Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom - Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread (Tag Story Spoilers)

[BRRRRRING]

Can you imagine how fucking insanely massive this game must be if we have an entire ground, sky, and underground map both past and future versions

I think the evidence for a full explorable different era is kind of weak. Both speculated # of dungeons (based on # of tears), and # of shrines or equivalent (based on # of upgrades to Hearts, Stamina, and likely vials), mostly gels with the game being like 50-75% larger than BotW. If they are really adding in a different era, then the actual density of content seems like would have to be way, way smaller, which I really don't think is the case.

BotW isn't about the size of the world, it was about the density of interesting stuff to do. 120 Shrines and 900 Korok seeds were what it took to have an interesting adventure and exploration no matter which way the player took,

 

[Captain Falcon]

I think the evidence for a full explorable different era is kind of weak. Both speculated # of dungeons (based on # of tears), and # of shrines or equivalent (based on # of upgrades to Hearts, Stamina, and likely vials), mostly gels with the game being like 50-75% larger than BotW. If they are really adding in a different era, then the actual density of content seems like would have to be way, way smaller, which I really don't think is the case.

BotW isn't about the size of the world, it was about the density of interesting stuff to do. 120 Shrines and 900 Korok seeds were what it took to have an interesting adventure and exploration no matter which way the player took,

There is a lot of evidence of Zelda being in a different time period or realm. In fact, it seems that one of the primary objectives of the game will be finding Zelda wherever she is and attaining the non-broken version of the Master Sword from within her world. If and how that impacts the actual gameplay remains to be seen, but it will certainly be part of the story.

 

[BRRRRRING]

There is a lot of evidence of Zelda being in a different time period or realm. In fact, it seems that one of the primary objectives of the game will be finding Zelda wherever she is and attaining the non-broken version of the Master Sword from within her world. If and how that impacts the actual gameplay remains to be seen, but it will certainly be part of the story.

Evidence she's in a different period, sure, but that isn't evidence of them literally having an extra 100 square kilometers of playable game space.

Most of the cinematic plot scenes in BotW were stuff that took place well before the game began, and we had absolutely no idea that was the case until the game launched. I really don't think we have much evidence, especially given how deceptive the editing appears to be, to say when these events take place relative to the rising of the sky islands.

I just really do not think that TotK is going to have substantially lower density of content than BotW, and I think that places limits on bunch of specultion.

 

[Tbone5189]

I'm catching up with everything but rando,ly was thinking ,maybe one of the powers we get ,maybe from zora temple in the sky is a diving suit that allows us for underwater exploration? We get a wing suit for more mobility in the air so maybe...

 

[NabiscoFelt]

I'm catching up with everything but rando,ly was thinking ,maybe one of the powers we get ,maybe from zora temple in the sky is a diving suit that allows us for underwater exploration? We get a wing suit for more mobility in the air so maybe...

I think there's a fair chance we get traversal/mobility items from dungeons. There's the wingsuit of course and the long jump we see twice in the trailer may be the result of an item like the Roc's Feather

In which case an underwater diving item from the Zora dungeon makes some sense

 

[Deleted member 2]

TotK having more than dungeons than BotW would probably bloat the game to a length that's beyond pretty much all single player AAA games outside those Persona level JRPG epics.

God I want this so bad

 

[Horror Kid]

What would be Items/abilities from other tribes?
Sandsealing from the Gerudo, cannonballing from the Gorons?

 

[maestrogeicho]

Damn yeah, I forgot in BotW that none of the ~30 million people who bought the game played any of it. They all just went straight to Hyrule Castle, beat Ganon and called it a day. The critics, who hate video games, loved the idea of skipping an entire game so much that it became one of the best-rated games of all time.

Exactly my point! Who cares about being able to skip the game. It worked well with botw but it's not absolutely needed for an open world experience. It would be cool if this time around they added a more substantial story around the boss instead of letting players just skip to straight to him, because that came at the expense of anything really interesting going on in the present.

