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Discussion In your opinion which style is classic Zelda? Zelda 1 or A Link to the Past?

Which Zelda style is the classic style?

  • Zelda 1/Breath of the Wild

    Votes: 24 22.6%
  • Yes

    Votes: 18 17.0%
  • Link to the Past, Twilight Princess, etc.

    Votes: 64 60.4%

  • Total voters
    106
Not sure how so many people think this. Zelda 1 and a Link to the Past couldn't be more different. A Link to the Past is linear. Zelda 1 is as close to an open world as was possible at the time. Nintendo has said many times that Breath of the Wild was directly based on Zelda 1. Do you and others here believe Nintendo is making this up? If so why?

Marketing doesn't make any sense since Zelda 1 came out so long ago. I choose to take Nintendo at their word over those on this board.
Nintendo has said the exploratory tone of the first Zelda was an inspiration for BotW, that one aspect of the game. They never grouped Zelda 1 and BotW in a category separate from the rest of the series.

Aonuma said in the SSHD reveal that they took many things from SS when making BotW too, does that mean SS and BotW are automatically grouped together as their own style separate from everything else? No.

You’re focusing on ONE aspect that in your mind differentiates Zelda 1 from every other game in the series except BotW and ignoring literally everything else about it that makes it similar to the other games.

And those things you’re ignoring are what people consider “classic Zelda” - the gameplay loop of finding big dungeons and collecting items that help you in them. Which Zelda 1 falls in to.
 
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That's not my intention at all. Not sure why you think this?
Whether it's your intention or not, you're asking us to settle a debate on a subjective matter.

Unless there's a canonical, definitive answer we could reference (which there's not), the "answer" comes down to personal opinion.

You might as well be asking us to settle which Star Wars movies are bad and which ones are good.
 
My point isn't really about the dungeons. The most interesting part about Zelda for me was always the overworld. Something I find lacking in A Link to the Past. Good dungeons are a bonus.

That's why Majora's Mask is in my top 5 Zelda games because the overworld is so compelling. Even though I find the first three dungeons to be not very well designed.

The last dungeon is a masterpiece though so it kind of makes up for it.

My rankings for anyone that cares.

1. Breath of the Wild
2. Ocarina of Time
3. Zelda 1
4. Link's Awakening
5. Majora's Mask

For those that jump on it, yes I realize Link's Awakening is modeled after A Link to the Past but I find its story, overworld and dungeons far more memorable. Sorry not sorry.

And for the record I don't hate A Link to the Past or think it's a terrible game I just think it doesn't live up to other games in the series.
To each their own I guess. I remember all the exploration in LTTP when it first released, finding location A in one world to then reach location B in another, that became a series staple, to be just magical, along with resolving things like the kid with the pipe and the various upgrades and items and sidequests.

To be fair, I see where you’re coming from, everyone has favourite Zeldas and it’s Ok to not find popular ones to be amongst the best. Personally I found Majoras Mask to be a massive disappointment, it was totally not what I wanted from a game so it felt like a huge waste of £50 at a time when I didn’t have much as a teenager. I get why other people love it though, I just dislike timed puzzles, for the same reason that I didn’t like the tower of the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass.
 
To each their own I guess. I remember all the exploration in LTTP when it first released, finding location A in one world to then reach location B in another, that became a series staple, to be just magical, along with resolving things like the kid with the pipe and the various upgrades and items and sidequests.

To be fair, I see where you’re coming from, everyone has favourite Zeldas and it’s Ok to not find popular ones to be amongst the best. Personally I found Majoras Mask to be a massive disappointment, it was totally not what I wanted from a game so it felt like a huge waste of £50 at a time when I didn’t have much as a teenager. I get why other people love it though, I just dislike timed puzzles, for the same reason that I didn’t like the tower of the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass.
Thank you for understanding. I appreciate you.
 
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Whether it's your intention or not, you're asking us to settle a debate on a subjective matter.

