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StarTopic Donkey Kong Community |ST| No Country For Old Kongs

So this is kind of neat: Sea of Thieves just recently added this beach themed blunderbuss weapon.

Beachcomber%27s_Bounty_Blunderbuss.png

Its description is, I kid you not:



I don't play SOT but I always do enjoy seeing Rare include these little clever (clever enough to avoid copyright lawsuits, anywho) references to their time on Donkey Kong. Like how that "Killer Whale" figurehead is very obviously based on Enguarde.

did3vr9it1m61.jpg

I love the little classic Rare nods and easter eggs in Sea of Thieves.

I know when they added the Crocodile costumes, it mentions something tongue-in-cheek about Kremlings without name dropping. (If I remember correctly.)

And when you boot up the game, one of the first locations you can see marked on the map is “Treasure Trove Cove.”

And Crescent Isle from Diddy Kong Racing is there and shaped as a banana!
a34cp7gh57v01.jpg
 
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2D Mario, 3D Mario, DK. I think one or two of those games are going to be featured in the June 21 Direct.
I'm betting that DK will be the one to be shown this week mostly due to the fact that I feel like we won't get any kind of Mario platformer until the "Switch 2" or next-gen Nintendo system.
 
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It’s perhaps irrational but if a 2D Mario gets announced for this holiday I’m having a hard time seeing where they slot in a DK game. Switch 2 will almost certainly launch with a new 3D Mario in 2024, and I can’t see another flagship platformer game come out between those two games. I’d love to be wrong, the more platformers the better, but I am struggling to picture it.
 
The only two problems that I see with this is that one, would Nintendo even release a 2D Mario late in a system's lifespan besides from the NES and two, would they think that Maker 2 and NSMBU Deluxe be it for the Switch.
 
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I think Nintendo will release 2D Mario first, then DK some months later. I don't think they see the two as competitors; instead, they'll try to sell DK to the 2D Mario audiencee as a sort of "You liked that? You'll also like this!" way.

Back in the Wii era, DKC Returns and Kirby Return to Dream Land were marketed to the NSMBW audience, after all.
 
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I believe there's room for both a 2D Mario and 2D Donkey Kong game;

personally speaking, of course, I'd rather the new DK game being a sidescroller;
 
I would love a new 2D Mario platformer, don't get me wrong, but I'm going to be annoyed if they announce yet another Mario game before Donkey Kong gets some love. I couldn't help but roll my eyes when game journalists were frantically asking Miyamoto when the next Mario game would be announced during the press tour for the Mario Movie. Although Miyamoto is reportedly behind the internal push to make Donkey Kong a big deal again, it still feels like the poor ape will never escape Mario's shadow. Even the Donkey Kong things that do get announced, like the LEGO sets, are saddled with Super Mario branding.

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of course, Mario as a brand is never truly in any danger.. but it's been even longer since the last 2D Mario, if we have to weigh anything.

I wouldn't be particularly irritated if we got yet another Mario game (since I like both series equally), but sure I'd be disappointed to go by one more year with no sign of Donkey Kong...

again, no reason we can't have both simultaneously; especially this late on the Switch, since they don't have to "convince" anyone to buy systems anymore.. you're just pleasing your current (very comfortable) userbase.
 
While like what CyberWolfJV just said, I wouldn't mind a Mario or Donkey Kong platformer since I do like both series equally. That said though, I feel more interested in EPDK due to the fact that the game is likely going to show us the future of the DK series as a whole when it comes to gameplay and what characters will come back. Hopefully, if we don't get a DK reveal on Wednesday, then I GUARANTEE that it will appear in the September Direct.
 
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of course, Mario as a brand is never truly in any danger.. but it's been even longer since the last 2D Mario, if we have to weigh anything.

I wouldn't be particularly irritated if we got yet another Mario game (since I like both series equally), but sure I'd be disappointed to go by one more year with no sign of Donkey Kong...

again, no reason we can't have both simultaneously; especially this late on the Switch, since they don't have to "convince" anyone to buy systems anymore.. you're just pleasing your current (very comfortable) userbase.
Although I agree with your greater point, Nintendo considers Super Mario Maker, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Maker 2 to be mainline 2D Mario games.
 
