Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Spoiler Thread

[Mekanos]

I think there’s still improvements they can make to dungeons but it’s clear they don’t want to design 3 hour puzzle boxes to trap players in them and keep them out of the big open world.

Personally I hope the next game the dungeons are more like the big cave unde Hyrule Castle. A trawl into a dangerous place full of enemies and items, with some light puzzle solving. Just more thematically distinct than being a cave, obviously.

 

[AtomicZach]

Because we have to assume the magma is being pulled from beneath the floor of the depths, from a pathway that's far away from Death Mountain itself, as there's no where in the depths where the magma could be being pulled up. It can't be being pulled up directly beneath the crater of Death Mountain otherwise everything around the Death Mountain area of the depths should have been completely covered in magma, including Gorondia. So at best we would have to assume that the magma is coming from somewhere outside of Hyrule proper, and being channeled directly to Death Mountain, which is hard to believe consider how much magma there is in BOTW.

I'm confused why you're applying so much "this is how the real world works" into a game where I can walk barefoot next to lava with just a helmet.

 

[Mango]

I'm confused why you're applying so much "this is how the real world works" into a game where I can walk barefoot next to lava with just a helmet.

Regardless of how fantastical a setting may be, if it's grounded in some level of internal logic, and then actively goes against that logic, that's bad world-building. TotK is filled with many instances of this where the world they built for it, actively contradicts what BOTW established. Its weird and it upsets me.

Especially considering how I personally considered BOTW to have the best world-building in the whole series. That said it's not a deal breaker, obviously, it's just upsetting.

 

[Cheetah6442]

Regardless of how fantastical a setting may be, if it's grounded in some level of internal logic, and then actively goes against that logic, that's bad world-building. TotK is filled with many instances of this where the world they built for it, actively contradicts what BOTW established. Its weird and it upsets me.

Especially considering how I personally considered BOTW to have the best world-building in the whole series. That said it's not a deal breaker, obviously, it's just upsetting.

Amigo I'm sorry, but I do not see anything that breaks the world building that BOTW established.

 

[AtomicZach]

Regardless of how fantastical a setting may be, if it's grounded in some level of internal logic, and then actively goes against that logic, that's bad world-building. TotK is filled with many instances of this where the world they built for it, actively contradicts what BOTW established. Its weird and it upsets me.

Especially considering how I personally considered BOTW to have the best world-building in the whole series. That said it's not a deal breaker, obviously, it's just upsetting.

Except it doesn't? How does this break logic and is against world-building? TotK actively says what happens with Death Mountain between BoTW and TotK, and unlike others its a part of the Goron main quest.

BOTW the volcano doesn't go that deep. We know this because we see the inside of Death Mountain while in the Divine Beast. It's noted that when Upheaval happens (the moment when the chasms and the sky islands appear), Death Mountain stops being an Active Volcano because that chasm opened up. It's clear that the Magma Chamber in the volcano pools above where the depths are.

 

[Mango]

Except it doesn't? How does this break logic and is against world-building? TotK actively says what happens with Death Mountain between BoTW and TotK, and unlike others its a part of the Goron main quest.

BOTW the volcano doesn't go that deep. We know this because we see the inside of Death Mountain while in the Divine Beast. It's noted that when Upheaval happens (the moment when the chasms and the sky islands appear), Death Mountain stops being an Active Volcano because that chasm opened up. It's clear that the Magma Chamber in the volcano pools above where the depths are.

Yeah there's no issue with the idea that the bottom of the crater broke open, the issue is there's nowhere for the magma to originate from. It's clearly not coming from somewhere else in Hyrule, and it can't come in from out of Hyrule unless it's channeling across/through the ceiling of the depths, which is dumb and weird for a volcano. Meaning the only logical assumption would be that it's supposed to originate from directing below Death Mountain, in the depths where we see a massive pool of magma, but there's no active way shown to us how that magma can go from down there to the crater of Death Mountain. They could have easily fixed this problem if they just segmented the whole death Mountain area of the depths off, like they did for Evintide Island and the Lomei Island, but they didn't.

Also we're talking about the game that depicts the inside of the man-made Akkala Citadel as a naturalistic cave with rock walls and pools of water. Being true to BOTWs world was not their priority with this game.

 

[AtomicZach]

Yeah there's no issue with the idea that the bottom of the crater broke open, the issue is there's nowhere for the magma to originate from. It's clearly not coming from somewhere else in Hyrule, and it can't come in from out of Hyrule unless it's channeling across/through the ceiling of the depths, which is dumb and weird for a volcano. Meaning the only logical assumption would be that it's supposed to originate from directing below Death Mountain, in the depths where we see a massive pool of magma, but there's no active way shown to us how that magma can go from down there to the crater of Death Mountain. They could have easily fixed this problem if they just segmented the whole death Mountain area of the depths off, like they did for Evintide Island and the Lomei Island, but they didn't.

Also we're talking about the game that depicts the inside of the man-made Akkala Citadel as a naturalistic cave with rock walls and pools of water. Being true to BOTWs world was not their priority with this game.

...I had a big discussion on how this could scientifically work (because it actually surprisingly can) but you'd just nickle and dime my argument to pieces in order to be right, which you really seem to want to be. And in addition, because I don't think anyone but the most pedantic of gamers actually care about "scientific accuracy" in a game where, once again, I can walk around lava wearing nothing but a helmet and be fine.

I'm just confused by your insistence that the developers hate this world they built because...they introduced caves in areas that didn't have them before? Like, there could be many reasons why that cave is now a cave with rock walls and pools of water. It was 100 years after it was destroyed.

Like, it feels like you are just grasping for anything to help you hate this game more. Like, you already have a variety of reasons to not like the game, but now you just feel like someone desperate to hate every aspect of the game and hate every change the developers did, who now apparently hate the BOTW world because...they put a cave somewhere where it doesn't make 100% logistical sense?

 

[Mango]

@xaszatm

I mean I basically dropped the topic on Friday, I'm not sure why you brought it back up. I had figured you got too frustrated with me and didn't want to continue, which makes sense, as I know that I was and am being pedantic and picky.

I don't think the devs hate the world or whatever you said, I just think they could've done a better job is all. That's it. I don't hate the game either, it just feels like a series of constant missed opportunities, but that's just my opinion.

