Spoiler The Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Postgame & Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Thunder84]

I can’t imagine the DLC will be anything but the Founders. More lore for Aionios, chance to streamline and improve XC3 combat, can be advertised and releases as a standalone title, and Shulk + Rex show up as mentors/heroes. Everything checks out.

 

[Renmazuo]

I can’t imagine the DLC will be anything but the Founders. More lore for Aionios, chance to streamline and improve XC3 combat, can be advertised and releases as a standalone title, and Shulk + Rex show up as mentors/heroes. Everything checks out.

Yeah it's like, there's no real story conductive to gameplay AFTER the ending. Aionios is gone, Ouroboros is gone, the iris and blade system implemented by moebius is gone, there are no villains left* unless they asspull something new.

It is an expansion, not a new game, tons of stuff will have to be recycled and deadlines have to be met. That implies reusing locations, gameplay systems, etc. Plus 4 out of 6 Founders already have designs and even defined fighting styles. It would be a bit odd if they bothered with that stuff for nothing.

*Technically Moebius A is still MIA so unless they randomly skip the first letter of the alphabet or pull a "A is Aionios itself teeheehee" shit it has to appear at some point in the DLC, although maybe as part of the new Hero quests rather than the expansion.

 

[Neverx]

I can’t imagine the DLC will be anything but the Founders. More lore for Aionios, chance to streamline and improve XC3 combat, can be advertised and releases as a standalone title, and Shulk + Rex show up as mentors/heroes. Everything checks out.

I don't know why people want an epilogue I thought that they way ended the main cast, specifically Mio and Noah was perfect as is and don't even know how an epilogue would work, the founders would work best at allowing us to see the casts of 1 and 2 in a new light, Aionios and Moebius lore as well as more on N and M.

 

[Thunder84]

I don't know why people want an epilogue I thought that they way ended the main cast, specifically Mio and Noah was perfect as is and don't even know how an epilogue would work, the founders would work best at allowing us to see the casts of 1 and 2 in a new light, Aionios and Moebius lore as well as more on N and M.

I think a lot of people have come to expect a happy ending out of the main Xenoblade games, so getting a bittersweet ending has them wishing for an epilogue to “correct” that.

Personally, that’s the last thing I’d want. Would be very difficult to write that without it feeling like a retcon fan fiction.

 

[Brewster123]

Yeah the epilogue is 100% going to be a prequel. There really isn't anywhere meaningful for them to go with how the game ended.

 

[Phendrift]

A prequel could clear up a lot of vague Aoinios lore, while a sequel could be the big crossover conclusion of the trilogy and give a direction for the series future (which takahashi implied it would)

Personally I’m fine with either!

 

[MrGab]

Yeah it's like, there's no real story conductive to gameplay AFTER the ending. Aionios is gone, Ouroboros is gone, the iris and blade system implemented by moebius is gone, there are no villains left* unless they asspull something new.

It is an expansion, not a new game, tons of stuff will have to be recycled and deadlines have to be met. That implies reusing locations, gameplay systems, etc. Plus 4 out of 6 Founders already have designs and even defined fighting styles. It would be a bit odd if they bothered with that stuff for nothing.

*Technically Moebius A is still MIA so unless they randomly skip the first letter of the alphabet or pull a "A is Aionios itself teeheehee" shit it has to appear at some point in the DLC, although maybe as part of the new Hero quests rather than the expansion.

The worlds still will go collide, so epilogue could be about the "new Aionios", without keves/agnian war stuff, maybe a new threat/villain appears this time.

 

[DecoReturns]

I don’t Feel a game needs to answer every question. Hell, I don’t think they even need to answer any questions.

But my biggest issue with this game is that it never felt like a time crunch the first chapter set it up to be, plus antagonists that you never felt connected too. I don’t mind Z. It’s his consul and N that failed miserably. Hammy, no development, N completely dependent on Noah, who makes very little case to care for him for a majority of the game, even J was nothing to me. I honestly would’ve love to play as Kevesi kids in a whole chapter. Would’ve helped with J a lot and a lot of other themes.

I honestly expected they would do what Torna and XC2 was originally planned and make you play different characters in different chapters. Flashbacks or different perspectives.


Tho I love the last shot of the game. Never felt it was “a dream”. It felt more like it happened, but it’s returned to normal. Perhaps these two will meet one day.

Also music is 10/10. Might even be better then Xenoblade 2 honestly. But I can’t say that until I listen over the tracks and playthough the story again. I got 5 years of XC2 in my head so lots of bias.

 

[Thunder84]

The worlds still will go collide, so epilogue could be about the "new Aionios", without keves/agnian war stuff, maybe a new threat/villain appears this time.

That’s not really an epilogue though, that’s an entirely new game. And that’s assuming the worlds merge in the first place, my impression was that both worlds would be recreated separately, as they were before.

 

[Renmazuo]

Since I realize my post on the other thread sounded absurdly negative I almost feel like I have to mention some things I liked. I guess it's just easier to vent about things that disappointed you, but I still stand by all of them though. These are just random things coming to mind in no particular order:

I really like playing around and experimenting with the class system. Some real Final Fantasy V vibes from it.

The moebius theme and its variants are easily the best boss music in the series. It's too good for them

The M boss fight has such a cool gimmick, first time it wiped out my party a few times without me even realizing what was going on. Really wish more bosses had their own unique gimmicks and strats like this.

The field dialogue adds a lot of flavor. Hearing Cammuravi happily chat about how lil' Ethel is doing is really something.

The facial expressions have become so good they sometimes genuinely elevate entire scenes. End of chapter 5 and beginning of chapter 6 are good examples.

Triton in general, his character, his quests, his class, everything.

The side content is really damn good, quite possibly the best it's ever been. Though I still have quite a few sidequests left, I've generally enjoyed all the ones I've done.

