AegisField
Rattata
Splatoon 3 and XC3 performed well.Xenoblade 3, Splatoon 3 and Engage are not flops christ
Engage may not be able to match Three Houses' lifetime sales, but by my standards it's still not bad.
Splatoon 3 and XC3 performed well.Xenoblade 3, Splatoon 3 and Engage are not flops christ
Cool. A flop indeedThis post though. A well deserved flop honestly.
mario wonder first week salesJesus Christ.
The plumber should be thankful he has his karting pastime, because there’s genuinely a chance mainline Zelda has become a bigger juggernaut than mainline Mario.
Like… I don’t see Wonder outdoing this. It’s going to soar past Odyssey too, we haven’t even hit its first holiday.
You can’t even make the Wonder will outleg it argument, because BotW is an extremely leggy title
I won't dismiss your opinion outright because that's obviously subjective, but compared to what? All the other Mario games on the list are either platformers or multiplayer spinoffs, both of which are much more popular and evergreen than your typical JRPG (or hybrid action-adventure RPG whatever you want to call it). It's already the second best-selling game without the clear launch window benefits that Super Paper Mario had and will continue closing that gap. In its third year since launch, what would you expect it to be selling annually?
Some takeaways here.
TotK may be behind BotW a bit with 18 million units. But it sold at a huge $70 price point.
In terms of revenue, the two are pretty close. Especially since BotW has been on sale for both retailers and on the eshop too. Tears of the Kingdom has made over 1.2 billion dollars in revenue.
Breath of the Wild is closing around 1.8 billion dollars in revenue. And that's assuming each copy sold for $60, which we know isn't the case.
TotK is a bonafied cash cow.
Also, I gotta say, FE Engage was an absolutely huge flop. I see why they just kicked the DLC out the door, and it seems like Xenoblade 3 underperformed.
I am really glad to see FE engage flop, and Three Houses going strong. And Xenoblade 2 going strong too. It still retains a really good future for both franchises. But Xenoblade 3's underperformance is puzzling considering how universally lauded it is.
FE Engage though. A well deserved flop honestly.
Funny you should say that...I just finished reading a 1.6M word fanfic about Three Houses recently...and that kind of is inspiring me to write my own...Yeah it's something about the characters and the sheer volatile situation where no one has the full idea of what's going on that really lends itself to fanfic and what ifs.I do love seeing Three Houses continue to leg it out all these years post release. The fact that it’s still selling this well and that the community is continuing to pump out fanfiction and fanart shows just how much people connected with it. Really, over 4 million is getting pretty close to what Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest sell at this point.
Was it An Eagle Among Lions?Funny you should say that...I just finished reading a 1.6M word fanfic about Three Houses recently...and that kind of is inspiring me to write my own...Yeah it's something about the characters and the sheer volatile situation where no one has the full idea of what's going on that really lends itself to fanfic and what ifs.
yep...I lost a grand total of 9 days devouring that...Was it An Eagle Among Lions?
Yeah, this. It probably didn’t quite meet expectations, but that’s a long way from ‘flop’ when it’s still in the upper tier of the franchise.You could probably say FE Engage underperformed, but flop is a strong word - it's still the #4 best selling FE and has a chance to enter top 3 (a small chance, but a chance nonetheless).
Definitely not. I'm not even sure Xeno 2 will get there.Will XC3 reach 3 million sales?
I hardly think so according to the experience I got from XCDE, XC2, & XC3.
Some takeaways here.
TotK may be behind BotW a bit with 18 million units. But it sold at a huge $70 price point.
In terms of revenue, the two are pretty close. Especially since BotW has been on sale for both retailers and on the eshop too. Tears of the Kingdom has made over 1.2 billion dollars in revenue.
Breath of the Wild is closing around 1.8 billion dollars in revenue. And that's assuming each copy sold for $60, which we know isn't the case.
Also, I gotta say, FE Engage was an absolutely huge flop. I see why they just kicked the DLC out the door, and it seems like Xenoblade 3 underperformed.
I am really glad to see FE engage flop, and Three Houses going strong. And Xenoblade 2 going strong too. It still retains a really good future for both franchises. But Xenoblade 3's underperformance is puzzling considering how universally lauded it is.
FE Engage though. A well deserved flop honestly.
Will XC3 reach 3 million sales?
I hardly think so according to the experience I got from XCDE, XC2, & XC3.