I don't wish to discuss this further, as I don't want to drive this thread any further into debating the origin of Death Mountains lava.

 

[Kevin360]

Watching the credits roll. Can finally be in this thread, a month, and 115 hours of the game later.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

The more I think about my time with the game, the less I like the Depths. Feels like they took everything that made Breath of the Wild's exploration so fun and made sure to do something different, and the end result was a lot less satisfying, at least for me.

• One thing I absolutely loved about Hyrule was the topography. It was so easy to find unique landmarks that you wanted to check out, without ever having to consult a waypoint or the map. The only time I ever had that experience in the Depths was with the big ass Bionis looking statue in Hebra. A lot more blind exploration, which is a lot of fun in the first few hours but grows old pretty quickly once the reality sets in that there just isn't much variety in the Depths when it comes to visual identity and topography.
• The rewards were also very weak, both intrinsically and extrinsically. Breath of the Wild did a great job balancing both; rewards were easily identifiable from a vantage point (shrines, stables, etc.), giving you the motivation to set out somewhere, but then the actual journey to that destination was where the fun was really at. Making a plan as to how you're gonna reach said destination, following through with that plan, and dealing with any surprises or distractions along the way made for a compelling micro adventure all by itself. Extrinsic motivation paired with intrinsic enjoyment is a killer gameplay loop, and Breath of the Wild had that in spades. Didn't really translate to the Depths though; the rewards are worse, they aren't easily identifiable without consulting a map, and you don't really ever make that aforementioned plan because, like I said before, the exploration is mostly blind. Felt like I was just stumbling from lightroot to lightroot, checking the map for any easily identifiable structures once I lit each area. Never got the same satisfaction from making my way to the next destination, just felt like I was checking boxes. And at that point, it plays like your bog standard open world game, which didn't grab me at all.
• The lack of variety in general is really disappointing. Outside of Death Mountain, everywhere looks pretty much identical, so it all blends together without ever really standing out. The common landmarks can be boiled down to lightroots, enemy camps, Yiga camps, factories, mines, and groves, and I didn't find a single one of them compelling given how similarly they always play out, and the rewards don't make up for that.
• Best part of the depths is the ability to fight the 4 main bosses again. I'll probably fight Colgera multiple times just for the hell of it.

Was also disappointed with the Sky, but that was more due to the expectations the prerelease marketing set. Outside of the Great Sky Island and the other island chains used in the main quests, most islands are essentially just open air shrines. Which is fine, they're fun to complete, but given how heavily the marketed the Sky as a defining gimmick it's hard to not be disappointed in the execution. Felt like a big missed opportunity, I would've gladly traded out the Depths in their entirety for a more compelling Sky layer.

Hyrule is definitely my favorite layer of the three, and I like pretty much all of the additions and changes they made, but it's ultimately the same map that I already spent over 150 hours exploring in Breath of the Wild. And while the new mechanics result in a completely new approach to said map, it just doesn't live up to the magic of the first game. Which is fine, I don't think they could've done anything to Hyrule in particular for it to surpass it's first iteration, it's just the reality of reusing the same map again. I just wish the two new layers had more to offer to help make up for that inevitable deficit they were gonna face, and sadly neither the Depths or the Sky made up that difference for me.

On a more minor note, I absolutely love how caves and wells change the topography of Hyrule, but they also grew stale pretty quickly. The reward for "completing" a cave is incredibly lame (Bubbul gems are even worse than Korok seeds, somehow), so unless I had a specific reason to explore a particular cave or well, I lost motivation pretty quickly, mostly due to how similar they all are. A huge improvement they could've made is different resources in each cave; I had like 80+ glowing mushrooms by the end of the game, compared to 5 or less of pretty much every other type. Just knowing that there might be a new resource for me to find would go a long way. More distinct visuals between each cave/well would've also helped a lot, but that isn't as big of a deal.

Its funny, I think I love the depths because they are so uniform and less reliant on the same visual information as Hyrule in Breath of the Wild.

Basically the Depths have forced me to really rely on cartography more than I ever had in BotW. Utilizing the information I know about the world above and where the shrines are as well as the major landmarks to guide my direction in the dark.

Its just such a different experience that I appreciate. A bit like how note taking and map making were necessary to get around in NES LOZ.

 

[Rareware]

Has anyone tried fighting Ganondorf and gotten through the Army of Darkness without completing any dungeons? I’m curious if doing so means Link would have to fight all 5 Dungeon bosses before taking on Ganondorf since you wouldn’t have your companions there to intervene. And if so, I wonder if it’s still possible to trigger that even with the dungeons completed if you were to dismiss your companions?

 

[Mekanos]

Has anyone tried fighting Ganondorf and gotten through the Army of Darkness without completing any dungeons? I’m curious if doing so means Link would have to fight all 5 Dungeon bosses before taking on Ganondorf since you wouldn’t have your companions there to intervene. And if so, I wonder if it’s still possible to trigger that even with the dungeons completed if you were to dismiss your companions?

Yes, that is correct

Any dungeons you haven’t beat you have to fight the boss

 

[Rexskel]

Has anyone tried fighting Ganondorf and gotten through the Army of Darkness without completing any dungeons? I’m curious if doing so means Link would have to fight all 5 Dungeon bosses before taking on Ganondorf since you wouldn’t have your companions there to intervene. And if so, I wonder if it’s still possible to trigger that even with the dungeons completed if you were to dismiss your companions?

I had only done the Wind Temple when I first tried it, and I only made it to the start of the boss rush with Marbled Gohma before getting killed and stopping my early attempt. But from what I saw, after the army fight, you battle all the temple bosses, even the Seized Construct on foot, and the Phantom Ganon fight in Hyrule Castle before the final boss with Ganondorf.

 

[Rareware]

Yes, that is correct

Any dungeons you haven’t beat you have to fight the boss

I had only done the Wind Temple when I first tried it, and I only made it to the start of the boss rush with Marbled Gohma before getting killed and stopping my early attempt. But from what I saw, after the army fight, you battle all the temple bosses, even the Seized Construct on foot, and the Phantom Ganon fight in Hyrule Castle before the final boss with Ganondorf.