Unless there's a canonical, definitive answer we could reference (which there's not), the "answer" comes down to personal opinion.

You might as well be asking us to settle which Star Wars movies are bad and which ones are good.
This wasn’t even supposed to be a debate, it was an argument over semantics.

It started from me saying in the TOK thread that “Paper Mario could be a replacement for classic Zelda if they continue down this route,” to which OP said “Classic Zelda is Zelda 1 and BotW.”

I’m pretty sure everyone knew what I meant when I said classic Zelda. Maybe “traditional” is a better word, I’m not sure. But regardless it’s like the “Metroidvania” argument - nitpicking is pointless, we know what everyone is trying to say when they use a term.
 
Only a sith deals in absolutes.
That's an absolute statement

1643131548450.png
 
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My point isn't really about the dungeons. The most interesting part about Zelda for me was always the overworld. Something I find lacking in A Link to the Past. Good dungeons are a bonus.

Okay, so putting aside the dungeon order linearity argument, I agree that the sense of overworld exploration in TLoZ was its greatest strength. I don’t feel that BotW does anything of the sort, however.

The overworld in TLoZ was compact and easily navigable, much like that of ALttP. What TLoZ did “better” than ALttP was to have limited mapping, unmarked secrets and weird NPCs, and sudden transitions between biomes. Those elements make for a more interesting overworld, albeit a less polished one.

Breath of the Wild is big and slow and cinematic with massive amounts of complexity. When Miyamoto or whoever talk about how BotW is what they would have done originally had they the resources and experience they now have, it’s like Lucas talking about Phantom Menace vis a vis Empire.
 
Not sure how so many people think this. Zelda 1 and a Link to the Past couldn't be more different. A Link to the Past is linear. Zelda 1 is as close to an open world as was possible at the time. Nintendo has said many times that Breath of the Wild was directly based on Zelda 1. Do you and others here believe Nintendo is making this up? If so why?

Marketing doesn't make any sense since Zelda 1 came out so long ago. I choose to take Nintendo at their word over those on this board.
Personally, I wouldn't say A Link to the Past is linear; not totally, at least. I think it's a pleasant middle ground between the incredible openness of Zelda 1 / Breath of the Wild and the more linear games (both 2D and 3D) that were to come, which is why I don't think it is that big of a departure in relation to what came before it.

I think the best words to describe the evolution from Zelda 1 (and 2 as well) to A Link to the Past would be refinement and maturation.

As for Nintendo's claims about the link between Zelda 1 and Breath of the Wild, I think they are spot on. Like you said, it would be silly to disagree with them on that point. It would be like saying to an artist that they are wrong about their influences / inspirations. No other game in the franchise is as close to Zelda 1 as Breath of the Wild, and as far as I am concerned that's absolutely awesome. It's like Zelda 1 was so ahead of its time that it took Nintendo 30 years to have enough technological resources to make that concept materialize in full.
 
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I'd argue that A Link to the Past is "classic" Zelda. The first 2 games were radically different and then ALttP set the template for the series. It's similar to when a band's first album sounds different than their follow-ups - I never consider their first to be their "classic" sound.

If I had to get nitpicky, I'd call LoZ "early" Zelda and ALttP "classic" Zelda.
 
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Consider for a moment Coca-Cola Classic.

The name came about after New Coke, when people sought the old style. It is a term relative to a paradigm shift, and I believe this meaning holds.

In this case, Breath of the Wild is New Coke, so when people seek Zelda Classic, they're looking for the style that was recently usurped.

So yes OP, the oft-iterated Zelda formula that started with LTTP (or OOT I guess) is classic Zelda. Zelda 1 is like when Coca-Cola had literal coca leaves in it in the 19th century
 
Breath of the Wild is big and slow and cinematic with massive amounts of complexity. When Miyamoto or whoever talk about how BotW is what they would have done originally had they the resources and experience they now have, it’s like Lucas talking about Phantom Menace vis a vis Empire.
Wait did you just compare Breath of the Wild to The Phantom Menace? C'mon man.