This one is possibly the most subjective and odd but I really liked Shania. She might even be my favorite villain in the whole thing. The twist you could kinda see coming, whatever, but I thought her plot, character, how she came to this point, what she was wishing for, what they were going for with her were quite good, or at least it resonated with me in ways other characters didn't. She embodies some of the themes of the game just right, as her own character instead of simply becoming a philosophy mouthpiece or something. I just wish she had more screentime but eh, no antagonist in this game has much screentime in the first place, not even the main ones. I'm not saying she's great or anything, and maybe this is my brain in super cope mode but hey, she is the first female antagonist I genuinely like since Miang in Xenogears and that has to count for something. I'll take what I can get.

 

[Phendrift]

Anyways now time for rankings

Characters: 3>2>>>>>>1. 3 and 2 are amazing, I like 1’s characters because I spent a lot of time with them and they’re charming and inoffensive, but 3 & 2 are so much more deep with much better writing

Story: 3>=2>>>1. 2 leaves less questions unanswered and the ending is nigh unbeatable, but 3’s themes resonated with me much more and I found the overall premise more engaging, with Chapter 5/6 being the highlight of the entire series. Both make 1 seem basic, though I still do like it’s story

Battle System: 3=2>>>>1. I don’t have a strong preference between 2 & 3. Highly enjoy both. Prefer the crescendo of building up to a chain attack in 2, but I prefer heroes over blades and love the fusion arts and streamlined gems of 3. 1’s isn’t nearly as satisfying to me

Overall Exploration 3>1>>>2. I hated 2’s map system, it was so confusing and the field skills made me actively not wanna explore. It’s way more fun in 1 & 3. With 3 getting the edge because of meaningful side content to find, which brings me to

Side Content 3>2>>>>1. 2&3 smoke 1 here, with 3 improving even more on 2. Not much else to say, this is pretty obvious imo

Overall 3>2>>1. This makes it seem like I hate 1, but I really just love 2 & 3 and feel they’re more bold and memorable and make 1 seem basic in lots of really important aspects like battle system, side content and characters. Didn’t mention QOL but that also gives the edge to 3.

Edit: Lore/Background 2>>1>>>3. By nature Aoinios won’t be as rich lore wise, though we’ll see what they do with the founders. Prefer 2 to 1 here

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

I just bagged the last hero and I think I’m done. I’ve done all the hero quests, some ascension quests, the main story and some other bits and bobs.

There’s a couple of things that I wouldn’t mind doing, but I don’t think I’ve got it in me to push forward and get them done… at least not now.

I didn’t play a game for a few weeks after I finished XC2. It left a big impact on me and I didn’t want to leave those characters and that world behind. On the flip side, I couldn’t bring myself to continue playing because it did a number on me emotionally - I wanted to preserve the feeling the ending gave me. Jumping back in didn’t feel right on some level.

Of course, I did eventually go back and by the time NG- rolled around a few months after release, I’d more than doubled my playtime.

I yearn for those same feelings with XC3, but they‘re just not there. Instead, I don’t want to leave it behind because it would be admitting to myself, that’s it. What I’ve currently experienced and the feelings it’s left me with… that’s XC3 for me.

I wanted more meaningful connectivity between XC3 and XC and XC2. I didn’t get it and that’s a shame.

But I now look at that expansion pass - and more specifically that teaser image and just wish they wouldn’t bother, so I could just stop caring.

I have a fair few problems with XC3 itself, but it’s the ghosts of those previous games being touted over me in the DLC that means I can’t checkout just yet. And while I’d love nothing more than to see my old friends again, part of me just wants them left alone.

Bah. It’s a bummer, but you live and learn.

 

[EtherPenguin]

After beating the game, the thing that continues to baffle me more than anything is nopons' place in this setting. I keep looking for a quest or some NPC dialogue that'll give an explanation, but when I think I'm close, it just opens more questions. In the affinity chart, the nopon have regular ages and several are over 30 - not just in the City, but colony Nopon too. I just don't understand how characters don't know what aging and birth is with all these nopon around living in the colonies with them.

But Riku and Manana being equally blown away about babies and birth as the party is when you get the City really threw me off. If nopon aren't part of the Iris/rebirth system and age normally beyond 10 years but also don't know what babies are - then how are they reproducing??

So I just did the Uniting the Nopon Smith quest and then we find out Riku is one of the legendary seven smiths. The party's like 'Why didn't you tell us, Riku?' and he's like 'you didn't ask', and they're just like 'yea, alright, that's fair'. Then they go and unite the smiths with Riku, no questions asked.

I've come up with a theory on what's going on. Riku being one of the legendary smiths along with his nod toward Melia has me thinking nopon are just immortal. The nopon in Aionios are frozen at the age they were when Origin booted up and Z took over. So no new nopon are being born nor are they aging over time. As to why they don't tell humans about the truth of the world, I'm still working on that one.

Honestly, I feel like the consuls don't even care if people find out the truth. People are born immediately after they die rather than waiting 10 or so years for anyone who knew them to die. People meeting younger versions of friends they watched die has to have happened plenty of times over the centuries.

 

[Thunder84]

Since everyone else is doing rankings, might as well do my own.