Wow Phantom Ganon as well? Damn. That’s an insane level of challenge. I really wish there was a way to do it all even having beat the dungeons. I think I will eventually go in having dismissed the companions just to see if it’ll work.

My personal fight with Ganondorf was an absolutely push over. Went in at 160 hours played, I had the Fierce Deity set maxed out and the Master Sword fused with a Gohma Heart. The fight with him before the final phase was over in probably 5 minutes. I was doing a ridiculous amount of damage to him lmao

 

[Mekanos]

Fighting the Seized Construct on foot would be pretty wild. Can you rematch it in the Depths like the other dungeon bosses?

 

[Rareware]

I just finished my 148th Shrine. Getting so close to finding and completing them all, though admittedly they’re getting tougher to discover now. Just proud of myself that I’ve managed to do it all so far without any guides or anything. Just a little ways more to go!

 

[Phendrift]

Flux Constructs, Froxes and Gleeoks are so much better than Talus’ and Hinox I almost wish we got even more overworld bosses

But I can’t really complain much. The boss variety in this game is awesome, especially including the dungeon bosses. Only complaint I could come up with is that TOTK should’ve added another surface boss in addition to Gleeoks (sky already has Flux Constructs and Depths have everything + Froxes and dungeon boss rematches.)

Gleeoks feel like massive, almost endgame challenges while Talus’ and Hinox are still the most common overworld bosses you’ll find on the surface. One more mid-tier boss as plentiful as Talus and Hinox (replacing a few of those if need be) would’ve helped with balance between old and new in that area.

Also on the subject of bosses, considering TOTK integrated lots of BotW’s DLC improvements into its base game, I’m surprised we didn’t get the superboss variants of Molduga and Igneo Talus - Molduking and Igneo Talus Titan - from the Champions Ballad.

 

[Thunder84]

Its funny, I think I love the depths because they are so uniform and less reliant on the same visual information as Hyrule in Breath of the Wild.

Basically the Depths have forced me to really rely on cartography more than I ever had in BotW. Utilizing the information I know about the world above and where the shrines are as well as the major landmarks to guide my direction in the dark.

Its just such a different experience that I appreciate. A bit like how note taking and map making were necessary to get around in NES LOZ.

I get where you’re coming from, and the moment when that aspect clicked was definitely really cool. I just don’t think it has the same legs as the visual exploration that Breath of the Wild provided. Got very samey rather quickly, as my approach to exploration pretty much never changed.

 

[xghost777]

After 110+ hours of gameplay, I beat Zelda and can finally join this thread! I’ll write up some thoughts later, but I was happy to roll credits tonight. My completion rate was 55%. I did every shrine and light root and all of the side content I wanted.

 

[Stilt Village]

I just did the Spirit Temple, and I'm curious how Mineru was supposed to deal with the silver enemies during the mech tutorial section. The stuff they provided to attach to the arms doesn't do nearly enough damage, and it made most of the combat encounters much harder with the mech than they would have been without, especially when I was still trying to learn how to even control the thing. Would be a weird oversight not to plan for this though since you're obviously supposed to do this one last, and I even felt very underprepared for most of it. It seemed like I was supposed to have areas already lit up and have learned a lot of weird obtuse things about how Zonai Devices work that I never did to get through the Construct Factory. I have 20+ hearts and 2 wheels of stamina but apparently I still hadn't played the game enough.

 

[xghost777]

I just did the Spirit Temple, and I'm curious how Mineru was supposed to deal with the silver enemies during the mech tutorial section. The stuff they provided to attach to the arms doesn't do nearly enough damage, and it made most of the combat encounters much harder with the mech than they would have been without, especially when I was still trying to learn how to even control the thing. Would be a weird oversight not to plan for this though since you're obviously supposed to do this one last, and I even felt very underprepared for most of it. It seemed like I was supposed to have areas already lit up and have learned a lot of weird obtuse things about how Zonai Devices work that I never did to get through the Construct Factory. I have 20+ hearts and 2 wheels of stamina but apparently I still hadn't played the game enough.

That’s a question I have still. I wasn’t sure what was going on with that sequence. It feels like it is supposed to be empowering, you built a giant robot(!), but then you can deal basically no damage to anything. My guess is I was roughly 105-110 hours in so parts of the world leveled up while other parts of the sequence didn’t? I had to hop off to deal real damage.

 

[Kevin360]

I just did the Spirit Temple, and I'm curious how Mineru was supposed to deal with the silver enemies during the mech tutorial section. The stuff they provided to attach to the arms doesn't do nearly enough damage, and it made most of the combat encounters much harder with the mech than they would have been without, especially when I was still trying to learn how to even control the thing. Would be a weird oversight not to plan for this though since you're obviously supposed to do this one last, and I even felt very underprepared for most of it. It seemed like I was supposed to have areas already lit up and have learned a lot of weird obtuse things about how Zonai Devices work that I never did to get through the Construct Factory. I have 20+ hearts and 2 wheels of stamina but apparently I still hadn't played the game enough.

That’s a question I have still. I wasn’t sure what was going on with that sequence. It feels like it is supposed to be empowering, you built a giant robot(!), but then you can deal basically no damage to anything. My guess is I was roughly 105-110 hours in so parts of the world leveled up while other parts of the sequence didn’t? I had to hop off to deal real damage.

Same experience here. The whole sequence was super bewildering to me.

 

[WestEgg]

Did we ever get any indication who the fist pumping bear looking statue dudes are in the depths? They don’t appear to be Zonai or Hylian.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I get where you’re coming from, and the moment when that aspect clicked was definitely really cool. I just don’t think it has the same legs as the visual exploration that Breath of the Wild provided. Got very samey rather quickly, as my approach to exploration pretty much never changed.

I can get behind that.

I can't deny though that I get a bit of a rush when I find a treasure in the depths before the maps on the sky tell me where they are because I sus out where they are on the map.

But I can't be down there for long or else the sameness really gets to me. I guess its good that its just a alternative area to the surface in that way.

 

[Weebos]

Did we ever get any indication who the fist pumping bear looking statue dudes are in the depths? They don’t appear to be Zonai or Hylian.

I didn't see anything about it ingame, but when I first saw them I thought we might be getting Mogmas in the depths.