One is near universally praised another is not. Far from it actually lol
 
You might as well be asking us to settle which Star Wars movies are bad and which ones are good.

Breath of the Wild is big and slow and cinematic with massive amounts of complexity. When Miyamoto or whoever talk about how BotW is what they would have done originally had they the resources and experience they now have, it’s like Lucas talking about Phantom Menace vis a vis Empire.
This just made me laugh out loud 😂
 
This thread took the most predictable turn, it feels almost deliberate in how much it's trying to ape Era in its Era-ness.
 
A semantic debate requires a semantic answer:

"Classic" does not mean "original," and the first example of something is not always going to be referred to as the classic style.

A Link to the Past and its design were judged as very high quality and became the template going forward, codifying the direction of the series for the next 25 years. That's textbook definition of classic.

You could argue that Link to the Past iterated upon the original, focusing in on a particular element of the gameplay loop, because it totally did, just as Breath of the Wild has gone back and focused in on a completely different element of the original, to the detriment of those factors highlighted by the past 25 years of the series.

While it might not be "the classic Zelda style," the original certainly is foundational, and you can see its effects and a throughline of where later games find their inspiration in it.

But in definition and in common parlance, it's not going to be "the classic Zelda formula.



That's all connected to but separate from the assertion that Breath of the Wild and the original belong in one group and everything else in another.

Again, Nintendo went back to the original for the feel of freedom in the original The Legend of Zelda, but it also jettisoned the other elements which were iterated upon in the series throughout its history. The original did, after all, have a decent focus on the dungeons and on receiving and using new items, and this was iterated upon going forward -- even in the maverick Adventure of Link.

The later games, iterating upon the same classic formula, have a throughline directly from the original game; it never would make sense to say Nintendo went back to the original for these elements because the formula didn't deviate from that. Nintendo is going back to the original for the feel of freedom, but makes Breath of the Wild unlike its progenitor when it jettisons other aspects.

Breath of the Wild takes inspiration from the original game in one specific way, and also takes inspiration from elsewhere. in the end, it is different in essence from the NES original, and the insistence on grouping them entirely together to the detriment of all else belies that you don't understand either of them in the way you imply.

For instance, you go from insisting that suggesting the classic template refers to A Link to the Past onward is somehow essentially removing the original from existence entirely, to tossing or the role of dungeons entirely because they're not what you personally care about:
You're rewriting history to confirm to your ideas of what classic Zelda is. Zelda 1 will ALWAYS exist whether you like it or not.
My point isn't really about the dungeons. The most interesting part about Zelda for me was always the overworld.
There's a disconnect here. Dungeons have ALWAYS been integral to the Zelda series and will ALWAYS be essential for any real Zelda.

Point is, tossing those out of discussion because they contradict the point you're trying to make, go against the argument you want to win is counterproductive to productive discourse.

Breath of the Wild draws from the original Zelda in a feel it's trying to emulate; the others draw from it through other ways.

In the end, though, the bulk of the series has followed and iterated upon a particular formula, which has, for the longest time, been codified as the Zelda formula.
This is what is referred to as the classic Zelda formula.


I know I'm going to lose this poll because most younger gamers have never even looked at Zelda 1, which is really sad to me. But you really owe it to yourself to try and beat it at least one time.
For what it's worth, my first Zelda game was the original.
 
A semantic debate requires a semantic answer:

"Classic" does not mean "original," and the first example of something is not always going to be referred to as the classic style.

A Link to the Past and its design were judged as very high quality and became the template going forward, codifying the direction of the series for the next 25 years. That's textbook definition of classic.

You could argue that Link to the Past iterated upon the original, focusing in on a particular element of the gameplay loop, because it totally did, just as Breath of the Wild has gone back and focused in on a completely different element of the original, to the detriment of those factors highlighted by the past 25 years of the series.

While it might not be "the classic Zelda style," the original certainly is foundational, and you can see its effects and a throughline of where later games find their inspiration in it.