• Story: 1 > 2 > 3 > 2T
  • 1 is easily the least ambitious of the franchise, but it makes up for that with the cleanest execution by a wide margin. 2 and 3 are great too, with their peaks both surpassing 1’s, but it’s just impossible to ignore the flaws in both. 2T pulls up the rear due to its short length and lack of variety, although it doesn’t really hurt the game since the story was never the focus in the first place.
• Lore: 2 > 2T > 1 > 3
  • Everything about 2’s lore is pretty much perfect: the Blades role in society, the politics between nations, all of it. 2T mostly coasts off of what 2 set up, but the added insight into Torna is a nice bonus. 1 doesn’t really have much of anything, but the backstory behind the Machina is convincing enough to land it above the absolute mess that 3’s lore is.
• Side Content: 3 > 2T > 2 > 1
  • 3 takes the standard that 2T set and runs with it, spreading the brilliance of Auresco across the entirety of Aionios. Both games represent some of the best side content in any JRPG, but 3 wins out simply due to the quantity of it compared to 2T. 2 is much messier, with the Blade quests being very hit-or-miss, but it’s still a big step up over 1, which is very uninspired in this area.
• Protagonists: 3 > 2T > 1 > 2
  • 3’s leading characters emulate the maturity of 2T’s, while also injecting the lighthearted youthfulness of 1 and 2 into the mix, resulting in the best of both worlds. 2T comes next due to the aforementioned maturity. 1 then follows due to its simplicity, although it’s still very successful overall. 2 pulls up the rear, with some great characters undermined by their terrible designs, along with some other very obnoxious and borderline offensive quirks.
• Antagonists: 2 > 1 > 2T > 3
  • On the flip side, 2 leads the way with its antagonists, which benefit immensely from the superb lore that I mentioned before. 1 is close behind, with some very strong antagonists maximizing their screen time in the best ways possible, outside of a certain character who shall not be named. 2T is next due to 2 carrying the brunt of Malos and Amalthus’s development. 3 comes in last pretty easily, although I don’t hate the Moebius quite as much as I used to.
• Voice Acting: 1 > 2T > 3 > 2
  • 1 leads the way here with convincing performances across the board. 2T follows suit, a welcome surprise after how messy 2 was. 3’s main party has the best voice acting of the series, but some of the Heroes and Moebius are incredibly lackluster. 2 is in last due to its abysmal direction.
• World Design: 3 > 1 > 2T > 2
  • 3 isn’t quite as imaginative as the other games, but the sheer scope of the world cannot be ignored. 1 is next due to its simplicity and breeziness in exploration. 2T fixes a lot of the problems 2 had, but it’s still bogged down enough that it falls below the others.
• Visual Direction: 2 > 1 > 3 > 2T
  • 2 leads the way here by a wide margin. Alrest is stunning to look at, and each Titan is magnificent. 1 falls a bit short due to how sterile the Mechonis is, but Bionis is plenty beautiful. 3 lacks the imagination of the previous games, but there are still plenty of breathtaking vistas to behold. 2T falls in last due to its limited scope, although Torna itself is beautiful.
• Combat: 2T > 2 > 3 > 1
  • 2T perfected 2’s combat and easily takes top billing. I’m not entirely sure yet whether I prefer 2 or 3 yet, but I went with 2 for the time being due to its cohesiveness and stronger chain attacks. 1 is in last for its lack of depth.
• Music: 3 > 2 > 1 > 2T
  • 3’s OST is incredibly both in quality and quantity, and might just be my favorite Nintendo OST to date. 2 has some phenomenal location music, but the battle themes can get a bit muddy at times. 1 is boosted by Future Connected, but the heights just don’t quite match 2 and 3 consistently enough. 2T os once again in last due to its limited scope, although the quality is superb. Had we gotten a full OST for 2T, it likely would’ve ended up in first place.
• Overall: 3 > 1 > 2T > 2
  • I’m still debating 1 and 3, but I think this is how it will end up. I have a lot of issues with 3, but it does so much well that I think it ultimately surpasses the clean execution of 1.

 

[Brewster123]

Since other's are doing it, I guess I'll break down my thoughts on 3 relative to past Xenoblades as well. Will probably be helpful since it'll be more positive than my previous rantings (which have largely focused on my more negative thoughts despite me still really liking it).

Characters: 2>3>>>1=X. 3's main cast are really well realized, and I really like all of them. It also has some really compelling sidequest characters like See-Mee-Mee, Dorin, Bambam, the heros, and other characters like Bolearis. That said, the villains, while several of them (N, J, Shania) are quite strong, lack the emotional depth and thematic resonance of 2's for me, which combined with 2's own compelling cast, leaves 3 in 2nd place. Still an excellent showing though.

Story: 2 > 3 > 1 > X. 3's story is heavily focused on its characters, and while I think the last chapter isn't as smoothly executed as the rest of the game, it still does a good job of realizing that core focus. This, combined with the great first few chapters and sublime experience that is chapter 5, puts it firmly in the upper half. I still don't quite think it beats XC2's story, which hit higher highs for me despite its pacing issues, but its close.

Worldbuilding / Lore: 2 > X >= 1 >> 3: The world and lore of this game were quite underdevelopped in this game due to it really honing in on its main characters, so ultimately the game ends up in last here for me. Just a part of the game's priorities.

Exploration: X > 3 > 2 > 1. While it lacks worldbuilding, the world itself is really well designed and fun to explore. It has a lot of the verticality I liked in 2, but the lack of field skills and the improvements to the map design/ui make exploration much funner. It still doesn't quite top X for me, but X was a game built with exploration as its focus so it reaching 2nd place isn't a bad finish at all.

Gameplay: 3 > 2 > X > 1. The gameplay in this game is great. While I have a few gripes with the combat system (namely how divorced chain attacks are from the rest of the battle system) and prefer 2's combat overall, this game comes with a ton of quality of life stuff that 2 would die for. No field skills and a much better UI alone help a ton. It also helps that the battle and class systems of this game are super interesting and fun to play. Overall, the game is great in this respect.

Music: 2 > 3 > 1 > X. The soundtrack for this game is much more ambient and generally less melodic than previous games, but I still really like it. It sets the vibe perfectly. The battle themes in this game are also great and very varied. Its a very strong soundtrack that I could easily see someone else viewing as the best Blade soundtrack.

Overall: 2 > 3 > X > 1. While I like this game for very different reasons than the other Xeno games (which complicates putting them in the same list like this), I do still really like this game. The story succeeds at creating compelling characters, emotional beats, and explores several interesting themes. The gameplay features refinements the series really benefits from, with only a few minor gripes remaining. Finally, the world it features, while very underdevelopped compared to past games, is compelling atleast at creating interesting and sometimes stunning vistas to run through. I have my gripes and disappointments with this title, but I still do really like it.

 

[Phendrift]

Something that hasn’t been talked about yet is, I’m just even more bewildered at the “Takahashi has lost his touch and Xenoblade is terrible, Xenogears can’t be beaten” crowd. It’s not one you see here, but it’s one you see on ERA a LOT.