 

[HyahHaHa]

Been chewing on that ending since beating it yesterday and I think I'm going to go to my grave convinced that King Rauru and Queen Sonia knew exactly what was going on and what needed to be done- down to the last detail. They knew they could change Zelda back but they also knew that her making that choice was the only way to beat Ganondorf; the only way to make sure that the master sword would be strong enough. Hell I'm convinced that Rauru could have fixed Link's arm from the beginning but needed Link to have access to those powers in order for the plan to work- to defeat Ganondorf and to save Zelda. Even if it's not true I still believe it lol.

 

[Stilt Village]

That’s a question I have still. I wasn’t sure what was going on with that sequence. It feels like it is supposed to be empowering, you built a giant robot(!), but then you can deal basically no damage to anything. My guess is I was roughly 105-110 hours in so parts of the world leveled up while other parts of the sequence didn’t? I had to hop off to deal real damage.

The thing is, not all enemies level up, some are set. So why wouldn't they just make all of those enemies a set level that Mineru can deal with? The Blue Hinox part worked fine, that one actually had an appropriate amount of health.

I wonder if attaching monster horns to the arms would have helped, but I feel like most players would be doing this part late enough that silver enemies would be there, so why didn't they give you stronger materials to attach to the mech to begin with, or at least mention you could use your own stuff for it? I found most of the Spirit Temple sequence confusing, but for this part I'm not sure what I could have missed, and it's extra strange because it's obviously meant as a tutorial.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

I didn't see anything about it ingame, but when I first saw them I thought we might be getting Mogmas in the depths.

Buff Mogmas are my headcanon now

 

[Rareware]

EDIT: This was intended for the timeline discussion thread.

 

[Warlord]

Finished the game yesterday evening. 60h, a little over 60 shrines, all overworld map unlocked and what I think is a good portion of the depths lightroot unlocked. time to give my thoughts.

I didn't do any sidequests, so I'm not sure wheter some things are explained there.
Short version: I liked it, I think it's better than BOTW, but I can't say I'm not somewhat dissapointed

Longer version :


- Story: I liked it, it was fine. However, they don't really do a good job at explaining most of the new stuff (and now that I think about it, they don't explain it at all)

• why does Rauru's arm have all these abilities. Was he always able to use them?
• How come no one knew about the Sky Islands and the Depths until now. the Sky Islands are preety big and visible. DId no one bother to just look up until now? What about the Water temple being the source of the water in Zora's domain? do you mean all of it? And about the depths? I find it impossible that these big holes in the ground just suddently opened all over Hyrule, people started exploring, yiga started building small fortresses and bringing up stuff in what? A week? Or did they appear way before that?
• the entire continuity regarding the light dragon, master Sword, glyphs etc. No one notuìiced them until now? in the Thousands of years since the battle against Ganondorf?
• No explanation regarding what happened to Shrines, Divine beasts and guardians. they just dissapeared.

Story just feels like they needed to have one, but didn't want to bother having it make sense. but again, it was fine

- Exploration is still great and they improved it immensly with all the ways you can explore the world.

- Overworld: major source of dissapointement here. Sky Islands where just a mini-collection of shrine puzzles. Unless you wanted to get more hearts, I didn't find any reason to explore them just to do the latest "bring this crystal from A to B" Shrine quest.

Overworld is basically the same with some changes. It's still interesting to explore thanks to the addition of caves and wells, but these started looking samey very quickly. Your experience with the rest of the world will depend on how much you explored it in BOTW. If you're like me and basically memorized all locations, there no suprise to be found anywhere, which means half the enjoyment that comes with exploration is gone.

Depths: Only reason why you should explore this is for Zonaite. There are no interesting locations, no diversity in how it looks based on where you are, nothing. Mind you,I haven't done the Koga questline (found him and the autobuild two days before the final fight) so I'm not sure if this changes, but I'm not expecting much.

- New Abilities:

• Ultrahand is genius. There is no other way of describing it. it makes everything so much easier and was implemented so well.
• Ascend was underutilized, to the point that I forgot it existed at one point. You'll barely use it in the overworld because there almost no flat surfaces directly above you, in the underworld the ceiling is out of range and in the sky island it's the same as the overworld, except even less.
• Rewind is fine. not much reason to use it though outside of Shrine puzzles and the falling rocks
• autobuild. Good extra ability, not much else to say.
• Skydiving is cool no matter how many times I do it. Best moment was Skydiving in a Chasm alongside a Dragon

- Combat was bad in BOTW, it's still bad here. I can't find anything positive about it. the attacks suck, the dodging sucks, the camera sucks, the enemies going limp at the end of every attack chain (or flying away after 2 hits of the claymore) sucks. There is nothing I can like here. And I'm sure someone will say "well, you need to use everything the game gives you to make it exciting"I want to kill what's in front of me asap, why would I want to make the fights last even a second longer? And I haven't even brought up the damage enemies do. Regarding weapon durability, I don't mind it, but I wouldn't care if it's gone.

- Dungeons are fine. they are still well below other dungeons in the series, but they are fine here compared to the BOTW ones
The lead up to the dungeons are good except story wise, with the Rito one being the worst. Honestly, I just wish they were longer.
I hated how they had the same story beats and ended the same way however. The new Sages hear something, decide to ignore it, hear it again and there's a voice telling them to follow them. Then when the boss is defeated they play the same cutscene, with different characters, old sages describe the imprisoning war the same exact way, then zelda goes to their temple, sages say the destiny of their people became clear (was it not obvious immediately when they barely managed to imprison Ganondorf), new sages say something that's supposed to be self reflecting but is just boring as hell, then accept it and give you the power. It's the same cutscene over and over again. I guess they wanted to give the same impression regardless of the order in which you do the dungeons, but you don't need to do the same cuscenes over and over again for that. Thank goodness the Spirit temple one was different.

- The bosses at the end where very cool except the water-temple one because it's just pitifully easy. no challenge at all. Ice centipede one (can't remember the name)is probably my favourite. It's just the coolest. they are not as good as many other bosses in the series, but they're still very good

- Shrines are slightly better than the ones in botw. the quality still ranges from good to meh for the ones I've done.

