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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Kise Ryota
Then I'll say "I told ya"
Re: what SciresM said about BC, I remember saving these:
MishterKirby
Rattata
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Can't they release a next gen patch with drivers and shaders for the new SoC, kinda like the next gen patches Microsoft and Sony already do?
LiC
Member
He's changed his tune on this more recently to basically "however they need to do it, I assume their developers will figure it out to make BC work." Which is the correct take.Re: what SciresM said about BC, I remember saving these:
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- She/Her
Storage speed, sub-1GB system memory and importantly, CPU bottleneck.Oh wow. I wonder how much the Switch 2 could theoretically hold. Guess it would be limited to mostly the 256GB storage size, if 2GB was dedicated to the Switch OS as well.
What exactly held back the switch from holding more, besides 32-64 GB of storage? SSD speed and 1GB for the OS?
Switch 2 might reasonably hold 3 games, 1 suspended and 2 resumable, while cutting available storage to 200GB... But I think 1 suspended and 1 resumable is probably the most realistic outcome. If it's more, great.
gonanzir
Nintendo doing Nintendo.
Nintendo has said that the next console will have Nintendo account, so I think they've found a way to get around that
edit:One thought: whether Nintendo could download a patch after each original switch game cartridge was plugged in,It might even prevent piracy
edit:One thought: whether Nintendo could download a patch after each original switch game cartridge was plugged in,It might even prevent piracy
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
With the speed of the UFS ROM (provided all quick resume data will be on the UFS ROM), the feature will be fast if not near instantaneous. To do this, Nintendo would have to reserve at least 12GB of storage for quick resume. Heck, it would be great if we could quick resume more than 1 title.
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
It probably existed before being scrapped in favor of the Switch.never forget THE PATENT
MishterKirby
Rattata
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In a sense. He's pretty much the lead dev in the switch hacking scene
carbvan
Chain Chomp
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It's purposefully vague wording. We can't glean any info from the quote at all, like LiC called, and people mistranslated it and thus thought Furukawa meant a literal Switch 2. The system is probably just another, more powerful Switch, but that quote from Furukawa doesn't mean that.
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LiC
Member
They're not implying anything, and that's the point. They're calling it the successor to the Switch because that's what it is: the next-generation console that will succeed and replace the Switch. Doesn't mean anything about the hardware proposition.
Setting aside what Nintendo or Furukawa's phrasing means (i.e. nothing), we here already know that the hardware proposition will be similar to the Switch. But similar doesn't mean "New Nintendo Switch." It just means it will be a hybrid with a screen that you can dock.
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
re-compiling? I think JIT will do it's magic with this. The proof is that emulators exists and those does not even recompile the game. If the Switch 2 is fast enough then it can do JIT compilation on shaders just fine.Re: what SciresM said about BC, I remember saving these:
I know that I've contemplated the idea that this is a continuation of Switch. It can take up a space that hasn't been previously explored in earlier generational transitions. I wish I knew how to express this idea without framing it like a previous generational transition though.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
i wouldn't' call it laziness.
It is a pain to turn off one game and start another from the menu. Some games take like 1-2 minutes on switch to load from title screen to menu to your saved state.
With quick resume, you can pick up right where you left off, and it does help with multitasking games. Someone pointed this out earlier... Really good with juggling long games and a short one(action, arcade, multiplayer). As well as one physical cartridge game and one digital.
Just being able to quick resume a switch game by default after turning off the system... and turning it on again and picking up where I left off has been a huge boom. The switch was the first home console to do that. Its one of the most underrated features talked about in gaming (it's been discussed here before many times).
I have a hard time as it is multitasking with games. i usually play one game at a time. With quick resume with 2 games, that won't be an issue and I can finish games much faster. I would have the motivation to do so with this feature
Would be insane if Nintendo made two game cart slots on switch 2, but that will never happen.