There's no reason this game can't keep the freedom philosophy of breath of the wild while still having a twilight princess-style epic story at it's core. It would be a massive disappointment if ganondorf's entire return amount to "he's back, you can go fight him right now." Why not have him rise to power as the player completes the game(in any order they want). The only difference this would make is that if the player wants to beat the final boss, they have to do some of the main content first- it doesn't stop them from going off and doing whatever they want like in BOTW.

Like you said, the ability to skip the game is not what made breath of the wild great, so surely it shouldn't be that important to bring back.

 

[ITSMILNER]

If we are getting a sky area and underground area as big as the Hyrule landmass itself that sounds like plenty, I can’t see another world of a similar size being in the game accessed via time travel. At most it will be separated areas you will be able to visit in a different time period (like dungeons, perhaps traversing a dungeon by jumping between different time periods)

Underwater exploration would be cool but I’m not confident we will get that here. I am really interested to see how caves work and if they will contain puzzles or more lore. I want to be rewarded for exploring every inch of the map.

 

[Selarmor]

BotW's Temple of Time noteably does not have the Master Sword chamber; the circular domed chamber in the back:

The circular platform Zelda is standing on is in the location in relation to the rest of the Temple of Time where the Master Sword chamber would be. The master Sword is laying on the pedestal in the center rather than being stuck in it:

I think this is the Master Sword's resting place in the Zonai era. Zelda is in a time before the islands were sent skyward. The Master Sword pedestal is in the sky in the present.

The Master Sword chamber has contained a doorway to the Sacred Realm in two different games, with the Master Sword acting as the key both times. Within the Sacred Realm, the Light Temple also stands in the location that the Temple of Time occupies in Hyrule.

If Zelda is standing at the Master Sword altar behind the Temple of Time in the past, and the sky islands are from the Sacred Realm, then the version of the altar that Link visits could be the same location in the Sacred Realm, which would make the structure at the end of the tutorial islands the Light Temple. We also very likely meet or speak to Rauru here, and Rauru was the Light Sage from OoT who lived in the Light Temple.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Yeah, there is deff a section of the fanbase are slowly demanding that Nintendo 'de BotW-ifies' the Zelda series. First it was "bring dungeons back", which is like, ok fine, now it's turning into "oh but make us do the dungeons before the final boss", which is more 'hmm', next will be "enclose the dungeons and make us do them in a strict order again", "is free exploration really important to Zelda?", "centre each dungeon around a specific item ", and then finally "I want my three hour arrow dungeon, followed by my three hour bomb dungeon, followed by..." and we're back to Twilight Princess again.

There are genuinely some people out there that would have the next Zelda be one giant 80 hour dungeon, with at least 20 of those hours dedicated purely to bombs.

Nintendo should ask Capcom to do another 2D Zelda, if only to keep these people quiet for a few years.

You seem like a very paranoid person, no there is not a swath of fans "demanding" this. You're making this up.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Damn yeah, I forgot in BotW that none of the ~30 million people who bought the game played any of it. They all just went straight to Hyrule Castle, beat Ganon and called it a day. The critics, who hate video games, loved the idea of skipping an entire game so much that it became one of the best-rated games of all time.

Um, can you chill? This person is clearly on your side

 

[Yavga]

I think there's a fair chance we get traversal/mobility items from dungeons. There's the wingsuit of course and the long jump we see twice in the trailer may be the result of an item like the Roc's Feather

In which case an underwater diving item from the Zora dungeon makes some sense

From the Zeltik video he deduced that the long jump was probably coming from the platforms themselves "anti gravity" because these same motifs can be seen in the item within the water bubbles, explaining how they came to be.

 

[Zumikoi]

I think that the new dragon that was seen some months ago in one of the official images is Rauru in the present or at least his spirit resides in that dragon.