The final part was done incredibly well, from the lead-up, to the fight with Ganondorf, to the fight against the Darkness Dragon, to Skydiving to reach Zelda (great callback to the beginning of the game). Really, really good

Some other minor stuff
- rewards for anything you do are still bad outside of armors. if it's rupees, it's a tiny ammount. if it's weapons, they fused something good to a wodden stick, which means you can't have it. Gems are the only good rewards
-Koroks are somehow worse, and all they had to do was make alot of them about taking one from A to B.

• Screw the hudson signpost guy. completely worthless. And repetitive.
• Arrows. Why can't I craft them? Why do I still need to go to a shop to get them?
• The fact that the Zonai Gliders have a time limit. Why? Let me fly all across Hyrule.

Now, despite all my complaining, I did like what I played. I do think It's one of the best games on Switch. But it's not my favourite, not even when it comes to BOTW- styled openwords. Those games just do the things I care about much better, which is also the things TOTK barely/hasn't improved improved. I guess I like games that are less sandboxy and more focused.
I'm still going to play it for a while and maybe during that time my opinion will change, but for now I'm left a bit dissapointed with what I played. I hope they make another big overhaul to the series staples and fix the parts I don't like.

If BOTW was an 8/10 for me after six years,TOTK is a 8.5-9 (leaning more towards a 9).

 

[soundchaser]

The game explains almost all of your story issues pretty clearly: the Sky Islands, geoglyphs, holes to the Depths, etc. didn't show up until after the Upheaval. The Sheikah tech stopped working after Calamity Ganon was vanquished and was repurposed into the Sky Towers, which is again explained in-game. (I believe in Purah's journal.)

 

[Vaenyr]

The game explains almost all of your story issues pretty clearly: the Sky Islands, geoglyphs, holes to the Depths, etc. didn't show up until after the Upheaval. The Sheikah tech stopped working after Calamity Ganon was vanquished and was repurposed into the Sky Towers, which is again explained in-game. (I believe in Purah's journal.)

Technically, yeah, it's explained. Lorewise it's kinda disappointing that the answer for most of those questions is just "The Upheaval did it", without going further in depth. Feels kinda handwave-y to be honest.

 

[Jbone916]

I will not tolerate signpost guy slander!

 

[Tye]

The Sheikah tech stopped working after Calamity Ganon was vanquished and was repurposed into the Sky Towers, which is again explained in-game. (I believe in Purah's journal.)

Wait, where exactly is this said?? I definitely found all four volumes of Purah’s diary and that wasn’t said in any of those. I’ve been wondering if the game would acknowledge the absence of all the ancient Sheikah tech but I haven’t seen any mention of that yet myself, even after putting 165+ hours into the game and beating it.

 

[Horror Kid]

Addison!
Good addition!

(much better than escort-Koroks)

 

[Irene]

Flux Constructs, Froxes and Gleeoks are so much better than Talus’ and Hinox I almost wish we got even more overworld bosses

But I can’t really complain much. The boss variety in this game is awesome, especially including the dungeon bosses. Only complaint I could come up with is that TOTK should’ve added another surface boss in addition to Gleeoks (sky already has Flux Constructs and Depths have everything + Froxes and dungeon boss rematches.)

Gleeoks feel like massive, almost endgame challenges while Talus’ and Hinox are still the most common overworld bosses you’ll find on the surface. One more mid-tier boss as plentiful as Talus and Hinox (replacing a few of those if need be) would’ve helped with balance between old and new in that area.

Also on the subject of bosses, considering TOTK integrated lots of BotW’s DLC improvements into its base game, I’m surprised we didn’t get the superboss variants of Molduga and Igneo Talus - Molduking and Igneo Talus Titan - from the Champions Ballad.

Overworld bosses were great, I want to also specially give recognition to Battle Taluses. Amazing stuff, especially early game, when they're a true challenge. Trying to shoot them down and then Ascend through the platform never got old. Neither did setting up cannon traps that blasted all Bokoblins into high heaven.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Addison!
Good addition!

(much better than escort-Koroks)

You mean rocket-Koroks?

 

[Yavga]

I just completed the game, YAAAAAAAAY. WHAT AN EXPERIENCE. What a great experience it was, I loved every single minute of my 130hrs playthrough so far. Now it's time to experiment around with building weird contraptions.

Some things in retrospective:
I loved the statues you could make in Tarrey Town from the exact pose the monsters were in, one of my most favorite features by far. I secretly had hoped it would go beyond monsters and something more similar like Wind Waker with the descriptions and all but this is just fine as well for what it is.

Building, exploring, combat, music - all stellar, Story... Not so much. Initially the story started off very mysterious and eerie but it kinda fell flat on its back for me really quick after. There's a lot of eye candy to be had but the way it is presented just doesn't stir me, and neither did the ending. I was like... "This was supposed to be the big bad that tormented the world?" Can Ganondorf just shut up for a minute? I think I really like him better when he's silent and not narrating every move he makes.

And now I feel like I understand the "it's a great game, but not a good Zelda game" crowd somewhat more as well, Somewhat, because a lot of things also made this take grander which makes it stand tall and proud, here's hoping they can both live at the same time.

It's worth nothing but I would give the game a 9/10 myself where it's the best game AFTER Ocarina of Time still. As a total package I think Ocarina of Time still left more of an impression on me then Tears of the Kingdom did, OoT also gave me more connection to the world itself so I am slightly bummed that the open-world format is the way they will go but I hope they can prove me different.

Bottom line: Really, really, really great game. Rare experience. I am glad I was there to experience it and I am really interested in the future of the Zelda series but I hope they will still respect where they came from and throw people a bone every now and then, whatever way they may be able to do that.

I have so much more feelings and thoughts but I will keep it brief for now. Thanks for reading

 

[Heron]

It's somehow been over a month since I started it, maybe it's time to start laying out some of how I felt about it. Is it an acceptable time for criticism yet without feeling like I'm stomping on other people's fun? Gotta be, right?

To boil it all down to one overriding thought, while the game was simply brilliant to play on a moment-to-moment basis, I just couldn't get over how utterly safe it was. It was simply BotW 2 in a way I never would have expected when it was announced. First of all there was the shock that it would reuse the same map, but even after that faded (long before release day) I was then at least expecting some kind of Majora's Mask-esque structural twist to justify that map reuse, but they really, really did just do BotW all over again with the major addition of an insanely brilliant building mode replacing most of the previous abilities.

