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Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Spoiler Thread

Okay so I want to ask this. Think it makes better for an open question in the spoiler thread rather than its own thread. I might rehash stuff I’ve said here earlier, but so curious to hear other people’s thoughts.

Do you think Tears of the Kingdom has better worldbuilding than Breath of the Wild?

Because I’m sort of surprising myself with saying that no, I think BotW takes an edge here. I think it’s the aesthetics that plays a lot into me thinking that, with me just having a soft spot for the high-tech, sort of austere look of the Sheikah, compared to the aesthetic flair that the Zonai brought to TotK. I also think that the Sheikah benefited a lot from the mystique. Sure, the Zonai had this working against them, since they’re more prominent in the story, but I felt like the world of BotW was more alluring to m because of this.

In general, it was a bit more engrossing and authentic for me to dig into the Sheikah, their origins and what they left behind. Rhoam’s speech felt more engaging than the comparatively dry exposition dumps about the imprisoning war, and the divine beasts felt like they had more of a context in the world than the temples of TotK.

Finally, the world of BotW feels coherent and makes sense. TotK is coherent as well, but something about it feels strangely contrived to me. I can’t really compute how these sort of ethereal beings that the Zonai are built this huge factory in the depths that made tires and fans and stuff. On top of that, it felt like the fact that their kingdom was sent to the heavens and torn up didn’t quite get a satisfactory answer. (Which might cook down to me misremembering, I admit)
I kind of agree to be honest. The Zonai aren’t really well explained, and not even in the sense of being mysterious and leaving it to the imagination, the game seems almost contradictory about their relationship to Hyrule. They came from the sky, yet most of their ruins are in the Depths (the ones in the sky were explicitly raised from the surface). They had an expansive civilization, but as of the time of Hyrule’s founding, only Rauru and Mineru seem to remain as the last of their kind (and they don’t seem all that anxious about that?). Was there a massive Zonai Empire that predates Hyrule, and if so, why did a Zonai found Hyrule (The Hylians seemed to see them as Sky people/gods rather than already present on the surface so… that doesn’t seem to fit the idea of an older, expansive surface empire that is present in the game?)

BotW is simpler but it’s still more consistent. We know who the Sheikah are, what their general deal is, and can assume Calamity Ganon is the same threat we’ve seen many times to this point.
 
Okay so I want to ask this. Think it makes better for an open question in the spoiler thread rather than its own thread. I might rehash stuff I’ve said here earlier, but so curious to hear other people’s thoughts.

Do you think Tears of the Kingdom has better worldbuilding than Breath of the Wild?

Because I’m sort of surprising myself with saying that no, I think BotW takes an edge here. I think it’s the aesthetics that plays a lot into me thinking that, with me just having a soft spot for the high-tech, sort of austere look of the Sheikah, compared to the aesthetic flair that the Zonai brought to TotK. I also think that the Sheikah benefited a lot from the mystique. Sure, the Zonai had this working against them, since they’re more prominent in the story, but I felt like the world of BotW was more alluring to m because of this.

In general, it was a bit more engrossing and authentic for me to dig into the Sheikah, their origins and what they left behind. Rhoam’s speech felt more engaging than the comparatively dry exposition dumps about the imprisoning war, and the divine beasts felt like they had more of a context in the world than the temples of TotK.

Finally, the world of BotW feels coherent and makes sense. TotK is coherent as well, but something about it feels strangely contrived to me. I can’t really compute how these sort of ethereal beings that the Zonai are built this huge factory in the depths that made tires and fans and stuff. On top of that, it felt like the fact that their kingdom was sent to the heavens and torn up didn’t quite get a satisfactory answer. (Which might cook down to me misremembering, I admit)
The Divine Beasts are fucking awesome in the context of the world and the role they play, and their designs from the outside are so striking. Being in Naboris and going outside on its balcony watching it stomp around in the desert was breathtaking.

I’m so happy TOTK brought back themed dungeons not only because it’s something I really wanted, but maybe it’ll make it easier to appreciate the DBs for what they were now that that complaint about them has been addressed. They’re a really unique concept that obviously wouldn’t work in every game, but I’m glad we got them and I’m glad they’ll remain something that BotW can call it’s own.

As for the Zonai being ethereal beings with a factory that made fans and wheels, that’s just one of those charming “gameplay-first lore” moments from Nintendo to me lol. It’s fun and it’s unique. I love it. I don’t know if I’m explaining this right, but tailoring lore/story to gameplay instead of the other way around is how Nintendo ends up with some of their most creative lore, because no one would think to do those concepts when writing a story on its own.
 
