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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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ShadowFox08 said:
2024 is pretty much a shoe in at this point. The Switch will be more than 7 years old when switch 2 releases, which is unheard of from any console manufacturer, let alone Nintendo. Nintendo has never lasted this long on the home front, and I can't seem them try after 8 years.
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Nintendo's current record for a home machine is Famicom to Super Famicom at over 7 years, but A) that's just one region and B) Switch catches up to that on July 10, 2024 anyway.
 
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Superstarxalien said:
apologies in advance for talking about this guy

launch 16 feb 2024
pocket size console
150 euros
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Worth noting that these are predictions, not even a rumour.

While I'd like to see Nintendo go full GameBoy Micro on the Switch and make it as small as possible, realistically you're not going to get anything smaller or cheaper than the Switch Lite unless they do another die shrink of the TX1, which seems unlikely at this point. A die shrink (presumably to TSMC's 6nm process) would probably allow them to remove the active cooling, which would reduce cost and size, but it's a large up front expense for a device introduced right at the tail end of the console's life, with limited sales potential.
 
Thraktor said:
Worth noting that these are predictions, not even a rumour.

While I'd like to see Nintendo go full GameBoy Micro on the Switch and make it as small as possible, realistically you're not going to get anything smaller or cheaper than the Switch Lite unless they do another die shrink of the TX1, which seems unlikely at this point. A die shrink (presumably to TSMC's 6nm process) would probably allow them to remove the active cooling, which would reduce cost and size, but it's a large up front expense for a device introduced right at the tail end of the console's life, with limited sales potential.
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it's a lot simpler than die size... text size is already a big issue
 
gamerguy said:
it's a lot simpler than die size... text size is already a big issue
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A lot of folks skip over this. Switch Lite literally has a zoom in/magnifying glass feature built-in due to text size making it harder or outright impossible to be read in a lot of games. And somewhat they want an even smaller screen...

Anyway, Switch Lite is already very close in size to PS Vita. No reason for Nintendo to do a Switch Micro.
0shkqc84ok4a1.jpg


Besides, if Nintendo wanted to drop Lite prices, they would only need to drop the charger and reduce the box size. Dropping the charger and making the box smaller would save on logistics costs, making it feasible to drop prices.

The only reason ever a N6 shrink of TX1+ would ever happen to allow a Switch Micro would be if T239 is fabbed on N6 and Nvidia/Nintendo wanted to move on from N16 and unify everything into the same process.
 
Thraktor said:
Worth noting that these are predictions, not even a rumour.

While I'd like to see Nintendo go full GameBoy Micro on the Switch and make it as small as possible, realistically you're not going to get anything smaller or cheaper than the Switch Lite unless they do another die shrink of the TX1, which seems unlikely at this point. A die shrink (presumably to TSMC's 6nm process) would probably allow them to remove the active cooling, which would reduce cost and size, but it's a large up front expense for a device introduced right at the tail end of the console's life, with limited sales potential.
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Would a node shrink to 6nm be cheaper per chip fabbed?
 
gamerguy said:
it's a lot simpler than die size... text size is already a big issue
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This. And not even just text size, the games just arent designed with that small a screen in mind, games like BOTW would be nigh unplayable if they looked like this. You just cant see the stuff youre meant to see

RtOcrF5.jpg
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
A lot of folks skip over this. Switch Lite literally has a zoom in/magnifying glass feature built-in due to text size making it harder or outright impossible to be read in a lot of games. And somewhat they want an even smaller screen...

Anyway, Switch Lite is already very close in size to PS Vita. No reason for Nintendo to do a Switch Micro.
0shkqc84ok4a1.jpg


Besides, if Nintendo wanted to drop Lite prices, they would only need to drop the charger and reduce the box size. Dropping the charger and making the box smaller would save on logistics costs, making it feasible to drop prices.

The only reason ever a N6 shrink of TX1+ would ever happen to allow a Switch Micro would be if T239 is fabbed on N6 and Nvidia/Nintendo wanted to move on from N16 and unify everything into the same process.
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I have an OG switch, not a lite, and my old eyes struggle all the time.

The zoom feature is really good, but it's not solving the problem. Depending on the game, trying to zoom in and out constantly makes some games unplayable in handheld mode.

A Switch mini in just not feasable. Maybe if it was a launch unit and games were designed around it.
 
Foltzie said:
Would a node shrink to 6nm be cheaper per chip fabbed?
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No one can answer this without doing a design simulation of T214 on N6. I can only provide a short answer for now, but there's a limit on how much you can shrink things. It's not as simple as "fab on modern node and it becomes smaller and more energy-efficient". It could be even that N6 provide barely any benefit or catastrophic yield on N6 become much worse than N16.
 
gamerguy said:
it's a lot simpler than die size... text size is already a big issue
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Well I did say GameBoy Micro! That 2 inch screen wasn't exactly built for text-heavy games.