SimplyCinnamon
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The big question I’m wondering is if Amelia N. will return on Switch 2 or not? Hopefully she doesn’t become unemployed
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I don't know that it should ever be much more complicated than having enough gigabytes free to save the current state of game RAM. Beyond that it's just a matter of how fast it is at saving/loading it.
I'd imagine it would be lighter on resources than something like video capture, which is always doing work in the background just in case you want to save what you've been doing recently. Saving or resuming a game state wouldn't need to do anything until activated.
Impossible thing to promise. Every home machine since Xbox 360 could've had 1080p60 as the floor if it was considered important enough to the developers/publishers. They've had other ideas.
I can see the disaster now. "Oh no! Switch in its 8th holiday season only sold five times as well as any of our other machines in their 8th holiday season except for original Game Boy!"
There are lots of things more primitive than what DLSS or FSR frame generation do, but I don't know how generally useful they'd be, or I'd think we'd be seeing them already. Here's a demo from over a dozen years ago showing off 30-to-60 and even 15-to-60 that was supposed to be relatively cheap and without latency issues, but... here we are years later and it never took off, and there must be a reason for that.
Here's a more recent demo taking tricks from VR and applying it to mouse movement to try to make aiming seem more responsive with a low frame rate by moving the entire image for the in-between frames.
ika
Moblin
I’m soooo late to the party but this is amazing, both finally getting some specific (albeit not “official official”) information and the info itself.
It looks like Capcom didn’t convinced Nintendo this time about putting more RAM into the device lol. Seriously now, I’d prefer 16GB if this console is going to last another 7-8 years but the jump from the OG Switch and keeping in mind Series S/X and PS5 amounts, it’s an amazing upgrade.
Now, my new unhealthy obsession (besides the expected evolution we‘ll see next month with visionOS 2.0 Beta), is how good the next MonolithSoft project will look with the rumoured specs, and I’m expecting a teaser in the first Switch Next presentation.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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oldpuck
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The number of times I have had Giant Game That Doesn't Support Saves in the Middle of Dungeons or Boss Battles going when I just want to veg and play some NSO Mario is extremely high.
Or just "My girlfriend wants to play two rounds of Mario Kart."
Five games seems like an insane power user feature, but when you've got a hybrid console, not being able to rapidly switch between a casual game and a big major game (regardless of the games save system) hurts.
My Tulpa
Bob-omb
There will be LESS 3rd party support on the new Switch hardware than the current Switch has gotten the last 7 years…for a variety of reasons. Doesn’t matter the specs.
The current Switch could have gotten a port of every Xbox One release the last 7 years. but it didn’t.
The new hardware won’t add anything more compelling. And the state of the the industry and limited dev resources and minimizing output…I don’t see any more support when it has to be exclusive to a relatively low userbase device.
Eh, I’m sure Microsoft who has their Xbox platform pulling in more revenue and profit now than any previous gen is crying about negligible hardware unit sales differences lol
carbvan
Chain Chomp
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These are all good scenarios. It seems my cushy life as a PC gamer who doesn't let ANYONE dare touch his baby has clouded my judgment. Also I hope the "kids these days" line wasn't taken too seriously, I am only 23 which I revealed at the end lol.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
30 to 60 is just good in theory because vsync adds 33.3 ms or so of input lag. Have to wonder why a more basic version hasn’t been done.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
Okay, so this bit was just weird when Xbox sales were declining 30% year over year, but Microsoft has closed five studios in the last four months with many more on the way and this bit has gone from "fucking weird" to "what the fuck."
In all seriousness though, I thought production of 4GB LPDDR5/X modules had stopped.who's to say Nintendo didn't originally go with 8GB RAM for Switch2, till Capcom convinced Nintendo to go 12GB?
MishterKirby
Rattata
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Ah, I see, I'm starting to understand now.
That's kinda what I thought at first, but after reading that I thought they meant it was just going to be a minor update, which from a business perspective makes no sense to me so late in the Switch's life, and that's ignoring all the leaks that have happened recently, too.