Ironically, as soon as the 2D Mario topic gets brought up here, people online are now running with the idea becuase... a Twitter user said so. Stranger things have happened, but it wouldn't be an announcement that really gets me excited as a Nintendo fan/Switch owner, even if it's something I would definitely have a blast playing
 
In light of the recently announced Nintendo Direct for tomorrow, I present you this summoning picture that I have hung up on my walls since E3 2021.
 
I'm not optimistic anymore. I'm starting to think that, like I originally theorized, Donkey Kong is being saved for the next system—especially if it's 3D.
 
I want all of it. 2D Mario, 3D Mario, and Donkey Kong. The only way I'm truly disappointed in the Direct is if we get none of them. I've been very vocal on being disappointed in Nintendo's support of new 1st party platformers being few and far between the last couple years outside of the Kirby series.

3D Mario I expect to be the launch title for Switch 2 so I don't expect it here. But I'm also the least worried in it. 2D Mario I'm worried whether they take the NSMB criticism seriously and actually come up with something new and original that's worthy of the Mario name's pedigree. Then for DK I just want Nintendo to treat it like a big brand again.
 
I hope we get at least SOMETHING dk related at the direct. DK64 or Diddy Kong Racing on NSO, new game announcement, Diddy/Funky in MK8 DLC...
I'm guessing the highest chance for something DK related is a Game Boy (Advance) release or maybe some Mario + Rabbids DLC... or maybe a spin-off like Super Princess Peach but with Lanky Kong as the protagonist
 
In recent years, the only time I'm right in my predictions if if I predict to be let down, so I don't focus on trying to be right anymore. I just focus on what I want, so I hope to see anything that gives me a reason to keep playing my Switch after Pikmin 4 and pray for DK
 
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I’m not optimistic about DK but I’m looking forward to the new 2D Mario if it’s real.
 
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Having nothing but a Wii U port, a DLC expansion for a Mario game, and the Arcade trilogy rereleased... will sure make the Switch go out in a whimper..

I still hope that we don't have to wait until the next system to play a brand new Donkey Kong platformer. It's a 300+ dollar investment that I'm not ready to do just for one game.
 
I unfortunately have a hard time enjoying anything Nintendo makes when DK is constantly getting shafted in these directs. This will probably be one of my last posts here if DK is yet again a no show. 😔
I definitely understand to an extent. The last Direct I genuinely enjoyed was the one from September of 2021 where we got the Mario Movie cast and Kirby and the Forgotten Land. For me most of it is the lack of new announcements from Nintendo that speaks to me at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving my time with Zelda and there's a good chance I get Pikmin day one, but we've known about those since 2019 and 2015 respectively. And on one hand sure, I have pretty broad game tastes outside of Nintendo, so I always have plenty to play, but when my #1 favorite series gets shafted for so long it leaves me a bit down as far as Nintendo goes. At this point in the game, I just hope they reveal anything that can get my hype levels up
 
I think we'll see DK on Switch, though maybe not tomorrow. It's a brand which resonates a lot with the general audience, yet unlike 3D Mario, Zelda or Mario Kart isn't a proved system seller as launch title. In fact, DK games have historically been released during the twilight years of a console (Tropical Freeze was the exception).
 
I've just replayed all three DK Country games on NSO with my niece and nephew. DK Country is my favorite game because it's the one that got me into video games as a kid. We used to play it with my older sister, their mother, and frankly, even though she's not particularly a gamer, we both had tears in our eyes during the opening credits of Donkey Kong Country.


What I find interesting is that I've always had a very clear preference for the first Donkey Kong Country, because I found the direct sequel, though constantly cited as better, less lively, less endearing. My niece, who's brillant for her age, told me that she thought 2 did "everything better". I never realized that, but it's true that DKC2 is to DKC1 what Tropical Freeze is to Returns: a refined level design, a more complete game. But I still find that the former has an extra soul that the others lack. The music alone is on a whole other level, in my opinion, in Donkey Kong Country.