To be honest, the only way I think a Switch Micro makes sense is if, like the GameBoy Micro, it's aimed mainly at existing Switch owners who would buy it as a second (or third or fourth) unit. They'd know what to expect in terms of playability on a smaller screen, and would stick to the games which work well on it, leaving the rest for their regular Switch. I wouldn't want to play Switch RPGs on a ~5 inch screen, but games like Mario Bros Wonder, Mario Kart, NSO games, etc. would work well enough on it.
 
Thraktor said:
Well I did say GameBoy Micro! That 2 inch screen wasn't exactly built for text-heavy games.

To be honest, the only way I think a Switch Micro makes sense is if, like the GameBoy Micro, it's aimed mainly at existing Switch owners who would buy it as a second (or third or fourth) unit. They'd know what to expect in terms of playability on a smaller screen, and would stick to the games which work well on it, leaving the rest for their regular Switch. I wouldn't want to play Switch RPGs on a ~5 inch screen, but games like Mario Bros Wonder, Mario Kart, NSO games, etc. would work well enough on it.
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gameboy games weren't exactly text heavy to start with
 
gamerguy said:
gameboy games weren't exactly text heavy to start with
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The GameBoy Micro was a version of the GBA, not the original GameBoy (it's actually not compatible with original GameBoy games, as it happens). There were plenty of text-heavy RPGs on the GBA.
 
gamerguy said:
it's a lot simpler than die size... text size is already a big issue
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As long as it's not replacing all other models, it wouldn't have to be acceptable to everyone for every use case. On a 5" screen I could still play bordered GBA games with a screen an inch bigger than on a real GBA.
 
Mr.Gamerson said:
I thought the reveal presentation for Switch was like a 7/10, luckily Nintendo had BOTW and Mario Kart in the launch window. Games being improved on Switch 2 with BC + Some really great presentations/Directs leading to their first major system seller for Switch 2 should hold Nintendo over for a few months if they decide to launch in the spring or summer without anything guaranteed seller.
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why would they launch without a launch title i can't understand why this would even be a possibility at this stage. just put it out there with BC & some third party titles, seriously? they'd be better off delaying the system than not having a definitive game on day 1.

i keep seeing this line of thinking repeated - Nintendo could/would launch without a system seller but why would they do this? makes absolutely no sense.
 
Thraktor said:
The GameBoy Micro was a version of the GBA, not the original GameBoy (it's actually not compatible with original GameBoy games, as it happens). There were plenty of text-heavy RPGs on the GBA.
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I owned one. Gba games, even rpg's, had far less text than the average Switch game/menu/character screen. GBA text was typically bubbly handheld text designed for the small screen, not PC/Console ports.

Who am I to say what every consumer would find acceptable/playable. Maybe the fact that it would be a 'micro' product would clue consumers in.

If I worked at Nintendo, and it were up to me... it would be a non-starter.
 
HankyPanky said:
i keep seeing this line of thinking repeated - Nintendo could/would launch without a system seller but why would they do this? it's utterly bizarre.
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They won't. People are drinking too much Kool aid from MS Xbox strategy. Xbox was able to release XSeries without a massive FP system seller because they don't have any IP of significance or that is a mass-seller. The only IPs that could somewhat fall into these lines are Halo and Gears, but these two are only popular in US and are on a downward trend anyway. It's why MS had to buy Bethesda and ABK to have attractive IPs to their GP strategy. Because otherwise...

There's is a reason why Xbox is known as 3P box. You don't buy one because of their FP games.
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
They won't. People are drinking too much Kool aid from MS Xbox strategy. Xbox was able to release XSeries without a massive FP system seller because they don't have any IP of significance or that is a mass-seller. The only IPs that could somewhat fall into these lines are Halo and Gears, but these two are only popular in US and are on a downward trend anyway. It's why MS had to buy Bethesda and ABK to have attractive IPs to their GP strategy. Because otherwise...

There's is a reason why Xbox is known as 3P box. You don't buy one because of their FP games.
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if we got the new Switch late 2022 or 2023 then cross-gen launch titles would have been much more palettable. i don't buy that a cross-gen MP4 will be the lead game either, let alone launching with no big first party game. they've had literally years to get something ready, the system isn't going to release without a splash unless they've learned nothing from past failures.

personally i'm not buying the new system to play Switch 1 games in higher resolution either, if it does that's a bonus but it doesn't sell me and i'm sure most people the system. exclusive Nintendo games sell the system, you've waited 8 years you have to (sure they will) start the new generation off with a bang.
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
A lot of folks skip over this. Switch Lite literally has a zoom in/magnifying glass feature built-in due to text size making it harder or outright impossible to be read in a lot of games. And somewhat they want an even smaller screen...

