AegisField
Rattata
Splatoon 3 and XC3 performed well.
Engage may not be able to match Three Houses' lifetime sales, but by my standards it's still not bad.
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Sales Data Updated sales numbers for Switch titles: Tears of the Kingdom (18.51M), and more (UPDATE: new sales numbers for many other games, see threadmarks)
- Thread starter mazi
- Start date
Engage may not be able to match Three Houses' lifetime sales, but by my standards it's still not bad.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cool. A flop indeed
thoughthaver
Chain Chomp
YoboD
Koopa
I do love seeing Three Houses continue to leg it out all these years post release. The fact that it’s still selling this well and that the community is continuing to pump out fanfiction and fanart shows just how much people connected with it. Really, over 4 million is getting pretty close to what Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest sell at this point.
D
Deleted member 2
Guest
No answer from the troll, I recommend doing what I did and put them on ignore
D
Deleted member 2
Guest
Ew.
AtomicZach
Koopa
Funny you should say that...I just finished reading a 1.6M word fanfic about Three Houses recently...and that kind of is inspiring me to write my own...Yeah it's something about the characters and the sheer volatile situation where no one has the full idea of what's going on that really lends itself to fanfic and what ifs.
YoboD
Koopa
Was it An Eagle Among Lions?
AtomicZach
Koopa
yep...I lost a grand total of 9 days devouring that...
Edelgard/F!Byleth is my OTP but that did a very good job at getting me invested in Edelgard/Ingrid as well...
ethanswift
Switch Online N64 Player
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- he
Will XC3 reach 3 million sales?
I hardly think so according to the experience I got from XCDE, XC2, & XC3.
I hardly think so according to the experience I got from XCDE, XC2, & XC3.
PixelKnight
Observing the process
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Yeah, this. It probably didn’t quite meet expectations, but that’s a long way from ‘flop’ when it’s still in the upper tier of the franchise.
I think there’s aspects to Engage that limit it’s long-term appeal/player engagement when compared to some of the other games and particularly TH, but then I think we all should be wary of matching up our subjective take on a game with sales. So many times I see people go ‘yeah that underperformed and it must have been because of (subjective element I really disliked), but it’s almost always more complex than that, and sales performance of a popular IP isn’t always exponential growth. I doubt Nintendo are unhappy with Engage given it’s likely a different beast to whatever they’ve got planned next, it had some good ideas and variety isn’t always a bad thing.
Mekanos
300 Years Of Gyudon
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Definitely not. I'm not even sure Xeno 2 will get there.
I feel like this post hasn't been quoted enough so i will add my piece
Your math doesn't work at all because BOTW didn't launch at $60 in every region.
The game was already priced at 70 € in Europe for instance.
In Japan TOTK was slightly more expensive than BOTW at launch but the difference was minimal.
Those are only the most major markets but there are probably other differences with other smaller markets as well, CBA to go look for it though;
Also vouchers weren't a thing when BOTW launched, so it's completely impossible to say how much TOTK and BOTW have made in revenues anyways.
The game was completed a long time before it got released, we know it. No other reason to read the DLC coming out quickly as anything other than the DLC was most likely already done before the game even came out.
It won't sell as well as Three houses but calling it a flop is a big stretch...
But hey i for one am glad this flop existed because as a long time player of the franchise i had way more fun playing Engage than Three Houses.
XC3 will not reach 3 million.
XC2 has a shot though.
Personally. I don’t think I’ll say it underperformed.
I do think Three Houses Vastly over-performed. Fire emblem never had a 3 million seller, fates really doesn’t count cause of how Nintendo counts it, but it blew past that and it could end up at 5 million in a slow crawl.
Revolsin
Moblin
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i do think it's fair to see Engage compared to 3H as a relative underperformance, even if it is still a success by all means for FE standards.
it does outline important information about the franchise. like just how important well-developed engaging characters really are to the FE experience, and what kind of audience it's gained from 3H going forward
it does outline important information about the franchise. like just how important well-developed engaging characters really are to the FE experience, and what kind of audience it's gained from 3H going forward
Arynio
Tektite
Your revenue estimates for the Zelda games are flawed because you're ignoring something that has been already stated in the thread: the $60 -> $70 price increase only applies to the Americas. In Europe BotW was already sold for €70, and in Japan the price increase is so small it's almost negligible.
Neither FEE nor XC3 flopped. They definitely underperformed relative to their predecessors, but they sold (are still selling) fine enough.
Regarding XC2, I've been saying its lifetime sales would end up in the 3-3.5M bracket since many years ago and people laughed at the idea. While 2022 was a particularly good year for it, boosted by the promotion and launch of XC3, and we shouldn't expect similar sales in 2023 (it's notably down across eShop listings relative to last year), I'd say it's highly likely it crosses 3M before the end of next year. 2025 in the worst case. And if Switch 2 has backwards compatibility, it won't stop there.