How do you feel about it? Am I just a nostalgic reactionary?
 
I've just replayed all three DK Country games on NSO with my niece and nephew. DK Country is my favorite game because it's the one that got me into video games as a kid. We used to play it with my older sister, their mother, and frankly, even though she's not particularly a gamer, we both had tears in our eyes during the opening credits of Donkey Kong Country.


What I find interesting is that I've always had a very clear preference for the first Donkey Kong Country, because I found the direct sequel, though constantly cited as better, less lively, less endearing. My niece, who's brillant for her age, told me that she thought 2 did "everything better". I never realized that, but it's true that DKC2 is to DKC1 what Tropical Freeze is to Returns: a refined level design, a more complete game. But I still find that the former has an extra soul that the others lack. The music alone is on a whole other level, in my opinion, in Donkey Kong Country.

How do you feel about it? Am I just a nostalgic reactionary?

I have a soft spot for the original DKC as well even though the second is clearly the "better" game. Same for DKCR. Tropical Freeze obviously does a lot of things better, but DKC Returning just brought me such joy after the series was dormant for so long that in some ways I prefer it to TF.

I don't talk about DKC 3 much. I really don't like it much.
 
I unfortunately have a hard time enjoying anything Nintendo makes when DK is constantly getting shafted in these directs. This will probably be one of my last posts here if DK is yet again a no show. 😔

I totally get this feeling. I tend to be a fan of a lot of Nintendo's "second class" franchises that historically get ignored for long periods of time (Metroid, Pikmin, DK, Kid Icarus, Luigi's Mansion, etc). The Switch generation in particular has been super annoying for me seeing a million FE, Xenoblade, Pokemon, Splatoon, AC, Mario Party, etc franchises I don't care too much for and seeing Donkey Kong basically get ignored.

Don't give up hope yet, there's been so much smoke around a DK revival and it could definitely happen tomorrow even though the Mario rumors are in full force. Even if it's not though, there's still an excellent chance it might show up in September and be one of the key Switch releases for next year. Either way, it's clear Nintendo is getting ready to revive DK in a big way, and he'll have his moment in the sun soon.
 
I've just replayed all three DK Country games on NSO with my niece and nephew. DK Country is my favorite game because it's the one that got me into video games as a kid. We used to play it with my older sister, their mother, and frankly, even though she's not particularly a gamer, we both had tears in our eyes during the opening credits of Donkey Kong Country.


What I find interesting is that I've always had a very clear preference for the first Donkey Kong Country, because I found the direct sequel, though constantly cited as better, less lively, less endearing. My niece, who's brillant for her age, told me that she thought 2 did "everything better". I never realized that, but it's true that DKC2 is to DKC1 what Tropical Freeze is to Returns: a refined level design, a more complete game. But I still find that the former has an extra soul that the others lack. The music alone is on a whole other level, in my opinion, in Donkey Kong Country.

How do you feel about it? Am I just a nostalgic reactionary?
I think 1 has a more deliberate, naturalistic atmosphere. It’s a very quiet game with moody music and lowkey sound effects which really lets you take everything in. There’s some of that in 2 for sure, but it leans more into this gothic pirate feel that is more Nightmare Before Christmas than Animal Planet (which I love and is very unique among mascot platformers). That said I think 2’s more fun to play due to more complex level design, Animal Buddies getting a bigger spotlight, better bosses, rewards for bonus levels etc. Diddy and Dixie are also easily my favorite Kong duo, both in gameplay and characterization.

1 has a terrific atmosphere but I find as a platformer in terms of design it’s above average carried hard by its visuals and music. 2 and 3 are better designed overall in my book. So while I can see someone liking 1’s feel more, I find myself returning to 2 and 2 more.
 