Anyway, Switch Lite is already very close in size to PS Vita. No reason for Nintendo to do a Switch Micro.
0shkqc84ok4a1.jpg


Besides, if Nintendo wanted to drop Lite prices, they would only need to drop the charger and reduce the box size. Dropping the charger and making the box smaller would save on logistics costs, making it feasible to drop prices.

The only reason ever a N6 shrink of TX1+ would ever happen to allow a Switch Micro would be if T239 is fabbed on N6 and Nvidia/Nintendo wanted to move on from N16 and unify everything into the same process.
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1. I forgot how small the Lite already is. It's pretty much at the limit for comfortable holding and viewing and they have the flip cover case if you're desperate to drag it around without a seperate carrying case.

1. Now I'm thinking about the truly absurd: Tegra X1++... On 4N. An absurdly small chip that they could shove into any format they like! It won't happen, but it's kind of fun to think about. At that point it's practically epoxy blob level tiny, it wouldn't even be reasonable to work with.
 
uncleoptimus said:
What sales volumes would justify the cost of the die shrink?

Nintendo wants to move another 20-30 million Switches right, maybe thats enough incentive to prompt such a move.
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Ain't no way Nintendo sells 20-30 million mini switches. A quick google search shows that the New 2DS XL and GameBoy Micro sold ~4.5 million and ~2.4 million respectively. Switch mini gets 5 million max (if it exists).
 
Concernt said:
1. I forgot how small the Lite already is. It's pretty much at the limit for comfortable holding and viewing and they have the flip cover case if you're desperate to drag it around without a seperate carrying case.

1. Now I'm thinking about the truly absurd: Tegra X1++... On 4N. An absurdly small chip that they could shove into any format they like! It won't happen, but it's kind of fun to think about. At that point it's practically epoxy blob level tiny, it wouldn't even be reasonable to work with.
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I'm going to sleep, but before:
IMG_7480.jpg


Credits to @AshiodyneFX

Really folks, Switch Lite is already at the limit of comfort x usability. It's way smaller that a lot of you all think.
 
carbvan said:
Ain't no way Nintendo sells 20-30 million mini switches. A quick google search shows that the New 2DS XL and GameBoy Micro sold ~4.5 million and ~2.4 million respectively. Switch mini gets 5 million max (if it exists).
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I don't see it happening for Switch 1, but with T239 on 4N already smaller than Mariko, I could see the NG Lite (with no node shrink) aiming for a smaller formfactor than the current Lite using in-line shoulder buttons, stacked SOC and heat sink and a tiny bezel... And digital only, to save even more space. It would have more of a purpose, too, since NG Switch is likely to be noticeably larger than the current Switch.
 
No need for a Switch Micro, just a Switch Lite Deluxe with Hall Effect Joystick and docked mode (dock sold separately).
This would be the only way to release a new Switch 1 model without further shrinking the TX1.
 
majimazio said:
No need for a Switch Micro, just a Switch Lite Deluxe with Hall Effect Joystick and docked mode (dock sold separately).
This would be the only way to release a new Switch 1 model without further shrinking the TX1.
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I absolutely disagree with it being the "only" way. If they release a new SKU and it isn't some TV only model, I'd expect it to be a severely cost reduced V3, rather than a Lite Deluxe.
 
uncleoptimus said:
What sales volumes would justify the cost of the die shrink?

Nintendo wants to move another 20-30 million Switches right, maybe thats enough incentive to prompt such a move.
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They don't announce goals like that beyond the current fiscal year. But considering Lite took about 4 years to reach 20 million and is currently at about 2.5m/year, I doubt a Micro would be pushing large numbers.
Ghostsonplanets said:
I'm going to sleep, but before:
IMG_7480.jpg


Credits to @AshiodyneFX

Really folks, Switch Lite is already at the limit of comfort x usability. It's way smaller that a lot of you all think.
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So it's noticeably bigger than the GBA model they dumped two years in in favor of a more pocketable version.
 
majimazio said:
I think TV only model should be done with Switch 2.
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I dont think a TV only model is ever going to happen. For a large portion of Switch users, particularly in Japan, handheld mode is favored the most. Making a model that removes that would undercut the appeal of the system drastically.

The Switch's two revisions, Lite and OLED basically only catered to portable gamers and did nothing for docked, yet they still sold amazingly well. I dont think Nintendo is interested in repeating the Playstation TV scenario
 
May as well point out that one possible reason to introduce Switch Micro into the market is if they intend to let these Switch Micros be used as optional Switch 2 controllers.
 
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I cannot see any possible way a switch micro could exist given they'd still have lites in stock to clear out and any price cuts from using a smaller body would be minimal (plastic is cheap and the current lite panel is also already pretty cheap). Cutting the size should also make this device's battery even worse than the lite.

At a lower price, not only would it cannibalize the lite, the price reduction to somewhere around ~150 would most likely not be possible to begin with.