I mean, the structure of the game is the exact same, and it becomes fully apparent within like four hours. There's a contained tutorial area in which you get your abilities, learn how shrines work, and the general story is established. This story set-up is remarkably similar to BotW's - in that you are to help a dead king (Rhoam/Rauru) fight Ganon/Ganondorf and his evil miasma (malice/gloom) while Zelda does something out of harms way to seal the evil. After this you then you go to the same overworld as BotW, where you meet Impa who tells you to search for memories/tears (which is where most of the plot cutscenes will be, as nothing really happens in the present) and another character who tells you to seek out the four major villages, and solve problems leading to a dungeon there, where you will get an special ability based off of the champions of one of the four main races as a prize. So off you go in one direction, getting distracted and pulled here and there by fun things to do / see, until eventually you've recruited four champions (wait, five in TotK!!!) and you're ready to fight the big bad.

It's... the exact same game experience. I really couldn't believe that. I could never have predicted that. I kept waiting for the shake-up, the big idea. But ultrahand is the big idea. The genesis of the game is truly "What if BotW... Nuts and Bolts?" And what's more, all of the issues I had with BotW that I was looking forward to seeing how Nintendo's genius designers solved just... aren't addressed at all. It's like they were simply afraid to change too much when BotW was such a mega-hit. Safe. Here's just a short list of some of the things I was thinking about or looking forward to pre-launch.

• How can they make a story that progresses linearly in the present while retaining freedom to do whatever you want, whenever? Well, there's no answer here. They didn't even try.
• How will they improve combat? No answers. Same limited weapon types, same animations, same issues with enemies rag-dolling... just the exact same systems. Not even a new weapon category. This was one of the things that most made the game feel like a retread, and I can't believe more wasn't done here in 6 years of development.
• How can they make the master sword more useful / satisfying given its prominence in the story? No answer. Still rubbish.
• How can they make the world feel like there's more enemy diversity? Okay, you have constructs in the sky islands and horriblins and like-likes in caves. But on the overworld I felt like I fought proportionally more bokoblins and moblins here than I ever did in BotW. The basic mooks really should have been replaced with new enemies - this was one of my biggest pet peeves with content reuse.
• How can some of the frustration with the otherwise necessary item degredation system be solved? Well, they came up with Fusion, but it's finicky and while super fun to experiment with at first, by the end of the game it is such a chore to have to fuse a bunch of new weapons before fighting any silver enemy. I was all for weapons breaking in BotW but by the end of TotK I felt like my opinion had shifted.
• How can they make horses more useful? No answer.
• How can they make eating food more balanced? No answer.
• How can they reduce the damage-spongey-ness of combat? Even with fusion, there's no answer. Feels spongy-er than ever. Silver enemies are not worth the trouble.
• How can they make the climbing / glider combo less powerful so that topography actually matters? Well, they tackle this with the sky islands, which are linear experiences specifically designed around the climbing/glider - and are brilliant and the best part of the game as a result. That's a big win. And in the depths the scale of the terrain, which is immense, does the job. So they get a strong grade on this one. On the other hand, Skyview towers make much of the overworld incredibly easy to just skip. It feels like the actual lay of the land on the overworld means less than ever. I guess they though "You've already seen it anyway".
• How can they restore the same feeling of exploration as BotW had in the same world? I guess their answer here was the depths, which superficially feels just like travelling from shrine to shrine in BotW while tracking lightroots in the dark distance. It is initially stunning and brilliant, and 100% satisfies that itch for new content, new exploration. It absolutely does. But once you realize it's an inverted heightmap of the overworld and that there is very little unique content down there it starts to almost feel like cheap auto-generated content. I can't imagine ever wanting to activate all those lightroots again. Put it this way - if the depths weren't an auxillary map, but the actual main map, we'd all agree they make for a terrible game, right? So... doesn't that indicate that it's a pretty poor area? Like, that initial burst of shock and awe that you feel when discovering there's a massive, second map... does that really justify the whole area, the tedium of it? Honestly those first few hours down there are so incredible that maybe it does, but by the end it is very very dull indeed.
• How can they improve the story presentation? No answers. Some of the custcenes are significantly worse than BotW - with the repeated post-dungeon scenes with the new Champions the worst offenders. It feels like half the cutscenes in this game are a character somehow taking 5 minutes to say "I'll fight with you." Zelda is still unacceptably poorly directed (in English, anyway) to the point where it's impossible to care about what happens to her.
• How can they make traditional Zelda dungeons when you already have all key abilities? No answer. The dungeons are just like divine beasts in concept but without the cool "control the beast's orientation" gimmick that made those so cool. The dungeons here are weak.

Look, the game is good. I could talk about the absolute brilliance of the sky islands, the genius of ultrahand, the amount of brilliant shrine puzzles that were really surprisingly challenging, the awesome pre-dungeon sections etc. I really did love playing the game. But I also put it down halfway through to play something else because I was bored with the structure of it all and had no desire to see how the lame story finished.

And if you'd told me that would be the case with the sequel to my favourite game ever, I just never would have believed you. I firmly believe that TotK is one of the greatest video games ever made, in a vacuum. But for me, given what I expected as a sequel and given the development time, it's also somehow one of the most disappointing.

 

[Mekanos]

I get that in many regards TOTK is a “safe” sequel (though I would argue there wasn’t a lot of “safety” in regards to expanding and evolving the complex physics system on top of crafting an immense vehicle building mechanic), but you were never gonna get a Majora’s Mask-esque game like this. MM was a side project developed in a year. This is probably Nintendo’s most expensive game ever made (pretty sure it has the biggest staff at least). The realities of development just meant upturning BOTW and doing something crazy different wasn’t feasible, and I say this having MM as one of my all time favorite games.

Hopefully the next game they are willing to do different things with the map and story but I expect it to still feel similar overall to BOTW/TOTK.

I also don’t agree that the Depths is bad because it wouldn’t work as its own game. It’s designed as a companion piece to the main map.

 

[Deleted member 2]

People aren’t obligated to show nothing but positivity.

They're criticizing them for being nothing but excessively negative. Not sure where you got the idea they're asking for nothing but positivity.