Yes, that's a good analysis. XC3 is not showing particularly good legs, although the release of Future Redeemed boosted it for a while back when it released. Someone else mentioned that the initial overshipment might be hiding some of its legs, and while that's certainly true to some degree, its eShop listings didn't point to particularly good legs after its launch window. Still, it will be over 2M at the next CESA update, and I wouldn't discount its chance of reaching 2.5M if the game receives a 4K patch during the launch window of Switch 2, and one of its characters is added to the next Smash game, and/or if the next game in the franchise is highly successful and is able to reinvigorate sales of its predecessors for a while.
By the way, XC3 has just been announced as the headliner of the Switch Summer Sales in Japan, marking the first time the game is discounted in its homeland, so we shall see how much of a boost it gets.
Galgavias
Koopa
This right here. Three Houses had an element of zeitgeist about it. People went nuts for that particular game and its characters, and word of mouth was very strong. Engage was basically brought back to the level of sales established by Awakening, which is still pretty high for the series overall.
I think the insane sales some Switch games have enjoyed have warped people's expectations somewhat. Game series fluctuate in sales all the time, not even Zelda or Mario are immune to that. Just because a game doesn't sell on the same level as it's predecessor doesn't mean it's a flop. Not to mention there are other metrics for success. Coming back to Xenoblade 3 for example, yeah it didn't do the numbers 2 did, but it did generate a huge amount of online buzz and got nominated for a number of awards, which will have pleased Nintendo.
Kartina
theprocessbroke
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I think it's funny how if a sequel doesn't outsell the biggest game in their franchise is considered a flop. The insane success of the switch has completely warped the way people look at sales performance.
I'll just say that both xenoblade and fire emblem becoming consistent 2mil+ series is something that nobody would have thought 10/15 years ago, and now selling they have 2 over performer at 4mil and almost 3mil respectively while the second released game in the series is at 2mil. You can't expect perpetual growth for every franchise.
I'll just say that both xenoblade and fire emblem becoming consistent 2mil+ series is something that nobody would have thought 10/15 years ago, and now selling they have 2 over performer at 4mil and almost 3mil respectively while the second released game in the series is at 2mil. You can't expect perpetual growth for every franchise.
Linkstrikesback
Bounty Hunter
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- He
You don't need perpetual growth, but there's a chance that Engage is likely to be the worst selling new game (i.e. sans remakes) in 15 years, despite the Switch working wonders for many franchises, including fire emblem.That shouldn't even be in the discussion. This could, and should have been another Awakening like breakthrough for the series, and you can be sure as heck that if they'd followed up Awakening by dropping a bunch of things that made the game popular, and taking a sales hit with it, there would be a bunch of questions about what in earth they were thinking there too.
Any series that has a breakthrough only to fall back hard to before that, is one that needs to do serious self reflection. Engage dropping all pretense of having a worthwhile story and characters that went right back to being paper thin caricatures, was clearly a collosal mistake.
Kartina
theprocessbroke
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You're right on that front, but I don't think it's a big deal overall. Fire emblem as a series always tried something new every 2 to 3 games, the fact that the underperformed means that they'll reevaluate what worked and what didn't for the next mainline series and try something new again. Just like fates was an evolution of awakening style and Threehouses an evolution of echoes style I could see the next fire emblem as an evolution of engage, with maybe a less garish character design and story but we'll see. They could also go for a completely different style if the fe4 remake rumours are true.
My point is that fire emblem as a series can afford some missteps and more experimenting to see what works and what doesn't especially because it's now a consistent 2mil seller.
And I don't think any game could have been an even bigger breakthrough than Threehouses, not in the same console and not in the magnitude of awakening growth, reminder that fates is over awakening because they're counting 3 games in 1, I don't think fates saw a real growth from awakening.
Revolsin
Moblin
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it's such a strange sample of a mostly outsourced game hard outperforming a pure inhouse one.
and we do have to acknowledge the writing in the series has been lacking for a while, 3H was just an exception. Awakening was okay at best and Fates was just awful outright. in some ways even worse than Engage. the writing staff at IS really needs some outside help
and we do have to acknowledge the writing in the series has been lacking for a while, 3H was just an exception. Awakening was okay at best and Fates was just awful outright. in some ways even worse than Engage. the writing staff at IS really needs some outside help
Personally speaking, I'm having a hard time justifying buying 3 as I havent finished 1 or 2 yet. As I've read somewhere before, it might be time to at least market the games as stand alone. The impresion I got was that 3 is a continuation and Im not ready for that yet.
