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There often are. Anytime you put in a game cart for the first time and a download starts it's because of thisThere is patch prior to official release?
There often are. Anytime you put in a game cart for the first time and a download starts it's because of thisThere is patch prior to official release?
Sounds like today's patch improved docked and handheld performance a lot. Any more news on that front? Has anyone here watched streams and could confirm?
I don’t even know how to mark this spoiler, so I’ll just say up front this question is regarding an aspect of the “world” that would almost certainly be considered a spoiler to most, so click at your own risk:
How much visual variety can we expect in the underground?
Is there a loading screen when traveling from the surface to the underworld?
not sure on the first, and no loading screen
Have you seen any of the underground areas? If so, what’s your general impressions?
I think Breath of the Wild was neat, but Tears of the Kingdom seems to tickle the right bones for me in regards to what I missed in BotW. I know almost nothing still which is great (other than official trailers and some of the questions I asked) but otherwise a lot will be a good surprise .I like hearing from people who didn’t like BotW as much say they really like TOTK.
So I very intentionally haven't touched BotW since finding out this game was re-using the map, but does any save data carry over? Is there stuff I can do in BotW to impact TotK? I think the only things I haven't done are get all Korok seeds and finish the Master Sword trials.
What would you guys think about art direction in TOTK? Enemy design, character design, map and location design, boss design, do you think they delivered?
Non spoiler answers please
This is literally the first time I've seen someone call BotW "overly wordy and convoluted" and I'm probably not the only one.For someone who prefers the leaner side of Zelda stories like ALBW, LA, MM and OoT to the grand and epic, yet overly wordy and (to me) convoluted side like BotW, but mainly SS and TP - where does TotK fall? More of that, or has the storytelling been streamlined?
TotK looks very "maximalist" from what I've seen so narratively I'm anticipating another Lots Of Big Words Salad.
^are you even going to play the game because you might as well let someone tell you everything about the game?
For BotW it's mainly the writing style - so much of it feels like fluff. SS and TP have this fluffy writing as well, and also a lot of it.This is literally the first time I've seen someone call BotW "overly wordy and convoluted" and I'm probably not the only one.
For BotW it's mainly the writing style - so much of it feels like fluff. SS and TP have this fluffy writing as well, and also a lot of it.
My hope is that they wrote a more interesting story in a more concise way, something the examples I gave succeeded at.
Ignored this thread for a bit but I heard about things I'm really curious about
Is it true that BotW/TotK are a hard reboot for the timeline? Yes/No/It's complicated
Its complicated. I’m sure some will try to squeeze it in, but it’s absolutely clear they didn’t care about fitting it in
Bro called the best Zelda story one of the leaner ones.For someone who prefers the leaner side of Zelda stories like ALBW, LA, MM and OoT to the grand and epic, yet overly wordy and (to me) convoluted side like BotW, but mainly SS and TP - where does TotK fall? More of that, or has the storytelling been streamlined?
TotK looks very "maximalist" from what I've seen so narratively I'm anticipating another Lots Of Big Words Salad.
One last question for me - can I get any confirmation that the art book leak didn’t cover a vast amount of the contents of the game Nintendo didn’t officially reveal?
I already knew that we can bring horses from botw to totk. Question is can we bring epona too? And is there other bonuses?
Bro called the best Zelda story one of the leaner ones.
How are MM and OoT lean on story?
im going to personally have to disagree with pretty much the entire second paragraph but cool.I really don't think that they mean 'non-existent' by saying they are lean. I think they mean just that - lean, no fat. The stories are clear and direct and told with only as much dialogue as necessary, and they aren't bogged down by overly wordy or unnecessary dialogue. They're efficient, and also much more to my taste personally, as I really don't think simply having 'more' story is an instant recipe for success if that story isn't told elegantly. Lean is definitely not a negative label.
If you want a really good example of this distinction, Resonant Arc has a great video on the Triangle Strategy demo where partway through they compare the dialogue (and more specifically the amount of dialogue) between the early hours of Final Fantasy Tactics and Triangle Strategy, and I think it's very easy to see how much more clear and concise the writing is in Tactics vs a lot of more contemporary games that are going for a similar style. Tactics is snappier, paced better, and what I would call very lean.
