News Yuzu devs have agreed to paid Nintendo 2.4 million to settle lawsuit.

[Toad King]

I'm learning so much, wow.

Are many modern emulators like this?

Dolphin is the only other one that does analytics/telemetry AFAIK. It seems like some of these emu projects try really hard to be "professional" programs which is a double-edged sword when working in a legal grey area.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

I am going to say something somewhat controversial on this forum, but preservation for current media by consumers tends to not really exist without there also being a demand for piracy. You really can't have one without the other.

I'm not here trying to tell you piracy is great or anything, but if you are pro preservation of modern media you have to grapple with the fact piracy is going to come along with that in some capacity. It's why I always get weirded out when people talk about "preservation" in a nebulous sense like it's purely academic. Historically in other media this is not the case, and fan preservation that is adjacent to piracy has always been part of it. I've said it before but I'll say it again, I wouldn't let pirates trying to morally shield themselves by invoking the term preservation really weigh too heavy on how I feel about this kinda thing.

I do generally agree Yuzu kinda stuck their whole ass out there and caused problems for everybody, don't get me wrong. I get why they did it, but it was clearly the wrong move to be so brazen and frankly stupid to go as far as they did. Just, I do kinda wanna put it there to untangle this specific line of thinking that there is a kind of nuance in the grey area between piracy and preservation.

Just want to say that this is the best comment I've ever seen on preservation on this forum, it's so annoying how people try to use this topic as a gotcha against preservation bros by uttering piracy, as if that is an immediate shutdown to the argument, and as if there is really much reason to preserve games without letting people play them, as if the entire medium isn't about being part of the experience.

(Not saying you stand by what I'm saying)

 

[Candescence]

Well, nuts. Thankfully both the Yuzu and Citra source codes are still going to be widely available (there's no putting that genie back in its bottle), and Ryujinx is still continuing development (with that team likely going to be especially cautious not to give Nintendo ammunition to come after them next, though from what I know they weren't nearly as brazen as the Yuzu team to begin with). Someone is gonna pick up the development of both emulators under another name, but their development is likely going to be set back by months at the very least.

Still, this sucks quite a bit.

Not a fan of the chilling effect this will have.

Also, if this much is true:



Doesn't this whack Dolphin too? If Nintendo dares to go for Dolphin I'm 100% done with them.

I don't think they can really do that, you can't create precedent via settlement, that's not how this works.

 

[BotenAnna]

(Not saying you stand by what I'm saying)

I do agree that there is no point in preservation if the average person can't experience the art on their own terms anyways.

 

[BassForever]

Here's my take on this whole thing

Emulating old games that companies are not providing official access to in modern day? Go ahead, emulate it. I'm not gonna expect anyone to dish out $300 for Path of Radiance on eBay.

Emulating games that are currently available for official purchase by the company? Best to support the devs who worked hard to create it and buy it officially. Nobody should be able to play TotK for free through emulation right now (or especially before launch!) when devs worked their asses off for years to deliver a project with passion and love. If you're not going to shoplift a physical product off store shelves, I don't see why you'd pirate their hard work either.

(EDIT: The only case where I see this getting a bit tricky is with remakes/remasters. For example, is it unethical to emulate original TTYD when TTYD remake is on store shelves? I'm actually not sure about that one)

And yeah if Yuzu was profiting off of Nintendo devs' work through Patreon and whatnot, that's fucked. Surprised this didn't happen sooner.

Fwiw I would consider that as some version being available when it comes to Fami's policy on currently availability. You may prefer OoT with the version 1.0 muslim chanting music, but nobodies is giving you the green light to "emulate" that version over paying for NSO+EP.

If you think there should be an exception for remakes, I'd argue it should probably be for remakes that change so much they're basically new games like REmake 1-3 or FF7 Remake/Rebirth/Reunion. It's especially applicable with RE1-3 as afaik the last time you could buy those was on ps3/psp/vita.

Of course when in doubt it's probably best policy to don't ask don't tell. You chose to play the original PM TTYD before the release of the remake, nobody needs to know how you chose to play it.

 

[thoughthaver]

I genuinely think it's irresponsible how brazen some of these devs are getting

stuff's way more precarious than they wanna admit and all it really takes is one dumbass flying a little too close to the sun to potentially ruin things for everybody. Feels like a lot of folks are hoping to start a fight they are by no means guaranteed to win

i think its arrogance but also who would say no to 30k a month. the moment you mix the two though you get people thinking that the sun surely won't melt the wax holding their wings together, followed by the sun melting the wax holding their wings together.

 

[TreeSign]

i think its arrogance but also who would say no to 30k a month. the moment you mix the two though you get people thinking that the sun surely won't melt the wax holding their wings together, followed by the sun melting the wax holding their wings together.

I still wonder why people decided to back a patron of emulation and cracking video games. If I am not going to pay for a current up to date game then I am not going to pay for somebody who didn’t even make the product.

 

[hologram]

Fwiw I would consider that as some version being available when it comes to Fami's policy on currently availability. You may prefer OoT with the version 1.0 muslim chanting music, but nobodies is giving you the green light to "emulate" that version over paying for NSO+EP.