EVEN IF we had a situation where the micro would replace the lite (kinda like ps5 fat vs ps5 slim), the aforementioned conditions make it a really tough sell.

A tv-only switch home at 99-125$ with a pro controller or joycons+grip would probably do well at developing markets such as South America and India.
 
Switch Micro could work if it kept the Lite’s screen size with almost no bezels, but the pain (literally) would be the handheld ergonomics. Talk about hand cramps. I don’t believe this for a second, but maybe a bezel-less Lite screen in a clamshell design with the controls on the lower half. But even then… I don’t know how that would feel.
 
Cuzizkool said:
Switch Micro could work if it kept the Lite’s screen size with almost no bezels, but the pain (literally) would be the handheld ergonomics. Talk about hand cramps. I don’t believe this for a second, but maybe a bezel-less Lite screen in a clamshell design with the controls on the lower half. But even then… I don’t know how that would feel.
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Exactly my thougts. Basically a Lite SP.
 
TLZ said:
Is this guy bullshitting? I've seen these magnetic covers and changeable caps in a recent video for a mobile phone controller. Did he just watch that and make this up here as well?
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He's just fantasizing. The magnetic covers come from a patent:
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Remember when the Vita included a 3G modem as an option.

Do we think another company will ever do this again.

Probably not, right.
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A lot of work would have to be done country by country to find partnerships among the local operators.
I can't see Nintendo doing this ever.
 
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I know its intresting talking about a Switch Micro.... but

Personaly im a little bit confused why Nintendo didnt shadowdrop a Switch TV in oktober for 150 euros with a pro-controller. It would be easy pick up for parents and extreme late adopters who dont care about handheld mode. It would also sell big software sales imo.
They could even make the device digital only with a option to buy a SD cart with it.

And also make the device small enough so it would fit in a bag. So you can take the device with you like a Switch.
 
FrisianFellow said:
I know its intresting talking about a Switch Micro.... but

Personaly im a little bit confused why Nintendo didnt shadowdrop a Switch TV in oktober for 150 euros with a pro-controller. It would be easy pick up for parents and extreme late adopters who dont care about handheld mode. It would also sell big software sales imo.
They could even make the device digital only with a option to buy a SD cart with it.

And also make the device small enough so it would fit in a bag. So you can take the device with you like a Switch.
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I would have killed for a TV only model especially if it had a slight overclock on it. They already had one Switch that couldn’t Switch with the Switch Lite so it wouldn’t have been too crazy.
 
If a clam shell design with bigger screen would cost more to make than the Lite than I doubt Nintendo would do it at this stage. I’m not really sure what the audience would be for it to be honest, even for a general Micro as well. You wouldn’t want a screen smaller than a regular Lite on a Micro (some games are hard to see/read already) and if you’re making the controls smaller then it’s not going to be great to hold.

As for a Switch 2 Lite being smaller than a Switch Lite… heh.
 
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yusufied said:
I would have killed for a TV only model especially if it had a slight overclock on it. They already had one Switch that couldn’t Switch with the Switch Lite so it wouldn’t have been too crazy.
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There would be no overclock, that ship sailed in 2019 when Mariko released with the same clock as Erista.
 
There may still be another Switch 1 revision before it fully dies, but it's definitely not happening in 2024, let alone as soon as February. We'd find out via firmware datamining first.
 
If they did a Switch TV, would they be able to passively cool it without a heat pipe or fan just with airflow design built around a very low power home console.

If you cut the joycons, screen, battery, fan, and heat pipe, you can shrink the console pretty throughly and lower the price without doing a node shrink.
 
YolkFolk said:
If a clam shell design with bigger screen would cost more to make than the Lite than I doubt Nintendo would do it at this stage. I’m not really sure what the audience would be for it to be honest, even for a general Micro as well. You wouldn’t want a screen smaller than a regular Lite (some games are hard to see/read already) and if you’re making the controls smaller then it’s not going to be great to hold.

As for a Switch 2 Lite being smaller than a Switch Lite… heh.
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The screen wouldn‘t need to be smaller though. It could be even bigger. The 3ds xl top screen would be about 7“ without bezels.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
If they did a Switch TV, would they be able to passively cool it without a heat pipe or fan just with airflow design built around a very low power home console.

If you cut the joycons, screen, battery, fan, and heat pipe, you can shrink the console pretty throughly and lower the price without doing a node shrink.
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Shield TV and Shield TV Pro with TX1+ have fans.
It would be impossible to have them run fanless without node shrink.

 
YolkFolk said:
That part was in reference to a micro.

Clam shell was more about the potential for it to cost more to develop than a Lite.
Click to expand...

Sorry, misunderstanding on my side.
I actually don‘t expect a Switch Micro myself, but a camshell design would come in handy for a potential Switch 2 Lite (SP).
 
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