But in definition and in common parlance, it's not going to be "the classic Zelda formula.



That's all connected to but separate from the assertion that Breath of the Wild and the original belong in one group and everything else in another.

Again, Nintendo went back to the original for the feel of freedom in the original The Legend of Zelda, but it also jettisoned the other elements which were iterated upon in the series throughout its history. The original did, after all, have a decent focus on the dungeons and on receiving and using new items, and this was iterated upon going forward -- even in the maverick Adventure of Link.

The later games, iterating upon the same classic formula, have a throughline directly from the original game; it never would make sense to say Nintendo went back to the original for these elements because the formula didn't deviate from that. Nintendo is going back to the original for the feel of freedom, but makes Breath of the Wild unlike its progenitor when it jettisons other aspects.

Breath of the Wild takes inspiration from the original game in one specific way, and also takes inspiration from elsewhere. in the end, it is different in essence from the NES original, and the insistence on grouping them entirely together to the detriment of all else belies that you don't understand either of them in the way you imply.

For instance, you go from insisting that suggesting the classic template refers to A Link to the Past onward is somehow essentially removing the original from existence entirely, to tossing or the role of dungeons entirely because they're not what you personally care about:


There's a disconnect here. Dungeons have ALWAYS been integral to the Zelda series and will ALWAYS be essential for any real Zelda.

Point is, tossing those out of discussion because they contradict the point you're trying to make, go against the argument you want to win is counterproductive to productive discourse.

Breath of the Wild draws from the original Zelda in a feel it's trying to emulate; the others draw from it through other ways.

In the end, though, the bulk of the series has followed and iterated upon a particular formula, which has, for the longest time, been codified as the Zelda formula.
This is what is referred to as the classic Zelda formula.



For what it's worth, my first Zelda game was the original.
Great post! Agree with everything here
 
if you think about other series, precedent alone clearly isn't an adequate codifier

like, I don't think of classic mario as mario bros
 
just looked up the context

the fact that literally immediately after I ended my stupid ass argument another one popped up is hilarious

cursed thread
 
if you think about other series, precedent alone clearly isn't an adequate codifier

like, I don't think of classic mario as mario bros
Yeah Mario’s a different situation.

I guess I’d think of 2D Mario in general as “classic Mario”

The 3D ones change too much for them to settle on a “classic” or “traditional” formula

I think that’s what casual gamers consider “classic” Mario too, going by irl experience
 
Yeah Mario’s a different situation.

I guess I’d think of 2D Mario in general as “classic Mario”

The 3D ones change too much for them to settle on a “classic” or “traditional” formula

I think that’s what casual gamers consider “classic” Mario too, going by irl experience
all fair points but for clarity I mean this lol

arcade_archives_mario_bros_mario_luigi_960.0.jpg
 
Trying to divide between Zelda 1 and LTTP has always annoyed the hell out of me, in particular with its resurgence come Breath of the Wild.

It's one game. That's not "classic," that's just what happens to series that develop their identities in later still installments.

Really, the divide only interests me now that there's an avenue for 2D Zelda to meaningfully return in the LttP format, which has always better suited topdown Zeldas than it has 3D entries.
 
It's one game. That's not "classic," that's just what happens to series that develop their identities in later still installments.
tvtropes (ugh I know) even has a term for this


edit: hahahaha

There will always be some fans who view the current incarnation of a series as They Changed It, Now It Sucks!,
 
Unfortunately @Nintendianajones64 isn't here to listen to anybody so:
Acknowledged here:
Point is, tossing those out of discussion because they contradict the point you're trying to make, go against the argument you want to win is counterproductive to productive discourse.
The initial argument is entirely predicated on pathos, and nobody is really going to change it.

The first "real" classic Zelda was ALTTP (or Zelda II)
My vote goes to Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, by the way.

just looked up the context

the fact that literally immediately after I ended my stupid ass argument another one popped up is hilarious

cursed thread
It really is, isn't it?
I was glad that other discourse was able to have an amiable conclusion, though.

