Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom - Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread (Tag Story Spoilers)

[RagnarokX]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I think I found pretty big evidence that we are most definitely getting themed dungeons back (as in full-on dungeons and not just explorable interiors).




Most agree that this page (154) depicts a boss room of some sort. It goes further than that, however, as on the door to that room there are 5 engravings of a creature that seems to hold a chain suspending the door in its mouth.




Another picture shows the same creature existing in two states, one is inactive with its mouth closed, and another with its eyes glowing and mouth opened.




When an engraving is activated it opens its mouth, releasing the chain within. When all five are active, the door to the 'boss room' will be opened.

Notice that this is extremely similar to how BoTW does its dungeons, with you needing to activate 5 terminals in each Divine Beast to access the boss fight of said dungeon.

I didn't love the Divine Beasts. I'm sure most people agree that having 4 very "samey" feeling dungeons made them feel repetitive, but if there's one thing I'd hope they keep it's being able to complete a dungeon in the order you want. The terminals in my mind are what helped BoTW to accomplish that.

Hopefully with the possibility of new themed dungeons in ToTK, we get the best of both worlds.

That's very worrysome if true. One of the things that made BotW's beasts very lackluster as dungeons was their absolute non-linearity.

Eh, some of the best dungeons in the series are largely non-linear imo. GMT’s Boss Key video series does a pretty good job of showing this off.

I like more linear dungeons too of course - Twilight Princess is probably my favorite Zelda game after all lol. It’s all in the execution, which is what you probably meant be “it really depends.”

Mark Brown created that series with a very clear bias but when he got to Skyward Sword he loved the dungeons despite them contradicting his premise and then was meh with the divine beasts, which are the most non-linear "dungeons" in the series. Breath of the Wild's beasts aren't like previous dungeons. The non-linear dungeons Mark Brown enjoyed aren't absolutely linear. You get a key and you have options which door to use it on. You might have to backtrack across rooms you already cleared or find a door you haven't found. The dungeon still opens up in stages. You still have to do A before B before C or D. Breath of the Wild's beasts are designed like a single room dungeon with 5 puzzle stations and you can solve the 5 puzzles in any order. Puzzles don't ramp up in difficulty and nothing is interconnected.

So if Rauru is the Hand in the first trailer which seems quite likely (and the story hasn’t actually changed from this pretty early concept we have seen in 2019) - then is he still around in the present? Did he loose his arm when he struck Ganondorf and it functioned as a seal or did he spend all this time locked up with him slowly consuming his body and essence as the seal is slowly weakening with nothing but an arm left of him when Zelda and Link find this prison. If it‘s the first why does he have two arms in the concept art? Or do we see him only in flashbacks.
Is the cloud barrier that up until now hid the sky islands actually also a time barrier somehow breaking with Ganondorf returning that allows us to see and visit a civilisation from long ago when we travel up? And the information we find up there in form of the big Nazcalines helps us discover ancient ruins in present hyrule that were lost and buried over time, just like the divine beasts?
Also what’s up with the Deku tree. It‘s not visible in any trailer or any concept art.
There‘s so many cool possibilities.

And that's exactly why I think there has to be more there. Perhaps by being the ruler of the Gerudo, and already gifted with strong magical potential, it made him an easy candidate for training with the Zonai.

What happened to make him go bad this go around is something that we'd have to remain to be seen. Hopefully, it's something more beyond "Demise made him do it".


I guess it all depends on how much of the murals we've seen are things that actually did go down in the past (like what glimpses we've seen that looked like Ganondorf about to be "grabbed" by Rauru's hand?), and what part of it is is still prophecy.

Either way, I can't imagine that if Ganondorf really was someone who abused Zonai-styled secrets to suit his own agenda, that Rauru and "Basket Girl" would take that all lying down.

Well the flash of light casts a shadow from the past on the wall and it certainly looks like Rauru was physically there.

And I doubt Rauru is just a hand in this scene:

The Rauru we know lived a long time. He built the Temple of Time over the Sealed Temple BEFORE the founding of Hyrule and he was still alive in OoT.

 

[Forkball]

Rauru’s design in the art book and the ghost hand are pretty different. The ghost hand has longer fingernails and the bangles have a more jagged, jutting design. I wonder if there are two versions: living and older ghost Rauru, or if there’s any possibility that they are two different characters.

 

[sanstea]

could this be the interior of the big pyramid castle on the map?

It's an interior building clearly from the Zonai.

Nice catch about the green stuff outside the window.

