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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

why are people so pessimistic about Nintendo in general? Like why do people hate? Seems irrational to hate a company because it’s “one gen” behind the rest of the consoles.
Pessimism and hate are not the same thing.

Many people like nintendo's games, but are understandably pessimistic/worried about their hardware because of how underpowered the Wii, WiiU, and 3DS were compared to the hardware released by competitors around the same time and still see the Switch as an exception to that pattern.
 
why are people so pessimistic about Nintendo in general? Like why do people hate? Seems irrational to hate a company because it’s “one gen” behind the rest of the consoles.
because they trough, it too unreal too unintendo, to do a console with the graphical/techinal specs/ perfomance, the Eurogamer/VGC reports are implying
 
Nothing.
Seriously, nothing.
Verge releases the court documents from Activision trial, finds the claims of Switch 2's speculated power profile in there.

This is, of course, completely ignoring the recent Gamescom murmurs and claims by VGC backed by Eurogamer.
Oh wow, it literally was nothing (grand). Ok then, carry on. Thank you by the way for bringing me up to speed!
 
The number of people that buys over the top action games for their story are probably.. not that many :p
I dont think it would make a huge difference in sale if the story was even great tbh.

I'd definitely replay the Bayonetta games if ever remastered though
Bayonetta 3 in particular drew much more controversy from its story that's somehow even worse than what you'd normally expect from Platinum, so more than you'd think.
 
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Pessimism and hate are not the same thing.

Many people like nintendo's games, but are understandably pessimistic/worried about their hardware because of how underpowered the Wii, WiiU, and 3DS were compared to the hardware released by competitors around the same time and still see the Switch as an exception to that pattern.
At this point, I don't think many of those people think that the Switch was an exception, at least not now. Back in 2017, it was pretty powerful for its class as a handheld, and I do think that it was seen by many as Nintendo having more powerful hardware than they used to, especially with ports like Doom and the Witcher 3. But now, I don't think many people think that anymore because they stopped comparing the Switch to the PS4/Xbox One, and started comparing it subconsiously to the PS5/Xbox Series X, which naturally appears more unfavorable. Or nowadays, they might compare it to the Steam Deck/ROG Ally, which are more powerful due to being newer machines. And so, they retroactively believe that the Switch was always weak hardware.
 
Pessimism and hate are not the same thing.

Many people like nintendo's games, but are understandably pessimistic/worried about their hardware because of how underpowered the Wii, WiiU, and 3DS were compared to the hardware released by competitors around the same time and still see the Switch as an exception to that pattern.
And some don’t even see the Switch as an exception to the rule considering most people online see Switch more as a PS360 than a PS4.

They expect Nintendo to be a full console generation behind so when they hear that their new console is running perhaps the most impressive tech showcase revealed so far this gen at better quality than the big two they are either genuinely sceptical (which I don’t blame considering it’s another hybrid versus 300w dedicated console which are both huge in dimensions) or actively hateful because they don’t want another competitor to their team (Xbox or Playstation).
 
Yes, people make aggravating comments about Nintendo all the time, often divorced of context or reason. Like all the 'never does BC' nonsense.
Or comparing the poor quality of the Mortal Kombat 1 port to the rumored Switch 2 Matrix demo visuals.

It's annoying to read but there's nothing you can really do about it.

One of my favorite statements was mentioned earlier in the thread - 'reality will assert itself', it'll put an end to the most uninteresting aspects of these discussions. Hopefully by this time next year we'll be seeing amazing looking games on the next hardware. Most people will be satisfied, I think. People are satisfied with the Steam Deck's ~PS4 level and are cranking settings down so low just to have Starfield run at 28 FPS. I hope I can get it to run better than that though...
 
I know it's been awhile and I haven't seen this person here in some time, but maybe it's time to revisit the quotes of specs that "Polygon" was giving us some time ago from their developer contact.

They were the first person to ever mention 12GB of ram for retail units and the way they mentioned performance was speaking in image quality wise and not raw power. To which they had told us then that the dev contact said to expect PS4 level of fidelity in handheld and PS4 Pro level of fidelity while docked.
 
