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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Shoulder said:
Legitimately, the name "Xbox" is an awesome name for a gaming console, but the naming schemes they use are awful imo, which I think have at least partially contributed to them falling from grace since the 360 days.
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I think the Xbox 360's sales success skewed peoples view on just how successful the Xbox brand, as a console, really is. During that generation, sales between the 360 and PS3 were in a virtual tie. However, I attribute much of this sales parity to the failure of Sony with the PS3. The 360 had a year head start on the PS3 and had already sold around 7 million units by the time the PS3 launched. This shouldn't have been a big deal and Sony should have been able to catch and surpass those sales figures in a short amount of time, but........ Well Sony decided to launch the PS3 with a starting price of $500-600, costing significantly more than the 360. You even have to attribute some lost early sales for the PS3 to the Wii. The Wii was a complete phenom in its early years and I am sure some people opted for the less expensive unique motion control experience for $250 in 2006 and 2007 with the idea that they could purchase an HD console a few years later. On top of Sony's competitors having less expensive alternatives to the PS3, Sony was supply limited for its first year on the market. To makes things worse, it became evident that the 360 was every bit as powerful as the PS3, often times with multi plat games performing best on the 360.

So in conclusion I will just say that Microsoft got a lot of help with the success of the 360. If Sony hadn't stumbled with the PS3, Microsoft likely would never have seen the same level of success. They simply do not do well enough outside of the United States to sell anywhere near 100 million units, that is unless their primary competitor completely drops the ball, and Sony hasn't done that and Xbox sales seem to top out around 50 million units. They stopped reporting the numbers after it became evident that the Xbox One sales were getting trounced by the PS4, but the sales trajectory certainly suggest the Xbox One never sold over 50 million units and the Series consoles do not seem to be fairing any better.
 
Hermii said:
MS are just terrified of being behind Sony in the numbering.

Imo they should have called 360 Xbox 3 (where is 2? who cares it's just a name), and continued with straight numbering from there.
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They literally wanted to originally call it the Xbox 3, but someone at Microsoft told them that having an Xbox 3 without an Xbox 2 would be stupid.
 
Lugia667 said:
I mean this the same company that skipped Windows 9 for uhhhhhh reasons?
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"reasons" being (as far as I've read) so as to not cause compatibility issues with programs that have code looking for "Windows version = 9x" due to the existence of Windows 95 and 98
 
chocolate_supra said:
"reasons" being (as far as I've read) so as to not cause compatibility issues with programs that have code looking for "Windows version = 9x" due to the existence of Windows 95 and 98
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The one I heard was marketing, they wanted to use the brand "One", like OneDrive and Xbox One, but "Windows One" would have caused problems because of... Windows 1.0

So they went with 10, instead, because it gives the same idea of wholeness.

Honestly I don't think numbers are a smart idea for Xbox, their branding isn't nearly as bad as you'd think, people seem to understand that "Xbox Series X|S is current gen, X is more powerful, S is affordable.

PlayStation's ability to use numbers is sort of its own luck, and we see that the handhelds from PlayStation didn't have the same luck with branding.

What can Microsoft do? Adopt "Xbox 5" for next gen? Why not Xbox 25, Xbox 30! Heck, it would be the 8th actual Xbox GPU configuration, why not Xbox 8!

The numbers just don't work for their brand, this gen they've tried to work with just "Xbox", with the "Series" referring to all Xbox hardware and the letter to a formfactor/performance profile. Xbox Series S is not unpopular, and I dont think that's in spite of its brand.

Let Sony have numbers, Xbox needs its own thing. Especially since the internal number for Xbox Series X is its generation, 9... And going from Xbox X to Xbox 10 would be a bad brand!

For Nintendo, I think a similar situation is presented, numbers are probably not ideal, they just don't have a history of it, and are probably better off with Super or some other prefix, keeping it consistent where a prefix is a compatibility break, and a suffix is a formfactor.
 
redmutineer75 said:
They literally wanted to originally call it the Xbox 3, but someone at Microsoft told them that having an Xbox 3 without an Xbox 2 would be stupid.
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That Board member clearly has no math skills: 360

6 / 3 = 2. Add 0, and you get 2. So Xbox 360 was clearly Xbox 2 when you do the Math right.

tenor.gif
 
MP! said:
we're currently on the xbox 1440
Which seems appropriate
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God, imagine if the S and X were called 1440 and 2160 respectively.

I'm not sure that's a better brand at all hahaha.

Imagine Nintendo Switch 2 being called "1080 2160".
 