It looks like we've reached the early stages of people building transistors, guessing there will be some breakthroughs as players are able to refine these.

 
Has anyone been watching any speedruns? I didn't for a few days and it has already changed from "doing the game really fast in ways I can recognize" to "totally bending and breaking the game". It's already under an hour!
 
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Alright, since I am not very busy this evening I have time for some random musings. Feel free to skip if you're not interested in crazy ramblings...

Playing TotK one thought that was gnawing in the back of my head was what this game means for the future of the series. According to Aonuma the next mainline 3D entry will follow the same template, which I personally think is rather vaguely defined beyond being another "open air" game. TotK obviously builds upon BotW and has many parallels to that game but also walks certain things back. I wouldn't be surprised if the next game after this drops some of the BotW-isms like shrines, durability, Koroks etc. if only to keep things fresh and for the development team to challenge themselves the same way they did with the Sheikah Runes. I said this before but I expect future games will freely switch in and out elements of Zelda games as they see fit.

That leaves three aspects that are big question marks: The characters, the lore/timeline and the map. As far as the latter goes, the recent Ask the Developer interview had this exchange:

The Legend of Zelda series seems to be one of those franchises where the visual style and game mechanics often change drastically for each entry. Was there ever a discussion about creating a new game with a completely new world, rather than a sequel?

Aonuma
: No, not really. Although the previous title, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, has its own conclusion, we started to come up with new ideas that we wanted to bring to life in this already realized version of Hyrule, so our direction in making a sequel did not change.

Fujibayashi: Just like somewhere you know inside and out, we understand where everything is in Hyrule from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, and because of that, we believed it was possible to create new gameplay. For this reason, in the initial proposal, we clearly stated "the setting will not change" as an important concept. Even when I shared this with the team members here, there were no objections, and we were all aligned on that idea from that point onward.

Dohta: When I was working on the programming for Wuhu Island during Wii Sports Resort's development, I remembered Miyamoto-san saying that he wanted to “turn the actual stages of games into characters.” What he meant by that was to create one island and use that as a base to add various kinds of gameplay in different games. The idea of having new discoveries in the same setting was striking to me. I'd been wanting to try this idea with other titles, and I supposed this game would leverage that kind of approach.

There's a lot of merit to the argument posted earlier in this thread that this is the "ultimate Hyrule", a more realistic depiction of the kingdom that previously only existed as an abstract representation. Theoretically they could keep adding to this almost like an MMORPG and show it during different time periods. After all, we’ve only experienced a timespan of 3-5 years at best from BotW onwards and Age of Calamity showed us only glimpses of what Hyrule looked like 100 years ago. Whereas Hyrule during the time of Rauru, over 10'000 years ago, still bears striking similarities to the Hyrule we get to explore in the present. Whatever those changes might be, it's not going to fundamentally change the underlying topography. For an adventure series to revisit the same location three times in a row isn't very appealing, however, so they basically have three options:
  • Blank slate with a completely new Hyrule
  • Radical changes to this Hyrule (terraforming, mirror dimension etc.)
  • A new region entirely

Which way they go will depend on a variety of factors, most importantly gameplay of course. But I think there’s also a good chance that Nintendo intends for these incarnations of Zelda and Link to be the "default" and BotW/TotK to become the foundation of next few games. We already got two mainline entries and a spinoff in Age of Calamity and I think there's probably more gas in the tank if they play their cards right.

I don't really see the current mythology involving the Zonai, Sheikah and Ganon(dorf) as a retcon of the previous games, more as the logical conclusion of its worldbuilding. Historic recurrence and birth and rebirth are central tenets of this world with smaller as well as larger events endlessly repeating and mirroring each other in imperfect and overlapping loops. It's why names, characters and concepts pop up all the time in different places across the series. At least in the games that Fujibayashi had a hand in, repeating progress and decline are a central part of how the world of Zelda works. Even Skyward Sword which is supposed to be the beginning of the saga depicts the remnants of a more advanced civilization that existed before it. As I wrote in the timeline thread, I think that BotW and TotK take the cyclical nature of the series, this endless battle of good vs. evil, and push it even further. The foundation of Hyrule by Rauru and Sonia is just the beginning of a new "cycle", so to speak, with its own recurring events within.