 

[hannibunny2411]

That's very worrysome if true. One of the things that made BotW's beasts very lackluster as dungeons was their absolute non-linearity.



Mark Brown created that series with a very clear bias but when he got to Skyward Sword he loved the dungeons despite them contradicting his premise and then was meh with the divine beasts, which are the most non-linear "dungeons" in the series. Breath of the Wild's beasts aren't like previous dungeons. The non-linear dungeons Mark Brown enjoyed aren't absolutely linear. You get a key and you have options which door to use it on. You might have to backtrack across rooms you already cleared or find a door you haven't found. The dungeon still opens up in stages. You still have to do A before B before C or D. Breath of the Wild's beasts are designed like a single room dungeon with 5 puzzle stations and you can solve the 5 puzzles in any order. Puzzles don't ramp up in difficulty and nothing is interconnected.





Well the flash of light casts a shadow from the past on the wall and it certainly looks like Rauru was physically there.

And I doubt Rauru is just a hand in this scene:

The Rauru we know lived a long time. He built the Temple of Time over the Sealed Temple BEFORE the founding of Hyrule and he was still alive in OoT.

Well he’s certainly just a hand clutching Ganondorfs chest earlier in the trailer so the question would then be how does he regain a full body to catch Link. Curious how it plays out.

 

[hannibunny2411]

Rauru’s design in the art book and the ghost hand are pretty different. The ghost hand has longer fingernails and the bangles have a more jagged, jutting design. I wonder if there are two versions: living and older ghost Rauru, or if there’s any possibility that they are two different characters.

Possible, but it could also just be a slight redesign from 2019 to now. We’ll see.

 

[Dark Cloud]

It feels like Zelda community is building TOTK before my eyes

 

[Serif]

My personal dungeon* candidates (step right up!)

*Serif does not make any assurances about the content of the final game and the contents of this post including grouping of location artwork and given names are purely speculative and for fun

Earth Temple:

Water Temple (it's a mystery why some of this is underground...):

Fire Temple:

Wind Temple:

 

[Mr_No_U]

It feels like Zelda community is building TOTK before my eyes

and Nintendo is waiting just around the corner to tear it down

 

[ze_]

My personal dungeon* candidates (step right up!)

*Serif does not make any assurances about the content of the final game and the contents of this post including grouping of location artwork and given names are purely speculative and for fun

Earth Temple:


Water Temple (it's a mystery why some of this is underground...):


Fire Temple:


Wind Temple:

I'd like to add this as a potential fire/Death Mountain dungeon shot:

It's not a perfect architectural match but the magma/malice glob in the corner has also been seen attached to Death Mountain. It looks like this location is illuminated by heat (magma?) and the black bridge reminds me of the material found around Death Mountain.

 

[Skittzo]

and Nintendo is waiting just around the corner to tear it down

"Here's a few images from the concept art book which shows items that didn't make it into the final game"

 

[Serif]

It looks like this location is illuminated by heat (magma?) and the black bridge reminds me of the material found around Death Mountain.

Haha wouldn't it be wild if those were ruined train tracks haha....

 

[NabiscoFelt]

That's very worrysome if true. One of the things that made BotW's beasts very lackluster as dungeons was their absolute non-linearity.



Mark Brown created that series with a very clear bias but when he got to Skyward Sword he loved the dungeons despite them contradicting his premise and then was meh with the divine beasts, which are the most non-linear "dungeons" in the series. Breath of the Wild's beasts aren't like previous dungeons. The non-linear dungeons Mark Brown enjoyed aren't absolutely linear. You get a key and you have options which door to use it on. You might have to backtrack across rooms you already cleared or find a door you haven't found. The dungeon still opens up in stages. You still have to do A before B before C or D. Breath of the Wild's beasts are designed like a single room dungeon with 5 puzzle stations and you can solve the 5 puzzles in any order. Puzzles don't ramp up in difficulty and nothing is interconnected.