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Anecdotally I like being able to adjust some stuff in Cities Skylines, pop over to Penny's Big Breakaway to do an achievement or two, then dive into a round of Forza, then check on my Cities build, all with the same controller, all without them affecting the performance of one another, all without having to load the game in every time.
Now I have a PS5, it's a a feature I DEARLY miss when it's not there. It's not strictly necessary but it saves so much time. Having two slots of it on NG Switch would be a godsend.
ZonaiResearcher
Zonai Survey Team
Maybe backwards compatibility was a big consideration for them because they had 100M+ Wii units sold and something close to a billion games, and they knew it would take them longer to make HD games, resulting in long waits between new releases.
I think it's RAM, you can see for yourself when you open the NSO app while a game is open, it slows down and tells you the system is slowing because you have two apps open at the same time.Oh wow. I wonder how much the Switch 2 could theoretically hold
What exactly held back the switch from holding more, besides 32-64 GB of storage? SSD speed and 1GB for the OS?
I mainly brought up iPhone because it's an example of scaling ARM power over time within a (relatively fixed) device envelope. You can see how much power Apple has been able to pack into a low-wattage RISC chip, and the exponential power increases over a console generation length of time, while the x64 processors are more mature and don't have the ability to increase IPC YoY the same way. Especially with iPhone 15 Pro and its 3nm A17 Pro chip, Apple is making a big gaming push and bringing console games like Death Stranding and Assassin's Creed Mirage. The hardware ray tracing is another noted feature since that's going to be a big draw with T239. But obviously Apple's thermal designs are passive and dated compared to the Android side, where you have vapor chamber, and Switch and Switch 2 will have active cooling with fans for better sustained performance.
Plus going back to ray tracing, we know Nvidia outperforms AMD for that, so there can be cases where Switch 2 has ray tracing on games the Xbox Series S has it disabled on, or it's able to have ray tracing enabled with less of a performance penalty.
YES YES YES
Nintendo isn't stupid. I'm sure they're scared out of their boots about repeating a Wii U situation. They were in the worst situation they've ever been in with that console and immediately hit the golden goose with the Switch. They're now in literally the wealthiest situation of their entire company history, but memories of the Wii U are still fresh. They've had the past nine years to think about where they want to go next.
The Switch was put together from whatever Nvidia had off-the-shelf because they were desperate. It's a night-and-day situation with the Switch 2. The SoC is custom. Everything has undoubtedly been analyzed from head-to-toe to keep this momentum going. They aren't going to suddenly be reckless and suddenly starting selling consoles at a loss or re-join the console wars that's tearing Playstation and Xbox apart. All they need to do is be as financially savvy as they've been over the past few years and they'll be totally fine.
As you say: when the Switch 1 first launched, they were on the 20nm node. But they had to quickly transition to something better. So while they do want to be cost-effective with their spec choices, there's a point where it's not financially prudent to cheapen out. Not if it's going to hurt the console and they're going to end up having to shift gears anyway. At the time though, it was a completely different story and Nintendo just needed to get something out there to keep themselves afloat.
File Decompression and super fast I/O like the other 9th gen consoles for super fast load times, the first console with built-in tensor cores for the best AI upscaling and Ray Tracing on the market, a powerful modern GPU frankensteined from both Ampere and Ada Lovelace, and now just confirmed, 12gigs of ram using the newer LPDDR5X...
Nothing about the Switch 2 is "cheap" so far. Cost-effective and not selling at a loss so families can buy it for Xmas so their kids can play Mario Kart? yes, but not cheap for the sake of being cheap. If anything, it hits a lot of sweet spots to be a competitive and worthy choice for the 9th gen of gaming, especially for a handheld device. There has clearly been a lot of careful thought put into this. The only part to me that's cheap is the LCD screen which I can completely understand. But the OLED model and Lite are proof that there will be several SKU's to keep the train going. Nintendo is playing the long-game and not putting all their eggs into one premium expensive package that they have to sell at a loss. They know what they're doing...
