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Rumour Fire Emblem 18 - screenshots have been leaked (Reddit) (UPDATE: another screenshot leaked, see OP)

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I think the effect that stupid/pandering character designs has on preventing sales is overstated, at least in gaming circles online.

It has an effect, obviously. But if the new FE doesn't do as well as TH, there will be other underlying reasons for that imo.
 
snikdasnek said:
mn3apgqb4v591.jpg


Not gonna like, she looks way better than I thought she would
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I love it. I also hope she is voiced and our only character. I want a female MC.
 
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JR436 said:
I think the effect that stupid/pandering character designs has on preventing sales is overstated, at least in gaming circles online.

It has an effect, obviously. But if the new FE doesn't do as well as TH, there will be other underlying reasons for that imo.
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Fire Emblem is an interesting test case for this. We had much the same discussions when Awakening took off. Some people put it down to
A) ‘waifu emblem’.
However, I think it was also
B) the increased presentation values
C) focus on accessibility by offering a no-permadeath mode, an easy difficulty and both simultaneously in a series famed for difficulty and being able to lose a unit you’d poured xp into on the GBA games.
D) increased advertising leading with those latter elements.

It then expanded the audience by attracting those who wanted more of a narrative route through an anime war story rather than a rep for a crunchy, mechanical ‘grind at the arena for an hour and hope the enemy don’t get a crit’ feel.

Looking at how FE has expanded so much, not just through Heroes but the level of amazing fanart and memes each one generates on social media now, I think it’s fair to say that anyone put off by awful characterful designs is going to be a drop in the ocean. I mean, I criticise the worst ones all the time, but I still buy the games. At least you used to be able to send all the worst units off to die and they wouldn’t hang around in camp for the rest of the game regardless.
 
I think it's fine to share opinions about the leaks but it's really useless to try and predict the popularity of the game or make any definitive statements based on this. Let's just wait until we see anything official.
 
KingOnion said:
Three Houses and Toothpaste are just full on anime garbage. Glad WayForward is handling Advance Wars.
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Is it… really worth putting Way “Shantae is 16” Forward on a pedestal while talking about “anime garbage”? They are no better, lol.

Also, if you want to keep your innocence I recommend not looking up who the lead character designer on Echoes is and what they’ve worked on outside of that.
 
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Pixelknight said:
Fire Emblem is an interesting test case for this. We had much the same discussions when Awakening took off. Some people put it down to
A) ‘waifu emblem’.
However, I think it was also
B) the increased presentation values
C) focus on accessibility by offering a no-permadeath mode, an easy difficulty and both simultaneously in a series famed for difficulty and being able to lose a unit you’d poured xp into on the GBA games.
D) increased advertising leading with those latter elements.

It then expanded the audience by attracting those who wanted more of a narrative route through an anime war story rather than a rep for a crunchy, mechanical ‘grind at the arena for an hour and hope the enemy don’t get a crit’ feel.

Looking at how FE has expanded so much, not just through Heroes but the level of amazing fanart and memes each one generates on social media now, I think it’s fair to say that anyone put off by awful characterful designs is going to be a drop in the ocean. I mean, I criticise the worst ones all the time, but I still buy the games. At least you used to be able to send all the worst units off to die and they wouldn’t hang around in camp for the rest of the game regardless.
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Exactly. As someone who got into the series through Awakening, it is a little frustrating to see some people just attribute it to attractive character designs/waifus/husbandos - and this is from someone who quite likes that stuff.

Like, give me a bit of credit. 😅
 
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The art style seems to be more in line with Yoshiku's drawing to me, who is responsible for Gust's Nights of Azure and some FEH's chapters.
DA1HRhP.jpg
 
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Believe Mushrooms said:
Are you SURE Awakening and Fates have more restrained character designs than Three Houses? Like REALLY REALLY sure?
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Honestly, thinking about it more it might just be that I really didn’t like the art style of Three Houses. I do think Awakening was a bit more restrained, though obviously there are Tharja sized exceptions.