Because I look at XC2, which has breakneck story pacing all the way through the end where it delivers a massively great payoff (VERY hard to do with a 50+ hour game). I look at XC3 which juggles heavy themes constantly and does so with such a level of grace, humanity and consistency that is atypical for JRPGs to the point that it almost feels weird at times. I look at how beloved both of these casts are by the fanbase. Edit: Mind you I didn’t even mention Torna here, but that too

And I’m over here thinking like, if takahashi lost his touch, which modern popular JRPG franchises are doing it better? Because as much as I love them it’s certainly not modern single player FF, it’s CERTAINLY not modern Kingdom Hearts, it’s certainly not pokemon lol (though that’s not held to the same standard really). I guess it’s persona which I can’t really speak on as I haven’t played it.

I guess at the end of the day, the main point of this is that XC has kinda solidified itself as my favorite modern JRPG franchise lol

 

[Brawlz]

I played
I beat
I cried

I cried a lot

 

[Phendrift]

Using Nia in chain attacks makes me want a “Mio… SOCK IT TO EM!” voice line or something lol

It’s not the same without it!

 

[Pokemaniac]

The DLC depicting early Aionios and the founding of the City does make the most sense, but I hope it at least clarifies the exact timeline of the Moebius takeover and why undoing it results in two separate worlds again. That's really kind of my main sticking point with the ending, because earlier it was suggested that the merge had already started and the Moebius thing happened instead of origin activating, but the worlds being fully separate again when time unfreezes would sort of suggest that the Moebius takeover actually forced the merge a bit early. This would also help to clarify whether it's expected that the merge will happen again without interference, or if the two worlds are somehow more permanently separate.

Also would be really good to know what's up with the black fog and annihilation events. That's something that really felt like it should have been very important thematically, both based on Future Connected and the main themes of trying to preserve the "endless now", but it was kinda just there.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

Characters: XC2 - I loved the larger than life personalities and flamboyant character interactions of the second game. There’s a nice mixture of older and younger party members, as well different social classes and so on. The scene where Rex gives up is just brilliant, it leverages all the relationships in the game. The villains can’t be overlooked either. The best in the series by a long way. The party of XC3 are great, but the story doesn’t put them through enough for me and the villains are abysmal. Even XC probably edges out XC3 here, simply because I prefer Metal Face, Dickson, Egil and Zanza. No game in this series with a cast of bad guys as weak as XC3 can come out on top for me.

Story: XC2 - if you look at the stories pound for pound, XC2 just has so much more going on than the others. The frequency of important plot beats in the back half of the game is unmatched, making the other games look quite slight in comparison. I said it in the other thread, but people take the last 20 hours of XC2 for granted - we hoped XC3 would match it, but it drops off a cliff. Very little happens in the final stretch of XC3. There’s a lot of ruminating on themes, not a lot of actual story progression. There’s no twists and turns, no enemies become friends, etc. XC offers up a more satisfying narrative as well in my opinion.

World-building/Lore: XC2 - the history of Alrest can’t be beat. It’s rich, lovingly detailed and creates a sense of place the others game just can’t stand up to. For those who have really delved into everything XC2 has to offer, the other games feel remarkably light when compared. Neither XC and XC3 do a lot for me in this regard, but I find the concept of the former a lot more compelling. The setups for both games are excellent and they both have their moments though.

Exploration: XC2 - the densest maps, with so many nooks and crannies to explore. There’s a sense of wonder and character to the titans that the other games don’t have. There’s friction in that exploration for sure, but more importantly, the world was captivating enough for me to push through some frustrations. XC3’s maps are big, flat and lean on series iconography to build their identity because they don’t have much going on otherwise. Take the Fallen Hand/Arm out of the desert in XC3 and it just feels generic… as do most areas. XC2 easily has the best towns too, compared to XC3’s bland-looking collection of tents in every region. XC sits in last place in this regard, more due to the passage of time than any real deficiency. This might be the most disappointing aspect of XC3 for me after the story.

Gameplay: XC2 - I just find the combat a lot more fun in XC2 compared to XC3. I think a lot of systems underpinning the core gameplay are superior in XC3, which is a more elegant game overall. But the combat is the heart of the Xenoblade, in terms of gameplay and I much prefer the orb system present in the second game.

Music: XC2 - it’s just magic. Top quality and full of variety, XC2’s soundtrack remains the one to beat… and quite easily in my opinion. XC3 is equal parts excellent and forgettable for me. XC sits in second place. What really helps XC2 in my opinion is the assortment of different tones in its story and world. It’s one part whimsical adventure, another part early 2000s shonen anime, a character drama, an examination on human nature, so on and so forth. You can put someone like Zeke into XC2 and his accompanying music and it doesn’t break the game, which also tackles some really heavy stuff. There’s such a broad range of tones in XC2, and as a result, there’s just so much musical diversity. There comedic stuff, dramatic stuff, sci-if stuff… stuff that wouldn’t be out of place in something like Splatoon!

I’m not counting Torna in this either, but that would put XC2 even further ahead in some of these categories.

As Takahashi said, XC and XC2 are two sides of the same coin. They share a soul. One game is a little more elegant, the other a little messier. One game darker, one lighter. One game focuses on its story, another on its characters. You can draw a lot of parallels between them, but they’re both distinct… yet they fit together.

XC3 has echos of both games and while in some ways its undeniably the best in the series, it’s the way it comes together that feels off. There’s a touch of magic, an identity, a charisma, missing from XC3.

Great party, poor villains. Interesting themes, sparse story. Huge environments, but lacking that imaginative spark. There’s few rousing moments of victory, no plot twist that recontextualises the whole narrative, no sense of momentum as the game comes to a close. The ‘battle anime’ trappings that have always supplemented the deeper, more emotional content of the series isn’t really in XC3 and I think that was an important part of the magic mixture.

And while people will continually explain away the lack of towns, the lack of history, the lack of world building, the lack of cohesion in the world as byproducts of the story and the narrative the game wanted to tell…

… it still leaves me with a world full of tents, a game world without much character and history, stapled together biomes littered with XC and XC2 set dressing - stuff the game is happy to lean on, but not actually do anything with.