 

[Deleted member 2]

It's somehow been over a month since I started it, maybe it's time to start laying out some of how I felt about it. Is it an acceptable time for criticism yet without feeling like I'm stomping on other people's fun? Gotta be, right?

To boil it all down to one overriding thought, while the game was simply brilliant to play on a moment-to-moment basis, I just couldn't get over how utterly safe it was. It was simply BotW 2 in a way I never would have expected when it was announced. First of all there was the shock that it would reuse the same map, but even after that faded (long before release day) I was then at least expecting some kind of Majora's Mask-esque structural twist to justify that map reuse, but they really, really did just do BotW all over again with the major addition of an insanely brilliant building mode replacing most of the previous abilities.

I mean, the structure of the game is the exact same, and it becomes fully apparent within like four hours. There's a contained tutorial area in which you get your abilities, learn how shrines work, and the general story is established. This story set-up is remarkably similar to BotW's - in that you are to help a dead king (Rhoam/Rauru) fight Ganon/Ganondorf and his evil miasma (malice/gloom) while Zelda does something out of harms way to seal the evil. After this you then you go to the same overworld as BotW, where you meet Impa who tells you to search for memories/tears (which is where most of the plot cutscenes will be, as nothing really happens in the present) and another character who tells you to seek out the four major villages, and solve problems leading to a dungeon there, where you will get an special ability based off of the champions of one of the four main races as a prize. So off you go in one direction, getting distracted and pulled here and there by fun things to do / see, until eventually you've recruited four champions (wait, five in TotK!!!) and you're ready to fight the big bad.

It's... the exact same game experience. I really couldn't believe that. I could never have predicted that. I kept waiting for the shake-up, the big idea. But ultrahand is the big idea. The genesis of the game is truly "What if BotW... Nuts and Bolts?" And what's more, all of the issues I had with BotW that I was looking forward to seeing how Nintendo's genius designers solved just... aren't addressed at all. It's like they were simply afraid to change too much when BotW was such a mega-hit. Safe. Here's just a short list of some of the things I was thinking about or looking forward to pre-launch.

• How can they make a story that progresses linearly in the present while retaining freedom to do whatever you want, whenever? Well, there's no answer here. They didn't even try.
• How will they improve combat? No answers. Same limited weapon types, same animations, same issues with enemies rag-dolling... just the exact same systems. Not even a new weapon category. This was one of the things that most made the game feel like a retread, and I can't believe more wasn't done here in 6 years of development.
• How can they make the master sword more useful / satisfying given its prominence in the story? No answer. Still rubbish.
• How can they make the world feel like there's more enemy diversity? Okay, you have constructs in the sky islands and horriblins and like-likes in caves. But on the overworld I felt like I fought proportionally more bokoblins and moblins here than I ever did in BotW. The basic mooks really should have been replaced with new enemies - this was one of my biggest pet peeves with content reuse.
• How can some of the frustration with the otherwise necessary item degredation system be solved? Well, they came up with Fusion, but it's finicky and while super fun to experiment with at first, by the end of the game it is such a chore to have to fuse a bunch of new weapons before fighting any silver enemy. I was all for weapons breaking in BotW but by the end of TotK I felt like my opinion had shifted.
• How can they make horses more useful? No answer.
• How can they make eating food more balanced? No answer.
• How can they reduce the damage-spongey-ness of combat? Even with fusion, there's no answer. Feels spongy-er than ever. Silver enemies are not worth the trouble.
• How can they make the climbing / glider combo less powerful so that topography actually matters? Well, they tackle this with the sky islands, which are linear experiences specifically designed around the climbing/glider - and are brilliant and the best part of the game as a result. That's a big win. And in the depths the scale of the terrain, which is immense, does the job. So they get a strong grade on this one. On the other hand, Skyview towers make much of the overworld incredibly easy to just skip. It feels like the actual lay of the land on the overworld means less than ever. I guess they though "You've already seen it anyway".
• How can they restore the same feeling of exploration as BotW had in the same world? I guess their answer here was the depths, which superficially feels just like travelling from shrine to shrine in BotW while tracking lightroots in the dark distance. It is initially stunning and brilliant, and 100% satisfies that itch for new content, new exploration. It absolutely does. But once you realize it's an inverted heightmap of the overworld and that there is very little unique content down there it starts to almost feel like cheap auto-generated content. I can't imagine ever wanting to activate all those lightroots again. Put it this way - if the depths weren't an auxillary map, but the actual main map, we'd all agree they make for a terrible game, right? So... doesn't that indicate that it's a pretty poor area? Like, that initial burst of shock and awe that you feel when discovering there's a massive, second map... does that really justify the whole area, the tedium of it? Honestly those first few hours down there are so incredible that maybe it does, but by the end it is very very dull indeed.
• How can they improve the story presentation? No answers. Some of the custcenes are significantly worse than BotW - with the repeated post-dungeon scenes with the new Champions the worst offenders. It feels like half the cutscenes in this game are a character somehow taking 5 minutes to say "I'll fight with you." Zelda is still unacceptably poorly directed (in English, anyway) to the point where it's impossible to care about what happens to her.
• How can they make traditional Zelda dungeons when you already have all key abilities? No answer. The dungeons are just like divine beasts in concept but without the cool "control the beast's orientation" gimmick that made those so cool. The dungeons here are weak.

Look, the game is good. I could talk about the absolute brilliance of the sky islands, the genius of ultrahand, the amount of brilliant shrine puzzles that were really surprisingly challenging, the awesome pre-dungeon sections etc. I really did love playing the game. But I also put it down halfway through to play something else because I was bored with the structure of it all and had no desire to see how the lame story finished.

And if you'd told me that would be the case with the sequel to my favourite game ever, I just never would have believed you. I firmly believe that TotK is one of the greatest video games ever made, in a vacuum. But for me, given what I expected as a sequel and given the development time, it's also somehow one of the most disappointing.

Couldn't imagine feeling this negative over expectations

 

[Metroid]

I only responded to what I disagreed with or had an actual answer for. The rest I either somewhat agreed with or just did not understand the problem at all.

• How can they make a story that progresses linearly in the present while retaining freedom to do whatever you want, whenever? Well, there's no answer here. They didn't even try.