The thing is I think DKC2 has better graphics, levels music etc, but I think that DK and Diddy mesh together way better than Diddy and Dixe. In DKC1 I have a reason to use both kongs, but in DKC2 I only ever want to play Dixie. Also, I hate that in DKC2 you have to pay Wrinkly to save each time. So both games have their pros and cons imo
 
I've just replayed all three DK Country games on NSO with my niece and nephew. DK Country is my favorite game because it's the one that got me into video games as a kid. We used to play it with my older sister, their mother, and frankly, even though she's not particularly a gamer, we both had tears in our eyes during the opening credits of Donkey Kong Country.


What I find interesting is that I've always had a very clear preference for the first Donkey Kong Country, because I found the direct sequel, though constantly cited as better, less lively, less endearing. My niece, who's brillant for her age, told me that she thought 2 did "everything better". I never realized that, but it's true that DKC2 is to DKC1 what Tropical Freeze is to Returns: a refined level design, a more complete game. But I still find that the former has an extra soul that the others lack. The music alone is on a whole other level, in my opinion, in Donkey Kong Country.

How do you feel about it? Am I just a nostalgic reactionary?
I didn't grow up with these games and I prefer the original over 2, and I think it comes down to the fact that I like that the first game has more core platforming levels and that the animal buddies serve more as an extension to the level than a core gimmick of it most of the time, I haven't even finished 2 and is in part due to levels that force me to play as Squawks and the like, don't think they are much fun.

Soundtrack wise the first is still pretty unique compared to the rest of the series, it nails a sense of melancholy in nature that the others games don't match, while the sequels still have some of that, they go for a more lively, gamey vibe for the most part, both approaches result in great soundtracks but there is only one that sounds like DKC1.
 
I've just replayed all three DK Country games on NSO with my niece and nephew. DK Country is my favorite game because it's the one that got me into video games as a kid. We used to play it with my older sister, their mother, and frankly, even though she's not particularly a gamer, we both had tears in our eyes during the opening credits of Donkey Kong Country.


What I find interesting is that I've always had a very clear preference for the first Donkey Kong Country, because I found the direct sequel, though constantly cited as better, less lively, less endearing. My niece, who's brillant for her age, told me that she thought 2 did "everything better". I never realized that, but it's true that DKC2 is to DKC1 what Tropical Freeze is to Returns: a refined level design, a more complete game. But I still find that the former has an extra soul that the others lack. The music alone is on a whole other level, in my opinion, in Donkey Kong Country.

How do you feel about it? Am I just a nostalgic reactionary?
Mekanos and others went over a lot of this, but there's a little bit of extra flair to the environments in the first game that was mostly ignored by the sequels, like the changing weather and lighting in certain levels. The sequels do it once or twice, but it's never the showpiece it was in levels like Snow Barrel Blast. Though on the other hand, it's also blurrier and more plastic-looking than the sequels, which made great strides with the 3D rendering technology.

As for the music, I guess it like all of the others has its unique qualities. It's the only one to have a meaningful split between two different composers, and I think Eveline Novakovic actually did most of her best work here rather than in 3, so her touch is really evident and important on this one. There's also a more atmospheric bent to it, a lot of themes that have a slow build to them and focus primarily on mood. I think Cave Dweller Concert and DK Island Swing are among the longest level themes in the series, at least prior to Tropical Freeze. Misty Menace notably doesn't really have any clear melody at any point, despite containing repeated phrases. Personally I think it's pretty middle of the pack in the series. It's better than the notably weaker ones, but I prefer all the solo David Wise scores, ironically more for his side of the soundtrack than Eveline's. Aside from a few like Aquatic Ambiance, the themes in this game have never been my favorite work of his.

I'd order the soundtracks:
DKC2 > TF > 3 GBA > DKC1 > 3 SNES > Returns

And yeah in terms of gameplay I've seen people occasionally prefer its more "pure" straightforward platforming. It has less emphasis on throwing items, no team-up throw, no forced animal buddy sections, no crazy types of barrel cannons, almost no levels that go anything but left to right, no real need to collect anything. Though I will say that this in itself is a somewhat rose-tinted view, it's good at this sometimes, but it can get awkward when it tries for levels with a more complicated rhythm than "run and jump straight ahead, never stop", and it has plenty of slower and more cumbersome ones. The water levels in particular are god awful, amazing music aside. Worst stages in the whole series by a landslide, they have no idea what to do with the format at all, and the end of Poison Pond is such malicious bullshit. Generally, if it's outside, it's a good level, and if it's in some sort of cave, it's probably on the weaker side. Although Stop & Go Station, Mine Cart Carnage, and Slipslide Ride are notable exceptions.