It's just, the balance had to be restored.

If Clubhouse Games 2: 52 Worldwide Classics included a Zelda game, which one would it be?
Tingle's Balloon Fight DS
or Game & Watch.
 
People overrate Zelda 1's non-linearity. There's a lot of linearity in how you get to dungeons. OP says he doesn't care about dungeons and that's not what he's talking about (something I can respect to an extent; seeing as despite liking most of the series dungeons, the intense focus on them kind of stilted the potential of the world design), but the fact of the matter is dungeons are how you progress in Zelda games, and when it comes to how to get to, or access, or progress through dungeons, Zelda 1 is pretty linear. The Dark World in ALTTP, on the other hand, is actually one of the more non-linear dungeon orders in the series.

I also feel like Nintendo's insistence that Zelda 1 is the true inspiration for Breath of the Wild is the kind of ammunition used by fans to credit everything and every single idea to Nintendo, the one true great game developer. It's ... honestly a little ridiculous. Yes, it's believable that some inspiration from Zelda 1 was taken, but let's be honest, Breath of the Wild being made after the open world craze started is not a coincidence. It also doesn't take an expert to realize the biggest problem with the Zelda formula was its huge focus on extrinsic rewards. I say this as someone who really likes Zelda games. Breath of the Wild's radical direction-shift probably has much more to do with the failings of the linear-Zelda formula than it does the successes of Zelda 1, and that's an important distinction that should be made.

Zelda 1 definitely feels a little bit different from something like ALTTP, but the differences aren't as pronounced as they're sometimes made to be, and the problem is moreso what small misdirections ALTTP might have had got butchered time and time again until we were left with stuff like Skyward Sword. Luckily, though, the 3D games compensated for this by making the most immersive (and dare I say, memorable) Zelda worlds in the series, and even something like Ocarina of Time has some slight non-linearity.

I also really agree with the commenter who said Majora's Mask should not be left out of discussions. That game is basically The Legend of Side-Quest: The Game. Despite some serious gate-keeping in areas, a lot of the side-quests in that game can be done straight away, and the game really puts a much greater emphasis on exploring and learning about the world rather than just ... you know, doing one dungeon after another.
 
And yes, I realize that I totally ignored the main question of the thread, what is "classic" and what is not.

Let's be honest, that really isn't the meat-and-potatoes of this discussion. It's not the important part, it's just semantics to validate a preference.
Way to discredit the results when they're not in your favor
At least you knew how it would turn out
Yeah I played Zelda 1 for the first time last year as a Gen Zer. No need to call us out like that, lol.
 
I don't really see it as a new style because it's the only other game in the series that gave me that Zelda 1 feeling. That feeling to me is freedom. Freedom to explore its world and tackle its objectives in any order you like.
It definitely harkens back to the original in a lot of ways, like the freedom in exploration and not forcibly guiding the player, but from level design to combat to shrines / dungeons, it's a whole other beast. I see it as more inspired rather than following the classic style
 
I also feel like Nintendo's insistence that Zelda 1 is the true inspiration for Breath of the Wild is the kind of ammunition used by fans to credit everything and every single idea to Nintendo, the one true great game developer. It's ... honestly a little ridiculous. Yes, it's believable that some inspiration from Zelda 1 was taken, but let's be honest, Breath of the Wild being made after the open world craze started is not a coincidence.

This sounds like a completely made up issue when Nintendo themselves have been extremely open about how they looked at other open-world games for inspiration and research and are doing it again for the sequel



In fact, I can't even find anything about Nintendo "insisting" on Zelda 1 as inspiration for BotW aside from the extremely barebones prototype based on it to test out some ideas which they presented at GDC.
 
