StarTopic Pikmin 4 |ST| In Development and Very Close to Completion

[Lord Azrael]

It's really not that bad, intimidating at first but his movement is very slow and telegraphed.

I finished it just fine, but it was definitely not what I would consider fun or what I want from a Pikmin game

it's way easier than it's pikmin 2 version

I don't think that makes it any better lol

 

[psilex]

So is anybody else working on Platinuming the Sage Leaf Trials or am I just a masochist

I did it all on my only run of the cave which took about 2-3 hours. Plucking Whistle was the best upgrade, I couldn't imagine doing it without that

 

[DenkeyKong]

I feel like it's a missed opportunity to not allow the player to choose at which base they want to land for the day.

Likewise I'd have liked to be able to look at the map for an area before choosing to land there. It'd be helpful to make a choice of where to go next and also allowed for planning of the day.

 

[MrGab]

So is anybody else working on Platinuming the Sage Leaf Trials or am I just a masochist

I got platinum on that stuff too. I'm a bit sad, I did everything in the game, loved every minute, and now is done. Wish they could add a new game plus with almost every items and skills with a option for hard mode. Metroid Dread got a free update like this, so Pikmin can too.

 

[MrGab]

My mindset at the end was "JUST GIVE ME THE DAMN PURPLE AND WHITE ONIONS ALREADY!"

I'll probably go on youtube and watch how someone is able to platinum those trials, but no way am I going to try it. I think I picked up two silver medals total lol.

That is not that hard. Hint: some enemies and some things like destroying walls could be ignored.

 

[Gartooth]

Have the game 100% done now. Overall it's my favorite game in the Pikmin series easily. I'm glad my worries about a lack of challenge from the opening hours was dismissed as you get further into the game. Some of the late game stuff is some of the most challenging moments in the Pikmin series. This is easily my #2 favorite game of the year so far just behind Zelda.

 

[MrBones]

So is anybody else working on Platinuming the Sage Leaf Trials or am I just a masochist

They're not too terrible to plat, just have to reset frequently. Floor 10 took me the longest and that was mainly figuring out what sections/enemies could be skipped.

 

[MrBones]

They should’ve just put them in the final stage hidden behind difficult challenges or bosses or caves. Having them in a mode that 99% of players will do last or not at all is pointless. It might be a decent reward if there was something like new game plus.

New game+ and a hard mode is sorely missing from Pikmin 4. They put too many abilities and onions near the very end of the game.

 

[Brock Reiher]

New game+ and a hard mode is sorely missing from Pikmin 4. They put too many abilities and onions near the very end of the game.

DLC

 

[MrBones]

DLC

Here's hoping.

 

[Deleted member 1081]

What the fuck? Who in their right mind thought Engulfed Castle would be fun?

Me. I clapped,

 

[OctoSplattack]

What the fuck? Who in their right mind thought Engulfed Castle would be fun?

I enjoyed it in the end, and it was very much easier than the OG, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't immediately close out the game the moment a bomb-carrying Dweevil fell from the sky and nuked half my Pikmin because I panicked at the sight of it. The "welcome to the real world, jackass" moments in this game are few and far between, but when they hit...

 

[Deleted member 645]

Finally want to give my thoughts. Pikmin 3 is a better game to me. The local co-op for the whole campaign can’t be beat. With that said, Pikmin 4 is Pikmin. The gameplay is addicting. I really hope they take advantage of the power increase of the next switch and give us a local co op mode update with dlc.

 

[Starphanluke]

I'm not gonna lie, I did not think the Engulfed Castle was that hard.

Anyway, 100% the game outside of the late-game Trial thing yesterday. Phenomenal, and one of the very best on Switch. My Pikmin journey over the past month (playing all 4 games for the first time) has been so special. Sure to be one of those gaming memories that sticks with me forever.

This might be a weird opinion based on what I've read across the internet, but I actually far prefer Pikmin 1 and 4 to 3 and 2. If I were to rank them:
1. 4
2. 1
Then a big gap
3. 3
4. 2

But I should be clear I quite liked them all. 4 and 1 are the only ones I loved though.

 

[Lord Azrael]

OMG the alt title screen you unlock after visiting the fourth area brought such a smile to my face, what a nice surprise

 

[Gengar]

I've found my first major gripe with this game. I really don't like the requirements to unlock the white and purple onions.

I finally got the white onion today, and I guess it's easy enough in hindsight, but the purple is just ridiculous.

 

[JorgenRaft]

I've found my first major gripe with this game. I really don't like the requirements to unlock the white and purple onions.

I finally got the white onion today, and I guess it's easy enough in hindsight, but the purple is just ridiculous.

Purple has some trial and error to it but, once you figure it out the right path, it might be the easiest trial of the 10.

 

[Deleted member 645]

Any idea on sales totals yet?

 

[Deleted member 2]

Only have one more Sage Trial left to platinum. Then I've done every possible thing in this game.

I wish it didn't have to end, but I'll probably just replay Pikmin 3 Deluxe.

 

[correojon]

Finished Pikmin 1, loved it! It's a bit rough in places and I takes some time to adapt your mentality to the differences from 4. It feels much more dangerous, I only engage in battle if I need to; My priority completely shifted to trying to ignore enemies if possible. And that's amazing, because now instead of going braindead and rushing an enemy to death, I have to think strategically a lot more.