Also it’s partially an issue of the Switch being able to render models more accurate to the designs. Something similar is happening to Fire Emblem that you occasionally hear discussed around Final Fantasy where I-VI require you to fill in the gaps around the sprite art while the 3D games just turn some people off entirely due to their style.
 
The game doesn't even have a trailer yet, but it has already managed to damage my psyche by pulling the term 'sexual dimorphism' from the back of my brain and some ancient memes about anime girls being aliens in disguise.

1227961997677.jpg
 
I mean this design isn;t even particularly pandering at all, a bit garish and overdesigned maybe, but otherwise its a normal ass anime girl. I like her.

Also in regards to the heroes thing I saw last page, we have literally no indication that this will be marketed as an online game wtf, FE is first and foremost a single player experiences and IS knows that. We can;t even "build a team of your favorite characters:" because all the playable characters are new lol, the old FE characters is just a gameplay gimmick. So I highly doubt it is marketed that way
 
MarcelRguez said:
The game doesn't even have a trailer yet, but it has already managed to damage my psyche by pulling the term 'sexual dimorphism' from the back of my brain and some ancient memes about anime girls being aliens in disguise.

1227961997677.jpg
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Reminds me of when someone rendered an anime girl head as a skull with the giant eye sockets.
 
I find it hilarious when Fire Emblem, a series that was anime from game 1, has people who're like "it's too anime now" on the 18th game when they never wavered.
 
I'll hold my full judgment when the game is actually revealed, but so far I agree that the character designs are disappointing.
The game closer to Fates in terms of gameplay could be good, though weapon durability being gone has me worried since I wasn't a fan of replacing it with buffs and debuffs in that game.
The best thing that came out of these leaks for me is that this game is seemingly going back to having just one story path since I think the novelty of this concept wore off after 2 games implementing it. Not to mention that in both games the implementation come with huge drawbacks that soured the whole experience (Fates being slipt in three separate games and 3H having a lot of shared maps and plot beats between routes).

I hope that this game is good, I don't want the series to have another dip in quality after 3H avoided many of Fates' worst aspects.
 
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As someone who has 0 interest in FE after having finished Awakening, this art seems like a huge downgrade from TH.
 
Pixelknight said:
Let’s face it, even the ‘was Edelgard a flawed, traumatised leader using whatever she could to win against a totalitarian dragon god that has kept the continent on the precipice of war in its own interests, or a junior fascist dictator that sends the continent over the edge?’ discussions were at least more interesting than debating the level of stupidity in Fates. As it was at least about a decent story where your perspective could change based on who got to discuss their reasoning with you, whether that was Claude or Dimitri, or particularly Rhea or Edelgard. I’ve agreed with various interpretations of it as I listened to people offer their takes.

Whereas Fates is just an argument about your exact level of tolerance for tropes it dives into, which is just as polarised but more of a instant kneejerk reaction to each moment of idiocy by the entire cast as they piled up. If you dislike it, there is no relief from it, no other route that’s less stupid. As opposed to having played through one or more routes if TH, thinking about it and then arguing on the internet about how one or more of those routes as a whole were totally defensible :D
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Yeah Three Houses is the first time in years that the fandom was generally unified on the quality of the latest entry. It was certainly a nice break from the whole ‘Fire Emblem has gone full anime’/‘Fire Emblem has always been anime’ style arguments that were so prevalent with Awakening and Fates that will inevitably flare up again once this gets revealed.

God I don’t think I have the strength for all the anime/fan service debates that are going to come with this one. I’ll take Edelgard discourse any day over that.
 
YoboD said:
God I don’t think I have the strength for all the anime/fan service debates that are going to come with this one. I’ll take Edelgard discourse any day over that.
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Oh don't worry, you'll get plenty more of that in the coming weeks with Three Hopes. It's already started back up.
 