The thing is I think DKC2 has better graphics, levels music etc, but I think that DK and Diddy mesh together way better than Diddy and Dixe. In DKC1 I have a reason to use both kongs, but in DKC2 I only ever want to play Dixie. Also, I hate that in DKC2 you have to pay Wrinkly to save each time. So both games have their pros and cons imo
DKC2 is actually the only game in the whole series to have a decent character balance. Donkey's advantages are almost never relevant. He runs slower, can't jump as high, and has a larger hitbox in exchange for having an easier time against a few rare enemies that only appear in a few levels. The only times I think there's an actual advantage in using him are Platform Perils and maybe Dumb Drum, Torchlight Trouble, and Elevator Antics. ...And there's the hand slap move, I guess. I usually forget that even exists.

In DKC2, Diddy is still better at pretty much everything, but Dixie has one huge advantage with her hover, which makes her much safer and can even let her pull off certain things Diddy can't. So there's an actual trade-off in picking between the two, unlike all the other games where one Kong is vastly better than the others in almost every situation. Kiddy is mostly a worse Donkey, and Returns and Tropical Freeze belong to Diddy and Dixie (or Funky) respectively.
 
I think DKC1 also has too many barrel blasting-focused levels. Snow Barrel Blast is just not fun. Those were always my least favorite level types - fun in moderation but gets old fast when it’s nonstop.
 
Not expecting DK from tonight's show unfortunately; think the timing will end up being more aligned with the theme park opening next year. Hope to be proven wrong, but i'm still going to enjoy the show with 2D Mario likely lined up for it.
 
Mekanos and others went over a lot of this, but there's a little bit of extra flair to the environments in the first game that was mostly ignored by the sequels, like the changing weather and lighting in certain levels. The sequels do it once or twice, but it's never the showpiece it was in levels like Snow Barrel Blast. Though on the other hand, it's also blurrier and more plastic-looking than the sequels, which made great strides with the 3D rendering technology.

As for the music, I guess it like all of the others has its unique qualities. It's the only one to have a meaningful split between two different composers, and I think Eveline Novakovic actually did most of her best work here rather than in 3, so her touch is really evident and important on this one. There's also a more atmospheric bent to it, a lot of themes that have a slow build to them and focus primarily on mood. I think Cave Dweller Concert and DK Island Swing are among the longest level themes in the series, at least prior to Tropical Freeze. Misty Menace notably doesn't really have any clear melody at any point, despite containing repeated phrases. Personally I think it's pretty middle of the pack in the series. It's better than the notably weaker ones, but I prefer all the solo David Wise scores, ironically more for his side of the soundtrack than Eveline's. Aside from a few like Aquatic Ambiance, the themes in this game have never been my favorite work of his.

I'd order the soundtracks:
DKC2 > TF > 3 GBA > DKC1 > 3 SNES > Returns

And yeah in terms of gameplay I've seen people occasionally prefer its more "pure" straightforward platforming. It has less emphasis on throwing items, no team-up throw, no forced animal buddy sections, no crazy types of barrel cannons, almost no levels that go anything but left to right, no real need to collect anything. Though I will say that this in itself is a somewhat rose-tinted view, it's good at this sometimes, but it can get awkward when it tries for levels with a more complicated rhythm than "run and jump straight ahead, never stop", and it has plenty of slower and more cumbersome ones. The water levels in particular are god awful, amazing music aside. Worst stages in the whole series by a landslide, they have no idea what to do with the format at all, and the end of Poison Pond is such malicious bullshit. Generally, if it's outside, it's a good level, and if it's in some sort of cave, it's probably on the weaker side. Although Stop & Go Station, Mine Cart Carnage, and Slipslide Ride are notable exceptions.