The things to transport also have bigger Pikmin number requirements, so when you mix in the type requirements it adds another layer. In 4 I could almost always just pick and carry whatever piece of treasure I found, just finding the treasure was the puzzle most of the time. But in 1 finding the treasure is just the first step of a multi-layered puzzle: Now you have to get to it and then you have to carry it to the ship. These layers are independent from each other in their individual solutions, but they're also interconnected because if you need fire Pikmin for something then the number of other types of available Pikmin is reduced. For example, having 30 red, 40 blue and 30 yellow won't allow you to solve the puzzle if you need 40 yellow to reach and drop the ship part from a ledge above and then another 40 red to carry it through a fiery field.

Fighting enemies is much more strategic as well, in 4 I rush or use Oatchi most of the time and I can quickly kill everything. In 1, due to the greater penalty when losing Pikmin, I'm much more careful and try to truly understand each enemies' behaviour so that I can fight more efficiently. Each Pikmin is important, losing 1 or 2 may make it so you don't reach the requirements to carry that heavy part ship. Also, reds are much better fighters than the rest: In 4 I can rush with almost whatever Pikmin type, but in 1 using reds make a huge difference. Also, using yellows for flying enemies gives a greater advantage, but once you drop them to the ground it's better to switch to reds. Dropping a Pikmin straight on an enemy also deals more damage than near it, so every Pikmin throw is more important. And you have to manually do this, considering enemy movement so the Pikmin falls right on top. I feel like Pikmin 1 has a lot of mechanics and strategy that disappears in later entries once you have rush or Oatchi at your disposal. In 4 I'm always carrying my whole squad with me (unless they're doing something else or I'm split with Oatchi) but in 1 I'm constantly disbanding my squad and only taking with me the necessary Pikmin, as a smaller squad is easier to control and to fight without losing anyone.

BTW, the greatest enemies in the game are water ponds and Pikmin AI. The idle alert was sorely missed as well and I don't like that Pikmin seeds take that long to sprout, though.

I like more the more hands-on approach of Pikmin 1 than the one in 4 I feel like the improvements and new mechanics in 4 simplify or hide a lot of the awesome, underlying mechanics and strategy layers.
I was very tempted to replay 1 to improve my record, but ultimately the rough AI, camera and some of the jankiness pushed towards Pikmin 2. I will surely come back after I'm done with 2 though. This is a jewel of a game.

Now, on to Pikmin 2!

 

[DenkeyKong]

Finished Pikmin 1, loved it! It's a bit rough in places and I takes some time to adapt your mentality to the differences from 4. It feels much more dangerous, I only engage in battle if I need to; My priority completely shifted to trying to ignore enemies if possible. And that's amazing, because now instead of going braindead and rushing an enemy to death, I have to think strategically a lot more.

The things to transport also have bigger Pikmin number requirements, so when you mix in the type requirements it adds another layer. In 4 I could almost always just pick and carry whatever piece of treasure I found, just finding the treasure was the puzzle most of the time. But in 1 finding the treasure is just the first step of a multi-layered puzzle: Now you have to get to it and then you have to carry it to the ship. These layers are independent from each other in their individual solutions, but they're also interconnected because if you need fire Pikmin for something then the number of other types of available Pikmin is reduced. For example, having 30 red, 40 blue and 30 yellow won't allow you to solve the puzzle if you need 40 yellow to reach and drop the ship part from a ledge above and then another 40 red to carry it through a fiery field.

Fighting enemies is much more strategic as well, in 4 I rush or use Oatchi most of the time and I can quickly kill everything. In 1, due to the greater penalty when losing Pikmin, I'm much more careful and try to truly understand each enemies' behaviour so that I can fight more efficiently. Each Pikmin is important, losing 1 or 2 may make it so you don't reach the requirements to carry that heavy part ship. Also, reds are much better fighters than the rest: In 4 I can rush with almost whatever Pikmin type, but in 1 using reds make a huge difference. Also, using yellows for flying enemies gives a greater advantage, but once you drop them to the ground it's better to switch to reds. Dropping a Pikmin straight on an enemy also deals more damage than near it, so every Pikmin throw is more important. And you have to manually do this, considering enemy movement so the Pikmin falls right on top. I feel like Pikmin 1 has a lot of mechanics and strategy that disappears in later entries once you have rush or Oatchi at your disposal. In 4 I'm always carrying my whole squad with me (unless they're doing something else or I'm split with Oatchi) but in 1 I'm constantly disbanding my squad and only taking with me the necessary Pikmin, as a smaller squad is easier to control and to fight without losing anyone.

BTW, the greatest enemies in the game are water ponds and Pikmin AI. The idle alert was sorely missed as well and I don't like that Pikmin seeds take that long to sprout, though.

I like more the more hands-on approach of Pikmin 1 than the one in 4 I feel like the improvements and new mechanics in 4 simplify or hide a lot of the awesome, underlying mechanics and strategy layers.
I was very tempted to replay 1 to improve my record, but ultimately the rough AI, camera and some of the jankiness pushed towards Pikmin 2. I will surely come back after I'm done with 2 though. This is a jewel of a game.