To be clear, Fami's policy is on piracy not emulation. If you own the original OoT cartridge, you are well within your rights to dump the ROM and emulate it if thats how you'd prefer to play it, that's neither against the law nor against Fami rules

 

[Mer.Saloon]

Aye - Just saw a thread on another forum where the mods put up a big red "Do not post or DM links to backups of the Yuzu or Citra source code or installer on this forum" notice on the Yuzu Lawsuit thread. The source code itself hasn't been deemed illegal, but it's managed to develop a "stink" that has everyone scared shitless of being Collateral Damage.

I don't doubt both will be "back" but they're absolutely Going To Ground and it'll be under a new name with new aliases attached to any definitely not returning maintainers.

Saw this quote on the other site, and this is the kind of reaction I expected to be Nintendo's goal. Scare people shitless so that everyone panics and starts going back underground.

Expect some serious ripple effects in quieting up people for a little while.

 

[Selarmor]

Emulating old games that companies are not providing official access to in modern day? Go ahead, emulate it. I'm not gonna expect anyone to dish out $300 for Path of Radiance on eBay.

What you're actually saying here is "go ahead, pirate it."

Emulating games that are currently available for official purchase by the company? Best to support the devs who worked hard to create it and buy it officially.

This is a given. To emulate a game legally, you must own the cartridge and dump the ROM yourself.

Nobody should be able to play TotK for free through emulation right now...I don't see why you'd pirate their hard work either.

Anybody who purchased TotK and dumped the ROM themselves can absolutely play the game through emulation.

For example, is it unethical to emulate original TTYD when TTYD remake is on store shelves?

If they own the original TTYD and dumped the ROM themselves, obviously not. That a remake exists is irrelevant.

You're just using emulate and pirate interchangeably.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

At the end of the day, I'm just glad this case didn't go any further, and Yuzu gave up. Sadly Citra went down with them. Nintendo's stance on emulation stinks. But let this be a lesson not to bully a dragon.

We're still in this precarious grey area for a while yet.

 

[Legion of Primes]

To be clear, Fami's policy is on piracy not emulation. If you own the original OoT cartridge, you are well within your rights to dump the ROM and emulate it if thats how you'd prefer to play it, that's neither against the law nor against Fami rules

That’s what I did with my Wii U and 3ds games and now the only way I can play 3ds is whatever I got on my steam deck. I dumped my own games for emulation

 

[Previously on Lost]

noooo Citra

 

[Mendinso]

So, I wanna point this out and this is really important, because I'm seeing some people go towards a specific area that I don't feel comfortable with: Some people on this very forum (in fact, there was a topic not that long ago of an individual that was in a weird area for purchasing games legally discussing some stuff) are in legal grey markets, due to no ease of access to games, and a few are in heavily sanctioned areas, which means no way of legally purchasing games. Baring that in mind, I do get worried that people are equating people who pirate games, especially older games, as possibly bad people with the way the tone/responding to a few individuals here. I know this isn't explicitly regarding the topic at hand, but please bare these two conditions on this whole matter.

There is also the discussion to be had also people in a very difficult income range (which I do fall into), and I support everything I can when I can, but I'm probably getting off topic at this point.

Either way, just wanted to make this post with the way I'm seeing certain responses in here, especially both with people I know personally, seen people post here, and my own personal experience on the poorer side of things.

That's all I wanted to say about that and I really hope people can be more careful with the toning of certain posts.

(EDIT: I hope this isn't considered backseat modding here, just worried about a few posts through this thread I saw).

 

[switchum]

What you're actually saying here is "go ahead, pirate it."

Ok, sure. Call it that if you want. The point of my argument is in favour of video game preservation. It sucks to see old games basically unplayable for a new generation of gamers because they’re locked behind extremely high prices on secondhand sites. If these old games were available for modern purchase, even through a subscription service such as NSO, I’d always advocate for that and say that emulating (or pirating, sorry) is unethical.

If Nintendo wants to make old games available to play, then absolutely support their official methods. If not, well… I think it’s fair to suggest that people should be able to find workarounds. The games shouldn’t be unplayable to a major portion of the population because companies have decided to restrict their access. They’re games — they’re art. They should be accessible for interested people to enjoy.

This is a given. To emulate a game legally, you must own the cartridge and dump the ROM yourself.


Anybody who purchased TotK and dumped the ROM themselves can absolutely play the game through emulation.


If they own the original TTYD and dumped the ROM themselves, obviously not. That a remake exists is irrelevant.

Ok, yeah, this is true and something I should have accounted for in the original post. I’m not too well-versed on emulation methods so I wasn’t aware of that possibility; thanks for making me aware of that, and yes obviously I 100% agree.

You're just using emulate and pirate interchangeably.

And also, not that this is terribly relevant to my point, but I want to add that I don’t emulate/pirate ANY games. I don’t pirate currently available games since I think it’s incredibly unethical, and I also don’t emulate/pirate older games… but that’s not because of some moral argument; it’s because I’m into physical collecting and playing on original hardware. I personally hate the feeling of playing on emulators lol. But I’m also not going to judge anyone who — again — isn’t willing/able to shell out exorbitant prices online.

 

[zumaddy]

Seeing how fast this all went down, I'm willing to bet private communications from Yuzu were absolutely damnimg. If they were somewhat bragging publicly, they must have said some stupid things in DMs.

Citra is the real loss here with the 3DS eShop down.

 

[xghost777]

The conversation here is dipping in and out at times at advocation for piracy which is against site rules. We’ll be locking the thread here. -xghost777, Tangerine Cookie, Barely Able