Z is a concept yes, but he’s a really poor villain. Absent for most of the game, lacking in any personal connection to the party, poorly explained… so on and so on. Plenty of characters in XC and XC2 embody the themes and concepts of their games, but they’re still characters. Even if, like I said above, you can explain away why he is as is he is, that doesn’t mean it’s satisfying.

There‘s a commitment to theme over good storytelling at times. And the recycling of XC and XC2 iconography is used to lift up a world that, at times, feels really bland.

When you look back at XC2, it simultaneously told its own story, recontextualised and beefed up the world of XC and set the stage for a franchise of sequels. And, while not flawless, it did so much better with what it had than XC3.

XC3 is a game marketed as the conclusion of it all… but it’s not interested in being a sequel to anything. XC3 takes so much from XC and XC2, but gives so little back.

The queens didn’t have to be Nia and Melia. It means nothing that they are. The scientist at the end of XC2 didn’t need to be Klaus, but bloody hell they made that decision count for something…

Anyway - XC2 > XC > XC3… and I do like XC3 believe it or not. lol

Fin.

 

[Phendrift]

The thing about the founding is that it’s way more vague than Torna was in XC2 imo.

They literally had the perfect setup for Torna. It was alluded to much more clearly in XB2. The playable characters who it would focus on wrote itself.

• Lora and Jin to elaborate on that backstory and enrich Jin’s character even more, with Haze to flesh her out more
• Fleshing out the dynamic between Addam and Mythra and what led to the tragedy of them. Minoth was also in XC2 and it made perfect sense to put him here, also had a past relationship with Mythra to explore.
• Hugo and his blades to get past Mor Ardain in there, and Brighid specifically to pay off her prior relationship with Mythra that XC2 Brighid’s diary referred to.

You could convince me it was perfectly planned from the start before they even finished the base game. XC2 referenced it’s past plenty of times, and they came up with the perfect 9 characters to focus on to pay that story off completely. Literally all of them except Aegeon and Hugo had just enough teasing in the base game that made exploring their past enthralling.

With the founders, we know way less. It both makes me more nervous and excited. It would be an entirely new cast, we don’t even know their names. on one hand, I’m totally down to be surprised with an all new cast of characters to explore, it’d make it feel like even more of a brand new game than Torna impressively felt like. On the other, I’m not sure the pieces are all in place as well as they were for Torna to create such a cohesive and full story payoff that Torna gave to base XC2 if that makes sense.

 

[Phendrift]

Also there’s another conversation that I think could be interesting about how Monolith’s work on BotW/BotW’s success could have influenced this game.

Make no mistake it is still a story focused game designed around a linear narrative unlike BotW, but there’s little things that just jump out at me. From the subdued atmospheric approach in the field music, to a non-linear story approach in the form of heroes that reward you for exploring outside of the main quest. The ability to fuck off the main quest for 20 hours in chapter 3 and just do side content. The massive scope of the world itself.

I always felt XC2 was a more tight, more gated exploration experience even compared to its predecessor. And it was always kind of weird to me weird knowing monolith had just come off of XCX and BotW. This game felt like they reinjected a little bit of that DNA back into it.

 

[Dr_Phishshoe]

Sorry but I still love that a Nintendo character is called Monica ''Bitchqueen'' Vandham.

 

[BradenAndEggs]

I played through chapter 5 and the beginning of chapter 6 again last night and it's just as devastating as the first time. Maybe more so knowing what we know about what's really going on from the beginning of 6. It's going to live in my head rent-free for a while.

Also, I love that some of the only XC1-esque fetch mission "sidequests" in the game are literally prison labor, and the main characters bitch about it the whole time.

 

[Renmazuo]

Something that hasn’t been talked about yet is, I’m just even more bewildered at the “Takahashi has lost his touch and Xenoblade is terrible, Xenogears can’t be beaten” crowd. It’s not one you see here, but it’s one you see on ERA a LOT.

Because I look at XC2, which has breakneck story pacing all the way through the end where it delivers a massively great payoff (VERY hard to do with a 50+ hour game). I look at XC3 which juggles heavy themes constantly and does so with such a level of grace, humanity and consistency that is atypical for JRPGs to the point that it almost feels weird at times. I look at how beloved both of these casts are by the fanbase. Edit: Mind you I didn’t even mention Torna here, but that too

And I’m over here thinking like, if takahashi lost his touch, which modern popular JRPG franchises are doing it better? Because as much as I love them it’s certainly not modern single player FF, it’s CERTAINLY not modern Kingdom Hearts, it’s certainly not pokemon lol (though that’s not held to the same standard really). I guess it’s persona which I can’t really speak on as I haven’t played it.

I guess at the end of the day, the main point of this is that XC has kinda solidified itself as my favorite modern JRPG franchise lol

I don't know what people are saying in general but if you ask me why such sentiments might arise, it's because of 2 main reasons I was ruminating on while I was playing through the final chapter

1. The writing in Xenoblade 3 can feel pretty toothless sometimes. A cheap but effective way of looking at it, is seeing how the game treats character deaths. Once you realize that nobody is actually dying, it suddenly feels like the game has no bite. For example Ethel comes back in the very same chapter she dies, they couldn't even wait out the reveal that much. When Cammuravi, Miyabi and those 2 guys all come back at the same time in chapter 6 you honestly gotta laugh it up a little. The 2 guys in particular are egregious because it's almost like the game doesn't even have the balls to kill the most minor of minor characters. And the game itself seems to realize this so it has to pull a new twist (that I don't think makes much sense in Z's eternal world?) regarding homecomings to make Mio's death feel actually important. By the end of the game who has really died? Villains and... Vandham I guess? Joran appears in the last sequence so even the people who became Consuls aren't really gone at the end lol. For a game that was billed as much darker, coupled with statements from Takahashi in interviews that he wanted to do something more violent and mature (paraphrasing here) this ends up feeling surprisingly soft.