Personally. I don’t think I’ll say it underperformed.You could probably say FE Engage underperformed, but flop is a strong word - it's still the #4 best selling FE and has a chance to enter top 3 (a small chance, but a chance nonetheless).
Your revenue estimates for the Zelda games are flawed because you're ignoring something that has been already stated in the thread: the $60 -> $70 price increase only applies to the Americas. In Europe BotW was already sold for €70, and in Japan the price increase is so small it's almost negligible.Some takeaways here.
TotK may be behind BotW a bit with 18 million units. But it sold at a huge $70 price point.
In terms of revenue, the two are pretty close. Especially since BotW has been on sale for both retailers and on the eshop too. Tears of the Kingdom has made over 1.2 billion dollars in revenue.
Breath of the Wild is closing around 1.8 billion dollars in revenue. And that's assuming each copy sold for $60, which we know isn't the case.
TotK is a bonafied cash cow.
Also, I gotta say, FE Engage was an absolutely huge flop. I see why they just kicked the DLC out the door, and it seems like Xenoblade 3 underperformed.
I am really glad to see FE engage flop, and Three Houses going strong. And Xenoblade 2 going strong too. It still retains a really good future for both franchises. But Xenoblade 3's underperformance is puzzling considering how universally lauded it is.
FE Engage though. A well deserved flop honestly.
Yes, that's a good analysis. XC3 is not showing particularly good legs, although the release of Future Redeemed boosted it for a while back when it released. Someone else mentioned that the initial overshipment might be hiding some of its legs, and while that's certainly true to some degree, its eShop listings didn't point to particularly good legs after its launch window. Still, it will be over 2M at the next CESA update, and I wouldn't discount its chance of reaching 2.5M if the game receives a 4K patch during the launch window of Switch 2, and one of its characters is added to the next Smash game, and/or if the next game in the franchise is highly successful and is able to reinvigorate sales of its predecessors for a while.If anyone is interested, I wrote out some pretty lengthy thoughts on Install Base about Xenoblade 2's legs.
To talk a bit about this, first of all Xenoblade 3 performed really well, it had the best launch of any Xeno game, and 1.84 M in its first year is nothing to scoff at, many Japanse RPGs would love to end there. The issue is, it has severely slowed down since its explosive launch. It is still technically selling faster than the other games launch aligned, but that is entirely because of its massive launch. The more concerning point is, since it's launch of 1.72 million units, it has only moved 140K more since then as of March 2023. By comparison, Definitive Edition sold 200K in 2022, 2 years after its launch, and Xenoblade 2 sold 260K in 2022, 5 years after its launch. Leaving the launches aside, Xenoblade 3 seems to have already fallen below Xenoblade 2's ongoing sales legs, and it is very unlikely to be able to catch it again if current trends continue.
This right here. Three Houses had an element of zeitgeist about it. People went nuts for that particular game and its characters, and word of mouth was very strong. Engage was basically brought back to the level of sales established by Awakening, which is still pretty high for the series overall.Personally. I don’t think I’ll say it underperformed.
I do think Three Houses Vastly over-performed. Fire emblem never had a 3 million seller, fates really doesn’t count cause of how Nintendo counts it, but it blew past that and it could end up at 5 million in a slow crawl.
I think it's funny how if a sequel doesn't outsell the biggest game in their franchise is considered a flop. The insane success of the switch has completely warped the way people look at sales performance.
I'll just say that both xenoblade and fire emblem becoming consistent 2mil+ series is something that nobody would have thought 10/15 years ago, and now selling they have 2 over performer at 4mil and almost 3mil respectively while the second released game in the series is at 2mil. You can't expect perpetual growth for every franchise.
You're right on that front, but I don't think it's a big deal overall. Fire emblem as a series always tried something new every 2 to 3 games, the fact that the underperformed means that they'll reevaluate what worked and what didn't for the next mainline series and try something new again. Just like fates was an evolution of awakening style and Threehouses an evolution of echoes style I could see the next fire emblem as an evolution of engage, with maybe a less garish character design and story but we'll see. They could also go for a completely different style if the fe4 remake rumours are true.You don't need perpetual growth, but there's a chance that Engage is likely to be the worst selling new game (i.e. sans remakes) in 15 years, despite the Switch working wonders for many franchises, including fire emblem.That shouldn't even be in the discussion. This could, and should have been another Awakening like breakthrough for the series, and you can be sure as heck that if they'd followed up Awakening by dropping a bunch of things that made the game popular, and taking a sales hit with it, there would be a bunch of questions about what in earth they were thinking there too.