Rauru is clearly inspired in part by a dragon and in that image the dragon is on the tutorial island. And we know the implications of the characters with that name in the Zelda games so

 

[Cevan]

so I never really paid attention to this page in the art book but this definitely seems like Pikango's house, which is interesting since he doesn't have a permanent residence in BotW - if you pay attention, he goes to sleep in the inn instead. the style of interior is a match for the houses in Kakariko Village, also note the damage to the walls and surrounding - from the recent trailer, we know chunks of sky island landed in the village so this checks out

what's interesting though is that Pikango was a key component of BotW's Captured Memories quest line and he would guide you to the locations of the memories. the paintings in the background definitely have some sort of prominence and match up with how the memories in BotW worked. so it seems like they'll kind of similar side content with using pictures / paintings to point you towards certain locations for reasons? who knows

 

[Deleted member 2]

Ive been thinking about ultrahand and hoping that there isnt really many limits to it and you can build large structures(probably would take a while to build). I at least want to build a little house for Link lol

Honestly the biggest hint at how creative we can be, and the thing that actually made me the most hyped for Ultrahand, was the crazy rotating laser death trap machine Link made in the latest trailer. At first I thought it was like, a pre-built thing, until I watched the latest Zeltik video and he pointed out that it was actually something the player had created and was activating with an arrow.

 

[Phendrift]

The leaked TV spot naming Flame Gleeok officially gives me BotW nostalgia of the Super Bowl ad officially revealing Molduga and Hinox names :^)

 

[HockeyBird]

It's interesting how little we've seen of the Sheikah in the official stuff considering how prominent they were in BOTW. No Divine Beasts. No Guardians. No Yiga Clan. No Shiekah characters shown in the trailers. The most info we have gotten officially are the glimpses of Guardian parts in those towers. We know from the art book that they are still around doing stuff but none of that has been shown in the marketing.

I'm going to predict Paya will get one of the Tears of the Kingdom. Maybe a shadow tear or something like that. She is shy but I think part of the story will involve her taking up the mantle from Impa.

 

[ZeldaPY]

What would be Items/abilities from other tribes?
Sandsealing from the Gerudo, cannonballing from the Gorons?

I’m hoping there’s a construct or enemy type that utilizes the rocket against us and it is not just an item we find. We still don’t know what the Lotus staff does from the art book either.

 

[Deleted member 3433]

They very deliberately do not show us any portion of the Master Sword that would be damaged whenever it's with Zelda.

Why would a person hold a damaged sword this way, unless it's not?

 

[Selarmor]

Why would a person hold a damaged sword this way, unless it's not?

...by the handle? What do you mean?

None of the shots of Zelda with the Master Sword show the portion of the blade that would be damaged. You said it's still intact. We don't know that. It could be the damaged version, it could be an intact version from the past, or it could be the Zonai energy hybrid version from the logo.

 

[RennanNT]

Um, can you chill? This person is clearly on your side

That poster might have been unecessarely aggressive. But the person calling them outrageous strawman and proceeded to act exactly in the way they complained about is clearly not on their side.

 

[NabiscoFelt]

From the Zeltik video he deduced that the long jump was probably coming from the platforms themselves "anti gravity" because these same motifs can be seen in the item within the water bubbles, explaining how they came to be.

Which would be a moderately fair conclusion based on the trailer (though I'd still argue as to why the long jump happens before Link is on any said platform) but there's also a frame from the Japanese website that might show Link doing the long jump on surface level (though it's cut short before we can really tell).

 

[maestrogeicho]

That poster might have been unecessarely aggressive. But the person calling them outrageous strawman and proceeded to act exactly in the way they complained about is clearly not on their side.

Yeah, no...saying people who like the older Zelda games want 20 hour dungeons centered around a single item is a ridiculous exaggeration. All I said was that giving the player the ability to skip most of the the game in botw came at the expense of a more traditional zelda story, which is true. And like I said, I prefer what breath of the wild did, I just want more of a middle ground between classic and open zelda. The other poster was acting unnecessarily aggressive and acting like every aspect of the older zelda titles was invented by satan himself.