BotW and TotK, the latter more overtly, reference things that have happened in the previous games: The creation and the downfall of Hyrule, the Imprisoning War, the sages, the rise, defeat and resurrection of Ganondorf/Ganon etc. It's history literally repeating itself (or I guess rhyming?) over the course of millennia. It stands to reason that future games, if they continue where TotK left off, will take a similar approach in that they will reference previous games but put their own spin on them.

Putting my tinfoil hat away for a second, the following is just a combination of wishful thinking and unhinged theorycrafting.

It's difficult to map the events of BotW and TotK onto any existing timeline but I think the closest match is probably a combination of OoT and ALttP. Age of Calamity even has an Aghanim counterpart in Astor. It's a funny coincidence that in the original timeline these two games lead to the events of Ocarina of Seasons and Ages, two Fujibayashi games. Funny because a sequel to TotK that follows those two games in their broadest strokes probably makes a lot of sense: Ganon(dorf) has been defeated, Hyrule is at peace, Link is led to a different land(s) and has to defeat a new villain but it's all part of a secret plot to resurrect Ganon(dorf). The memories in TotK even suggest that Koume and Kotake were with Ganondorf during the Imprisoning War. Yona's character profile also references a different Zora domain which only fits the Zora Village from Ages.

Fujibayashi is known to revisit concepts and ideas in his games so it'd be interesting to see whether this is something he would like to do again. Of course things like the role of Zelda would have to be changed for a game like this. If I'm in the mood I might pen some rough ideas for this hypothetical sequel.
 
Yeah, the character bio for Yona saying she’s from a different domain immediately stood out to me. I think that’s the first reference to a land outside of Hyrule

I also think a certain character in Hateno said Cece “had been away from the village for a while.” That could mean just somewhere else in Hyrule, but could also be taken as she was out of Hyrule entirely as an explanation for why she wasn’t in BotW at all.
 
Is there a reward like the medals for killing all bosses?

I’m trying to keep track of each one I kill using my notes app, but the depths ones not having a subtitle is making it hard to tally
 
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So is the White Sword of the Sky good? I just got it after a quest that I thought would have given me a better reward lol.
 
So is the White Sword of the Sky good? I just got it after a quest that I thought would have given me a better reward lol.
Think that one is just supposed to be a cool Skyward Sword nod that tops off a quest that as a whole is a Skyward Sword nod
 
What the fuck

I have been reading spoiler impressions

Why did no one tell me how fucking awesome the Skyrule Castle part was

It was essentially a combat dungeon, constant lightning storm, amazing and changing music. And holy shit at that epic mid-game show of force from Ganondorf. His giant spirit appearing and all the sages coming to help was awesome. BotW had nothing like this mid game story-check.
 
This may be a obvious conclusion others have arrived to, but I think the Zonai are rabbit people, for a couple of reasons:
  1. There's a lot of moon and sun imagery in this game. It's subtle but it's there, and Sonia is often the one paired with the sun imagery, even having Rauru place Sundelions on her grave. Thus if we assume Sonia = Sun, than her opposite Rauru would equally the moon, and there's lots tying rabbits to the moon in Japanese culture specifically.
  2. When Ganondorf gets a secret stone it's immediately shown to give him some level of power over the moon, the Secret Stones are Zonai in origin thus if they have connections to the moon than so do the Zonai.
  3. The game feels like it's trying to pay homage to ALttP in the same way BOTW paid homage to TLoZ1. Namely in that ToTK takes place after an ancient Imprisoning War that involved sages sealing Ganondorf, and in that it also features its own sorta "Dark World." Regardless ALttP is the game where Link turns into a rabbit.
That's all I got, but I think it's probably a closer guess than goat people. If they are rabbits tho, this is wildly speculative, but maybe they originally came from the moon? They would in the scenario still be "descending from the heavens."
 
Anyone else feel like Lookout Landing was supposed to play a larger role in the finale? Like, everytime you complete a regional phenomenon that race joins Lookout Landing, there are three squads of troops that you do mass combat with, it feels like you're building an army there but it never pays off.
 
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I touched upon this in the other thread, but I feel like this game took some good steps to mitigate the whole iffy angle of "brown desert man invades and destroys the beautiful green elf kingdom" thing. Having one of the founders of Hyrule be a black woman, as well as multiple black Hylians as NPCs and a prominent Gerudo party member who assists you in the final battle against Ganondorf makes it feel a bit less dicey overall.