CalmMind said:
With that said, a dock that included it's own separate T239 that provided an extra boost to hardware performance without the need of a separate developer profile would satisfy the few who primarily play in docked mode.
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Docking/undocking would really not be possible, or so highly complex and costly that it pushes Nintendo right out of the market. You can't just put the SoC into the dock and route everything to it over the skimpy connection between the device itself and the dock. USB4 using PAM-3 encoding in asymmetrical mode is only capable of ~15GB/s, when the LPDDR5 RAM to be used can go up to 102.4GB/s. So now you would have to add RAM to the dock, and even then, attempt to provide some kind of synchronization whenever the system is docked, which is definitely not going to be instant. But when it's undocked, how would the SoC in the device itself know what to do if everything had been routed to the dock? So now, they'd basically have to have 2 systems running at the exact same time. One in the device, and one in the dock, and maintain synchronization, still using the skimpy connection that's still not fast enough...

Simply not possible. At this point, might as well make a TV-only console.
 
The idea of a separate co processor for the dock feels like people grasping at straws.

The best solution is what we have on Switch.. And the best way to improve docked performance is to design the dock and the cooling solution to allow for higher stable clocks
 
Brofield said:
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Going all the way down to 360p before upscaling on what is rumored to be an extremely large handheld screen could definitely destroy a lot of visual content intended by the developer.
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360->1080p DLSS is definitely a suboptimal stretch, but I think it could still result in as close to a good 1080p image as most big third party Switch 1 games have been at getting close to a good 720p.
Kingchin said:
Plenty of room for Nintendo if they do in the future bring back a home console. It's going to eventually happen.
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Why? As we move further into an era of diminishing returns there's just less reason to stick with stationary devices in general. If they're not doing it today, then deciding to return home in a future time when their portable unit could have PS5+ capabilities seems even less likely.
 
9-Volt said:
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I don't think the solution to making something less mocked than the RDR1 port is to make sure it's also as late as the RDR1 port. That RDR1 port would've been a lot more accepted if it was a launch game, 1.5 years before RDR2 was out.
 
Shoulder said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I want to say the original GTAV trailer was also one of those "Wow, look at those graphics!" type games, and then the PS3 and 360 ended up not looking as good until the PC version launched, followed by the next-gen updates for PS5, and XSeries.

I think the GTAVI trailer is of a similar vain. The PS5 and XSeries versions may not actually look like the trailer. In a previous post, I even mentioned I think Rockstar will be targeting 30fps for PS5, and XSeries, which unfortunately would make the prospect of a Switch 2 conversion less likely, though certainly not impossible. Switcher 3 was proved possible, and that is also 30fps on PS4/Xbone.
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While I'm not expecting it... The advantage of having it is more time/dedicated optimization to make impossible ports work. I'm sure GTA VI in some capacity will be possible, but at what cost is my question. If 30fps works, Draw distance, less NPCS for sure from a CPU bottleneck.

Was the Witcher 3 really even a CPU bottleneck? I heard it was more GPU than CPU I'd have to dig up a DF article/video on that.
ExoticSpice said:
If SD2 is a 2025 product it will likely be based on Zen 5 with TSMC N3/N4 and RDNA4 GPU. It will have a much faster CPU, the A78 is pretty weak by 2024.
CPU is important for frames and population density.

GPU might be faster in RT if RDNA4 has RT cores. A wait and see.
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Would not surprise me if we get CPU to match Series S on SD2.
Lugia667 said:
PS5 Pro, 2025, Steam Deck AND Pokemon discourse all in one day? You have truly outdone yourselves this time eh?
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I'm predicting Pokemon Black and White remakes next year (just in time for Switch 2 release). Hopefully its better than Gen 4 remakes.

PS5 Pro is looking like a carbon copy of PS4 Pro in terms of leap. 2x GPU, potentially up to 30% boost in CPU.. Obviously more RAM and RAM bandwidth But the main focus would apparently be (to no surprise here), improve performance, keep a more consistent 4k resolution, 8k performance mode (gotta advertise them 8k TVs somehow), and improved RT performance.
Concernt said:
I have to wonder why they're so damn determined not to have anything leak. Burned by the leaks of the original Switch interfering with their messaging? Not wanting open floodgates limiting Switch 1 sales?
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Every company hates their products being leaked. Leaks can cost a lot of money to said company, because they steal a company's ability to properly introduce their product and build hype, can make investors lose confidence in the company they invested in, and could impact sales from consumers. And it causes a lot of legal headache.

The only people who benefit from leaks are fans, and the ones that leak information for money. The fame is short-lived, if that's what they're seeking. Nintendo was right to bring in the ninjas for the pokemon games, and smash 4/ultimate. I don't blame them. People who leak know exactly what they're getting themselves into, or at least should.