Now, on to Pikmin 2!

This is a really great comment!

It got me thinking about Pikmin 4 and how something felt slightly off about it to me. You somewhat hit the nail on its head. Pikmin 4 is a great game, but it heavily depends on the sum of its pieces to create engagement. As you mentioned none of the individual components actually require much thinking. I found myself quite often just running from here to there and back again just doing everything in my path as efficiently as possible. But few of those actions actually required much thinking beyond 'what type to throw on here and how many?'.

Dandori challenges on the other hand compensated for the ease with which you can collect items by putting you on a timer. Now you're also thinking about how to pick everything up as speedy as possible. There was one that stood out to me in particular, it's the challenge with purple, yellow and ice Pikmin where you have 2 lakes that can be frozen. Just running around efficiently did not help me there...

Maybe when really optimizing your gameplay these kind of hurdles will appear more often. I remember seeing some people discussing about beating the demo asap, which required some cool strats. However, I think those kind of things should've been enforced more in general.

I think this is my main complaint with the game and why it is great game, but not a masterpiece. Anyways, this is how I feel about it atm, I'll definitely be paying more attention to it when I'll do my replay.

 

[BlackthornOrion]

Wrapped up 4's post-game and now have all areas 100%. Very much preaching to the choir, but what an absolutely fantastic game. Something that struck me while playing is Pikmin is one of the only series I can think of where I've enjoyed every new game more than what came before (as long as we all agree to keep ignoring Hey Pikmin). Pikmin 4 feels like it's done so much right to both refine the core gameplay while also opening it up and making it more approachable than it's ever been.

A couple nitpicks I have though (and they are nitpicks)

a) once you unlock alternate bases for an area, I wish you could just choose which one to start at when you begin a day

b) I think this game could really benefit from some kind of new game plus. There are a bunch of fun and useful things that are locked until so late in the game that they feel basically pointless by the time you actually get them. I'd kinda like to be able to start from the beginning with those things unlocked just to see how much you can break the game by having that stuff earlier.

 

[slide's]

haven't played this game in like five days (did most of the stuff) but oatchi's whistle is still ringing in my ears

 

[Pokemaniac]

I've found my first major gripe with this game. I really don't like the requirements to unlock the white and purple onions.

I finally got the white onion today, and I guess it's easy enough in hindsight, but the purple is just ridiculous.

It takes a little bit of trial and error to figure out the strategy for the purple one, but it's not too bad once you've done that.

 

[Gengar]

Purple has some trial and error to it but, once you figure it out the right path, it might be the easiest trial of the 10.

It takes a little bit of trial and error to figure out the strategy for the purple one, but it's not too bad once you've done that.

Not sure if I did it the intended way or not, but I eventually got it. It's crazy to think that people can platinum these trials. I'm not even thinking about trying that, haha.

 

[DenkeyKong]

Now that the game's been out for a bit and most have played it or even completed it, what's people's consensus on the protagonists?

I remember there being quite some discussion here about whether the character creator was good or bad. How did that play out? Was it worth it to include it or were predefined MCs like in the previous games better?

 

[MrGab]

Finished Pikmin 1, loved it! It's a bit rough in places and I takes some time to adapt your mentality to the differences from 4. It feels much more dangerous, I only engage in battle if I need to; My priority completely shifted to trying to ignore enemies if possible. And that's amazing, because now instead of going braindead and rushing an enemy to death, I have to think strategically a lot more.

The things to transport also have bigger Pikmin number requirements, so when you mix in the type requirements it adds another layer. In 4 I could almost always just pick and carry whatever piece of treasure I found, just finding the treasure was the puzzle most of the time. But in 1 finding the treasure is just the first step of a multi-layered puzzle: Now you have to get to it and then you have to carry it to the ship. These layers are independent from each other in their individual solutions, but they're also interconnected because if you need fire Pikmin for something then the number of other types of available Pikmin is reduced. For example, having 30 red, 40 blue and 30 yellow won't allow you to solve the puzzle if you need 40 yellow to reach and drop the ship part from a ledge above and then another 40 red to carry it through a fiery field.

Fighting enemies is much more strategic as well, in 4 I rush or use Oatchi most of the time and I can quickly kill everything. In 1, due to the greater penalty when losing Pikmin, I'm much more careful and try to truly understand each enemies' behaviour so that I can fight more efficiently. Each Pikmin is important, losing 1 or 2 may make it so you don't reach the requirements to carry that heavy part ship. Also, reds are much better fighters than the rest: In 4 I can rush with almost whatever Pikmin type, but in 1 using reds make a huge difference. Also, using yellows for flying enemies gives a greater advantage, but once you drop them to the ground it's better to switch to reds. Dropping a Pikmin straight on an enemy also deals more damage than near it, so every Pikmin throw is more important. And you have to manually do this, considering enemy movement so the Pikmin falls right on top. I feel like Pikmin 1 has a lot of mechanics and strategy that disappears in later entries once you have rush or Oatchi at your disposal. In 4 I'm always carrying my whole squad with me (unless they're doing something else or I'm split with Oatchi) but in 1 I'm constantly disbanding my squad and only taking with me the necessary Pikmin, as a smaller squad is easier to control and to fight without losing anyone.