It's still a fantasy series about how royalty was blessed by gods, but it's a bit less outwardly reactionary now I feel lol.
 
What the fuck

I have been reading spoiler impressions

Why did no one tell me how fucking awesome the Skyrule Castle part was

It was essentially a combat dungeon, constant lightning storm, amazing and changing music. And holy shit at that epic mid-game show of force from Ganondorf. His giant spirit appearing and all the sages coming to help was awesome. BotW had nothing like this mid game story-check.

It’s still probably one of the greatest feelings of pure joy I’ve had playing a game, finding out that mid-game story checks made a return.
 
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I touched upon this in the other thread, but I feel like this game took some good steps to mitigate the whole iffy angle of "brown desert man invades and destroys the beautiful green elf kingdom" thing. Having one of the founders of Hyrule be a black woman, as well as multiple black Hylians as NPCs and a prominent Gerudo party member who assists you in the final battle against Ganondorf makes it feel a bit less dicey overall.

It's still a fantasy series about how royalty was blessed by gods, but it's a bit less outwardly reactionary now I feel lol.
It feels like one of those things that they don't really want to retcon about the character yet still try to (clumsily) contextualize. Also, maybe it's my eyes, but it feels like his skin is greener than it's ever been before in an attempt to set him further apart from the Gerudo and make him look more demonic. Same with what we assume are Koume and Kotake in the memories.
 
What the fuck

I have been reading spoiler impressions

Why did no one tell me how fucking awesome the Skyrule Castle part was

It was essentially a combat dungeon, constant lightning storm, amazing and changing music. And holy shit at that epic mid-game show of force from Ganondorf. His giant spirit appearing and all the sages coming to help was awesome. BotW had nothing like this mid game story-check.
didn't know there was a story aspect to it, I just showed up before completing the four dungeons, got my clothes and weapons, and left lol
 
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This may be a obvious conclusion others have arrived to, but I think the Zonai are rabbit people, for a couple of reasons:
  1. There's a lot of moon and sun imagery in this game. It's subtle but it's there, and Sonia is often the one paired with the sun imagery, even having Rauru place Sundelions on her grave. Thus if we assume Sonia = Sun, than her opposite Rauru would equally the moon, and there's lots tying rabbits to the moon in Japanese culture specifically.
  2. When Ganondorf gets a secret stone it's immediately shown to give him some level of power over the moon, the Secret Stones are Zonai in origin thus if they have connections to the moon than so do the Zonai.
  3. The game feels like it's trying to pay homage to ALttP in the same way BOTW paid homage to TLoZ1. Namely in that ToTK takes place after an ancient Imprisoning War that involved sages sealing Ganondorf, and in that it also features its own sorta "Dark World." Regardless ALttP is the game where Link turns into a rabbit.
That's all I got, but I think it's probably a closer guess than goat people. If they are rabbits tho, this is wildly speculative, but maybe they originally came from the moon? They would in the scenario still be "descending from the heavens."
The BotW -> Tloz1 and Totk -> Alttp connections are fascinating tho
 
As much as I love the game I just can feel not disappointed that really one new town added is Lookout Landing. Others like Tarrey Town and Hateno got extended but I was so sure that Sky Town is not even question.
 
Interesting lore tidbit from Tauro saying the Zonai Ruins in Faron still predate the Sky Island ruins.

There’s still a lot about them shrouded in mystery even though TOTK is literally about them entirely lol
 
As much as I love the game I just can feel not disappointed that really one new town added is Lookout Landing. Others like Tarrey Town and Hateno got extended but I was so sure that Sky Town is not even question.
Everything about the way the sky is handled was so weird. It featured heavily in marketing to the point of being on the boxart, despite that after the tutorial, there's really only a handful of key sequences involving it (the climb to the Wind and Water Temples and the Thunderhead Isles). The rest of it is just some items, puzzles, minor things like that.

It doesn't really bother me because I wasn't actively looking forward to the sky stuff, but it's strange. Feels a bit like Fujibayashi wanted to expand on the ideas he had for Skyward Sword but still didn't do a ton with it.
 
Interesting lore tidbit from Tauro saying the Zonai Ruins in Faron still predate the Sky Island ruins.

There’s still a lot about them shrouded in mystery even though TOTK is literally about them entirely lol
Doesn't the game point out pretty clearly that the islands (including the Temple of Time where Link was supposed to wake up) were raised to the sky in part to keep them out of Ganondorf's reach?
 