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Fates, Gaiden, and Shadow of Valentina didn't have a durability mechanic and that wasn't much of an issue. Fates makes up for the lack of durability with side effects and in Shadows of Valentia each weapon is tied to a weapon art which you learn after mastering the weapon.
 
Out of curiosity, I checked out YouTube and see other people's opinions and yup, so many people hate the protagonist design and many people believe the leak is fake lol.

There's so much debate on the leak being legit or not but if they have seen Gust games, the leak looks identical to Gust games.
 
Amadeus said:
Fates, Gaiden, and Shadow of Valentina didn't have a durability mechanic and that wasn't much of an issue. Fates makes up for the lack of durability with side effects and in Shadows of Valentia each weapon is tied to a weapon art which you learn after mastering the weapon.
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the leaker did say that the game takes a lot of cues from Fates in terms of gameplay as well as SoV/Wii FE with the free roaming and dungeons and overworld
 
snikdasnek said:
the leaker did say that the game takes a lot of cues from Fates in terms of gameplay as well as SoV/Wii FE with the free roaming and dungeons and overworld
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That's the best of both world, I'm not a fan of the MC's design but everything else sounds REALLY promising to me
 
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Not sure where the "too anime" arguments have come from the last years.

You mean, Japanese artists make designs that resemble... anime?! No way!

FE has always been anime as fuck. People say, oh it's mainstream anime now. It's always been mainstream anime. I just think many of us like what we grew up with or got into anime with. Someone mentioned they loved the look of older entries with that 90's and early 00's VHS anime.... I love that style! It was also literally the style that was mainstream back in the day.

Trends come and go. Look at much American animation with Steven Universe, Gumball, Rick and Morty, the new She-Ra, etc.... they all follow a very similar style. Trends happen.

That said, even among modern anime, there are very distinct styles even when following modern trends tied to the character designer. 3H had a very distinct look, as did Awakening, as did Radiant Dawn.

The hate boner many westerners have towards anime is mind boggling, and it is such IMO 180 to back in the day when we could not get enough of Japanese games with its anime art style.

Not saying one has to like it. People like what they like. It's more the "ugh, it looks like anime"comments that make me raise an eyebrow.

Not sure who the character designer is on this one, as IS chooses the character designer regardless who is helping with development (in this case Gust). Guess we will know closer to release. But on a technical level, Gust games look gorgeous IMO. The new Atelier series look fantastic on Switch.

But let me finish by saying this:

FE is anime.
Zelda is anime.
Mario is anime.

Three different styles of anime, but all anime.
 
Oh.

I don’t hate the MC design, I actually like the goofy hair, but it…wasn’t what I was hoping for, here.
 
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"Too anime" comes across as essentially code for "I don't like this particular Japanese artstyle" or "this character design is too sexualised" at this point.

Which is fine, those statements are fair criticisms that can be made. It just feels lazy given that the medium has a load of variety in terms of styles, designs, tone etc.
 
There is something a little funny about how ever since they really significantly shook up the art style back with Awakening that every single new game in the series has been met with so much hate for its character designs at first lol. I guess Echoes would be the exception, but even then I think I remember a few people complaining about the changes to some of the designs in that game.

Honestly I prefer the characters being more """anime""" though (I agree with @Clix above that the series was always anime but I'll humor the terminology). I actually think it works better for the type of game Fire Emblem is, at least for how it pertains to the supporting cast. I can't remember anything about 99% of the non-Lord characters in any FE game before FE9, and I feel like FE9 is the first game in the series that started upping the """anime""" of the supporting cast's personalities. I can't tell you anything about any of the characters from FE1 besides the 4-5 that get thrown out in every new game, and I probably remember the same number of characters from FE7 and I just played that game a few years ago!

Ideally we'll keep getting a supporting cast on the same level as Three Houses, though. Really has the best of both worlds, They're serious and they feel like they belong but they're also memorable and a fun time.
 