What could be interesting is having some sort of two tiered system. Maybe the first half of a dungeon is an open ended series of puzzles that don't connect directly, but that opens a door to a linear second half that builds on each of those elements. You could even have the first part be in the open world as a series of shrine-likes

I tend to prefer linear puzzle series as well (CrossCode opened my eyes to the potential of just continually building on puzzles elements) but this could strike a nice balance. Though there's no evidence of this actually happening

 

[RagnarokX]

What could be interesting is having some sort of two tiered system. Maybe the first half of a dungeon is an open ended series of puzzles that don't connect directly, but that opens a door to a linear second half that builds on each of those elements. You could even have the first part be in the open world as a series of shrine-likes

I tend to prefer linear puzzle series as well (CrossCode opened my eyes to the potential of just continually building on puzzles elements) but this could strike a nice balance. Though there's no evidence of this actually happening

My go-to example of a nearly perfect dungeon is Lakebed Temple in TP. The way you go through chambers to turn on a water source, which powers water wheels that change your path back to the central chamber and the way diverting the flow of water is used to manipulate other chambers is beyond brilliant. Another problem this addresses that I didn't mention is making the puzzles feel more organic. The mechanisms you are manipulating don't feel so much like they were created just to be a puzzle, whereas the puzzles in the divine beasts feel contrived as hell.

 

[Horror Kid]

My go-to example of a nearly perfect dungeon is Lakebed Temple in TP. The way you go through chambers to turn on a water source, which powers water wheels that change your path back to the central chamber and the way diverting the flow of water is used to manipulate other chambers is beyond brilliant. Another problem this addresses that I didn't mention is making the puzzles feel more organic. The mechanisms you are manipulating don't feel so much like they were created just to be a puzzle, whereas the puzzles in the divine beasts feel contrived as hell.

Exactly. I would want a more open approach where each subset of puzzles are part of a bigger puzzle and it just makes sense that you have to do it.
The divine beasts had some of that like using the position of the trunk of Vah Ruta to extinguish fire, I believe. But just activating terminals is not exciting. As is finding small keys to open a door (it is fine once in a while).

For example:
If you would have to power up a forge, channel the lava to a certain pool by moving big gutters, create the mold of a specific item or boss key and let it fill up with lava, control the water flow to cool the item off, and so forth...
That would create a narrative. You would have to do everything to get into the boss room but you still could do it in any order you like.
It just is very important that they use an imagery which is understood by the player, so they know what has to be achieved.

 

[maidhhc]

If one of TotK’s guiding principles is reintroducing Zelda staples and integrating them into the world and mechanics of BotW, imagine if some dungeons are based on the main hook/gimmick of past games:
-in the wind temple you get a bird suit to become a loftwing
-in the size and scale dungeon you must shrink and grow to solve puzzles
-in the shadow dungeon you get turned into a wolf or manipulate light and mirrors
-timeshift stones for the temple of time
-dungeon of masks and guises where you transform
-cargo dungeon where you manipulate train tracks

less likely:
-2D wall platforming dungeon where the arm allows you to fuse with the walls
-4 swords dungeon where you make master sword gooigi
-botw dungeon which uses sheikah slate abilities
-boat dungeon

 

[Ced Naru]

I tend to prefer linear puzzle series as well (CrossCode opened my eyes to the potential of just continually building on puzzles elements) but this could strike a nice balance. Though there's no evidence of this actually happening.

I really liked CrossCode, but for me the dungeons were easily the worst part of the game. Like you said, they are simply long series of puzzlez, the next being more complex than the previous. Of course, each dungeon main gimmick was different because it was relying on the new element you unlock in it. But it really felt brute forced to me. There was no real theme to the dungeon, no global mechanism or logic. If anything, I think they are the opposite of the classic Zelda dungeon formula.

Zelda is less focused on individual rooms and more on the structure as a whole. When I finish a Zelda dungeon, I can say "I solved the dungeon" and not "I solved the puzzles". I understand that having linear puzzles allows increasing the complexity little by little, but because they were all bound to the same exact logic, the latter puzzles were not more interesting to do, it was simply the same thing as before but with extra steps.

I hope for the balance you mentioned. If TotK can have a shrine equivalent, less of them but longer, it will be perfect when it comes to puzzle solving alone.

 

[Arctic]

Didn't see it at first, but it's a throne room. Question is where. Trees outside seem like they're green so maybe this is on the surface.

These cute little Zonai lotus lamps are everywhere, I want one.

(This artbook has caused my productivity to absolutely plummet)

I think the different colors, could again, indicate more.
I checked the hexcolors and the darker blue seen over the throne(s!) is definitely the same color as Rauru's outfit. Interestingly, miss Basket also features this darker blue color and her red is also sitting in the exact hexrange as in the color examples in the artwork from the throne room. Also her holding red fruit further shifts focus to red.

I think they might have ruled together, which also would explain the 2 thrones.
Also, if you look at their feet, you can also notice the ornaments around their ankles mirror each other, with miss basket having one on the right ankle, while Rauru has one at the left.