Doesn't the game point out pretty clearly that the islands (including the Temple of Time where Link was supposed to wake up) were raised to the sky in part to keep them out of Ganondorf's reach?
Well, sure (though I’m not sure what you mean about Link supposed to wake up in TOT, but I haven’t done all of the memories if it’s there)

But I’m talking about something different - that the architecture of the Zonai Ruins in Faron is supposedly older than the architecture of the Sky Islands, hinting that the Faron ones still heavily predate even Rauru’s era. Which doesn’t have anything to do if they were raised or not, unless I’m misunderstanding your post.
Everything about the way the sky is handled was so weird. It featured heavily in marketing to the point of being on the boxart, despite that after the tutorial, there's really only a handful of key sequences involving it (the climb to the Wind and Water Temples and the Thunderhead Isles). The rest of it is just some items, puzzles, minor things like that.

It doesn't really bother me because I wasn't actively looking forward to the sky stuff, but it's strange. Feels a bit like Fujibayashi wanted to expand on the ideas he had for Skyward Sword but still didn't do a ton with it.
In my head, what the devs would take as “expanding on Skyward Sword” was less about the amount of content in the sky layer itself, but moreso about the connection between that layer and the surface - the feeling of verticality it gives the game with the ability to seamlessly dive from the sky to the surface and control where you end up, as opposed to essentially a level select with predetermined landing spots that SS had.

You can tell how they wanted that convey feeling - Skydiving in SS is exhilarating… but then you have to drop into a specific portal and then a specific drop point on the surface. It was all too broken up. Whereas in TOTK, that seamless verticality is emphasized throughout the game in terms of just being part of the core exploration loop with the towers, as well as through specific quests like the labyrinths. I would go as far as to call verticality between layers Totk’s “gimmick” just as much as Ultrahand is. So in that sense, I’d say TotK expanding on SS was a rousing success.


But yeah - the Sky layer, taken on its own, is going to be a WW Great Sea in the sky no matter what. I don’t think that’s something that they felt needed to be “expanded” from SS. Though I do agree stuff like a few more bigger islands and a town up there would’ve been awesome.
 
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As much as I love the game I just can feel not disappointed that really one new town added is Lookout Landing. Others like Tarrey Town and Hateno got extended but I was so sure that Sky Town is not even question.
And I was hoping for an underground Mogma town =P .

they probably have it aaaaall planned for the switch 2 exclusive dlc amirite?
 
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Also, was anyone else kind of disappointed by Ganondorf's portrayal here?

The character has never been a super deep or complex villain (even in Wind Waker), but I felt they gave him a menace and gravitas in the other games that had a real weight to it. Stuff like him encountering Young Link in Ocarina Of Time on horseback, the organ, or his failed execution in Twilight Princess. Scenes like that which I remember very clearly. Even his stabbing of Sonia just feels... I don't know, flat, in comparison. He had just a little more character than a cartoonish supervillain in previous games and that wasn't really felt here. The dragon form was cool, I guess.

I think the character suffered generally from being so far removed from the modern day storyline and Link. I would say his general portrayal in Twilight Princess is on the weaker side as well, but even though the overall boss fight was better in TOTK, I'll never forget Ganondorf's death scene, standing up straight with the Master Sword in his chest. Nothing in this game really resonated with me like that, regarding his character.
 
Well, sure (though I’m not sure what you mean about Link supposed to wake up in TOT, but I haven’t done all of the memories if it’s there)

But I’m talking about something different - that the architecture of the Zonai Ruins in Faron is supposedly older than the architecture of the Sky Islands, hinting that the Faron ones still heavily predate even Rauru’s era. Which doesn’t have anything to do if they were raised or not, unless I’m misunderstanding your post.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I suspect that there was a long period of time before the foundation of Hyrule by Rauru.