BTW, the greatest enemies in the game are water ponds and Pikmin AI. The idle alert was sorely missed as well and I don't like that Pikmin seeds take that long to sprout, though.

I like more the more hands-on approach of Pikmin 1 than the one in 4 I feel like the improvements and new mechanics in 4 simplify or hide a lot of the awesome, underlying mechanics and strategy layers.
I was very tempted to replay 1 to improve my record, but ultimately the rough AI, camera and some of the jankiness pushed towards Pikmin 2. I will surely come back after I'm done with 2 though. This is a jewel of a game.

Now, on to Pikmin 2!

While I agree with most of your post, I think Nintendo missed an opportunity of include QoL and some mechanics of P3 and P4 in these remasters, specially Pikmin 2. Things like rewind, options for lock-on, call pikmins to your base, should be so good.

 

[JorgenRaft]

Some spoilers in the video, FYI.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Still haven't platinumed that last Sage Trial yet. Got all the others, though. I'm just procrastinating...

 

[BlackthornOrion]

Now that the game's been out for a bit and most have played it or even completed it, what's people's consensus on the protagonists?

I remember there being quite some discussion here about whether the character creator was good or bad. How did that play out? Was it worth it to include it or were predefined MCs like in the previous games better?

With how large the supporting cast gets as you rescue more people and the base camp starts to fill up, personally I didn't really mind the player character being largely a blank slate.

I'm not sure I'd want it to be a permanent fixture for the series, and I'd definitely want a predefined personality if they go back to something more like 1/2/3 where the playable captains have to do the heavy lifting, but at least for this game I thought having a character creator and leaning more on NPCs was a fun change-up.

 

[Bulletbill10]

I had a great time with the game, just need to get some platinum medals, but otherwise at fully done. I beat it with my wife playing the pebble pitcher. This really makes the game very much easier most of the time, as we pretty much had unlimited bomb rocks, carrots, and other items . I'm excited to play it again without multiplayer support. Lots of great ideas packed into the game. The description of my experience are going to undermine the points I'm about to try and make below, and I realize that. My wife would have never let me play it without her though, she really fell in love with the co-op of Pikmin 3, but doesn't feel confident enough to do a solo run of this game.

All the above said, I think this is my least favorite main pikmin game. Pikmin is probably my favorite nintendo series overall, but something just felt off about it in this game. The world, enemies, -pedias, and all the trappings are great. I think it's the gameplay. The gameplay is still aping the same ideas, similar in many ways, but it doesn't quite require the same set of skills. I think it's mostly about what Correojon was saying up above. Decisions and planning used to matter so much in pikmin, you could really and truly waste a day if you weren't careful, but now most things just take less, and you'll get through fine as long as you try. Less thought, less planning, less coordination in controls. I get this increases accessibility and gets people into the game, but I want that challenge. Unfortunately, I need the game to kind of push me into it, or I'm not as likely to actually do it if I'm doing some kind of self-imposed challenge run, like no-death or minimum days (though I'll probably attempt the latter later). I just want a little more friction built in. The older games felt more tuned to the experience I was looking for. The peak of the series for me was in the challenge mode of Pikmin 3. That's where you really had to learn, plan, and trial and error to get the top scores. I hope we get some DLC closer to that, especially with how some of the upgrades aren't given a chance to shine. The only part of this game that really approached that was some of the trial of the leaf tasks, mostly the last one.

Don't take it as a ruined experience, it's still my #2 game of the year. But if I'm rating various parts of Pikmin it's: Pikmin 3 challenges >Pikmin 2 challenges > Pikmin 1 > Pikmin 2 > Pikmin 3 > Pikmin 4. The other games are just among my all time favorites, and this didn't live up to that for me. A lot of fun though.

 

[OctoSplattack]

Well, then. I wish I thought of this. People are starting to cook.

Spoiler: Sixth Trial Speedrun

 

[Revolsin]

Some spoilers in the video, FYI.

dunkey just always pulls some straight magic to sell you on a game you never had any interest in

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Just finished the game at over 50 hours. I did everything except all the platinums on the challenges/battles (and didn't read much of the uh, other characters entries in the treasure book and Piklopedia.. I just don't have the desire to beat my head against the wall just for completion's sake. I really enjoyed the game a lot. There was so much they added to it to make it more streamlined and easier to get into. This is both a positive and negative thing for me, as it did make the game a lot easier in some ways, but to make up for it it did make a lot of things far more convenient, such as the addition of having three separate movable bases in each level. Oatchi is ridiculously OP, but oh so fun to use. Same with the Ice Pikmin. Freezing the crap out of enemies is pure cheese but it feels great to just spam them and watch them shatter. I also enjoy how they have more utility as well, being able to freeze the water. It's applied well for both puzzles and combat purposes.

Really loved the level designs here, hard to pick a favorite... Might be between Blossoming Arcadia and Hero's Hideaway. But all the levels were really fun to explore, fight enemies, and collect treasures in. Similarly, there were a lot of really cool boss battles like the Disco ball, and the final boss was really fun and had awesome music that kinda seemed out of place for a Pikmin game but somehow worked really well. Caves were a mixed bag. Some really cool ones like Kingdom of Beasts, Engulfed Castle, Seafloor Resort, and Dream Home. Night missions were also a mixed bag. Really love the idea of them, and the Glow Pikmin are really awesome. They do get kind of repetitive though, and it kind of felt like just going through the motions after the first handful or so. Some of the later ones do get pretty challenging though so I did appreciate that. I wish I could have just freely explored at night, with the green goo hidden in various places or guarded by powerful enemies.