(I can hardly imagine Rauru sitting on a throne with the amount of hair he got though)

I wonder why there is also so much lighter blue in the throne room not featured by them. The wingsuits blue arrows and corresponding "wind dungeon" might fit the lighter blue.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

I generally agree with Mark Brown's analysis that the Divine Beasts and shrines can have some very strong puzzle scenarios but end up suffering due to the similar aesthetics/narrative hooks and somewhat flat pacing. Their adherence to openness as a guiding design principle has some benefits, as some things would simply not have been possible in a traditional Zelda dungeon. But they also bring their own set of drawbacks.

While playing I kept thinking about how underused the terminals were and how they could have fixed some of the structural issues. For example, imagine that while entering a DB Link had broken his Sheikah slate and rendered the runes unusable. But since the DB happens to have backups (or some other narrative contrivance) you'd have to gradually restore the runes on terminals. Or how about terminals that lock your Sheikah slate in place so you have to temporarily work without it. What if some parts of the DB were movable from the map but for others you'd have to be connected to a terminal? Maybe that one would have been too complicated but you get the idea.

If we're getting more "traditional" dungeons in TotK I do hope they don't completely throw the baby out with the bathwater but build upon what they did in BotW.

 

[Bosintang]

I love non linearity and I hope it will be present in everything.

 

[Hairway to Steven]

I'm actually excited for this game now.

May can't come soon enough.

 

[Charamiwa]

I have always been of the opinion that the Divine Beasts offer some of the best dungeon content of the series in terms of gameplay. Mind-bending puzzle allowing to really think in three dimensions and where the dungeon itself becomes part of the equation. Running along the moving trunk of the elephant beast was an incredible moment. And then you use that same trunk in a different way to put out a fire. So many cool ideas.

So I hope there's still things similar to this. Non-linear, think outside the box type of puzzles, improved and reworked for the sequel. If they can make it look more unique in look and structure and maybe involved with enemies and boss I'd be really happy. I just replayed Skyward Sword, I'm really not itching for "traditional" dungeons.

 

[Meelow]

@Meelow This isn't a, err, nitpick per se or meant as one, but I believe the title should say "204 pages of artwork leaked." There should be an "s" at the end of the word page.

Unless this was spawned off from another thread and the title was kept, idk.

Just pointing that out because for some reason that confused me lol (like, is it page 204 of the artbook or 204 pages of an artbook?).

Didn't notice I didn't put the s in. And no it's not spawned off, I edited the title since the mod put a note saying this will be the spoiler thread.

 

[merp]

Didn't notice I didn't put the s in. And no it's not spawned off, I edited the title since the mod put a note saying this will be the spoiler thread.

Sure! Understandable! Just pointing it out. Slightly confusing, was all.

 

[LukasManak22]

So here I am

 

[Dark Cloud]

Starting to slow down. We need another leak to keep the train moving

 

[Bosintang]

I like being able to cheat with some puzzles. The shrines often offered that possibility. I hope that if there are dungeons, I can also cheat the puzzles. I also want the possibility to do whatever I want in whatever order I want, which BOTW was really good at. If there's a possibility to fly through the window of the last room of a dungeon and fight the boss with a wooden stick, I want the possibility to do it. After BOTW, there's no coming back to the limitations of the classic Zelda formula.

 

[manfromthedam]

So here I am

Welcome to the loser zone.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I like being able to cheat with some puzzles. The shrines often offered that possibility. I hope that if there are dungeons, I can also cheat the puzzles. I also want the possibility to do whatever I want in whatever order I want, which BOTW was really good at. If there's a possibility to fly through the window of the last room of a dungeon and fight the boss with a wooden stick, I want the possibility to do it. After BOTW, there's no coming back to the limitations of the classic Zelda formula.

I don’t think they can ever truly go back to classic Zelda, at least with 3D.

 

[Bosintang]

I don’t think they can ever truly go back to classic Zelda, at least with 3D.

They could bring back some limitations such as forcing you to do dungeons in a certain order or in a certain manner. I don't want that, I want to have the possibilty to cheat at the game, and use whatever possibilities are offered by the game to solve any issue.

 

[NewPueblo]

So, one of the new things ToTK is introducing is weapon crafting (more like slapping stuff together really). It's something that intrigues me because I want to believe that the sky is the limit with this system, but we've been shown mostly only traveler's swords used as a base.




From the leaked art book we got a little bit more on what different weapons could be used as a base in different "recipes", such as a soldier's broadsword, and the new lv1 Boko club.






Also confirmed on the side of ranged weapons, we see that you can enhance your arrows with different parts. In the trailer Link uses a Keese eye to add a homing effect.