DKC2 is actually the only game in the whole series to have a decent character balance. Donkey's advantages are almost never relevant. He runs slower, can't jump as high, and has a larger hitbox in exchange for having an easier time against a few rare enemies that only appear in a few levels. The only times I think there's an actual advantage in using him are Platform Perils and maybe Dumb Drum, Torchlight Trouble, and Elevator Antics. ...And there's the hand slap move, I guess. I usually forget that even exists.

In DKC2, Diddy is still better at pretty much everything, but Dixie has one huge advantage with her hover, which makes her much safer and can even let her pull off certain things Diddy can't. So there's an actual trade-off in picking between the two, unlike all the other games where one Kong is vastly better than the others in almost every situation. Kiddy is mostly a worse Donkey, and Returns and Tropical Freeze belong to Diddy and Dixie (or Funky) respectively.
May I ask why you differentiate 3 SNES from 3 GBA (I've never been able to play 3 GBA)?

Also, in terms of balancing, I find Dixie's superiority in 2 as obvious as Diddy's in 1. Everything seems more sophisticated in 2, which is admirable, but also less "natural". And you're right, the emphasis on throws feels like Doki Doki Panic vs Mario Bros.
 
I think DKC1 also has too many barrel blasting-focused levels. Snow Barrel Blast is just not fun. Those were always my least favorite level types - fun in moderation but gets old fast when it’s nonstop.
There's only three! I think Barrel Cannon Canyon is kind of strange and unfocused with how it's the barrel cannon introduction level but also there's this alternate upper path that's only partly hidden which very easily just skips over all or most of it. But the other two are among the game's best moments. My favorite DKC2 level is also Bramble Blast, so I'm a big fan of these. Although Snow Barrel Blast's final stretch is probably the hardest thing in the entire series bar maybe some Returns Mirror Mode stuff or rocket barrel/mine cart collectibles, so it's kind of insane being where it is. The first game in general has a lot of difficulty spikes and odd balance things from what I remember, like how Mine Cart Carnage in World 2 is way harder than Mine Cart Madness in World 5, but this one is so egregious it still stands out to me even after however many playthroughs. Nobody was ever going to finish that without the shortcut. It's easier to accidentally fall into it than to actually make it through the level normally.

May I ask why you differentiate 3 SNES from 3 GBA (I've never been able to play 3 GBA)?

Also, in terms of balancing, I find Dixie's superiority in 2 as obvious as Diddy's in 1. Everything seems more sophisticated in 2, which is admirable, but also less "natural". And you're right, the emphasis on throws feels like Doki Doki Panic vs Mario Bros.
The GBA version of 3 has a completely new soundtrack for technical reasons, unlike the other ports which mostly just converted the original game's score (with maybe a few additions or substitutions, like how DKC GBC randomly has a brand new forest theme). It's obscure and controversial among those who do know it due to replacing the original, but I'm a really big fan of it.

The thing with Diddy vs Dixie in 2 is that Diddy still runs faster, jumps higher, and also has a much better roll jump that doesn't just drop as soon as it goes off the edge of a platform. It's more of a performance vs caution thing, although even in expert play I'm pretty sure Dixie's hover has its moments.

I'll also add that I think the emphasis on throwing items in 2 is an underrated element of it because it adds something the series has never had, a satisfying equivalent to Mario's blocks or Crash's crates as something to interact with and break open as you go through the level. This is a really under-analyzed and unappreciated aspect of platformer level design in general, but I'll always remember the quote about how much Crash Bandicoot improved as soon as they added the crates in. The Retro games try doing this with the stuff you pound/blow/pluck (unfortunately chicken-themed set of verbs there...), but it feels a lot more tacked-on, and Tropical Freeze cut way back on it because it was mostly just filler.
 
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3 too many! Also Vulture Culture has enough to count for 3.5 at least.
I figured that was more of a Kannon's Klaim sort of thing, which I guess is technically a barrel cannon course now that I think about it, even though it doesn't feel like one because you never really aim or time any shots. I really like Vulture Culture's mixture of actions in concept, it has a lot of interesting sections, but I think it bit off more than it could chew and a lot of parts can end up pretty jank. It feels like it should flow much better than it does. It's the sort of level that would be done way better in DKC2, although they never quite replicated the really cool but kind of broken bits where you fire out of a cannon and then land on an enemy.
 