I felt similarly to the Dandori battles and challenges. Fun at first, but kind of became a slog after a few of them. The one thing that was a straight up disappointment to me was the Winged Pikmin were terribly underutilized. I absolutely adored them in 3, and even there you didn't get them till over 60% into the game, and again here you get them really late, and there abilities aren't as properly utilized as they are in 3. I also really dislike that there wasn't any impending doom that forced you to manage your time as efficiently as possible. I loved having that little bit of extra pressure on me to perform well.

Overall though I really enjoyed the game. It did feel a bit bloated, but the core gameplay loop of exploring, battling, making paths and finding treasure is so strong that any gripes I have with the game seem fairly minor. I think I enjoy the simplicity of Pikmin 1 and 3 the most because of how lean, mean, and focused they are. But there's just so much to love about what 4 brings to the table that makes it one of my favorite games of the year. If I had to rank the series I'd probably say 3 > 1 > 4 > Hey! > 2

 

[correojon]

I'm having some mixed feelings with Pikmin 2, a lot of things have improved from 1 but the caves...I think they have several problems:

• They're too long. This is made worse by the inability to restart a cave quickly; You can escape, but if you lost any Pikmin you won't get them back. Also, if you make a mistake in an advanced sub-level, you'll have to repeat everything from the begining if you bail out. You can even lock yourself in an unwinnable situation in floor 1, but not suffer the consequences until floor 6.
• They're too punishing: A lot of times a mistake may cost you more than 10+ Pikmin. Worse of all is that a lot of times these are things outside of your control, like a rock randomly falling on your Pikmin when that mechanic has never appeared before in the game and there was no warning that something liek that could happen. Or you face a special enemy that only appears in that cave, usually in the latest level so you have to discover how to beat it and if you don't, it's back to floor 1.
• They disincentivize good Dandori: You can't leave your Pikmin alone doing something because a nasty surprise may pop-up from anywhere and wipe out your squad. For example, after breaking a barrier I lost 35+ Pikmins in a moment because a poisonous enemy was hiding there. Another time a grey frog appeared from nowhere and, as the Pikmin where all bunched up after destroying the barrier, killed a ton of them in one jump. And both times I had Olimar there supervising the work, but I was controlling Louie on another part of the map! I'd swear that I checked if there was anything behind the barrier before breaking it, but I suppose the enemies were hiding underground or just popped out from the ceiling, like when a rock fell from the ceiling on top of a group of 15 Pikmins that were transporting a treasure.
• You can bring in whatever Pikmin you want, so there's no reason not to always bring whites and reds/purples to uncover treasure and improve your attack. This ends up making all caves feel too similar. The game itself pushes for this: One time I entered a cave that requested red and yellow Pikmin, but there was some treasure that could only be attained with white Pikmin (to add insult to injury, it was deep in the cave, in floor 3 or deeper). So, after beating the cave, I had to go back to the base, pick some whites, go back to the cave and replay it. Not very fun. Even with procedural generation, they don't change much. So the best way is to bring a bit of everything (well, you can skip blue as if the cave doesn't ask for them it usually won't feature any water) and play every cave in the same way.

When you add up all of this, the best way to play in caves is to move with a small group micromanaging absolutely everything and just leave the other captain babysitting the Pikmin on the base and maybe use him to bring some other Pikmin to you in case you need them. Trying to do several things at once with both captains, or leaving the Pikmins to do stuff by themselves is a recipe for disaster. This is not a fun way to play the game and is more jarring when you remember that in the overworld you're not forced to watch how the Pikmin are destroying a barrier while you can't do anything. This is very bizarre, how in a game where you're supposed to make strategic choices and optimize, suddenly the game asks you to sit down and wait. Playing this way makes caves much more longer than they already are, so the problem is made even worse.

I just repaid 100% of the debt, I'll keep going a bit to see if it changes for the better but at this moment I'd preffer jumping on to Pikmin 3 Deluxe or attempting another run at Pikmin 1 to improve my record.

I'd say right now my ranking is 4 > 1 > 2, but I'm liking 1 more and more every day and I may end up putting it at the top.
I'm not considering 3 because it's been 10 years since I played it so I won't add it until I play through it again.

This is a really great comment!

It got me thinking about Pikmin 4 and how something felt slightly off about it to me. You somewhat hit the nail on its head. Pikmin 4 is a great game, but it heavily depends on the sum of its pieces to create engagement. As you mentioned none of the individual components actually require much thinking. I found myself quite often just running from here to there and back again just doing everything in my path as efficiently as possible. But few of those actions actually required much thinking beyond 'what type to throw on here and how many?'.

Dandori challenges on the other hand compensated for the ease with which you can collect items by putting you on a timer. Now you're also thinking about how to pick everything up as speedy as possible. There was one that stood out to me in particular, it's the challenge with purple, yellow and ice Pikmin where you have 2 lakes that can be frozen. Just running around efficiently did not help me there...