It feels like with the new trailer, and now the leaked art book, there should be a wide range of different combinations shown. Could it truly be the system is limited in some way? Maybe the game tells you what you can craft and then you get the two parts together to combine them.

Alternatively, and more likely IMO, is just that they've held back on just how extensive the new crafting system is. BoTW was all about making choices with the way you played, and experimentation. I don't think a "glue-together" crafting system would truly be satisfying if they didn't deliver to that end.

 

[LukasManak22]

This is another look at the starting area

image from eShop:

 

[NewPueblo]

This is another look at the starting area

image from eShop:

Really just puts into perspective how large some sky islands are gonna be.

 

[HockeyBird]

I don’t think they can ever truly go back to classic Zelda, at least with 3D.

When people start complaining about open world Zelda after 10 years, Nintendo will announce how the next Zelda game is "going back to its roots" with a more linear approach. People will talk about how it's a breach of fresh air until growing tired of it after 10 years. Repeat the cycle for all eternity.

 

[Mr_No_U]

I think they could still keep the old Zelda formula around via remakes and modest budget games in the "2D" (aka top down) style.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

They could make a new IP for OoT-style gameplay. Maybe with a tropical setting and somehow related to stars.

runs away

 

[Dark Cloud]

They could make a new IP for OoT-style gameplay. Maybe with a tropical setting and somehow related to stars.

runs away

Mike Jones approves

 

[Aether]

I think they could still keep the old Zelda formula around via remakes and modest budget games in the "2D" (aka top down) style.

i thought about that at the start (i hoped for a third OoT entry of grezzo in the 3DS, use the engine for a new game), but the fact is, they cant even make 2D zeldas on the regular, and LBWs seems to already have been a sizable jump in production cost compared to older ones. (recorded instruments, higher definition models,...)

I think the cost would be just to high to make it as a "modest budget" option for them. they either go all in or not. And that means, there is probably only space for the 3D formula with remakes and rereleases (at least till there is a big backlash)

 

[Aether]

My gut instinct says the mushroom people aren't a new race, but are instead Hylians who have turned the giant mushrooms found underground into a new fashion trend.

or are just hylians that migrated underground millenia ago.
to many question.

 

[Serif]

I've been reading more of Creating a Champion, for comparative reasons (how closely did the concept art in that book match the final game visuals? answer: pretty damn close), and to get some insight.

The starting point for designing the Divine Beast dungeons was questioning if we could use in-game physics mechanics to make dungeons. We wanted to move entire floors to affect a variety of objects, for example. Then, we decided on the elemental themes of water, fire, lightning, and wind and created designs that combined those with movement.

I tried to make each dungeon into its own character using its appearance, animal motif, and movement. I feel like we were able to achieve something new with the dungeons that is unique to this game, since the player can see the dungeons moving around in the distance while they are exploring and even fight the dungeon itself.

LEAD ARTIST, DUNGEONS: YASUTOMO YASHIBE

The Divine Beasts are these strange things that draw you to them the instant you lay eyes on them. During development we were seeking to create a giant dungeon, and the Divine Beasts, then called the Four Great Relics, were what came from that.

ART DIRECTOR: SATORU TAKIZAWA

 

[HockeyBird]

They could make a new IP for OoT-style gameplay. Maybe with a tropical setting and somehow related to stars.

runs away

So that's the direction they are taking with the next Donkey Kong game

 

[Deleted member 2]

Haha wouldn't it be wild if those were ruined train tracks haha....

DKC MINECART LEVEL

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

So that's the direction they are taking with the next Donkey Kong game

DK isn’t a new IP but it might as well be at this point, not like the last release happened within living memory.

 

[Serif]

DKC MINECART LEVEL

Yos

 

[Pavolink]

The mushroom people are the replacement of the Minish.

 

[LukasManak22]

The artbook has not explained the most important question of if you can pet the dog.

 

[Yavga]

The artbook has not explained the most important question of if you can pet the dog.

But can you pet the cheese?

 

[LukasManak22]

But can you pet the cheese?

No, but you can pet the pretzel.

 

[Yavga]

No, but you can pet the pretzel.

So... Petzel?

 

[MisterSpo]

Starting to slow down. We need another leak to keep the train moving

Spirit Tracks 2 confirmed

 

[LukasManak22]

As was said previously, having the artbook leaked isn't really that huge deal but when the street date for this game is broken, which will be like 7-10 days before launch, that's the time to turn off everything and just wait to play it.