Hey hey hey- I've been here lurking for far longer. I know the new ABK Switch 2 """news""" is old, but I get your point. Everything is news to someone no matter how old, especially if the media is just putting a new bow on it and claiming it's not a year old.
Exactly - certainly wasn't calling you (or anyone else) out - just that membership is increasing the Switch NG seems more and more imminent.
I think it's best for everyone to take it down a notch.
Agreed! As a casual outsider until the Switch era, it weirds me out how hostile the video game fan community can get over anything.
Thanks for the warm welcome. Like @carbvan , I largely dismissed the resurfacing of Activision stuff. I also made a suggestion that we shouldn't take the content at face value.

And that was in response to someone who's not on your "new member" list. I know you didn't mean to call out any name (you were speaking broadly.. new members adding more discussion lately) - are we certain the last 5 pages worth of discussion on the resurfaced Activision stuff or so are largely due to the new members?
Forgive me if I was vague and generalizing. One of the things that happens is that it only takes one person to post something previously discussed for 10 old timers to jump in with the smackdown, and I include myself. As the community gets bigger, the pace of things is going to get faster, just as more people participate. I wasn't trying to suggest that "newbies talking about silly things" - I was saying "an increase in members is going to make the pace of discussions increase, rapidly."

I didn't look that closely and don't really care to but want to point out 1) for the most part, I think we collectively are already largely dismissive of the Activision stuff, and 2) that the discussion is probably inevitable, new and old members alike. Let's not drive a wedge between subsets of the community here.
Sorry that I made that impression. When I suggested "onboarding" I wasn't just meaning in terms of information but "how the community operates." A new forum member is, in a sense, not a member of the community - this thread predating the existence of Famiboards - but a prospective one. And I want to welcome those people - which means not throwing the to the wolves of the old timers holding them to implicit standards buried in 2000 pages of forum text, 400 of which are in a different forum entirely.

I'm indifferent to the Activision discussion specifically, but you see consistently long time members piping in to say they can't keep up. As we get closer to the launch of the device a single thread for all Switch NG discussion simply doesn't scale. We as a community should start thinking about that, and that's what I was trying to bring up, not drive a wedge between anyone.

It seems like the problem here might be, we're mad that Activision stuff is being resurfaced again, when in fact, the large majority of comments made so far is exactly just that.. being mad that it's being brought up. We all put ourselves in that cycle collectively and need to get out of that self-feedback cycle.
Sure - but again, I was trying to use the activision discussion as a jumping off point for talking about how the community operates in what is likely it's final, busiest 6-8 months.

This thread cannot be the location for hardware discussion, and the launch library, the naming discussion, the gimmick discussion, and every Switch NG leak and rumor. We're quickly approaching the period where the Switch NG discussion is the Nintendo discussion, and one forum thread ain't gonna cut it. We need to talk about letting some of that discussion - like the BG3 chatter - live elsewhere. Not because it isn't valuable - but because it is.
 
I know it's been awhile and I haven't seen this person here in some time, but maybe it's time to revisit the quotes of specs that "Polygon" was giving us some time ago from their developer contact.

They were the first person to ever mention 12GB of ram for retail units and the way they mentioned performance was speaking in image quality wise and not raw power. To which they had told us then that the dev contact said to expect PS4 level of fidelity in handheld and PS4 Pro level of fidelity while docked.
mind linking that article? i missed this.
 
Yes, people make aggravating comments about Nintendo all the time, often divorced of context or reason. Like all the 'never does BC' nonsense.
Or comparing the poor quality of the Mortal Kombat 1 port to the rumored Switch 2 Matrix demo visuals.
The mention of Wii U ports to Switch and tying that in with the notion that Nintendo won't do BC anymore because they could keep charging folks full MSRP each time infuriates me beyond belief. It completely ignores the situation between Wii U and Switch and all the past BC platforms before it, both home console and portable.
 