As for the other thing: In the Message from an Ancient Era you stumble upon stone tablets that were supposedly written by a chamberlain during the time of King Rauru. Wortsworth in Kakariko gives us his own interpretation of the writings but someone tried to translate them to normal English and these two stuck out to me:

Tablet #10 - For the hero's sake

Since her founding has Hyrule seen such hardships, but that is only a small moment of time.
Mineru, the kings older sister, says of this kingdom that it not mote than aware be ycaccht(no idea), not even for the future.
Princess Zelda tells her that this future be already, that a champion born from the sky will come.
Between the two they embarked to find a way to help this champion in that distant time.
Her min treuthe (no idea), sought they to rise the Temple of a time, into the sky to ward it against evil.
All done so in a far distant day, our kingdom might be saved.
In my heart and will go help the most, and I asked of Mineru, can you devise the means to uprise in the sky these stones.
My words I see not now, but these memories are safe, of the royal family, high in the sky for that future time.
Tablet #11 - The day the land rose

Such wondrous sight I have beholden that it cannot justly be described.
The temple of time I saw, and all the land that held it, risen to the sky, both fearful and majestic. As princess Zelda told me, in her distant future comes a champion to that place, the hope that saves Hyrule.
For that champion be it that I inscribe this great stone.
The kings older sister, Mineru, sends now these stones to the sky, that the champion might read them.

Zelda knows what happens in the present and that Link was heavily damaged by a resurrected Ganondorf so they need a place for Link to recover out of Ganondorf's reach. Some of those structures, like the new Room of Awakening, were made specifically in anticipation of Link. It's also the in-universe explanation for why there isn't much else on the Sky Islands.

Also, was anyone else kind of disappointed by Ganondorf's portrayal here?

The character has never been a super deep or complex villain (even in Wind Waker), but I felt they gave him a menace and gravitas in the other games that had a real weight to it. Stuff like him encountering Young Link in Ocarina Of Time on horseback, the organ, or his failed execution in Twilight Princess. Scenes like that which I remember very clearly. Even his stabbing of Sonia just feels... I don't know, flat, in comparison. He had just a little more character than a cartoonish supervillain in previous games and that wasn't really felt here. The dragon form was cool, I guess.

I think the character suffered generally from being so far removed from the modern day storyline and Link. I would say his general portrayal in Twilight Princess is on the weaker side as well, but even though the overall boss fight was better in TOTK, I'll never forget Ganondorf's death scene, standing up straight with the Master Sword in his chest. Nothing in this game really resonated with me like that, regarding his character.

Partly, yes. I think the Gloom Hands, Phantom Ganondorf and the copycat Zelda including the scene in Skyrule Castle were their attempts to make Ganondorf a stronger presence in the present day story but his portrayal suffers from being mostly relegated to small scenes in Zelda's memories.

I did however like some of the direction in Memory #7 where the camera follows Ganondorf's gaze and his desire for the Sacred Stones.
 
I kind of agree to be honest. The Zonai aren’t really well explained, and not even in the sense of being mysterious and leaving it to the imagination, the game seems almost contradictory about their relationship to Hyrule. They came from the sky, yet most of their ruins are in the Depths (the ones in the sky were explicitly raised from the surface). They had an expansive civilization, but as of the time of Hyrule’s founding, only Rauru and Mineru seem to remain as the last of their kind (and they don’t seem all that anxious about that?). Was there a massive Zonai Empire that predates Hyrule, and if so, why did a Zonai found Hyrule (The Hylians seemed to see them as Sky people/gods rather than already present on the surface so… that doesn’t seem to fit the idea of an older, expansive surface empire that is present in the game?)

BotW is simpler but it’s still more consistent. We know who the Sheikah are, what their general deal is, and can assume Calamity Ganon is the same threat we’ve seen many times to this point.
Agree with both of you completely. TOTK's story and lore is really, really bad.
BOTW's events are barely acknowledged because....reasons?
Everything BOTW established with the Sheikah is dropped because a designer had new toy syndrome with Zonai stuff?

It's all weird and inconsistent.
 
While I found TOTK's story quests more memorable and enjoyable than BOTW's (generally everything with the Sages was well done in this game), I still feel like the BOTW/TOTK duology have the least interesting stories of the 3D Zelda games. The flashback methodology of telling the story really cuts down the player's ability to engage with the narrative in the actual game. I don't think story is the biggest priority in the Zelda series by any means, but it can add a nice flavor to the adventure if you're invested in what's going on. I did really like the epilogue with the Sages, but the actual ending, outside of diving to save Zelda, just felt a bit "well, the game's over!" Lore inconsistencies I don't care about, but story beats tend to be something I reflect on more with 3D Zelda.

Ultimately I've accepted that in terms of story, what I want from Zelda probably isn't in these open world games going forward unless the next one is a huge change up from the formula. TOTK is still an amazing game, but as I've said before, I'm treating it as its own thing rather than wanting it to be like the older games.
 