There's only three! I think Barrel Cannon Canyon is kind of strange and unfocused with how it's the barrel cannon introduction level but also there's this alternate upper path that's only partly hidden which very easily just skips over all or most of it. But the other two are among the game's best moments. My favorite DKC2 level is also Bramble Blast, so I'm a big fan of these. Although Snow Barrel Blast's final stretch is probably the hardest thing in the entire series bar maybe some Returns Mirror Mode stuff or rocket barrel/mine cart collectibles, so it's kind of insane being where it is. The first game in general has a lot of difficulty spikes and odd balance things from what I remember, like how Mine Cart Carnage in World 2 is way harder than Mine Cart Madness in World 5, but this one is so egregious it still stands out to me even after however many playthroughs. Nobody was ever going to finish that without the shortcut. It's easier to accidentally fall into it than to actually make it through the level normally.


The GBA version of 3 has a completely new soundtrack for technical reasons, unlike the other ports which mostly just converted the original game's score (with maybe a few additions or substitutions, like how DKC GBC randomly has a brand new forest theme). It's obscure and controversial among those who do know it due to replacing the original, but I'm a really big fan of it.

The thing with Diddy vs Dixie in 2 is that Diddy still runs faster, jumps higher, and also has a much better roll jump that doesn't just drop as soon as it goes off the edge of a platform. It's more of a performance vs caution thing, although even in expert play I'm pretty sure Dixie's hover has its moments.

I'll also add that I think the emphasis on throwing items in 2 is an underrated element of it because it adds something the series has never had, a satisfying equivalent to Mario's blocks or Crash's crates as something to interact with and break open as you go through the level. This is a really under-analyzed and appreciated aspect of platformer level design in general, but I'll always remember the quote about how much Crash Bandicoot improved as soon as they added the crates in. The Retro games try doing this with the stuff you pound/blow/pluck (unfortunately chicken-themed set of verbs there...), but it feels a lot more tacked-on, and Tropical Freeze cut way back on it because it was mostly just filler.
Very interesting. I absolutely love Crash too and this element is probably one of the many reason's why, but the thing is DKC2, being a sequel, feels like a transition, a change. And maybe it's objectively for the better, but it's also a break from how DKC1 was designed.
 
Very interesting. I absolutely love Crash too and this element is probably one of the many reason's why, but the thing is DKC2, being a sequel, feels like a transition, a change. And maybe it's objectively for the better, but it's also a break from how DKC1 was designed.
I've definitely seen this sentiment before too, although I've personally never quite felt it (at the very least, its level design has way more in common with the first game than either has with 3). I feel like there's the same general intent to the level design of both games, you're meant to play them the same way, with that rhythmic flow and "go first time" design philosophy and the intent to make each level unique as the guiding force behind them. But I don't want to dismiss the sentiment either, because I think it's very Gregg Mayles, the designer of both games and the Banjos. Banjo-Tooie is more different from Banjo-Kazooie than almost any other collectathon released after it, despite being its actual sequel. You famously keep your entire moveset from the first game, but actually playing the two games is a completely different experience. Nothing about Tooie's worlds is designed in the same way it was in Kazooie's.

And I've heard him express something along the lines of not being satisfied with a sequel that's too similar or iterative in interviews on multiple occasions. I remember a particularly interesting throwaway line where he mentioned being surprised that Retro's DKC games were so similar to what they had been doing back in the 90's all these decades later. Which shocked me because as a DKC fan, they reinvent the wheel a lot more than they had to! And in some areas they even push the genre forward a bit, so the implication that they were somehow surprisingly safe or static was initially strange. But I think Nintendo series in general are known for being very dependable and making those sorts of incremental changes, but largely staying the same as they ever were. Something like Breath of the Wild that's a huge shift in format or design philosophy from what came before is rare. When you think about how that's the sort of sequel that Tooie was, and how the third Banjo game ended up being Nuts & Bolts because of a desire not to just do the same thing again, it makes more sense.
 