This sounds like a completely made up issue when Nintendo themselves have been extremely open about how they looked at other open-world games for inspiration and research and are doing it again for the sequel



In fact, I can't even find anything about Nintendo "insisting" on Zelda 1 as inspiration for BotW aside from the extremely barebones prototype based on it to test out some ideas which they presented at GDC.
No, sorry, I didn't mean that Nintendo itself is to blame. I just mean that I've seen a lot of people (especially those who love Zelda 1) really give Nintendo all of the credit thanks to Zelda 1, I've even seen some fans flatout deny inspiration from other open world games because "Zelda 1 did it first". Not on this forum thankfully. And yes, it's all because of that GDC, lol. Which is why I said that, because that presentation was brought up in this thread.

I don't think this is Nintendo's fault, to be clear. No idea why I used such pointed language, other than I guess I found the thread interesting and wrote in a fashion which was too intense-sounding lol. To be clear, it's the differences between Zelda 1 and ALTTP which are more interesting anyways.
 
No, sorry, I didn't mean that Nintendo itself is to blame. I just mean that I've seen a lot of people (especially those who love Zelda 1) really give Nintendo all of the credit thanks to Zelda 1, I've even seen some fans flatout deny inspiration from other open world games because "Zelda 1 did it first". Not on this forum thankfully. And yes, it's all because of that GDC, lol. Which is why I said that, because that presentation was brought up in this thread.

I don't think this is Nintendo's fault, to be clear. No idea why I used such pointed language, other than I guess I found the thread interesting and wrote in a fashion whish was too intense-sounding lol.

All good, the word "insist" threw me off because it made it sound like they were (intentionally or not) fueling some fanboy nonsense when they've cited numerous games like the aforementioned ones as well as Minecraft, Terraria etc. as inspiration for BotW.
 
All good, the word "insist" threw me off because it made it sound like they were (intentionally or not) fueling some fanboy nonsense when they've cited numerous games like the aforementioned ones as well as Minecraft, Terraria etc. as inspiration for BotW.
I have terrible flashbacks to weird NES-elitism (not in this thread) for Zelda and Metroid which probably sparked this wording 🥲:)
 
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Ludwig Wittgenstein (go with me here) once said that the category of thing called "games" wasn't connected by a strict list of things they all had or didn't have, but a set of "family resemblances".

The "family resemblances" of Zelda mean you can slice the games up into a bunch of categories that seem related. When you say "Classic Zelda" to a 40 year old like me I hear "top down isometric", not "linear vs non-linear". Hell, the first 4 games of the mainline zelda series are each arguably in radically different genres.

Zelda 1 is more linear than BotW. Just like BotW, it uses difficulty curves to encourage players along a certain path, but it also literally numbers the dungeons and uses key items to gate access to parts of the map. While there are other paths through the game, they seem more accidental than anything else. While there are some optional goals there are only two things that feel like sidequests - the sword upgrades and getting access to potions.

LTTP has a hard linear main path but an abundance of side quests. Especially if you're not a games expert, discovering the main path in LTTP feels just as exploratory as finding the main path in LOZ, and the side quests feel like you're always going off on little paths and finding things, some of which you can solve now and some of which you can't. The actual route 2 players take through the game can be very different, even if they're doing the dungeons in the same order.

Arguably, BOTW is VERY linear - it's just got a LOT of sidequests. Do 4 shrines on the plateau (yes in any order), get the paraglider, go to Hyrule castle, beat the game. The Divine Beasts are completely optional and frankly harder to find than the Castle - though you gotta beat through a lot of guardians to get there.

I think Skyward Sword is so thoroughly different from previous Zeldas as to be arguably almost as big a break as BotW was from the rest of the series. The lack of a single connected overworld, the redesign of the various regions of the world to be dungeonlike rather than exploratory, the unification of side quests into a single massive fetch quest which required essentially no exploring - it's made up of Zelda pieces but it feels radically different to me.

The break that BotW made, for me, wasn't about linear vs non-linear - that's been a spectrum the Zelda games have been on forever - it was about lock and key vs environmental puzzle solving. There are multiple solutions to each puzzle, up to and including "just climb over it", and that is what felt so fresh.
 


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