BOTW's events are barely acknowledged because....reasons?
This isn't really true? Like, at all?
  • In the prologue Zelda directly mentions the Calamity and how it resulted in the desolate state of Hyrule Castle.
  • The people involved in the four regional phenomena all reference the events of BotW and their relationships to Link in some form. One character calls the rock formation above Rito Village "Vah Medoh's" perch. There is even a statue of Sidon and Link in Zora's Domain.
  • Hudson and Rhondson acknowledge Link's role in helping Tarrey Town.
  • The state of the Yiga is a direct consequence of Kohga's defeat in BotW.
  • Everything involving Purah, Robbie and the two Tech labs builds upon things that happened in BotW.
  • Impa as well as Symin at the school of Hateno directly reference the Calamity and the corruption of the Divine Beasts and Guardians.

Sure, there's some inconsistencies with minor characters not recognizing Link and the disappearance of most ancient Sheikah tech is only hinted at by the Skyview Towers. But BotW already showed that the towers and the shrines only appeared once Link activated them. Not everything is explicitly spelled out and we don't get to see how the Hylians disassemble the Guardians. But you'd have to willingly ignore what happened in BotW to not be able to put two and two together.
 
This isn't really true? Like, at all?
  • In the prologue Zelda directly mentions the Calamity and how it resulted in the desolate state of Hyrule Castle.
  • The people involved in the four regional phenomena all reference the events of BotW and their relationships to Link in some form. One character calls the rock formation above Rito Village "Vah Medoh's" perch. There is even a statue of Sidon and Link in Zora's Domain.
  • Hudson and Rhondson acknowledge Link's role in helping Tarrey Town.
  • The state of the Yiga is a direct consequence of Kohga's defeat in BotW.
  • Everything involving Purah, Robbie and the two Tech labs builds upon things that happened in BotW.
  • Impa as well as Symin at the school of Hateno directly reference the Calamity and the corruption of the Divine Beasts and Guardians.

Sure, there's some inconsistencies with minor characters not recognizing Link and the disappearance of most ancient Sheikah tech is only hinted at by the Skyview Towers. But BotW already showed that the towers and the shrines only appeared once Link activated them. Not everything is explicitly spelled out and we don't get to see how the Hylians disassemble the Guardians. But you'd have to willingly ignore what happened in BotW to not be able to put two and two together.
There's connections and minor references, especially in the side quests. But the way TOTK goes about mentioning BOTW's major events (i.e. the Calamity and Ganon) just feels really off for how significant of an event it was.
 
Based on the datamine, there are two types of paraglider farbric not in the game, maybe for future DLC or Amiibo?

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There's connections and minor references, especially in the side quests. But the way TOTK goes about mentioning BOTW's major events (i.e. the Calamity and Ganon) just feels really off for how significant of an event it was.
There are no "major events" in BotW, that's the entire point. It was a major criticism towards BotW that everything of note took place in the past! Neither event referred to as the "Calamity" is something that actually happens in BotW. It's all backdrop, either conveyed to the player through the memories or lore dumps. Most characters in BotW weren't even around during the last Calamity, let alone remember it. It's why the school side quest in TotK makes it a point to show that the kids don't even believe that it happened because during the events of BotW they live so far from it that it doesn't have any effect on their lives.

What happens in BotW is that the Divine Beasts are awake now due to Calamity Ganon growing stronger:
  • Vah Rudania causes eruptions which is why the Gorons can't mine anymore
  • Vah Medo flies over the Hebra Mountains and cannot be approached by the Rito
  • Vah Naboris traverses the desert and threatens to approach Gerudo Town
  • Vah Ruto is chilling

Which is why Link works together with the new champions to free the previous champions and the divine beasts from Ganon's control. All of which is referenced in TotK. The big showdown with Ganon happens in the castle and the Hyrule heartland which are practically uninhabited because they were ravaged during the Calamity 100 years ago and were overrun by Guardians.
 
I think I've found a side quest I can't complete, as I've passed a point of the story...

"Meat for Meat" need to bring some marbled rock roast back to Cooke at the bedrock bistro. I've completed the regional phenomena for this area, can find two caves with regular rock roast but not marbled rock roast. Googled this and everything I can find shows marbled rock roast where I'm looking so presuming I've messed up?
 
I think I've found a side quest I can't complete, as I've passed a point of the story...