Which brings me to the point: why would Nintendo purposefully put themselves through the same situation with the node? why invest so much hard-earned revenue to create a totally bespoke SoC for a new Switch 2 hybrid console just so they can get an older inefficient node that they'll have to replace anyway? Yes, you can argue that Nintendo often makes miracles with "withered technology", but everything we've seen thus far from the Switch 2 is hardly withered at all. If anything, what they're doing is practically the best that a cost-effective early/mid 2020's handheld could be. I find it hard to believe that they'd purposefully cheap out on an essential like the node when it'll cost them more in the long-run anyway as opposed to a smaller 5nm node like the TMSC 4N that'll last longer, get them more battery life/performance, and it's not like they couldn't afford. With how wildly successful the Switch was, a company would be out of their mind to not cut Nintendo a deal on a higher-quality node so that everyone reaps the benefits.
A lot of rambling, but TLDR: it doesn't make sense to me that Nintendo, Nvidia, and all their partners would put so much time, thought, and money behind this new console only to cheap out on a component they'd almost certainly have to replace in the long-run anyway.
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My Tulpa
Bob-omb
Welll, prepare to be surprised.
I’d be surprised if we saw any greater 3rd party Switch support the next 6 years than we saw the last 6 years.
Nothing suggests we should. Publishers have a bunch of criteria on what platforms to focus ports on and rarely is the deciding factor specs.
The rumor/leak/insider info that the current Switch hardware won’t accept new Switch cartridges leads me to believe Nintendo is effectively turning the 150 million Switch devices into digital only platforms once the new model releases.
No. No guarantee at all.
Switch being reasonably close to Xbox One had zero garauntee about getting most Xbox one ports (it didn’t). New hardware being close to Series S won’t change this at all. Heck, Switch couldn’t even get a decent amount of xbox360 ports. It’s not about specs, it’s about expected demand (or lack thereof)
Will the new Switch be relatively close to the power of an 9 year old console? Yes.
Dekuman
Starman
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I'm not sure i agree with this. XBONE and PS4 were treated as a single platform, and some games were already downscaled to run on XBONE as PS4 often was the lead platform this gen, and further cuts to make it to work on Switch would be impossible or require too much effort.
If you said 'every XBONE game could be ported to Switch if Witcher 3 level effort was put in' i may agree.
Significantly closing the power gap with the weakest Xbox SKU this gen allows Switch to be treated in the same ecosystem as the other two consoles, a weakening Xbox market may actually entice devs to focus more on Switch 2, since the PS5 isn't significantly taking market share from Xbox, it's tracking about the same as PS4.
Certainly tthe suggestion of various leakers who indicate 3rd plarty multiplat announcements with Switch 2 included is coming would suggest Switch 2 is getting more support than Switch from 3rd parties at launch, where with OG Switch i believe a few games like Sonic Forces , LA NOIRE remastered and Skyrim SE were confirmed multiplat releases for the launch window and 3rd party multiplats didn't really show up until a year later. That's not to mention guaranteed COD games and EA onboard with Frostbite already ported to NVN on Switch 2 this time around.
How support pans out over the life cycle of the console also has much more to do with performance of platform than anything else. If the market is there the games will be there, especially if it's much less effort to port.
As to the discussion of switch 2 versus PS4 Pro, I think this video here demonstrates a nice comparison of raw horsepower versus lower horsepower but with more modern features. I believe the 3DS was inferior to all 6th gen consoles in terms of straight computational ability, however it has some features of the 7th gen to somewhat compensate.
