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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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As I was looking at what expansion cards I should buy for a Framework 16 since I'm seriously considering buying a Framework 16 (I do wonder if Framework's planning on selling a graphics module with the RTX 4080 laptop GPU (AD104) equipped), I saw that Framework's selling a microSD expansion card, and the bolded part of the description caught my eye.
The MicroSD Expansion Card supports MicroSD UHS-I cards, as well as the new UFS Card standard for massive read, write, and random access performance improvements.
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UFS Card 3.0 support? :unsure:
 
Imagine moving away from the incredibly strong “Switch” brand to something named after something you have to do while at work like “Focus”
 
Dakhil said:
As I was looking at what expansion cards I should buy for a Framework 16 since I'm seriously considering buying a Framework 16 (I do wonder if Framework's planning on selling a graphics module with the RTX 4080 laptop GPU (AD104) equipped), I saw that Framework's selling a microSD expansion card, and the bolded part of the description caught my eye.

UFS Card 3.0 support? :unsure:
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Did they find a warehouse of old UFS card readers somewhere? It's kind of a weird feature for a newly manufactured device, unless...
 
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Dakhil said:
As I was looking at what expansion cards I should buy for a Framework 16 since I'm seriously considering buying a Framework 16 (I do wonder if Framework's planning on selling a graphics module with the RTX 4080 laptop GPU (AD104) equipped), I saw that Framework's selling a microSD expansion card, and the bolded part of the description caught my eye.

UFS Card 3.0 support? :unsure:
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I think all UFS card readers can read UFS Card 3.0, but to get the maximum speed, you need either the reader or the host hardware to be operating with at least M-PHY 4.1 and UniPro 1.8 compatibility, which is also the same requirement as with eUFS 3.0. So a firmware update, when possible, makes that available.
 
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Derachi said:
Imagine moving away from the incredibly strong “Switch” brand to something named after something you have to do while at work like “Focus”
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It's almost as crazy as throwing away one of the worlds biggest social media brand and replacing it with a generic letter.

Almost
 
Quick question: where are we on the possibility of this thing having a camera? Didn’t the hack show that whatever Orin had built for camera compatibility had been taken out of T239? Am I remembering correctly?
 
Cuzizkool said:
Quick question: where are we on the possibility of this thing having a camera? Didn’t the hack show that whatever Orin had built for camera compatibility had been taken out of T239? Am I remembering correctly?
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Correct, the T239 file listing modules supported by the host has removed camera-related classes which the Orin version has. It's possible a camera might be supported, either because this file just wasn't updated with it or because it's connected in a way that doesn't require the same module support as Orin, but my personal belief is that there won't be one.
 
Dakhil said:
As I was looking at what expansion cards I should buy for a Framework 16 since I'm seriously considering buying a Framework 16 (I do wonder if Framework's planning on selling a graphics module with the RTX 4080 laptop GPU (AD104) equipped), I saw that Framework's selling a microSD expansion card, and the bolded part of the description caught my eye.

UFS Card 3.0 support? :unsure:
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone even sell UFS cards anymore. Do they know something we don't or are there just a bunch of dual compatible readers laying around somewhere? Either way, if we heard anything about UFS cards being produced again in the near future then that is total confirmation of Nintendo support in my mind.
 
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Cuzizkool said:
Quick question: where are we on the possibility of this thing having a camera? Didn’t the hack show that whatever Orin had built for camera compatibility had been taken out of T239? Am I remembering correctly?
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Hopefully a 0% chance. Nintendo has had several systems with cameras on them before, and nothing they ever did with them justified their inclusion.
 
OniLgnd said:
Hopefully a 0% chance. Nintendo has had several systems with cameras on them before, and nothing they ever did with them justified their inclusion.
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3DS AR cards were cool, I think doing something with them and Amiibo could be interesting, but AR is definitely something Nintendo is investing in, though I really believe that is mostly for whatever is after switch like devices, or a second type of product via AR Glasses.
 
Z0m3le said:
3DS AR cards were cool, I think doing something with them and Amiibo could be interesting, but AR is definitely something Nintendo is investing in, though I really believe that is mostly for whatever is after switch like devices, or a second type of product via AR Glasses.
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They were neat, but they didn't justify the cameras inclusion. The vast majority of people played with them once, and then never again. In my opinion, to include some sort of feature or technology in a gaming system, it needs to be something that a large amount of games could take advantage of in a natural way. And that will never be true for cameras.
 
Makes me feel giddy that we could potentially have legitimate hardware news by the end of September or im just sipping on some mad hopium
 
Dmax3901 said:
👀
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Ascend... sky... air... lighter than air... light... Lite.

OLED Lite confirmed.