Maybe when really optimizing your gameplay these kind of hurdles will appear more often. I remember seeing some people discussing about beating the demo asap, which required some cool strats. However, I think those kind of things should've been enforced more in general.

I think this is my main complaint with the game and why it is great game, but not a masterpiece. Anyways, this is how I feel about it atm, I'll definitely be paying more attention to it when I'll do my replay.

100% agree, I remember the Dandori challenge you mention, it took some tries. During the main campaign you're taught this relaxed way of playing and then the Dandori Challenges ramp up the difficulty and start requiring some much more hardcore management that you haven't experienced anywhere else in the game. It's like there's an intermediate step missing to present situations where you need to be more specific with the numbers of every Pikmin Type, among other things.

While I agree with most of your post, I think Nintendo missed an opportunity of include QoL and some mechanics of P3 and P4 in these remasters, specially Pikmin 2. Things like rewind, options for lock-on, call pikmins to your base, should be so good.

Yup, absolutely! An improved AI so 3 or 4 Pikmin don't get lost every time you turn a corner, some improvements in the aiming system (a bit of auto-aim or sticking to the enemies while you pass the cursor over them would be great), modern camera controls and everything that you said would make playing Pikmin 1&2 much more enjoyable today. Pikmin 1 specially is very rough. Also, pins in the map!

 

[totofogo]

First Kirby now this

 

[Bulletbill10]

I went back and played some Pikmin 3, and I think I underestimated it's level design when thinking of how the new one ranked. Especially with the multiple captains being so effective and interesting. I might be remembering the old ones through rose colored glasses of nostalgia. We'll see when I play the first two again after the physical release on switch.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I went back and played some Pikmin 3, and I think I underestimated it's level design when thinking of how the new one ranked. Especially with the multiple captains being so effective and interesting. I might be remembering the old ones through rose colored glasses of nostalgia. We'll see when I play the first two again after the physical release on switch.

Yeah, 3 has my favorite level design. Formidable Oak is the best sequence in all of Pikmin. and Twilight River is an absolute delight.

 

[DenkeyKong]

Lol, why does nothing respawn? I finally got my purple onion and now all I could do was get pellet posies (they don't rebloom either apparently after you've collected them for the day). I think that's 1 of the major minor gripes I have with this game.

The other being how it tells you exactly how many levels a cave has via the percentage after you've done one level. That really ruins the mystery and tension of how deep a cave will go. The percentage really doesn't add anything imo.

Anyway I just beat the sages trial! And they're great! Weirdly enough story 3 was the hardest for me, really took like 7 or 8 times to barely squeeze through.

 

[correojon]

After beating the main campaign, I'm giving up on Pikmin 2. I explored the new area that unlocks after repaying the debt, got into a cave and got hit hard by the worse parts of caves. Out of nowhere a Bulblax materialized on top of my squad right next to a hole on the ground, falling on us and sending 35 Pikmin over the edge into immediate death. This left me with 65 Pikmin, but only 3 Yellows. The next floor was completely focused around them, so making any kind of progress was incredibly tedious. I wasn't having any fun, and I had been feeling this way on caves for a while, so I decided that that was it for me.

I've started playing the challenge mode, but I don't think I'll do it all. One thing I don't like about it is that you're "forced" to kill everything because enemies drop treasure, so this robs you of one of the most interesting decisions you can make in Pikmin: Deciding when to kill and when to ignore enemies. I'm also not seeing a lot of place to strategize, you just have to do everything as fast as possible, but the layouts are so simple that there is not much room to try different approaches. Killing enemies as fast as possible seems to be the most important skill, but I find that to be the less interesting thing you can do in Pikmin.

I'll give it a chance and keep playing some more challenges, but I've already downloaded Pikmin 3 and I'm dying to return to it after 10 years

 

[DenkeyKong]

After beating the main campaign, I'm giving up on Pikmin 2. I explored the new area that unlocks after repaying the debt, got into a cave and got hit hard by the worse parts of caves. Out of nowhere a Bulblax materialized on top of my squad right next to a hole on the ground, falling on us and sending 35 Pikmin over the edge into immediate death. This left me with 65 Pikmin, but only 3 Yellows. The next floor was completely focused around them, so making any kind of progress was incredibly tedious. I wasn't having any fun, and I had been feeling this way on caves for a while, so I decided that that was it for me.

I've started playing the challenge mode, but I don't think I'll do it all. One thing I don't like about it is that you're "forced" to kill everything because enemies drop treasure, so this robs you of one of the most interesting decisions you can make in Pikmin: Deciding when to kill and when to ignore enemies. I'm also not seeing a lot of place to strategize, you just have to do everything as fast as possible, but the layouts are so simple that there is not much room to try different approaches. Killing enemies as fast as possible seems to be the most important skill, but I find that to be the less interesting thing you can do in Pikmin.

I'll give it a chance and keep playing some more challenges, but I've already downloaded Pikmin 3 and I'm dying to return to it after 10 years

That's Pikmin 2 for ya! A hardcore survival grind adventure. I'm looking forward to revisiting it when the physical releases though, only played it once 2 and a half years ago.