So here, if we can compare the two closest versions, Ganondorf from the Wii and Ganondorf from 3DS versions of Smash Brothers. you can see that the Wii version seems to have more polygons and slightly better textures with far less aliasing. The model overall is pretty great all things considered. However, the 3DS version seems to have slightly better lighting effects, causing the metal in Ganondorf's armor to shine, and this in turn seems to causes armor to pop out more visually, giving it a bit more of a solid and more realistic feel, and overall far more attractive look. In particular, take note of his chest armor and his gauntlets, which look like they're actually glistening in the sun. I really love the way they look. This seems to be pretty impressive stuff. In fact, both the wii and 3DS versions look much much, MUCH better than I expected them to. I'm genuinely impressed given their respective Hardware capabilities.
And on the other end both the Wii U and switch versions surprise me in that they seem a lot less impressive than what I was expecting. In the Wii U version, Ganondorf's armor seems completely drab and flatter in comparison to both the wii and 3ds versions. Ganondorf in the switch version doesn't have nearly as much armor, but he is wearing some on his shoulders where you can see a little bit of shine to them, thoug hilariously enough, there seems to be more shine on Ganondorf's muscles than on his armor there. I'm not exactly sure if this was a stylistic choice for both those versions or if the lighting systems on their respective consoles were already strained.
Regardless I thought this was a pretty cool and interesting video.
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omniryu
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that's what was crazy. PPC was dead at that point. surely nintendo wouldn't spend money on a dead IP to make a triple core version, right?
A day one buy.
What about emulation? The Switch OLED emulated itself before. Granted it was overclocked to the max and had a 8 GB ram installed.
Yeah, because ignoring Nintendo's platform is good idea. BTW, how is final fantasy doing in Nintendo land, I mean hyrule, I mean Kanto, I mean Mushroom Kingdom, I mean in Kamura Village, I mean Hisui, I mean Johto, I mean Japan?*
Final fantasy needs expansion, more platforms. GAAS can only benefit by being on the Switch 2. Switch 2 is core for core. Less than 1 or 2 GB among available ram from the competition. Better ray tracing, fast storage, and has capability to go up to 100 million users, but you say that we won't get greater support? Ok.
*( all those lands, the game they are from vastly sold more than the Playstation exclusive, FF16. Because no one in Japan is buying Playstation, the American console.)
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Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Nintendo doesn't really have "withered technology" from the switch, and with the HD development that started with the Wiiu, Nintendo doesn't go for backward hardware technology like they did with the Wii.
ZonaiResearcher
Zonai Survey Team
Wii U and Switch both used slow flash storage though, so they didn’t get to take advantage of SSD-level speeds until now with Switch 2. That could be considered one of the longest-running flaws of their home consoles.
OP
OP
Branduil
Bob-omb
The 3DS chip was interesting, it was fixed-function but it had some modern capabilities like built-in normal mapping that were much harder to do in the PS2 gen. In raw power it was weaker than those consoles but the better lighting could give a more impressive image in some cases, especially on a smaller screen where the lower poly counts and low-res textures are less noticeable.
Hajeman
Casual gamers rules over hardcore gamers 😎
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Bro reply to msg way back to previous 68 pages
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It's speed Quick resume basically put the entire ram into storage when switching games. Assuming all 32gb is available, it can fit 10 games since games have access to 3gb of ram. But with Switch' storage speed, it probably takes over a minute move 3gb into storage and another minute to take out.Oh wow. I wonder how much the Switch 2 could theoretically hold
What exactly held back the switch from holding more, besides 32-64 GB of storage? SSD speed and 1GB for the OS?
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
If the horsepower comparison doesn't prove that the switch2 has a ps4pro-like level of graphics in docking mode at the highest bandwidth tolerated (close to 4tflops) and without dlss turned on, then I don't think the horsepower comparison means much, I'd personally prefer a more comprehensive argument (which I can't do given my level of hardware knowledge. lmao)
My Tulpa
Bob-omb
DS -> 3ds in terms of power differential.