And I've heard him express something along the lines of not being satisfied with a sequel that's too similar or iterative in interviews on multiple occasions. I remember a particularly interesting throwaway line where he mentioned being surprised that Retro's DKC games were so similar to what they had been doing back in the 90's all these decades later. Which shocked me because as a DKC fan, they reinvent the wheel a lot more than they had to! And in some areas they even push the genre forward a bit, so the implication that they were somehow surprisingly safe or static was initially strange. But I think Nintendo series in general are known for being very dependable and making those sorts of incremental changes, but largely staying the same as they ever were. Something like Breath of the Wild that's a huge shift in format or design philosophy from what came before is rare. When you think about how that's the sort of sequel that Tooie was, and how the third Banjo game ended up being Nuts & Bolts because of a desire not to just do the same thing again, it makes more sense.
This is what Gregg was talking about btw, for anyone not in the know.



I was quite surprised in some ways that Retro haven't developed it more than they have. I mean, what they have done is great and I've loved playing every game they've done. But it still feels like the heritage of it is still rooted in the 90s. And I think there is scope to take that kind of gameplay and almost keep what was good about what it is in the 90s then look for for something that a modern audience might like that maybe we couldn't have done in the 90s.

not so surprising we never got a third "proper" banjo game from him now, huh...
 
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Nintendo releasing a DKC-inspired Mario game before an actual Donkey Kong game is something only they would do. I believe it.
When will Nintendo stop taunting us with DK and actually give us one? Why would they put him in the movie, build a theme park, and commission a bunch of Lego sets of him if they’re just going to use Mario instead?

Crossing my fingers we get something, anything tomorrow. I’ll even take another Mario vs. DK at this point
 
If we get something similar to that, that's fine, but if we also get no DK, then I would write Nintendo a very passionate letter, telling them how happy I am with them, and how good if a job they're doing handling the DK series :)
(Yeah, I know wouldn't do anything in the long run, but I would have to get the hypothetical frustration out of my system and let them know as clearly as possible what I thought, since if this happened then it would signify to me that they absolutely ARENT listening to online feedback)
 
This is the kind of rumor that I absolutely cannot put stock in until I see it for myself, lol.
 
I can think of something better than a DKC-inspired Mario game: A DKC-inspired Mario game with Donkey Kong in it. Not as a crossover between the two, just in the same capacity as Mario Kart or something. You can play as Donkey Kong just like you can play as Toad. The "Donkey Kong is being absorbed into Mario" drama would be cataclysmic.
 
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I think there's mostly a bad case of doomer mindset going around so any kind of nightmare scenario instantly seems more likely to desperate DK fans (ie; me, and Im pretty sure that accounts for some others here :p). From what I've seen everyone's been expecting to be let down as soon as the Direct got announced, myself included if Im to be completely honest. The only positive take I've seen all day was from Hyle/DK Vine but he's usually positive anyways despite not seeming confident about an announcement soon either. Realistically I think the worst case scenario is that DK just gets completely ignored yet again, which is par for the course for us by now. Time will tell though
 
I think there's mostly a bad case of doomer mindset going around so any kind of nightmare scenario instantly seems more likely to desperate DK fans (ie; me, and Im pretty sure that accounts for some others here :p). From what I've seen everyone's been expecting to be let down as soon as the Direct got announced, myself included if Im to be completely honest. The only positive take I've seen all day was from Hyle/DK Vine but he's usually positive anyways despite not seeming confident about an announcement soon either. Realistically I think the worst case scenario is that DK just gets completely ignored yet again, which is par for the course for us by now. Time will tell though
I am unsuccessfully trying to stay positive. It’s a little hard when the worst case scenario went from “no DK” to “Mario feasts on DK’s lifeless body” in just one day. Although, I guess if tomorrow ends up as yet another gut punch for us, whatever announcement we get is going to make a lot of peoples’ days.
 


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