2. Xenoblade 3 liberally tries to take concepts from Xenogears but its setting doesn't have anywhere near the complexity and depth to pull them off, not in the same way at least. Here's the most obvious example:

Spoiler: Xenogears spoilers obviously

Come beginning of Chapter 6, the game has dropped all pretense of Noah and Mio not being based on Fei and Elly. It begins with a deep dive into Noah's subconscious, where a child version of himself guides him through memories of his past lives, where we find out Noah and Mio fell in love in all their previous lives, where we see Noah watch Mio die multiple times, where we see a Noah driven to despair becoming evil and betraying everything else he held dear. This is pretty much the exact same thing as Xenogears with different characters, just replace "Noah and Mio" with "Fei and Elly", it's so similar otherwise I was pretty surprised the first time I saw it.

The difference with Xenogears is that, there was barely any context, foreshadowing or buildup to any of this. To begin with these glimpses into their past lives are barely detailed, there's not much you can surmise from them other than the basics. When exactly did they take place (beyond simply "the distant past" I mean)? What were their companions like? What was the City like? How were they freed from their respective Flame Clocks? There are no details here. Like I said there's no foreshadowing to any of this beyond general knowledge of reincarnation, but that applies to everyone, not just Noah and Mio, and the fact there's an evil version of Noah running around which is as unsubtle as you can get.

Compare how the exact same twist was done in Xenogears, where from very early on in the plot the game is bombarding you with hints about not just Fei and Elly's past lives, but also the eras they lived through. A mysterious portrait from 500 years ago that looks exactly like Elly (that also happens to be key imagery of the game). The brush techniques that resemble Fei's style. Elly knowing how to operate machinery in a mysterious ruined city from the ancient past. Emeralda referring to Fei as her dad. Solaris identifying Fei and Elly by the peculiar titles "Contact" and "Antitype". And so on and so forth. By the time the same scene happens in Xenogears it hits you like a truck because not only is it a very emotional scene, it is like the whole game was building up to this, and it all makes sense all of a sudden. Something like this was possible because the setting and its timeline are extremely detailed and elaborate and so they could sprinkle these little hints all throughout the game in preparation for the big reveal. It's not possible to do it in Xenoblade 3 because there isn't much to the world beyond its broadest concepts and its timeline is completely inscrutable.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Brewster123]

Yeah, I don't agree with the "Xenogears cannot be beaten crowd", but I do think comparing XC3 to Gears exposes, in my view atleast, some of the issues XC3 has in its writing. The two games, both plotwise and themewise, are doing similar things, but I think Gears does a better job of handling certain plot elements and has a much more engaging and well-thought out world.

 

[DecoReturns]

I really disliked how some
Stuff was optional. Like, Shania should’ve been a focus for the main story cause they had a good thing going.

I had a hard time feeling sorry for her. Especially when she commits Suicide with her sisters Gun. Like damn, why was her stuff sideline to a quest about someone else!? (Sena(

 

[Koren Lesthe]

That’s not really an epilogue though, that’s an entirely new game. And that’s assuming the worlds merge in the first place, my impression was that both worlds would be recreated separately, as they were before.

The world won’t collide anymore.
Like Nia said, the goal of the operation was to basically do a save state of both worlds, let them collide and use the Origin to reboot both worlds the way they were before the collision and restore everyone’s life the way it was -before the initial collision-.

IIRC, N existed for at least a thousand years and I don’t think we know for how long Noah & Mio tried to stop Z.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

The Aegis War is referenced multiple times throughout XC2.

And not only is it a significant event that helped shape the world of Alrest, it had a lasting impact on many characters still alive and kicking in the main narrative.

It fleshed out Jin and Mythra, and gave us an insight into who Lora and Addam were. Not just as characters themselves, but how their personalities and actions shaped the people we came to know in XC2.

It also built on what we knew about Torna as a society, showed how Almalthus rose to power… fucking hell, it even showed how Zeke’s ancestors usurped the throne, and in a single shot no less.

Malos’ line about Addam’s eyes is a direct reference to his remark to Rex in the first chapter of XC2, but not an outright confirmation of anything.

We all thought Mythra had a thing for Addam based on a scene in XC2 - turns out they had more of a familial bond.

Jin taking Haze’s life in XC2 is given so much more weight after playing Torna because of what the DLC does to those two characters, Lora and Amalthus.

At the eleventh hour, Mythra summons Ophion out of the cloud sea… bloody hell, Monolith Soft thought of absolutely everything!

Here’s Mythra seeing Rex in the future, here’s Minoth, let’s connect Addam to Gramps so it makes sense the latter would be guarding Fonsett, here’s how the driver/blade combat style of the base game emerged, here’s a side quest showing how one of the Gormott landmarks gets its name…

… I could just go on and on.

It’s a victory lap where every time the crowd cheers, Takahashi and co just throw out another reference that makes the audience go wild.

XC2 not only told its own story, it not only expanded our understanding of XC and opened the door for more sequels, it set up a whole prequel story that feels like essentially playing. It’s a miracle.


And this my friends is where the world building of XC3 falls short. I don’t know how they can create a story about the founders that I would find interesting.

And more importantly, absolutely none of the groundwork is laid to make such an expansion pique my interest. Aionios is a world with little to no history and XC3 is a game that flirts with connecting to XC and XC2… but not really.

We‘ve got six hero statues, some alluding to our old heroes, Torna as precedent and DLC artwork that all but promises us Shulk and Rex are coming back.

That‘s why we all think it’s going to be a prequel, not because the game is written in any way that makes you hunger for that story. In fact, the ending just makes the very idea of it feel more hollow.

But as with XC3 in general, I suspect the DLC will be happy to point to these things I love, without wanting to engage with them in a meaningful way.

 

[Brewster123]

One opinion I've seen floating online that I'd like to offer for discussion is related to how the game balances Keves and Agnus. I've seen some people argue that the game has a strong favoritism for Keves. It opens with the Keves trio, the first climatic colony fight in the game (Colony 4) is in Keves, the two emotional moebius encounters (Joran and Crys) are Keves-related, and the game closes with a final scene focusing on the Keves squad. I've seen this then be furthered argued as undermining the duality the game tries to present between the two nations, with them being less two sides of the same coin and more one weighted coin. I personally don't know how I feel about this. I agree that the game superficially feels Keves focused for its big story beats, but I don't know how big of an issue that is, so I'd like to hear other takes on the matter.