At this point, I don't think many of those people think that the Switch was an exception, at least not now. Back in 2017, it was pretty powerful for its class as a handheld, and I do think that it was seen by many as Nintendo having more powerful hardware than they used to, especially with ports like Doom and the Witcher 3. But now, I don't think many people think that anymore because they stopped comparing the Switch to the PS4/Xbox One, and started comparing it subconsiously to the PS5/Xbox Series X, which naturally appears more unfavorable. Or nowadays, they might compare it to the Steam Deck/ROG Ally, which are more powerful due to being newer machines. And so, they retroactively believe that the Switch was always weak hardware.
That's what I mean though. The Switch's performance was decent as a handheld released in early 2017 priced at $300 in the same way that the DS was expected performance for a handheld to release in 2004 that was only $150, while the Wii, 3DS, and WiiU were considered woefully underpowered for their initial price and release date, though the Wii managed to sell well in spite of it.
 
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here It's actually the name of a user that had discussed about the information they had in this thread

Thanks for posting this, I forgot a lot of the context but all of their comments does read pretty interesting now that we are hearing more behind the scenes information. Especially since that was over a year ago now and the conversations seem very detailed in scope of what to expect...
 
so in theory, what current/cross gen games (let's say from 2020 to now) that you guys could see working on Switch 2? specifically from Bandai Namco, Sega, Capcom, Square Enix, Mihoyo & other big asian companies (western companies for another day lol)
 


GRAAAAAA NEW DOCTRE DROPPED

We already new about the job listing tho : P

Is DLSS something that would be worked on at NOA in Redmond? I know NOE has NERD as their research an development division. Does NOA have something similar?
 
Quoted by: LiC
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Is DLSS something that would be worked on at NOA in Redmond? I know NOE has NERD as their research an development division. Does NOA have something similar?
NTD (a department of NOA) has a major role in working on hardware and game development toolchains/stack. So yes, it would be.
 
These past few pages have been a classic example of "Nintendo fans don't care about the console wars until they do."
I think it's fair to call out pervasive dubious claims about Nintendo, since they can be frustrating to read. Otherwise, I don't think anyone here is making any claims of superiority of one console over the other.

I realize now that this is metacommentary of metacommentary...
 
NTD (a department of NOA) has a major role in working on hardware and game development toolchains/stack. So yes, it would be.
Thanks! If the integration of machine learning technologies they're referring to is indeed DLSS I hope this doesn't mean the reveal/release calendar is very far out. A lot people in this thread have been speculating something being shown at or around March but this listing does give me pause.

But hey I will let them cook.
 
Quoted by: LiC
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Forgot the Switch was 2x2, I thought it was 1x4.

But 2x2x2x2 still seems like it could have been possible.
the mainboard would have to be considerably redesigned and they already designed it to waste little space. unless they moved to a stacked SoC/Ram design, I don't see 4 chips possible on a single sided
 
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Thanks! If the integration of machine learning technologies they're referring to is indeed DLSS I hope this doesn't mean the reveal/release calendar is very far out. A lot people in this thread have been speculating something being shown at or around March but this listing does give me pause.

But hey I will let them cook.
All the work these teams do is continuous -- before, during, and after release. Hiring for a position doesn't mean work is just starting.
 
I'm on the Digital Foundry discord, and the reaction is generally that this thread are mostly aggressive assholes. Which we're not, but the loudest amongst us are the ones out the world.
Alright, fess up, y'all! Who's been givin' this thread a bad name?!

courage-the-cowardly-dog-slipper_1.gif
 
so in theory, what current/cross gen games (let's say from 2020 to now) that you guys could see working on Switch 2? specifically from Bandai Namco, Sega, Capcom, Square Enix, Mihoyo & other big asian companies (western companies for another day lol)
Many. From Bandai Namco Tales of Arise and Elden Ring. From Square Enix FF7 remake and FFXVI as well as the upcoming Dragon Quest XII: flames of fate.. From Sega: Every new like a dragon and Yakuza game. From Capcom: Every new Resident evil game, street fighter 6 and the upcoming Dragon's dogma II. None of these games should be impossible to port over to the Switch 2.
 