 

[JorgenRaft]

Lol, why does nothing respawn? I finally got my purple onion and now all I could do was get pellet posies (they don't rebloom either apparently after you've collected them for the day). I think that's 1 of the major minor gripes I have with this game.

The other being how it tells you exactly how many levels a cave has via the percentage after you've done one level. That really ruins the mystery and tension of how deep a cave will go. The percentage really doesn't add anything imo.

Anyway I just beat the sages trial! And they're great! Weirdly enough story 3 was the hardest for me, really took like 7 or 8 times to barely squeeze through.

Yeah, it’s lame. I did test how much the pellets in each area gives you and I think area 2 will give you the most Pikmin at around 85, iirc.

 

[correojon]

That's Pikmin 2 for ya! A hardcore survival grind adventure. I'm looking forward to revisiting it when the physical releases though, only played it once 2 and a half years ago.

I can take hard games, but the problem is that the playstyle in caves is just boring. You have to handhold every Pikmin because the moment you leave them on their own they're going to be smashed by a falling rock, a hidden enemy, or any other random shenanigans. Thus, having 2 captains and trying to Dandorize is discouraged. It's not that the game is unfair (it is) or that it is hard; It's that it pushes you to the most simplistic and boring playstyle. In Pikmin 1 you got that dopamin boost when you designed a clever plan, implemented it and it turned out how you had planned. That's the peak and the defining experience of Pikmin for me. But the caves in 2 completely squash any chance of that happening.

Anyway, I started playing 3 Deluxe and OMG, the jump from 2 is huge! All the rough edges from 1 and 2 are gone! I love that it follows the template of 1, showing you a quick summary at the end of the day with a graph, a couple of scenes and then it's back into action. Pikmin 4 should have followed a similar approach instead of all the dead times it puts between every day. I wish 3 had a hard time limit like 1, because you never really are in danger fo running out of juice and soon you have a big buffer, so that ultimately takes away all the sense of urgency and you are too relaxed. I'm just on my 4th or 5th day, so I have a lot to go still, I just unlocked the 3rd captain.

My perfect Pikmin game would be something like Pikmin 1, but with at least Pikmin 3 (or 4) QoL improvements. Seegin that Pikmin 3 reuses the template of 1, and 4 reuses that of 2 with the caves (although much improved!), let's hope Pikmin 5 is another take on 1 again!!

 

[Stilt Village]

Anyway I just beat the sages trial! And they're great! Weirdly enough story 3 was the hardest for me, really took like 7 or 8 times to barely squeeze through.

Same, that one took me several tries, and I still only just barely scraped by in the end. I feel like it's definitely the most complicated challenge to strategize in the entire game. A lot of them came together well enough first try just by going around gathering Pikmin and clearing the way first, but this one feels so constantly tight with your numbers and has so much to take into account. There was often a "trick" to the sage leaf trials, the last one being the most obvious example, but the third one in lieu of that was seemingly just on another level from everything else in the game.

Overall, game was good, but I concur with all the complaints about the controls/AI that have been around since the demo (and will add that carrying is broken now for some reason), and with the sentiments of the level design being really dumbed down from past games. If you put The Forest Navel in Pikmin 4, a lot of tasks that used to require some thought wouldn't anymore, for better or worse, but it would still arguably be the hardest level in the game. I don't think there was anything in 4's levels as involved as the fiery path where you need to juggle all three types of Pikmin to get the ship parts out safely. And Beady Long Legs would hard counter Oatchi in a way none of 4's bosses do. You'd have to look to the harder challenge stages to find something with that much strategy or raw difficulty in 4. Not that I minded so much that it was easy, the enemies are still more threatening than they were in 3 even if you have the means to absolutely destroy them harder than ever. But the level design definitely wasn't as satisfying as past entries, bar the obvious exception of the cave layouts being much improved from 2's, though at the same time they now have a real issue with being frequently short, forgettable, and anticlimactic. The final boss also ended up being a poor last impression because it was basically an overlong Mario boss fight transplanted into Pikmin. Felt like they were missing the point or didn't get the series.

I feel like they unfortunately lost a big chunk of Pikmin's identity with this one, between the music and UI, the simplified level design, and the ultimately unnecessary hub area stuff taking the place of the old end of day review and breather. The story and new characters also continue to get worse with every game after 2 for some reason. The GameCube Pikmin games had surprisingly mature narratives and felt like they had something to say about nature and survival and society, 3 was a kiddier version of that with shallower characters and a cheesy moral about teamwork, and 4's plot is just kind of dumb and toothless. You could be forgiven for forgetting you're even supposed to be stranded on the planet in this one, all the Robinsonade stuff and sense of discovering the unknown has been thoroughly excised. I'm not sure what they gained from this weird reboot-ish thing they did either, since they cram almost everything from past games in there in messy abridged form anyway.

Overall, I'd say: 3>1>4>2 in terms of how fun they are to play

 

[AngryAlchemist]

After taking a few days break from this game, I came back enjoying it a lot, then started getting tired of the tedium again. I still think it's a fun game, a good game, but man ... a Pikmin game with almost no strategy ...

I went back and played some Pikmin 3, and I think I underestimated it's level design when thinking of how the new one ranked. Especially with the multiple captains being so effective and interesting. I might be remembering the old ones through rose colored glasses of nostalgia. We'll see when I play the first two again after the physical release on switch.