 

[Thunder84]

While the Founders story doesn’t have the same ties to the main story that Torna did, the writers have a lot more freedom with the concept because of it. There’s a lot of different concepts and ideas they could use.

• Pretty much any character from 3 could show up in a significant capacity due to the cyclical nature of the game, giving us more insight into their personality despite them being a “different person”. This includes Noah and Mio, as we don’t know when their final cycles were.
• We still don’t know the fate of Noah’s son. This alone could be a very interesting plot line if Noah’s final cycle isn’t the one where his son is born. Seeing the city residents interacting with their parents, who in turn have no memory of their children, is a pretty interesting plot thread by itself.
• The politics of the City could be greatly expanded upon. I’m also very curious to see how different the City was before N’s massacre.
• Nia will likely make another appearance, which is always welcome. Her interactions with Rex could be very interesting, especially if Rex is a victim of the flame clocks and had no memory of his past.
• We might get some much needed insight into the less developed Moebius of the present. Someone like K could really benefit from this.

 

[Pokemaniac]

One opinion I've seen floating online that I'd like to offer for discussion is related to how the game balances Keves and Agnus. I've seen some people argue that the game has a strong favoritism for Keves. It opens with the Keves trio, the first climatic colony fight in the game (Colony 4) is in Keves, the two emotional moebius encounters (Joran and Crys) are Keves-related, and the game closes with a final scene focusing on the Keves squad. I've seen this then be furthered argued as undermining the duality the game tries to present between the two nations, with them being less two sides of the same coin and more one weighted coin. I personally don't know how I feel about this. I agree that the game superficially feels Keves focused for its big story beats, but I don't know how big of an issue that is, so I'd like to hear other takes on the matter.

This is something I also noticed. We barely even get a sense for what pre-merge Agnus/Alrest is like (which is another issue I had with the ending, where was the scene with Mio, Sena, and Taion?).

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

Keves definitely gets more focus, but I’d say a lot of my favourite character moments are led by the Agnus lot, so it’s a wash for me.

Ethel could have been great with more narrative focus, while Cammuravi was given the personality of a dried cracker, so that’s a shame.

Nia got a bit more love than Melia, I’d say.

I think they do a good job balancing Noah and Mio. The former probably got more screen time, the latter got more development and big showpiece moments.

 

[Irene]

Oh, I haven't posted here yet.

Overall, this story broke me in several ways. But I do have to say that a lot of it is due to personal resonance, meaning that it coincided with what's happening in my personal life at the moment, so hence the extremely strong emotional effect.

Objectively I still think it's a greatly told story, with all the arcs, setpieces and character moments to make up quite the tale.

I don't have a stake or much to say in its connections to XC1 or XC2, which seems to be a prevalent discussion in this thread.

I thought the whole theme of having to get along with the "other side" was perhaps a bit cliché and done in a way that was good, but not in an outstanding way that makes it stand head and shoulders above other JRPG's. Similarily, I think Noah/Mio made a great pair, but their relationship is nothing that other JRPG's haven't done better. It deeply moved me, but again, it's because it resonated with me on a more personal level.

There's certain plot elements that sort of got lost in the kerfuffle of the grand scheme along the way. I agree that the confusion regarding the two worlds "colliding" or whatever, or the true nature of the Sword of Origin and its place in the plot, not to mention the Ethel and Cammuravi fight.. there were times when the story felt kind of muddled, more interested in smaller character moments than addressing the larger lore.

Speaking of those moments though: What does stand out, to me at least, is the baby sequence. That was just downright genius. It really played well with the themes and setting of the game, and seeing these characters learning about the true nature of being human was just brilliant and deeply affecting. Just major feels all over. And speaking of Noah/Mio, the mention about a partner in romance, and them scuffing at each other, is in my opinion a great and subtle foreshadowing of where their story will head further down.

 

[Aleh]

The Aegis War is referenced multiple times throughout XC2.

And not only is it a significant event that helped shape the world of Alrest, it had a lasting impact on many characters still alive and kicking in the main narrative.

It fleshed out Jin and Mythra, and gave us an insight into who Lora and Addam were. Not just as characters themselves, but how their personalities and actions shaped the people we came to know in XC2.

It also built on what we knew about Torna as a society, showed how Almalthus rose to power… fucking hell, it even showed how Zeke’s ancestors usurped the throne, and in a single shot no less.

Malos’ line about Addam’s eyes is a direct reference to his remark to Rex in the first chapter of XC2, but not an outright confirmation of anything.

We all thought Mythra had a thing for Addam based on a scene in XC2 - turns out they had more of a familial bond.

Jin taking Haze’s life in XC2 is given so much more weight after playing Torna because of what the DLC does to those two characters, Lora and Amalthus.

At the eleventh hour, Mythra summons Ophion out of the cloud sea… bloody hell, Monolith Soft thought of absolutely everything!

Here’s Mythra seeing Rex in the future, here’s Minoth, let’s connect Addam to Gramps so it makes sense the latter would be guarding Fonsett, here’s how the driver/blade combat style of the base game emerged, here’s a side quest showing how one of the Gormott landmarks gets its name…

… I could just go on and on.

It’s a victory lap where every time the crowd cheers, Takahashi and co just throw out another reference that makes the audience go wild.

XC2 not only told its own story, it not only expanded our understanding of XC and opened the door for more sequels, it set up a whole prequel story that feels like essentially playing. It’s a miracle.


And this my friends is where the world building of XC3 falls short. I don’t know how they can create a story about the founders that I would find interesting.

And more importantly, absolutely none of the groundwork is laid to make such an expansion pique my interest. Aionios is a world with little to no history and XC3 is a game that flirts with connecting to XC and XC2… but not really.

We‘ve got six hero statues, some alluding to our old heroes, Torna as precedent and DLC artwork that all but promises us Shulk and Rex are coming back.

That‘s why we all think it’s going to be a prequel, not because the game is written in any way that makes you hunger for that story. In fact, the ending just makes the very idea of it feel more hollow.

But as with XC3 in general, I suspect the DLC will be happy to point to these things I love, without wanting to engage with them in a meaningful way.