Divinity: Original Sin 2 cut out splitscreen on Switch. Devs have no problem cutting those types of features on Switch. For another example, Doom 2016 omits the Snapmap mode on Switch versus other versions.
I mean yeah it’s not like it’s a must-have feature on Switch specifically, especially because of the handheld nature of the system. Would be a nice to have thing at best.
 
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so in theory, what current/cross gen games (let's say from 2020 to now) that you guys could see working on Switch 2? specifically from Bandai Namco, Sega, Capcom, Square Enix, Mihoyo & other big asian companies (western companies for another day lol)
Kingdom Hearts 4 & maybe native ports of the previous games
 
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Unless Peach Showtime and TTYD HD knock my socks off, I realise I'm looking at the Switch generation ending soon... and me still preferring Wii U.

Let's hope NG Switch fixes that.
 
Quoted by: Leo
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Something unimportant but weird that caught my eye in the FTC case exhibits -- this PDF has a few pages excerpted from Phil Spencer's deposition. The PDF itself is 5 pages. There are a few inline redactions, but the majority of the 400-ish page count of the original just isn't there at all because these are excerpts.

But despite being 5 pages long and having no media in it, this PDF is a gargantuan 187 MB. That's not normal. PDFs can have embedded fonts and other junk that could increase the file size, but not by this much. The total size of all 126 other PDFs put together is 407 MB, and many of them have a lot more pages, embedded images, etc. So what's going on with this one file?
 
so in theory, what current/cross gen games (let's say from 2020 to now) that you guys could see working on Switch 2? specifically from Bandai Namco, Sega, Capcom, Square Enix, Mihoyo & other big asian companies (western companies for another day lol)
The big 6 JP devs:
Capcom: all big games released on ps4/xone that skipped Switch bar stuff like M:World and VR
SEGA: Nothing maybe some late Atlus ports at most (I dont think they porting RGG stuff unless Nintendo pays for it)
SE: FFVIIR (rebirth I doubt it atm), all remasters (bar kh) that have skipped Switch and games made by external dev that the dev pushes for Switch 2 ports (can only imagine Valkyrie Elysium atm)
Bamco: from BNS nothing that has skipped Switch bar whatever Nintendo pays to port and from D3 everything that has skipped Switch should come to Switch but will take some time, rest of their output either comes to Switch or depends on 3rd party devs (which if they push will come)
KT: Maybe Team Ninja stuff that has skipped Switch but isnt part of their Sony deals, everything else already comes to Switch
Konami: eFootball will finally come, rest of their output has come to Switch atm this will change with MGS3R and SH2R but we have no gameplay footage to try to guess how viable would be to port but if it's viable I can see it

Western I dont know a lot of development preferences/teams but I imagine WB and 2k (non Rockstar* part) will support it heavy early on after their success on Switch and I expect EA to also support it heavily when it comes to sport titles day 1 (no more legacy editions) and probably even Madden/NHL coming

* Rockstar stuff is harder to guess but I do think RDR2 is coming, GTAVI is the big question
 
Something unimportant but weird that caught my eye in the FTC case exhibits -- this PDF has a few pages excerpted from Phil Spencer's deposition. The PDF itself is 5 pages. There are a few inline redactions, but the majority of the 400-ish page count of the original just isn't there at all because these are excerpts.

But despite being 5 pages long and having no media in it, this PDF is a gargantuan 187 MB. That's not normal. PDFs can have embedded fonts and other junk that could increase the file size, but not by this much. The total size of all 126 other PDFs put together is 407 MB, and many of them have a lot more pages, embedded images, etc. So what's going on with this one file?
Bad font data/info/management? Subpar font file handling can increase PDF sizes substantially.
 
Quoted by: LiC
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Unless Peach Showtime and TTYD HD knock my socks off, I realise I'm looking at the Switch generation ending soon... and me still preferring Wii U.

Let's hope NG Switch fixes that.