As a fan, I like hearing about hardware leaks. But I get if I worked for a company and someone leaked stuff about our product, I'd likely be pissed too.
Procheno said:
Here's a screenshot of a comment someone made on the other website:
Jsk1OWB.jpg
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While not surprising, it's nice to hear they acknowledge it.
Mr.Gamerson said:
So 8 A78C clocked at 2.6ghz should be enough to down port GTA 6 right? DO IT NINTENDO!!!

I wonder how high the CPU could be clocked and how much gpu performance would have to be sacrificed, while still having enough gpu performance to at least do 720p dlss docked?

How would you guys feel if getting GTA 6 on Switch meant only 1.5 to 2hrs of battery life in handheld mode? I personally would welcome it.
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I'm not sure if A78c clocks are theoretically possible to go that high and consistently on 7 cores. Regular A78 CPU cores on handheld can go up to 2 .4 to 3.0 GHz on handheld/mobile, and 3.0-3.3Ghz on tablets/laptops . Even if they are, balancing GPU clocks, the rest of the SOC, thermals, and battery life will be considered. And I don't see Nintendo going for a lower battery life than OG Switch. OG battery life at least.

Even though they are A78E CPUs, The Tegra Orion AGX models are a good reference at what would should expect (2.0-2.2Ghz) in the absolute best case scenario.
I don't think anyone here can confidently say for sure we will get 2.0Ghz CPU on 7 cores, with a 3 TFLOPs GPU. Only time will tell. I'm not expecting it

Cuzizkool said:
There are times when I ashamedly imagine a world where Apple acquired Nintendo and Switch 2 would be powered by M3. 🫣
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Two more words: Hell no. I really detest Apple having a stronghold monopoly on TSMC.
 
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Dakhil said:
I don't know about that.

Assuming Drake's fabricated using TSMC's 4N process node, I don't think the improvements TSMC's N3E process node brings over TSMC's 4N process node are going to be significant, especially as the SRAM size on TSMC's N3E process node is exactly the same as on TSMC's N5 process node family (including TSMC's 4N process node), and SRAM takes a huge chunk of space on SoCs, which TSMC's projections don't necessarily take into account.
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Devil's advocate argument.

if Steam Deck OLED can do it, I think it's possible for a Switch 2 revision to get up to 50% battery life like the former

I'm not sure how much more power efficient 6nm is vs 7nm TSMC (maybe it's the same as 3nm vs 4nm), but having an OLED Screen, a bigger battery, and few other things to lower the power draw could make it substantial enough boost to battery life.
 
Langstonboy said:
Yes a Japanese company using Korean music because they’re definitely best buds like urge United States and Russia!
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That's a little bit silly since Samsung is from Korea and Nintendo are using Samsung technology for the new system. There is a little bit of leeway there to use "Light it up like Dynamite" for the comedic effect of the Ninja Turtles breaking into someone's house and beating them up.
 
Goodtwin said:
I think the Xbox 360's sales success skewed peoples view on just how successful the Xbox brand, as a console, really is. During that generation, sales between the 360 and PS3 were in a virtual tie. However, I attribute much of this sales parity to the failure of Sony with the PS3. The 360 had a year head start on the PS3 and had already sold around 7 million units by the time the PS3 launched. This shouldn't have been a big deal and Sony should have been able to catch and surpass those sales figures in a short amount of time, but........ Well Sony decided to launch the PS3 with a starting price of $500-600, costing significantly more than the 360. You even have to attribute some lost early sales for the PS3 to the Wii. The Wii was a complete phenom in its early years and I am sure some people opted for the less expensive unique motion control experience for $250 in 2006 and 2007 with the idea that they could purchase an HD console a few years later. On top of Sony's competitors having less expensive alternatives to the PS3, Sony was supply limited for its first year on the market. To makes things worse, it became evident that the 360 was every bit as powerful as the PS3, often times with multi plat games performing best on the 360.

So in conclusion I will just say that Microsoft got a lot of help with the success of the 360. If Sony hadn't stumbled with the PS3, Microsoft likely would never have seen the same level of success. They simply do not do well enough outside of the United States to sell anywhere near 100 million units, that is unless their primary competitor completely drops the ball, and Sony hasn't done that and Xbox sales seem to top out around 50 million units. They stopped reporting the numbers after it became evident that the Xbox One sales were getting trounced by the PS4, but the sales trajectory certainly suggest the Xbox One never sold over 50 million units and the Series consoles do not seem to be fairing any better.
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Also worth mentioning, Microsoft fumbled the back half of the gen hard by focusing on Kinect. After Halo Reach, killer exclusives died off on 360, while PS3 kept building up a library of stuff.
 