Kaka
Shriekbat
Sometimes it feels like some posters are shareholders or something lol It has to be growth, growth, growth.
We live in a world where :
- every Fire Emblem games have sold at least 1 million units for the past 10 years, spinoffs and remakes included. That is 7 games with the average sales being 2M for mainline games, 1M for spinoffs and remake and 4M for peak sales
-Splatoon is now a 10M seller at minimum and a cultural phenomenon in Japan
-every Xenoblade games will likely sell at least 2M
Just to name the ones that are often brought up as flop or something. Because for many Nintendo IPs it also apply.
MilkyChance
Cappy
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- they/them
My mistake, I've seen it on sale a few times before.
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
IS will likely take lessons from Engage on what about it to carry forward for later games. They intentionally made a game very different from Three Houses and, to hear it from the devs, it was an attempt at expanding the audience, and arguably, that didn't happen.
That being said, it's still one of the better selling entries and part of the current normal for Fire Emblem that arrived with Awakening, so while it didn't do Three Houses numbers it still performed to standards.
So it didn't bomb in any sense, but it probably didn't expand the audience like IS was hoping for (and ironically, Three Houses expanded the audience far more).
That being said, it's still one of the better selling entries and part of the current normal for Fire Emblem that arrived with Awakening, so while it didn't do Three Houses numbers it still performed to standards.
So it didn't bomb in any sense, but it probably didn't expand the audience like IS was hoping for (and ironically, Three Houses expanded the audience far more).
I don’t think IS ever indicated they wanted Engage to expand the audience? Granted I’m not up to snuff with my FE news, but IIRC Engage was very much a passion project.
Xorhan
Magical Girls <3
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Sorry to be anal about this, but the bolded isn't wholly correct since TMS #FE failed to reach 1 million units sold. Maybe it did if you combine both the Wii U version and Encore sales, but considering that neither version even reached 100k units sold in their first week I sincerely doubt that.
It's something that doesn't really impact your overall point and considering that you only counted 7 games you evidently only counted the Warriors games as "the spin-offs", and TMS is more of its own thing so I can see why you didn't count it.
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that IS thought that Engage was going to expand the series' audience.
I think most casual fans just saw Marth and the other past protagonist and thought "Oh this is something more geared toward the long-time fans". At the very least that was the thought process of some of my friends after they saw the first trailer for the game.
I do share your hope for IS to learn the right lessons both from Engage and Three Houses. While I preferred the latter over the former, both games have things to learn from each other.
I would honestly prefer it if they could take more development time if it meant that every aspect of the next game is fully ironed out, in the meantime they could still release remakes and spin-offs so that the series could maintain a constant presence.
The co-producer of the game said this in a Nintendo Dream interview:
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
I think that IS was really hoping for another Awakening. Or rather, hoping that another fanservice/nostalgia-heavy game with colorful characters and simplistic story would draw in new players like Awakening did. But FE in general is in a much better place these days than it was prior to Awakening and that lightning in a bottle approach isn't likely to work twice.
Gotcha. In that regard Engage certainly did not hit the mark. They’ll obviously have to take more lessons from 3H.
Common Knowledge
Bob-omb
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FE is a weird franchise to be relying on nostalgic fan service so much. Like Engage’s second most prominent Emblem was Sigurd, whose game still has yet to be released in the West in any way, shape, or form. Likewise, Marth himself is more or less still viewed as “ the guy from Smash” rather than any sort of nostalgic attachment to his actual game. I don’t know if things are vastly different in Japan in this regard, but from a western perspective, it’s strange to see so much reliance on the past for a series that never rose to prominence until a little over 10 years ago.
Hopefully Three Houses’ success relative to Engage has showed them that they can’t rely on such gimmicks to appeal to wide audiences. They need a good story with a cast of original and memorable characters that people like to talk about. Engage’s gameplay was pretty good, but it’s clear that they need “the complete package” when it comes to FE games. Story and characters matter just as much to a large amount of the fan base.
Hopefully Three Houses’ success relative to Engage has showed them that they can’t rely on such gimmicks to appeal to wide audiences. They need a good story with a cast of original and memorable characters that people like to talk about. Engage’s gameplay was pretty good, but it’s clear that they need “the complete package” when it comes to FE games. Story and characters matter just as much to a large amount of the fan base.
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
Just for context, Marth, of course, has the status as the OG Fire Emblem protagonist. Sigurd's game is historically one of the best-selling entries if not the best selling entry prior to Awakening, and its story and characters carry a lot of nostalgia for Japanese audiences.
Engage was also originally meant to be a title celebrating the franchise's thirtieth anniversary in 2020, but COVID completely screwed that up.