XC2 and Torna were the perfect storm. They just nailed absolutely everything regarding the world and its characters and somehow managed to even improve another game in the process.

 

[DecoReturns]

Lora wasn’t a good story beat in the original XC2. Always felt force.

Only really works after playing Torna. I love torna and Lora. But in XC2 by itself when I played it. Lora and Jin was pretty much something that felt more force then genuine. Even Haze death in XC2 didn’t add much.

 

[Thunder84]

Lora wasn’t a good story beat in the original XC2. Always felt force.

Only really works after playing Torna. I love torna and Lora. But in XC2 by itself when I played it. Lora and Jin was pretty much something that felt more force then genuine. Even Haze death in XC2 didn’t add much.

Mikhail too. Replayed XC2 this year and it’s astonishing how unlikeable he is. XC2T really colored my perception of him as a character.

Hell, unpopular opinion, but I didn’t really care for Mythra all that much until XC2T, which improved her character tremendously. XC2T definitely relies on a lot of XC2’s setup, but it also redeems quite a few of XC2’s problems.

 

[Phendrift]

I’ve said before but I also wonder how the new heroes before the big story update will be integrated, given how XC3’s heroes work compared to blades.

They can’t just slap a new hero in there, there’s gotta be a quest that integrates them into the world.

 

[DecoReturns]

Drifting Soul have 4 great versions of the same song is the best thing about the XC2 and XC3 connection.

Also Nia’s voice acting been pretty great for the time she has. She was already good in the first game but you could tell the time/budget wasn’t there for some of her scenes.

 

[EtherPenguin]

I’ve said before but I also wonder how the new heroes before the big story update will be integrated, given how XC3’s heroes work compared to blades.

They can’t just slap a new hero in there, there’s gotta be a quest that integrates them into the world.

Crossette, Corvin, and Poppi Buster came with voiced sidequests, would it be so different?

 

[Brewster123]

Crossette, Corvin, and Poppi Buster came with voiced sidequests, would it be so different?

Its just the new heros would need to be anchored to a location or colony and given a role or place within Aionios. Xenoblade 2 had it easier in that its dlc characters could just be stuck in random core crystals. With the exception of poppibuster, they didn't need to really fit into Alrest's existing dynamics other than just being a blade.

 

[Thunder84]

New colonies would be sick, but I dunno how they’d be able to add those in.

 

[EtherPenguin]

Right, I can't see them adding colonies or locations before the story DLC. It wouldn't surprise me if the new heroes are just not as integrated into the colonies/world. The first one looks like it could be some sort of robot - perhaps an artificial blade. I could see an artificial blade having a quest not connected to a colony.

I hope the new quests aren't just more variations on beat the consul/break the flame clock/liberate the colony/win the commander's trust in the process.

Having said that, it does stand out to me that there's this big green landmass northwest of Aetia on the map screen. I'm curious if they do anything with that. I kept waiting to go there and it never happened.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Okay, I could swear the first time I wandered down into Maktha Wilidwood L I saw a dragon. Now that I've beaten the game, I cannot seem to get it to spawn. Any ideas? I've been trying to change time to trigger different weather patterns, a la Abaasy...

 

[Seven]

So I'm not entirely done with the game, but I've seen the ending and here's my interpretation of it. Everything we see after the beginning scene where young Noah witnesses the collision of the two universes takes place within Origin. There is no time travel or physical recreation of the separate universes instead the system is rebooted and begins working as intended from the start. The real reason for the celebration at the beginning of the game was so Melia could mass upload everyone into Origin right before the collision and then have everything continue as-is within the system (and I assume Nia did the same with the people of Alrest). Unfortunately the appearance of the other universe heading straight for them invoked a collective feelings of dread within the gathered people of both universes that gave rise to Z.

Aionios itself is Moebius A, that is the reason it is undergoing random extinction events. It has been forced into a prolonged interlink by Z and overheating and destroying itself in the process. Once Z was deleted the interlink was allowed to end, but since they are both connected through Origin they are not permanently separated.

I have also seen arguments online that the ending made the various events and quests you accomplish throughout the game pointless which I would argue is not true. While rebooting Origin did erase the colonies we do know that some memories do linger as we see with some characters like Eunie. So I think that by helping the colonies and giving the various people you meet hope for the future it would prevent the emotions that could potentially bring back Z once everything was rebooted.

 

[EtherPenguin]

Okay, I could swear the first time I wandered down into Maktha Wilidwood L I saw a dragon. Now that I've beaten the game, I cannot seem to get it to spawn. Any ideas? I've been trying to change time to trigger different weather patterns, a la Abaasy...

Same thing happened to me! There were level 75 elite dragons everywhere back in chapter 4. Now that I'm in the 70s myself there nowhere to be seen. All I can think of is that they're weather specific.

edit: I just got a couple to spawn down there with raining weather

 

[Pokemaniac]

Okay, I could swear the first time I wandered down into Maktha Wilidwood L I saw a dragon. Now that I've beaten the game, I cannot seem to get it to spawn. Any ideas? I've been trying to change time to trigger different weather patterns, a la Abaasy...

I've never not seen a dragon down there. Must be a weather thing or some quest trigger.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

I personally don’t expect the new heroes to be anything too plot/lore heavy. None of the blades were in XC2.

And while XC3 does tend to tie heroes to specific colonies, I expect them to either pull the characters out of thin air and slot them in, or not affiliate them with anyone.

They‘ll probably be really useful in the challenge battles… just like Shulk, Fiora and Elma were in XC2.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I feel like there's a non-zero chance one of the DLC heroes being Poppi, because we know she's there.

I wouldn't necessarily expect it, but cameo heroes from challenge mode (like Elma or KOS-MOS) is also a possibility again.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Same thing happened to me! There were level 75 elite dragons everywhere back in chapter 4. Now that I'm in the 70s myself there nowhere to be seen. All I can think of is that they're weather specific.

edit: I just got a couple to spawn down there with raining weather

In that case I think it's time of day. I saw one down there during cloudy weather, at least from 13:00 - 15:00. Could be longer.