SwitchEmUp said:
That's a little bit silly since Samsung is from Korea and Nintendo are using Samsung technology for the new system. There is a little bit of leeway there to use "Light it up like Dynamite" for the comedic effect of the Ninja Turtles breaking into someone's house and beating them up.
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and I'm pretty sure k-pop is also popular in japan.

ShadowFox08 said:
Even though they are A78E CPUs, The Tegra Orion AGX models are a good reference at what would should expect (2.0-2.2Ghz) in the absolute best case scenario.
I don't think anyone here can confidently say for sure we will get 2.0Ghz CPU on 7 cores, with a 3 TFLOPs GPU. Only time will tell. I'm not expecting it
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2GHz is higher than what I'm even expecting. that said, on 4N, it's definitely doable, I think
 
My impression is that the Switch port of RDR1 wasn't the target of criticism. That's not a bad port at all. There was just frustration that there wasn't a greater overhaul on the other platforms.
 
Discostew said:
Docking/undocking would really not be possible, or so highly complex and costly that it pushes Nintendo right out of the market. You can't just put the SoC into the dock and route everything to it over the skimpy connection between the device itself and the dock. USB4 using PAM-3 encoding in asymmetrical mode is only capable of ~15GB/s, when the LPDDR5 RAM to be used can go up to 102.4GB/s. So now you would have to add RAM to the dock, and even then, attempt to provide some kind of synchronization whenever the system is docked, which is definitely not going to be instant. But when it's undocked, how would the SoC in the device itself know what to do if everything had been routed to the dock? So now, they'd basically have to have 2 systems running at the exact same time. One in the device, and one in the dock, and maintain synchronization, still using the skimpy connection that's still not fast enough...

Simply not possible. At this point, might as well make a TV-only console.
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you forget that there is a reason why components got closer and closer to eachother, to keep the signals in sync with faster and faster transmission rates...

Yeah, not really feasible, it would effectively be 2 switches, and on dock one switch effectively checks the state of the other, sees that game is running, downloads the current ram and streams the game from the console as if it would read it from storage -> rather expensive and really pointless.
 
ShadowFox08 said:
Devil's advocate argument.

if Steam Deck OLED can do it, I think it's possible for a Switch 2 revision to get up to 50% battery life like the former

I'm not sure how much more power efficient 6nm is vs 7nm TSMC (maybe it's the same as 3nm vs 4nm), but having an OLED Screen, a bigger battery, and few other things to lower the power draw could make it substantial enough boost to battery life.
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TSMC N6 is an optical shrink of N7 and is IP compatible, so you can reuse the same design made for N7 to be fabbed on N6. And TSMC also wants to move on all their N7 customers to N6 because N6 is cheaper to be fabbed for them. That's why AMD and Valve were able to shrink Aerith from N7 to Sephiroth on N6 (And also gave them the opportunity to remove the AI cores to save on area).

N5/N4, N3, N2 are all fully different nodes with different PDKs and processes and are IP incompatible with each other. Any shrink from one node to the other will require a full redesign. And that's without talking about the rising costs of each node, marginal gains, etc.
 
bixente said:
My impression is that the Switch port of RDR1 wasn't the target of criticism. That's not a bad port at all. There was just frustration that there wasn't a greater overhaul on the other platforms.
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This. Also now the Switch version with fixes (only portable + amazing port) and the PS4 version on PS5 (only version at 60fps and better looking) are objectively the best ways to play RDR1 so in the end IDK what people are still mad about.
 
ziggyrivers said:
My sentiments exactly. It’s like Nintendo’s Legal Department is on par with Disney’s: everyone’s scared.



Why at CES, tho? Isn’t the video game business not so present?



Exactly. Plus that type of revision is usually for the more hardcore crowd. The PS5 Pro isn’t like a Switch OLED: it’s pretty much for everyone



No, especially since Nintendo devices have been companion devices for years (a Nintendo console sharing household with a Sony/Microsoft one).
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I know for a fact they are unfortunately. My neck of the woods frequently gets visited by not only tech company lawyers but SEC folk. I know two guys now that have been investigated for alleged insider trading regarding Nintendo. The stock itself has broken out of a channel on the chart (Like I mentioned it would months ago on here) and lots of eyes are on Nintendo's situation with upcoming hardware close to releasing, leaks from august, and the previously mentioned stock movements. Its why I am posting less honestly.
 
Brofield said:
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bloopland33 said:
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