Damn, I think if you made one of those "am I the only one" threads, you would actually be the only one
 
Bad font data/info/management? Subpar font file handling can increase PDF sizes substantially.
I did mention that. But it can't increase it by this much. The second largest PDF in here is 65 MB, and that one is 140 pages long with a bunch of images. Additionally, the overlarge PDF is just one of several with metadata indicating it was generated by the "YesLaw Transcript Generator", and none of the others have this file size problem.

I do think the most likely cause is some kind of PDF gunk generated by the tool. But there's some chance it could be interesting data. I don't own any PDF tools that could get it out, though. And if it's really some sort of orphaned/embedded data, you'd probably need a specialist's help to extract it.
 
I did mention that. But it can't increase it by this much. The second largest PDF in here is 65 MB, and that one is 140 pages long with a bunch of images. Additionally, the overlarge PDF is just one of several with metadata indicating it was generated by the "YesLaw Transcript Generator", and none of the others have this file size problem.

I do think the most likely cause is some kind of PDF gunk generated by the tool. But there's some chance it could be interesting data. I don't own any PDF tools that could get it out, though. And if it's really some sort of orphaned/embedded data, you'd probably need a specialist's help to extract it.
Sorry, missed that.

Honestly I wouldn't know, I would have imagined court workers are notoriously bad with technical stuff but I have no clue on how much file size could realistically swell to. However if that cannot explain the 187 MB file size alone, then yes, that makes it interesting. What is lurking in there inside the PDF contents then?
 
Nah there is actually a sizeable part of the Nintendo fanbase that prefers WiiU over Switch, at least if you remove the WiiU ports. I see it more on Twitter than on fami tho
Sounds wild to be me. WiiU has such a poor library compared to other Nintendo consoles, it is with the N64 in terms of low library depth while having lower highs.
 
why are people so pessimistic about Nintendo in general? Like why do people hate? Seems irrational to hate a company because it’s “one gen” behind the rest of the consoles.
My guess is that they've been burned by Nintendo's many setbacks over the years. It's understandable, but the more irrational crowd doesn't seem to give credit where it's due, despite whatever issues Nintendo still have, now. They're not a flawless company, hell I've had more than my share of frustrations with them, but I feel the pessimism is overt.

Edit: Grammar
 
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I did mention that. But it can't increase it by this much. The second largest PDF in here is 65 MB, and that one is 140 pages long with a bunch of images. Additionally, the overlarge PDF is just one of several with metadata indicating it was generated by the "YesLaw Transcript Generator", and none of the others have this file size problem.

I do think the most likely cause is some kind of PDF gunk generated by the tool. But there's some chance it could be interesting data. I don't own any PDF tools that could get it out, though. And if it's really some sort of orphaned/embedded data, you'd probably need a specialist's help to extract it.
Viewing the PDF on Firefox reveals a bunch of attachments along the 5-page transcript. I looked into 2 of them randomly, seem to be just internal emails discussing MS' strategy or some technical topics. Will check them all tomorrow, it's already nightime here fella.
E: actually there's even a full blown FTC report totalling at 25k lines stored in plain text format attached as well. Certainly not gonna look at that lol.
E2: total size of all attachments are 209MB btw, so whatever PDF software used to generate the document already performed compression quite a bit.
 
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Except the Switch 1 already had a superior feature set compared to PS4 and Xbox One, it didn't help it much to say the least.
Man, Switch has gotten a ton of PS4/One games that PS360 wouldn't have dreamed of pulling off.
DLSS is not a silver bullet, there's only so much PS4/XOne raw power can do in such an scenario. You can cut the resolution in half and upscale that, but the gains aren't nearly enough to even get close to 50% of a Series S while handheld.
50% what? If we're saying there's a theoretical multiplatform game that's 1080p60 on Series S without any fancy upscaling, given what we know it seems feasible enough to me that undocked Switch 2 using DLSS could manage a decent-looking 1080p30 at least, unless it's a game that plays particularly to Series S's strengths like CPU.
 
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