Any series that has a breakthrough only to fall back hard to before that, is one that needs to do serious self reflection. Engage dropping all pretense of having a worthwhile story and characters that went right back to being paper thin caricatures, was clearly a collosal mistake.
I am really glad to see FE engage flop, and Three Houses going strong. And Xenoblade 2 going strong too. It still retains a really good future for both franchises. But Xenoblade 3's underperformance is puzzling considering how universally lauded it is.
Sometimes it feels like some posters are shareholders or something lol It has to be growth, growth, growth.I think it's funny how if a sequel doesn't outsell the biggest game in their franchise is considered a flop. The insane success of the switch has completely warped the way people look at sales performance.
I'll just say that both xenoblade and fire emblem becoming consistent 2mil+ series is something that nobody would have thought 10/15 years ago, and now selling they have 2 over performer at 4mil and almost 3mil respectively while the second released game in the series is at 2mil. You can't expect perpetual growth for every franchise.
My mistake, I've seen it on sale a few times before.It had a price cut? Where?
I don’t think IS ever indicated they wanted Engage to expand the audience? Granted I’m not up to snuff with my FE news, but IIRC Engage was very much a passion project.So it didn't bomb in any sense, but it probably didn't expand the audience like IS was hoping for
Sorry to be anal about this, but the bolded isn't wholly correct since TMS #FE failed to reach 1 million units sold. Maybe it did if you combine both the Wii U version and Encore sales, but considering that neither version even reached 100k units sold in their first week I sincerely doubt that.Sometimes it feels like some posters are shareholders or something lol It has to be growth, growth, growth.
We live in a world where :
- every Fire Emblem games have sold at least 1 million units for the past 10 years, spinoffs and remakes included. That is 7 games with the average sales being 2M for mainline games, 1M for spinoffs and remake and 4M for peak sales
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that IS thought that Engage was going to expand the series' audience.IS will likely take lessons from Engage on what about it to carry forward for later games. They intentionally made a game very different from Three Houses and, to hear it from the devs, it was an attempt at expanding the audience, and arguably, that didn't happen.
That being said, it's still one of the better selling entries and part of the current normal for Fire Emblem that arrived with Awakening, so while it didn't do Three Houses numbers it still performed to standards.
So it didn't bomb in any sense, but it probably didn't expand the audience like IS was hoping for (and ironically, Three Houses expanded the audience far more).
The co-producer of the game said this in a Nintendo Dream interview:I don’t think IS ever indicated they wanted Engage to expand the audience? Granted I’m not up to snuff with my FE news, but IIRC Engage was very much a passion project.
The last game, Three Houses, was planned with the idea of making an adult war chronicle. On the other hand, Engage was made with the idea of broadening our audience, such that even people who have never tried FE would want to pick it up. It’s been over 10 years since Awakening, so we also thought of making another FE that would appeal to a wide audience.
I think that IS was really hoping for another Awakening. Or rather, hoping that another fanservice/nostalgia-heavy game with colorful characters and simplistic story would draw in new players like Awakening did. But FE in general is in a much better place these days than it was prior to Awakening and that lightning in a bottle approach isn't likely to work twice.Sorry to be anal about this, but the bolded isn't wholly correct since TMS #FE failed to reach 1 million units sold. Maybe it did if you combine both the Wii U version and Encore sales, but considering that neither version even reached 100k units sold in their first week I sincerely doubt that.
It's something that doesn't really impact your overall point and considering that you only counted 7 games you evidently only counted the Warriors games as "the spin-offs", and TMS is more of its own thing so I can see why you didn't count it.
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that IS thought that Engage was going to expand the series' audience.
I think most casual fans just saw Marth and the other past protagonist and thought "Oh this is something more geared toward the long-time fans". At the very least that was the thought process of some of my friends after they saw the first trailer for the game.
I do share your hope for IS to learn the right lessons both from Engage and Three Houses. While I preferred the latter over the former, both games have things to learn from each other.
I would honestly prefer it if they could take more development time if it meant that every aspect of the next game is fully ironed out, in the meantime they could still release remakes and spin-offs so that the series could maintain a constant presence.