"Meat for Meat" need to bring some marbled rock roast back to Cooke at the bedrock bistro. I've completed the regional phenomena for this area, can find two caves with regular rock roast but not marbled rock roast. Googled this and everything I can find shows marbled rock roast where I'm looking so presuming I've messed up?
I am pretty sure I did this quest afterwards as well. Have you tried it with the ones you found?
 
yes, Cooke says they're not good enough 😐😭
I think I just went to the cave close nearby where the mine cart tracks from the restaurant lead to. I guess you as well?
If so, I am out of ideas...but as I said, I did the temple before I explored the region, so I almost certain I did the quest afterwards...
 
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I think I've found a side quest I can't complete, as I've passed a point of the story...

"Meat for Meat" need to bring some marbled rock roast back to Cooke at the bedrock bistro. I've completed the regional phenomena for this area, can find two caves with regular rock roast but not marbled rock roast. Googled this and everything I can find shows marbled rock roast where I'm looking so presuming I've messed up?
According to people on Reddit...

ou'll have to get it out of the West Restaurant Cave and make sure that it isn't attached to anything. I can't confirm this myself though.
 
According to people on Reddit...

ou'll have to get it out of the West Restaurant Cave and make sure that it isn't attached to anything. I can't confirm this myself though.
ahhhh that could be it, I got them all out glued together and gave him a huge mass of them. Not one individual... Will try that in a minute...
 
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Agree with both of you completely. TOTK's story and lore is really, really bad.
BOTW's events are barely acknowledged because....reasons?
Everything BOTW established with the Sheikah is dropped because a designer had new toy syndrome with Zonai stuff?

It's all weird and inconsistent.

None of this is true. What do you mean by "BotW's events"?
 
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Do either BotW or TotK mention or reference anything about male Gerudos being born? Like I know the “every 100 years” thing still exists but do any Gerudos mention anything about male Gerudos besides Ganondorf, even offhandedly?

Because presumably male Gerudos should still be born every once in a while besides Ganondorf, no? I always thought it’d be interesting to have a male Gerudo character, perhaps even resembling Ganondorf a bit, who isn’t evil and maybe helps out Link a bit. There could be an interesting dynamic there, especially since TotK makes it clear Ganondorf himself is probably always just going to be straight up evil in these games cause that’s just who he is with not much depth or nuance otherwise.
 
Both amazed and shocked that they actually gave us a real difficult boss fight this time. The whole sequence really, up till the last part was pretty challenging.
 
Do either BotW or TotK mention or reference anything about male Gerudos being born? Like I know the “every 100 years” thing still exists but do any Gerudos mention anything about male Gerudos besides Ganondorf, even offhandedly?

Because presumably male Gerudos should still be born every once in a while besides Ganondorf, no? I always thought it’d be interesting to have a male Gerudo character, perhaps even resembling Ganondorf a bit, who isn’t evil and maybe helps out Link a bit. There could be an interesting dynamic there, especially since TotK makes it clear Ganondorf himself is probably always just going to be straight up evil in these games cause that’s just who he is with not much depth or nuance otherwise.
I was kind of hoping the previous hero of the calamity would be shown to be a male Gerudo, but he’s indicated to be a Zonai instead (which is also strange given the prior calamity should have taken place sometime between the era of founding when the Zonai were nearly extinct and BotW)
 
I was kind of hoping the previous hero of the calamity would be shown to be a male Gerudo, but he’s indicated to be a Zonai instead (which is also strange given the prior calamity should have taken place sometime between the era of founding when the Zonai were nearly extinct and BotW)
I think its a hybrid Hylian/Zonai given his ears are Hylian.
 
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Just beat the game today. Loved it. This is Nintendo's best Gay Representation; because the Zora arc perfectly captures the feeling of your straight crush introducing you to his girlfriend; who is amazing and you want to be friends, but also, you hate her a little bit

Jokes aside, what's the deal with the Zonai? Are there more explanations in the game I just haven't found yet? All I know is there's only two of them in ye really olde Hyrule, that they come from the sky, and they have magic rocks. At the start of the game I thought uncovering the mysteries of this ancient civilization would be a big part of it; but every time I do a sidequest that promises lore it's just an ancient tablet that's like "hey did you know there was an imprisoning war and it involved sages", like yeah I rode up here on my ghost powered robot I kinda wanted to learn something new.
 
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I was kind of hoping the previous hero of the calamity would be shown to be a male Gerudo, but he’s indicated to be a Zonai instead (which is also strange given the prior calamity should have taken place sometime between the era of founding when the Zonai were nearly extinct and BotW)
Where is that shown?
 


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