2ds -> N3ds xl in terms of positioning and support
As far as we know absolutely ZERO difference in terms of “gameplay gimmick”. The new hardware is designed to just play Switch games with better graphics/performance
The confusion isn’t about whether the new hardware has “next gen” specs, it does. The confusion is not knowing if Nintendo is going to treat this as another model in the Switch family of devices, or as a gen breaking successor model. Still could go either way despite the semantics
I agree. Which is why I maintain the strategy for Nintendo is keeping their game design scope more like TotK and MP4…can run on all Switches, while the new hardware runs it faster, with optimal performance, and outputting modern graphics. Basically how they showed off the capabilities of the new hardware to devs by running BotW on it…a Wii U game.
Eh, Microsoft published software releases this gen will be arguably just as good if not better than Sony published software or any other individual 3rd party publisher.
$500? I'm reasonably confident Nintendo wouldn't go over $399. Or were you using Canadian dollars?
The OLED Switch has been selling gangbusters for years at $350. And that’s just a slightly better screen.
There is no good argument why Nintendo couldn’t price this new hardware over $399
At the time, it was the same or better than PS4/Xbox One's HDD. Not that it would matter since the speed is heavily limited by the CPU not able to decrypt the files fast enough and wouldn't make sense without the File Decryption hardware Switch 2 is getting..
Danny
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Why would Nintendo permanently make games for 2015 specs? That seems like a proposition designed to fail. You think the next big 3D Zelda game will look like a game they started to work on in 2012 like Breath of the wild even though the Switch 2 is capable of a huge leap in every way over that?
NineTailSage
Bob-omb
Nice catch I didn't decipher that!
Those "Nintendo Jedi Shinobi" are tricky with their wordplay...
I also think that as long as both Nvidia and AMD are only putting 8GB of RAM in their entry level graphics cards,
Switch 2 will have more than enough RAM to last its lifetime.
Depending on how much they reserve for OS functionality, Switch 2 will be a stone throw away from what both PS5/Series X dedicate for games.
Those systems are aiming for higher native resolutions versus what Switch 2 would go for, so this is where DLSS will do the heavy lifting.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Sure there is. Just price drop OLED, simple as that.
Nintendo's not going to prioritize selling OLED over Switch 2 when Switch 2 launches.
Pricing Switch 2 over $399 is going to cause struggle from the start. Watch Nintendo price Switch 2 at $399 or lower (for the US region)
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Individualised
Like Like
I think this might be about the 5th time you've said this despite the fact that everyone has told you that this is not the case. Every single time. It is not designed to do that at all and is quite the opposite. I'm not going to explain the technical details again. Your input is appreciated however it is very annoying seeing the same piece of misinformation repeated over and over.
I am fully confident this is how things will go, but in the interest of being objective the following is an opinion:
Yes the next system is going to be a traditional successor to the Switch. Yes Switch and the next system are going to be heavily interlinked, and backwards compatibility will be a big part of it. Yes the next system will be part of the Switch family. What Nintendo aren't going to do with this system is market it as a non-essential, premium version of the Switch 1 with practically no support beyond patches for Switch 1 games and a small number of exclusive games, while keeping Switch 1 the main focus. That isn't what is happening here.
Yes the next system is going to be a traditional successor to the Switch. Yes Switch and the next system are going to be heavily interlinked, and backwards compatibility will be a big part of it. Yes the next system will be part of the Switch family. What Nintendo aren't going to do with this system is market it as a non-essential, premium version of the Switch 1 with practically no support beyond patches for Switch 1 games and a small number of exclusive games, while keeping Switch 1 the main focus. That isn't what is happening here.
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There were a number of companies that missed the boat with the Switch, and some even admitted to that in retrospect. By the time they realized that the Switch was going to be a successful console (and not crash and burn like the Wii U), many third party companies were already too deep in development on PS4/XBone games to easily adjust to include the Switch. Nintendo coming in now after a huge win, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that more companies will take the Switch’s successor more seriously from the start.
At the least, the successor will actually get CoD games.
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