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Clix said:
But let me finish by saying this:

FE is anime.
Zelda is anime.
Mario is anime.

Three different styles of anime, but all anime.
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And in only one of those series is it a turnoff for me and others.

Also, when people say ‘too anime’ we very clearly mean the worst exploitative aspects where titillation is the product
 
KingOnion said:
And in only one of those series is it a turnoff for me and others.

Also, when people say ‘too anime’ we very clearly mean the worst exploitative aspects where titillation is the product
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I mean I wouldn't really call the new MC design titillating, its barely showing any skin, and the only off thing is the boob armor and a bit of leg maybe? Compared to Femleth its nothing
 
am curious about who's handling this game from IS side

I know Gust is involved, but is the same IS team that helped in TH also helping in this ? or IS involvement isn't that big to begin with ?

this game screams if the team that made Fate are making the next FE , seems way different in tone and art style compared to TH, wich is weird, why would they continue with their terrible approach to character designs and tone when TH was a huge success and helped the serie receive very good WoM after Fate terrible reception
 
snikdasnek said:
I mean I wouldn't really call the new MC design titillating, its barely showing any skin, and the only off thing is the boob armor and a bit of leg maybe? Compared to Femleth its nothing
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Tbf this is all just personal viewpoints.

Given that there is some boob armor and exposed thigh, I don't think it's completely out of order to call the MC design titillating.
 
Formula Zero said:
am curious about who's handling this game from IS side

I know Gust is involved, but is the same IS team that helped in TH also helping in this ? or IS involvement isn't that big to begin with ?

this game screams if the team that made Fate are making the next FE , seems way different in tone and art style compared to TH, wich is weird, why would they continue with their terrible approach to character designs and tone when TH was a huge success and helped the serie receive very good WoM after Fate terrible reception
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Fate terribile reception? It was the best selling FE prior to FETH and...it was so on the 3ds, not on thst software sales beast thst the Switch is

And if TH did have great sales out of the gate it was also because Fates didnt have bad WoM at all

Maybe message boards complained..but even that is debatable, considering how many loved the gameplay improvements over Awakaning
 
Fates is divisive in message boards but is a generally well liked game outside of them and twitter. Gameplay wise its up there with all the best FEs, definitely top 3.
 
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snikdasnek said:
I mean I wouldn't really call the new MC design titillating, its barely showing any skin, and the only off thing is the boob armor and a bit of leg maybe? Compared to Femleth its nothing
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Dude, this is supposedly a Gust game. It’s going to be filled to the brim with young girls making kawaii noises or whatever goes on in their games.

I’d point to the recent Famicom Detective Club remakes as a great example of modernizing the aesthetic I’d prefer. It’s just anime renditions of normal people. But if this is the route IS wants to go that’s fine, the series is no longer for me but there are also a million other games out there I want to play I don’t need everything to appeal to me.
 
Formula Zero said:
am curious about who's handling this game from IS side

I know Gust is involved, but is the same IS team that helped in TH also helping in this ? or IS involvement isn't that big to begin with ?

this game screams if the team that made Fate are making the next FE , seems way different in tone and art style compared to TH, wich is weird, why would they continue with their terrible approach to character designs and tone when TH was a huge success and helped the serie receive very good WoM after Fate terrible reception
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The main team that made Fates was behind Three Houses. It had the same producers, directors and sub-director. Fate's art director was promoted Director for Three Houses.
So I don't understand this post, each modern fire emblem is different in tone and artstyle.
 
KingOnion said:
Dude, this is supposedly a Gust game. It’s going to be filled to the brim with young girls making kawaii noises or whatever goes on in their games.

I’d point to the recent Famicom Detective Club remakes as a great example of modernizing the aesthetic I’d prefer. It’s just anime renditions of normal people. But if this is the route IS wants to go that’s fine, the series is no longer for me but there are also a million other games out there I want to play I don’t need everything to appeal to me.
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I mean the aesthetics may be gust, but the rest of the team is not Gust, Emily even stated Gust just primarily assisted with the visuals.

