Wind Waker with the Triforce Quest wasn’t grindy because while you needed a lot of Rupees to appraise the charts, the game always gave you some near them so you never really needed to “farm” money, can’t say the same about buying armor in BOTW/TOTK. Skyward Sword item upgrades never felt grindy at all, some materials come from monsters, others are chests that are basically between Rupees and Heart Pieces in terms of complexity, getting enough gets you item upgrades which aren’t vital to complete puzzles but still very noteworthy, they are conceptually the same than something like the Longshot, which is good.
Here another example on how the game can fall flat for me and that has nothing to do with me missing the point. So in BOTW there’s Lanaryu mountain, if you can see a mountain you can climb it. I climb it early-ish game, I use warming meals, I’m engaging with the game, I avoid Lynels, it’s all good. On top there’s the sick ice dragon, if you can count it as a boss fight it would be one of the best in gaming. At the end of all that what happens? You get a Shrine of blessing with a breakable weapon, not even something like an ice weapon that recharges like the Master Sword, no just another breakable weapon. If that wasn’t anticlimactic enough, the worst part is that the other two dragons’ quests aren’t nearly as good. On top of that, the persistent effect in saving them just means that they are out there roaming again so you can catch them and shoot at specific parts to get crafting materials to dully upgrade your armors. If that doesn’t highlight how the whole structure of Shrines and crafting materials undermines the game I dunno what else to say.
Other Zeldas simply don’t have this problem, stuff like themed dungeons and new items are an easy element to mention because they completely address the issue of Shrines being too repetitive and not unique enough. MM alone is a testament on how the Zelda team has the ability of mixing things up, meaning that the other 3D games were never stuck in a corner, it was just circumstances that lead the last few ones into being more formulaic with the three dungeons -> twist -> more dungeons -> boss structure. Therefore it’s bullshit to imply stuff like “old Zelda belongs in the trash, other series can have dungeons, sales speak for themselves” (this sentiment isn’t as present here but still). Basically what I’m saying is that the people preferring older Zelda feel that way not because they miss the point of the game, it’s simply because they have a problem with certain design and pacing issues that older Zelda never had. Those are legit criticisms and not troll stuff like what certain console warriors and David Jaffe are saying. Mario can be linear or open. Metroid can be more exploration focused or more action/horror focused (still retains the core Metroid elements). Long running series can have different focuses in their design philosophies between games. But with Zelda it’s fine to settle with it borrowing concepts from other open world games that usually aren’t even in the same genre just because it hits the right notes on concepts like “exploration and freedom”? They honestly ran Shrines and story flashbacks to the ground after only two games. No matter how cool the mechanics are, this sentiment will always be present if the games don’t provide contexts that are more appealing. “Bringing dungeons back” isn’t making a step back, it’s simply looking back at a series with a very rich history to then fully expand and build on interesting concepts that didn’t have the opportunity to blossom, to evolve due to certain hardware limitations (reminder that SS was a Wii game, if it wasn’t it would have over 3 areas and be actually interconnected). That’s it