My point is that I think most people will disagree with your assessment of BotW so it's going to be difficult to give you a conclusive comparison to TotK. Aside from the two loredumps at the beginning of the game (by Rhoam and Impa) I'd say that most of BotW is pretty sparse in terms of writing.For BotW it's mainly the writing style - so much of it feels like fluff. SS and TP have this fluffy writing as well, and also a lot of it.
My hope is that they wrote a more interesting story in a more concise way, something the examples I gave succeeded at.
Yep, Nintendo stories work best when they're informed by the gameplay and written succinctly. Ocarina, Majora and ALBW all have narratives that underscore their gameplay hook. Skyward Sword by contrast tries to tell a conventional story and kinda falls flat, and Breath of the Wild tries to be minimal with it's story but it's narrative ends up meandering in the little time it has.I get what you're saying. The other games you mentioned have just about as much depth to their story as Breath of the Wild, but far leaner execution.
That said, I personally think they've aged better not because I prefer that style of storytelling, but because Nintendo doesn't have the capabilities, and/or isn't willing to invest in storytelling in Zelda in a way that its AAA contemporaries do. So when they do try, it just feels kind of bad? I'd rather they take the quiet and mysterious approach to story rather than a cheap and amateur one.
Very curious how I'll feel with Tears of the Kingdom. I do enjoy Monolithsoft's capabilities in that space with the Xenoblade games, even if it can be a bit camp or 'anime' as some say, and it seems they're only increasing their footprint on the Zelda development. The Champion's Ballad DLC cutscenes were shallow but very fun, and a step up from the base game. I hope they're an indication of the quality here.
Final Fantasy VI and VII are good examples of efficient writing as well. My go-to example remains Ocarina - maybe it's Miyamoto's direction, but that narrative is incredibly resonant while using relatively few text boxes.I really don't think that they mean 'non-existent' by saying they are lean. I think they mean just that - lean, no fat. The stories are clear and direct and told with only as much dialogue as necessary, and they aren't bogged down by overly wordy or unnecessary dialogue. They're efficient, and also much more to my taste personally, as I really don't think simply having 'more' story is an instant recipe for success if that story isn't told elegantly. Lean is definitely not a negative label.
If you want a really good example of this distinction, Resonant Arc has a great video on the Triangle Strategy demo where partway through they compare the dialogue (and more specifically the amount of dialogue) between the early hours of Final Fantasy Tactics and Triangle Strategy, and I think it's very easy to see how much more clear and concise the writing is in Tactics vs a lot of more contemporary games that are going for a similar style. Tactics is snappier, paced better, and what I would call very lean.
Might be better if I'd drop this because this is derailing the thread, but just to clarify: this is not about the amount of story, but about the way it's told.My point is that I think most people will disagree with your assessment of BotW so it's going to be difficult to give you a conclusive comparison to TotK. Aside from the two loredumps at the beginning of the game (by Rhoam and Impa) I'd say that most of BotW is pretty sparse in terms of writing.
"Lean" as in elegant.Bro called the best Zelda story one of the leaner ones.
How are MM and OoT lean on story?
I understand your point, I just disagree with it.Might be better if I'd drop this because this is derailing the thread, but just to clarify: this is not about the amount of story, but about the way it's told.
BotW has little story, I agree. My point is: the story moments it does have are often squandered by meandering writing. So I'm hoping TotK has a script that's had a few rewrites for clarity.
This is a terrible comparison because both games are doing completely different things with their characters and narrative. TS needs the player to have a much deeper understanding of it's world and characters because there are key moments in the game where the player needs to determine the outcome of what the party does by influencing the votes of your allies. FFT doesn't do these things because it's a linear game with a single route. You can prefer FFT to TS (I do, though I think both are great) but they're trying to do completely different things narratively and mechanically.If you want a really good example of this distinction, Resonant Arc has a great video on the Triangle Strategy demo where partway through they compare the dialogue (and more specifically the amount of dialogue) between the early hours of Final Fantasy Tactics and Triangle Strategy, and I think it's very easy to see how much more clear and concise the writing is in Tactics vs a lot of more contemporary games that are going for a similar style. Tactics is snappier, paced better, and what I would call very lean.