If its not for you its not for you, no one is making you like it or play it. Agree to disagree and leave it at that
 
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Amadeus said:
The main team that made Fates was behind Three Houses. It had the same producers, directors and sub-director. Fate's art director was promoted Director for Three Houses.
So I don't understand this post, each modern fire emblem is different in tone and artstyle.
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this, you can call FE a lot of things, but stagnant is not one of them. FE is one of the most experimental long running franchises with aesthetics and individual quirks in gameplay, especially in the last decade(GBA FE and GC/Wii and DS FE were all pretty samey outside of RD)
 
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Rin-go said:
Is that supposed to be the mature art style? I guess mature meaning something to lewd over. 🤷🏼‍♀️
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Nobody described this as having a more mature art style; it was said Gust were helping with the visuals and, well, it certainly looks that way.
 
KingOnion said:
Dude, this is supposedly a Gust game. It’s going to be filled to the brim with young girls making kawaii noises or whatever goes on in their games.

I’d point to the recent Famicom Detective Club remakes as a great example of modernizing the aesthetic I’d prefer. It’s just anime renditions of normal people. But if this is the route IS wants to go that’s fine, the series is no longer for me but there are also a million other games out there I want to play I don’t need everything to appeal to me.
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Well this just seems like an entirely fair judgement of games you evidently haven't played?
 
Maybe this game is going to be more anime, while FE4 remake is more restrained 🤔
And they want to appeal to both markets.
 
KingOnion said:
And in only one of those series is it a turnoff for me and others.

Also, when people say ‘too anime’ we very clearly mean the worst exploitative aspects where titillation is the product
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This absolutely isn't clear and that's because it's not correct. It's a fluid phrase that changes meaning depending on context and it can mean anything from exaggerated personalities to silly hair to silly stories to characters yelling while fighting to self-insert protagonists to isekai shenanigans to, yes, overly sexualized designs. It would be far more sensible to call things out for what they are instead of using a dumb catch-all phrase of a random assortment of qualities people don't like about a diverse range of works.

It's not even clear in this specific example as it pertains to these leaks lol. If I saw someone respond to these leaks with "too anime" I'd probably assume they were talking about the ridiculous hair on the main character before anything else. Maybe the old man character having the face of a 15 year old boy. It's not a useful term for criticism and it's actually counterproductive for discourse, especially as it invites people who actually like anime to take exception with using "that's anime" as a negative qualifier.
 
Rooster said:
The absurd anime design shit didn't stop Xenoblade's growth, and this isn't as bad as that.
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These type of arguments always ignore people, who played the game despite those designs. And at least XC3's main cast was toned down, perhaps based in XC2's reception.

MisterSpo said:
Nobody described this as having a more mature art style; it was said Gust were helping with the visuals and, well, it certainly looks that way.
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Nate did.
 
I wasn't really believing the first batch of leaked photos, but the MC front picture seems like real. I wasn't really expecting the return of dungeons (if the leak is indeed real) but this seems like a game I will enjoy.
Is there any info if we'll have different routes this time as well? FH3H replay value was huge because of that - I still have to play one of the routes (and I have completed the DLC campaign and thought it was good).
 
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Rin-go said:
Nate did.
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No; Nate described a Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War remake as having a different and more mature visual style, and that remains unconfirmed. If you're going to keep trying to discredit someone, you really should be sure you know what you're on about.
Pavolink said:
Maybe this game is going to be more anime, while FE4 remake is more restrained 🤔
And they want to appeal to both markets.
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If it's true that Intelligent Systems are handling an FE4 remake themselves, then yes, I'd expect it to look somewhat different to the games made with Koei-Tecmo's support. It's also true that Shadows of Valentia had a noticeably different aesthetic to the two other 3DS titles, so perhaps another 'Echoes' game on Switch is taking a similar approach.
 
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