Pikmin 3 is a VERY easy game to underestimate. What I find funny about Pikmin 3 is it's one of those games where it being so easy probably lowkey undersells how good of a strategy game it is on a first playthrough. It's a Pikmin game where bosses and enemies face little challenge (which is a bit unfortunate) but strategizing and trying to do things efficiently as possible is very encouraged by the story. It's funny because when I first played the game a few years ago, even as my first Pikmin game my first thought was that it was both too easy and also that the controls were not as streamlined as I was expecting (I remember it took me a few hours to realize how to efficiently split Pikmin between captains). So despite sucking ass at the game (I was really bad), I still went away thinking that it was too easy and that it took until the final few missions to really get going, it felt like the game took too long to really get going and introduce all the mechanics.

I think that's still a problem with 3 to some extent, but replaying it right before 4 came out it really has some of the best strategy in the series. Like I remember thinking that the 3 captains thing was gimmicky because it only ever seemed useful when the game deemed it to be necessary, but on my recent replay even without focusing too much on multitasking I was really surprised how good the mechanic was.

In a lot of ways Pikmin 3 is lowkey what 4 should be. 4 spent so much time marketing Dandori but it feels like the game that minimizes it the most, despite probably being a tad more challenging in a traditional sense than 3. I really feel like it's just too laid back a game.

Overall, I'd say: 3>1>4>2 in terms of how fun they are to play

Yep, this is about how I feel, too. If they ever made a Pikmin 1 release that had the QoL improvements of the Pikmin A.I. found in 2 and 3, it'd probably be the best game in the series and one of the best games of all time. The Gamecube games just did such a better job of capturing that loneliness, weirdness, melancholy and fear and even when 2 gave you a partner, it made up for it by trading in 1's loneliness with 2's weird disturbing vibes. I think 3 at least managed to capture that with some of its bosses, but in retrospect I do kind of regret what it did to the series tone.





Like we ain't ever going back to this

 

[linkwashere]

I am only having fun with the Dandori challenges pursuing the platinum medal. It's the kind of gameplay I enjoy from Pikmin and even then I think the challenges from Pikmin 3 were better, thanks to the three captains at play.

However, regarding the main campaign, there isn't any sense of urgency or need to optimize your strategy and that is a bit of a let down.

Oh well, I will push forward just to enjoy some more Dandori challenges.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Well, then. I wish I thought of this. People are starting to cook.

Spoiler: Sixth Trial Speedrun

Holy shit

 

[Stilt Village]

Yep, this is about how I feel, too. If they ever made a Pikmin 1 release that had the QoL improvements of the Pikmin A.I. found in 2 and 3, it'd probably be the best game in the series and one of the best games of all time. The Gamecube games just did such a better job of capturing that loneliness, weirdness, melancholy and fear and even when 2 gave you a partner, it made up for it by trading in 1's loneliness with 2's weird disturbing vibes. I think 3 at least managed to capture that with some of its bosses, but in retrospect I do kind of regret what it did to the series tone.

I was a little disappointed with it at the time because I grew up with 2, but I think 3 in isolation does kind of work tonally. Asuka Hayazaki's more relaxed musical direction still instantly sounds like Pikmin, the aesthetic changes like the clean white tech of the Drake and the futuristic blue text serve to differentiate the more naive and optimistic Koppaites from the slightly grungier reality of Hocotate, and there's something interesting about their more innocent, beautiful foray into nature suddenly being interrupted with the most disturbing sequence in the series as you collide with Olimar at the Formidable Oak, and are left with that ominous final note of "maybe it wasn't an accident after all". The Formidable Oak is such an amazing ending, and the game would be lesser without it. But then 4 kind of just doubled down on all the blander aspects and stuff, yeah

 

[DenkeyKong]

Like said above, it's funny indeed how they decided to go all in on Dandori for Pikmin 4, but then modelled it after a Pikmin 2 style gameplay loop. Caves are basically a complete counter to Dandori, because the second you enter them you literally throw away everything you've put in motion; They're done completely asynchronous. On top of that the overworld design isn't as refined (also mentioned before).

How about having Dingo permanently act as a third captain? Could that make the overworld more interesting? It would also help flesh out his character a bit more. (another weakness of the game: the NPC's are mostly kinda flat if you ask me) To dissolve the argument of caves being too crowded with 3 controllable characters, you can simply have him wait outside, which could even fit in for his character.

Then, if you want to go even spicier: you can control Dingo in the overworld, while your character and Oatchi can tackle the cave. Now that would be some Dandori! (Or would it be too tricky?)

 

[DenkeyKong]

Like we ain't ever going back to this

Pikmin 3 has got some Pikminish music as well I'd say. For example:





I do miss the rainy days, they were strangely moody and cosy somehow.

I think for Pikmin 4 too much of the music is more backgroundish and not meant to make an impact, but rather support the scene and what's happening. There probably is no song in this game that will randomly pop into my head 6 months from now. Nintendo tried the same approach with Metroid Dread, which got a mixed reception as well. It's not a bad style per se, just not as flavourful or memorable.

There is one song I really like though and that's the opening of day one. It's such a nice complement to the end of day!