I haven't seen people talking about it : are there any references to Skyward Sword in TotK? People speculated that releasing Skyward Sword HD between BotW and TotK would make sense considering the sky islands.
that's the trouble of writing dialogue that isn't voiced for so long. Nintendo never really knew how to do that.For BotW it's mainly the writing style - so much of it feels like fluff. SS and TP have this fluffy writing as well, and also a lot of it.
My hope is that they wrote a more interesting story in a more concise way, something the examples I gave succeeded at.
If Age of Calamity and Mercer's interpretation of Ganondorf is what we have to hope for I'm definitely team "let's not do cutscenes at all actually".I'm hoping Nintendo learned a LOT from Age of Calamity. Just how to direct and coordinate VAs (and especially how to score them!!) Matt Mercer seems to be bringing it and Zelda sounds better this time around, at least judging by the trailers.
Matt Mercer's Ganondorf is great from the clips we've seenIf Age of Calamity and Mercer's interpretation of Ganondorf is what we have to hope for I'm definitely team "let's not do cutscenes at all actually".
Well-written classic PC games tangent:Modern games are generally much better written than older generation console games. You'll run into older PC games from the same time frame that had quite good writing but on average I feel like people associate simplicity with better writing.
ENG Zelda has improved tremendously. I might prefer her over the Japanese one. Don't think the other English voices work particularly well for me though.that's the trouble of writing dialogue that isn't voiced for so long. Nintendo never really knew how to do that.
I'm hoping Nintendo learned a LOT from Age of Calamity. Just how to direct and coordinate VAs (and especially how to score them!!) Matt Mercer seems to be bringing it and Zelda sounds better this time around, at least judging by the trailers.
I wouldn't mind cutscenes without voice acting - that's one area Skyward Sword did very well.If Age of Calamity and Mercer's interpretation of Ganondorf is what we have to hope for I'm definitely team "let's not do cutscenes at all actually".
As a big fan of the GK games, I think you have a very bias view of the writing/acting in those games, especially GK2.Well-written classic PC games tangent:
did you ever play the classic Gabriel Knight games? I played the New Orleans a while ago, and while that game is ancient by gaming standards, that writing and voice acting hold up so incredibly well. That's a good example of a game going for an elaborate, voice-acted narrative and nailing it... back in the '90s.
For more gameplay-driven titles like the Zeldas and Marios of this world I mainly want the story to a). add context and flavour and b). get out of the way. If they also get something resonant in there, like ALBW did, it's golden to me.
ENG Zelda has improved tremendously. I might prefer her over the Japanese one. Don't think the other English voices work particularly well for me though.
I wouldn't mind cutscenes without voice acting - that's one area Skyward Sword did very well.
As a big fan of the GK games, I think you have a very bias view of the writing/acting in those games, especially GK2.
Unless your brain is wired to "Japanese thing with English dub = bad" I'm not sure how you can straight face say any of the performances from BotW 1 or what we've seen in TotK are worse then the average performance in GK2.
We're also talking about at most 15 minutes of voiced lines across all of BotW (wouldn't be surprised if TotK doubles that to 30 ooh) compared to 9 hours of footage of people talking/acting. Even if I agreed that BotW's performances were bad, I'd rather 15 minutes of bad performances the hours and hours of it.
The original casts some legendary actors like Tim Curry and Mark Hamill in lead roles, and the third even has Jennifer Hale in a major role. Of course this makes the contrast with the weaker performances more glaring in those games. It's a shame the GK games couldn't find that perfect mix of mechanics and acting since GK1 is extremely dated design wise, GK2 has weak FMV acting, and GK3 is extremely cumbersome with infamously bad puzzles (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_hair_mustache_puzzle , yes a puzzle so bad it has it's own article).The one I played was Sins of the Fathers, the pixel art one. Might've been wrong to assume that was the only one set in New Orleans.