Why would they? They made the story purposefully to be able to be played in literally any order and still flow decently alright if you only do main quests.

• How can they make the master sword more useful / satisfying given its prominence in the story? No answer. Still rubbish.

This is what Fuse was for. There are plenty of unique ways you can bust the Master Sword open. Give it elemental damage, give it lifesteal effects, etc

• How can some of the frustration with the otherwise necessary item degredation system be solved? Well, they came up with Fusion, but it's finicky and while super fun to experiment with at first, by the end of the game it is such a chore to have to fuse a bunch of new weapons before fighting any silver enemy. I was all for weapons breaking in BotW but by the end of TotK I felt like my opinion had shifted.

Ok this one isn't necessarily directed at you, but it does make me wonder because I've seen similar sentiments before that I just don't understand: are you not just fusing the weapons you get with parts as soon as you get them? How is it a hassle?

• How can they reduce the damage-spongey-ness of combat? Even with fusion, there's no answer. Feels spongy-er than ever. Silver enemies are not worth the trouble.

I feel like my weapons last way longer in this game than they did in BotW. Usually it's a surprise when more than a single weapon breaks in combat with any group of enemies, which is usually replaced three or four times over.

 

[Lugia667]

When comparing MM and TOTK, I would argue that an entire building and crafting system with literally almost any object is more impressive and paradigm shifting than what were fundamentally a bunch of timed event flags.


Also no Addison slander! He is a good hardworking boy

 

[Phendrift]

If I had a nickel for every time the Zelda series had a boss of the Wind Temple who’s name ends with -olgera and has one of the best boss themes in the series, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice

 

[WestEgg]

Had a conversation with some friends about what purpose in lore the shrines serve. In Breath of the Wild, they were set up by Sheikah monks because of the prophecy that the Hero would need them to train for the Calamity. But despite being tied to the Zonai, the new shrines likely don't have the same explanation, since Sonia and Rauru did not initially believe they were in danger from Ganondorf until after he had already killed Sonia, and after that Rauru was pretty occupied with the war. The best we figured is that they were potentially created by Mineru when the Temple of Time was raised into the Sky, which is also why they have a statue for Rauru and Sonia, as a memorial/tribute. Or maybe Rauru and Sonia just created them for their own amusement.

If I had a nickel for every time the Zelda series had a boss of the Wind Temple who’s name ends with -olgera and has one of the best boss themes in the series, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice

It took me longer than it should have to realize Colgera was a call back to Molgera

 

[balgajo]

It's somehow been over a month since I started it, maybe it's time to start laying out some of how I felt about it. Is it an acceptable time for criticism yet without feeling like I'm stomping on other people's fun? Gotta be, right?

There's this famous quote that most probably saw a few times: "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game"
I think I did this a lot on this game.

• My main traversal method on depths. Make a baloon with ultrahand and then paraglider to next lightroot. Ignoring everything and flying through pitch dark.
• My main traversal through the world. Jump from the sky to the nearest tower then launch from tower to desired location. I barely touched the ground except for the locations I wanted to see how changed and some caves I could see from distance.
• Most of towers I landed on top. At least the game took this in consideration with most so I just ruined a few.
• I brute forced myself over thunderhead islands. While I had a nice personal adventure, after the game I discovered that there's nice quest to stop the storm. That could be even better.

Just remembered how I ruined my Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart experience because near the end I discovered an item that made me invincible and last boss battle was ruined as it couldn't give me damage. I always think that if developers let me do it like this and I am sure I'm not exploiting a glitch(like dupe one) then I should be fine. But in the end, when I don't have a good experience, I keep wondering if I approached the wrong way.

 

[AtomicZach]

Had a conversation with some friends about what purpose in lore the shrines serve. In Breath of the Wild, they were set up by Sheikah monks because of the prophecy that the Hero would need them to train for the Calamity. But despite being tied to the Zonai, the new shrines likely don't have the same explanation, since Sonia and Rauru did not initially believe they were in danger from Ganondorf until after he had already killed Sonia, and after that Rauru was pretty occupied with the war. The best we figured is that they were potentially created by Mineru when the Temple of Time was raised into the Sky, which is also why they have a statue for Rauru and Sonia, as a memorial/tribute. Or maybe Rauru and Sonia just created them for their own amusement.


It took me longer than it should have to realize Colgera was a call back to Molgera

We actually get an explanation for that…or rather two. The shrines are there initially because Rarau used them to purify the land of monsters. Zelda after the events then use the shrines to become training grounds for Link.

Honestly the real question is how long was Zelda in the past because she seems to be there for at least a year if not longer.

 

[Mango]

@Heron

Pretty much my same thoughts. I will say tho I think overall, in terms of sheer quality the story presentation is way better than BOTW. At least the lighting, modeling, voice acting, and just general cinematography. The story itself is overall where it falls apart, as while it's certainly more interesting in some regards, and I adore the way the Zonai look and the whole idea behind them, it's just not as good as BOTWs story, and you're 100% right that it feels just like they took the same story and repeated it, which feels bizzare and half-assed. Not that I'm claiming they were lazy, I just don't understand the thought process.

The changes to the world I'm 50/50 on. Some changes completely rework the whole world and are amazing, like the Gerudo canyon now being a river you gotta sail upstream which is my favorite change, but largely it's just too similar. A lot of my playthrough with this game wasn't centered around actually exploring, but instead finding the closest warp spot to avoid wasting time.

Ultimately I really hope the next game tries to be less, "whacky new physics based abilities to create big eye catching YouTube thumbnails out of" and more "Zelda." I want my dungeons and linear present day stories back.

 

[LegendHero]

I agree with almost nothing you said @Heron, which doesn't really matter as my opinion is no more valid than yours, but I particularly don't understand the topography complaint. The topography matters because it's way more fun to follow the actual paths instead of brute force climbing up everything and you miss tons of stuff if you just climb up the tallest thing and paraglider across. I'm surprised Breath of the Wild is your favorite game of all time if you didn't do that in it. Again, not trying to attack you or say you shouldn't have posted that as I agree it can't just be relentless positivity forever, but I really don't see much that would improve the experience if falling off tall things instantly killed Link and you couldn't take shortcuts over climbable stuff.