Instro
Like Like
Stuff like Engage, XB3, Splatoon 3, etc., should generally be expected to sell less tbh. Besides the typical issue of being late life sequels, they released at a time when economically people are being more choosy about what games they purchase, which hit all publishers over the last 12-18 months. That said, it will be interesting to see what the return of the voucher program does for their legs. That was almost certainly a response to weakening game sales in NA.
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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I must be getting old. The day titles selling over a million being called flops astounds me. I remember when a million an was astronomical success.
Revolsin
Moblin
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it just seems very strange by concept. like 3H itself was very much the "expand our audience" game, Engage seems more like a "lets get our original audience here" appeal wise
Charamiwa
Bob-omb
Engage came out relatively quickly after Three Houses (less than four years, pretty good nowadays) and if we believe the rumors they have more ready to go soon. If they're able to keep dev time low and release games at a good pace, it's not a big deal if you don't see constant growth. In a way Engage felt less ambitious than previous games, more compact, so 2 million (eventually) just shows how healthy the franchise is, on to the next one.
Where there can be a failure for IS, is in misreading their audience when it comes to who a game like Engage was supposed to be serving. If you read interviews at release, their goal with the game was to make something simpler, more like a colorful adventure akin to a JRPG instead of a big geopolitical intrigue. They said the game was going to appeal to a larger audience because it's more casual to pick up and play. I don't think that worked out.
To them, it seemed that they thought Three Houses = serious, dense and complicated = limited audience. Engage = colorful, lighthearted, straightforward = wide audience. I think that's a misreading of the FE audience and who it appeals to.
Where there can be a failure for IS, is in misreading their audience when it comes to who a game like Engage was supposed to be serving. If you read interviews at release, their goal with the game was to make something simpler, more like a colorful adventure akin to a JRPG instead of a big geopolitical intrigue. They said the game was going to appeal to a larger audience because it's more casual to pick up and play. I don't think that worked out.
To them, it seemed that they thought Three Houses = serious, dense and complicated = limited audience. Engage = colorful, lighthearted, straightforward = wide audience. I think that's a misreading of the FE audience and who it appeals to.
Rampo360
Bob-omb
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Skyward doesn't deserve better imo. And the HD version was low effort. I'm happy it didn't take off. Almost regret buying it. At least I beat it and enjoyed the dungeons.
- Pronouns
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I was going to say, I always found it weird that he said that about Engage when it's so heavily reliant on Emblems and past entries in the series - not that you need to have played them by any means, but that's a big part of the appeal, otherwise the Emblems just don't hit as hard. It's an anniversary game, celebrating the series' history and has a lot of references and fanservice for longtime fans; that's definitely not what I would call a "bring in new fans who've never played a FE game before" kind of game.
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Hailinel
Musou Mania!
Discussion around Engage is kind of hilarious to me. I think the most common and generally least hot takes regarding Engage is that the gameplay is excellent, but the story is way too basic and the characters largely don't hit like past casts.
And then you'll see YouTubers crowing one week that Engage is a "return to form" for the series and then the next week they're wondering why no one is talking about it. People are of course talking about Engage, but it didn't cultivate a Three Houses-style zeitgeist, largely owing to the paper-thin narrative and setting. No one outside of people that consider Fates Conquest the epitome of FE game design really have the context for it being a return to form, either.
Engage is a game that rings the bell for a subset of existing FE fans, but is generally so lacking in several regards that it was just never going to hit the same way for most existing fans, much less be inviting to newcomers.
I enjoyed how Engage plays personally, and if we were discussing ranking the games strictly by gameplay, I'd put it among the top. But factoring in the story and characters drags that ranking down like an anchor.
LegendofLex
Cappy
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I wonder if the real meaning is somewhere in the middle: they wanted Engage to help onboard their new fans to the characters in the series, so they could expand the appeal of those games. (They will inevitably be remade/emulated on current and future platforms.)
byDoS
Tektite
I said mainline, though...
Mekanos
300 Years Of Gyudon
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I get what you mean (I still wouldn’t use the term flop), OOT selling 7 million was a huge hit and a game changer whereas if TOTK only sold 7 million it would be seen as a disaster. Console market has changed a lot in the last 15ish years.
Unfortunately with game dev budgets continuing to rise I fear for the future of some more niche series, if they get to a point where they can’t break even on 1-2 million units sold.
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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I really hope Advance Wars was cheap enough to make that it made back its money and justifies future work.
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What counts as mainline?
Everything except Link's Crossbow Training.
byDoS
Tektite
And Cadance of Hyrule...
And Hyrule Warriors (all of them)...
And Zelda Tetra's Trackers...
And the Tingle game...
And Four Swords adventures...
So games that don't make a meaningful difference in the sales figures?
I guess maybe Hyrule Warriors did well, I don't know, it doesn't seem like an important distinction.