OniLgnd said:
They were neat, but they didn't justify the cameras inclusion. The vast majority of people played with them once, and then never again. In my opinion, to include some sort of feature or technology in a gaming system, it needs to be something that a large amount of games could take advantage of in a natural way. And that will never be true for cameras.
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Excuse me, the photo camouflage in MGS Snake Eater 3D was not only hilarious but actually provided the most effective means of hiding from enemies.
 
It doesn't surprise me people with contacts are already hearing more things, there is always industry chatter around these events and since the dev kits are out and Nintendo might have briefed even more partners during Gamescom on the Switch 2, there'll be more chatter. As they say, there'll be even more during TGS, as more devs will have gotten their kits and the ones that already had them will know more about the system as they learn more of it from experience. If we don't get any leak before TGS, we should get one before the end of the year I'd think.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
You do realize you’re voiding one third-party source and using a different third-party source who is not infallible to confirm something that will never come out from the horses mouth, which in this case is a first party source. Correct?

DF receive information from Third parties and aren’t different in this scenario than what some have done here in coming to a conclusion. The source we have in this case that falls into the same facet, is the nvidia hack.
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If you think that Eurogamer/DF reporting on final hardware is the same as people on this forum guessing based on leaks from 2 years ago then I'm not sure what to say to you.
 
Where is the concern about digital-only BC coming actually? What could be the reason for something like this to happen?
They already used a pretty simple solution for 3DS carts and the slot allowing for DS carts and that very same thing could be used for SNG, or am I missing something?
 
L_esson said:
Where is the concern about digital-only BC coming actually? What could be the reason for something like this to happen?
They already used a pretty simple solution for 3DS carts and the slot allowing for DS carts and that very same thing could be used for SNG, or am I missing something?
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Both are entire possible but no-one has a clue yet.
"Concern" based on guessing is pointless.
 
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OniLgnd said:
They were neat, but they didn't justify the cameras inclusion. The vast majority of people played with them once, and then never again. In my opinion, to include some sort of feature or technology in a gaming system, it needs to be something that a large amount of games could take advantage of in a natural way. And that will never be true for cameras.
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That isn't true for most Nintendo hardware either... IR Camera on Joycons, HD Rumble on Joycons, Stylus on Wii U Gamepad, IR transfer adapter on Gameboy Color, expansion port on Nintendo consoles, Mic on DS, Cameras on DSi, Cameras on 3DS, expansion slot on N64, speaker on Wiimote... It's actually better if the feature they include on Switch 2 is like these, where if a cool idea comes along, they can use the feature, but otherwise it's a game console like the Switch's features.
 
oldpuck said:
Welcome to the long running back and forth over BC.
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Ha! I guess this is part of what makes the whole speculation game fun, isn't it?

Anyway, while I'm not expecting anything even remotely close to the technical marvels of the Xbox Series backwards compatibility, I definitely hope Nintendo and Nvidia (or whoever is the actual partner, see below...) succeed in bringing nextgen hardware a feature that I'd rate as vital.

ReddDreadtheLead said:
They work on multiple concepts of hardware, that doesn’t extend to silicon. That’s much more rigid and set in stone than whatever concept they aim for.
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There's at least a precedent though: we had an FCC filing for an Nvidia-based 3DS devkit, yet the final hardware had a completely different HW partner.

So while we have multiple, extremely solid hints at what the nextgen Switch could end up using, I can totally see why people might prefer keeping a more cautious approach. You never know.
 
Z0m3le said:
It's actually better if the feature they include on Switch 2 is like these, where if a cool idea comes along, they can use the feature, but otherwise it's a game console like the Switch's features
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I see your point but honestly I'd prefer a few, heck perhaps even a single very well thought concept approach rather than a "let's try this, this and this and let's see if something actually works in a few years" one. The IR pointer was a perfectly executed idea that was extensively used through the whole Wii lifetime, give me this kind of stuff all the time!

Otherwise you'll just increase manufacturing costs without anything actually worth given to the players in return.
 
oldpuck said:
T239 isn't designed to go below 1 TFLOPS or much above 3 TFLOPS. So there isn't really room for a much bigger gap.
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I honestly don't think we will see a sub 450MHz clock for the GPU on TSMC 4N... Orin goes to 422MHz on 8nm, TX1 goes to 307MHz on 20nm... That 450MHz clock would give almost 1.4TFLOPs and be around as powerful as a PS4 in portable, but the thing about modern Nvidia GPUs like Drake, is that it can render 540p and output 1080p via DLSS... Imagine PS4 targeting 540p, I just don't see a need to worry about specs with this thing... Hell even if you dropped the GPU all the way down to 400MHz, you'd still get about 1.23TFLOPs, which would out perform the XB1S easily, and manage this same DLSS trick to basically handle any current gen game's graphics.