The co-producer of the game said this in a Nintendo Dream interview:
Gotcha. In that regard Engage certainly did not hit the mark. They’ll obviously have to take more lessons from 3H.The co-producer of the game said this in a Nintendo Dream interview
Just for context, Marth, of course, has the status as the OG Fire Emblem protagonist. Sigurd's game is historically one of the best-selling entries if not the best selling entry prior to Awakening, and its story and characters carry a lot of nostalgia for Japanese audiences.FE is a weird franchise to be relying on nostalgic fan service so much. Like Engage’s second most prominent Emblem was Sigurd, whose game still has yet to be released in the West in any way, shape, or form. Likewise, Marth himself is more or less still viewed as “ the guy from Smash” rather than any sort of nostalgic attachment to his actual game. I don’t know if things are vastly different in Japan in this regard, but from a western perspective, it’s strange to see so much reliance on the past for a series that never rose to prominence until a little over 10 years ago.
Hopefully Three Houses’ success relative to Engage has showed them that they can’t rely on such gimmicks to appeal to wide audiences. They need a good story with a cast of original and memorable characters that people like to talk about. Engage’s gameplay was pretty good, but it’s clear that they need “the complete package” when it comes to FE games. Story and characters matter just as much to a large amount of the fan base.
Gotcha. In that regard Engage certainly did not hit the mark. They’ll obviously have to take more lessons from 3H.
Skyward doesn't deserve better imo. And the HD version was low effort. I'm happy it didn't take off. Almost regret buying it. At least I beat it and enjoyed the dungeons.It's crazy that NSMB U can be at 16 mil while legacy Zelda like Skyward Sword sits at 4 mil.
It's not a bad number, and maybe Skyward Sword just has a mixed vibe around it... but idk. Hoping for more numbers when TP and WW release.
I was going to say, I always found it weird that he said that about Engage when it's so heavily reliant on Emblems and past entries in the series - not that you need to have played them by any means, but that's a big part of the appeal, otherwise the Emblems just don't hit as hard. It's an anniversary game, celebrating the series' history and has a lot of references and fanservice for longtime fans; that's definitely not what I would call a "bring in new fans who've never played a FE game before" kind of game.it just seems very strange by concept. like 3H itself was very much the "expand our audience" game, Engage seems more like a "lets get our original audience here" appeal wise
Discussion around Engage is kind of hilarious to me. I think the most common and generally least hot takes regarding Engage is that the gameplay is excellent, but the story is way too basic and the characters largely don't hit like past casts.I was going to say, I always found it weird that he said that about Engage when it's so heavily reliant on Emblems and past entries in the series - not that you need to have played them by any means, but that's a big part of the appeal, otherwise the Emblems just don't hit as hard. It's an anniversary game, celebrating the series' history and has a lot of references and fanservice for longtime fans; that's definitely not what I would call a "bring in new fans who've never played a FE game before" kind of game.
I wonder if the real meaning is somewhere in the middle: they wanted Engage to help onboard their new fans to the characters in the series, so they could expand the appeal of those games. (They will inevitably be remade/emulated on current and future platforms.)it just seems very strange by concept. like 3H itself was very much the "expand our audience" game, Engage seems more like a "lets get our original audience here" appeal wise
Excluding BOTW and TOTK, the Zelda series has sold around 100m units, and all of those games were released within a 30 year time period, so 3 decades isn't quite right. But your point certainly still stands.
I get what you mean (I still wouldn’t use the term flop), OOT selling 7 million was a huge hit and a game changer whereas if TOTK only sold 7 million it would be seen as a disaster. Console market has changed a lot in the last 15ish years.I must be getting old. The day titles selling over a million being called flops astounds me. I remember when a million an was astronomical success.
I really hope Advance Wars was cheap enough to make that it made back its money and justifies future work.I get what you mean (I still wouldn’t use the term flop), OOT selling 7 million was a huge hit and a game changer whereas if TOTK only sold 7 million it would be seen as a disaster. Console market has changed a lot in the last 15ish years.
Unfortunately with game dev budgets continuing to rise I fear for the future of some more niche series, if they get to a point where they can’t break even on 1-2 million units sold.
What counts as mainline?I said mainline, though...
Everything except Link's Crossbow Training.What counts as mainline?
Everything except Link's Crossbow Training.
So games that don't make a meaningful difference in the sales figures?And Cadance of Hyrule...
And Hyrule Warriors (all of them)...
And Zelda Tetra's Trackers...
And the Tingle game...
And Four Swords adventures...