GPU power just won't be the issue with Drake, I don't think CPU will either, as I don't think 50-70% of PS5's CPU performance is going to stop developers from porting their games, and with RAM rumored to be 12GB, I think even there it is fine... The bottlenecks will exist, but it's so far beyond our expectations, it's hard to be pessimistic about any of the specs.
 
Z0m3le said:
That isn't true for most Nintendo hardware either... IR Camera on Joycons, HD Rumble on Joycons, Stylus on Wii U Gamepad, IR transfer adapter on Gameboy Color, expansion port on Nintendo consoles, Mic on DS, Cameras on DSi, Cameras on 3DS, expansion slot on N64, speaker on Wiimote... It's actually better if the feature they include on Switch 2 is like these, where if a cool idea comes along, they can use the feature, but otherwise it's a game console like the Switch's features.
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I used the word "could" very specifically. Developers don't have to take advantage of any specific hardware feature, but the ones they could take advantage of are the ones worth including.

HD rumble might not be used in every game, but it absolutely could be, and it isn't difficult to imagine how for almost every game out there. The same is true for speakers in a remote. Even for games like Red Dead Redemption, Elden Ring, The Witcher, etc. It would be incredibly easy for the developers to implement those features. But to take advantage of cameras, it would require them to create an entirely different aspect of the game exclusively for the system with cameras. It isn't something they could simply tie in to the existing content of the game.

To be clear, I am all for trying different things to add new layers to a game system. Even if Nintendo or others aren't sure if developers will be able to take advantage. But cameras have been tried many times before, and each time they have failed to provide for anything more than a neat one off experience.
 
Z0m3le said:
I honestly don't think we will see a sub 450MHz clock for the GPU on TSMC 4N... Orin goes to 422MHz on 8nm, TX1 goes to 307MHz on 20nm... That 450MHz clock would give almost 1.4TFLOPs and be around as powerful as a PS4 in portable, but the thing about modern Nvidia GPUs like Drake, is that it can render 540p and output 1080p via DLSS... Imagine PS4 targeting 540p, I just don't see a need to worry about specs with this thing... Hell even if you dropped the GPU all the way down to 400MHz, you'd still get about 1.23TFLOPs, which would out perform the XB1S easily, and manage this same DLSS trick to basically handle any current gen game's graphics.

GPU power just won't be the issue with Drake, I don't think CPU will either, as I don't think 50-70% of PS5's CPU performance is going to stop developers from porting their games, and with RAM rumored to be 12GB, I think even there it is fine... The bottlenecks will exist, but it's so far beyond our expectations, it's hard to be pessimistic about any of the specs.
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I fear storage speed could end up being a bottleneck still and we will be stuck with relatively slow load times.

I still dream of being able to speed run Resident Evil titles on my switch. But it takes almost three times the time it takes me on my pc because of how slow the door loading times are.

Worst part about resident evil games is the in game timer runs whilst doors are loading, whyyyyyyyyy.

Appreciate my use case is super niche as a resident evil super nerd.
 
Armoured_Bear said:
If you think that Eurogamer/DF reporting on final hardware is the same as people on this forum guessing based on leaks from 2 years ago then I'm not sure what to say to you.
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Not leaks, it's both stolen data and publicly-published data as corroboration, some of it as recent as September of last year, from the maker of the chip in this new hardware. If you're going to hand-wave it away like that is irrelevant, at least hand-wave away the correct thing.
 
You guys seem fairly confident that Drake is going to be on the TSMC N4 node that Nvidia is currently using on Lovelace hardware.

I’m still betting there is a small chance they go with Samsung’s 8nm Node
 
ShaunSwitch said:
I fear storage speed could end up being a bottleneck still and we will be stuck with relatively slow load times.

I still dream of being able to speed run Resident Evil titles on my switch. But it takes almost three times the time it takes me on my pc because of how slow the door loading times are.

Worst part about resident evil games is the in game timer runs whilst doors are loading, whyyyyyyyyy.

Appreciate my use case is super niche as a resident evil super nerd.
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emmc has a 400MB/s read speed, so load time should be at least 4 times faster than the PS4 version of those games.
 
Xorhan said:

This is pretty big, right?
Some first-party games already used FSR 1.0 and from what I saw 2.0 seems to be a substantial upgrade.
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FSR 2.0 is huge for Switch, remember Switch is actually capable of mixed precision, and FSR 2 loves fp16 compute, so it wouldn't be too surprising if you could get the Switch to render a game at 540p with 500GFLOPs mixed precision, and use FSR 2 to upscale to 1080p, basically Switch has finally evolved into Switch Pro, that gives it about twice the performance of Switch at launch. We are talking about ~3/4th of an XB1 now. The limitation is still 3.2GB of RAM available for games (I think games have access to 3.2GB RAM, could be wrong there).
 
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