 

[RennanNT]

Yeah, no...saying people who like the older Zelda games want 20 hour dungeons centered around a single item is a ridiculous exaggeration.

They made a slippery slope argument yeah. And they also exaggerated like your satan thing, yeah.

All I said was that giving the player the ability to skip most of the the game in botw came at the expense of a more traditional zelda story, which is true.

BotW design choices had a cost, yes. They're also why the game is so successful and beloved despite being inferior in story and dungeons to it's predecessors.

You can't just cut down significantly on it's most important feature (freedom) and say it's the better of both worlds.

And like I said, I prefer what breath of the wild did, I just want more of a middle ground between classic and open zelda.

That's a better description, so is "un-botw-fy it".

The other poster was acting unnecessarily aggressive

Yeah.

and acting like every aspect of the older zelda titles was invented by satan himself.

No. They're annoyed at people downplaying the goods from BotW because they prefer story over freedom.

Just like "who cares about being able to skip any part of the game" is akin to "who cares if you can do things in a different order". You're doing the content anyway, right? Why give more freedom to players if you can have a better story putting them on rails?

 

[maestrogeicho]

They made a slippery slope argument yeah. And they also exaggerated like your satan thing, yeah.


BotW design choices had a cost, yes. They're also why the game is so successful and beloved despite being inferior in story and dungeons to it's predecessors.

You can't just cut down significantly on it's most important feature (freedom) and say it's the better of both worlds.


That's a better description, so is "un-botw-fy it".


Yeah.


No. They're annoyed at people downplaying the goods from BotW because they prefer story over freedom.

Just like "who cares about being able to skip any part of the game" is akin to "who cares if you can do things in a different order". You're doing the content anyway, right? Why give more freedom to players if you can have a better story putting them on rails?

I think you're missing the point of my argument entirely, but I don't have the energy to argue this any further.

 

[maestrogeicho]

One of the zonai-themed small keys is on this desk here. Is it possible we might be able to take keys out of dungeons like in Zelda 1? I think this would work well with the more open dungeons we have seen hinted at in the recent trailer- they could be like big mazes that we can complete out of order and enter and exit at different points, but we might be able to keep a stash of small keys that we can use to progress in other dungeons even if we leave a certain dungeon early. And then just like Zelda 1, it's possible we could buy keys from somewhere; possibly even from the person who owns this house in the image.

 

[ITSMILNER]

I wonder if this is going to end up having some form of Tower Defence quests to it?I’m the trailer you had the scenes where Link was carting NPC’s around and also scenes where he was fighting alongside regular NPC’s.

Could it be some towns/a town has a quest line where you build the town and then have to help defend it at certain points? Like after a Blood Moon appears and enemies respawn they will attack the town again and you have to rush back to help defend it?

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Having just finished OoT for the gazillionth time, I really do hope the (final?) fight against Ganondorf involves Zelda in a big and active way.

 

[Deleted member 2506]

Credits via Kirbtastic16 twitter

 

[Deleted member 3433]

...by the handle? What do you mean?

None of the shots of Zelda with the Master Sword show the portion of the blade that would be damaged. You said it's still intact. We don't know that. It could be the damaged version, it could be an intact version from the past, or it could be the Zonai energy hybrid version from the logo.

She's obviously lifting it above the ground, there's a heft to it. This is not the broken sword that one can easily hold in one hand.

 

[spelga51]

I think Link and Zelda communicate to each other (or Zelda records voice-memo style memories) via the Master Sword. Link returns to that pedestal for updates and MS upgrades from Zelda in the past. She guides Link on how he can find all the Tear gemstones in exchange.

 

[Jencks]

I have a feeling Zelda will join us for the final boss/dungeon like the other champions

 

[Horror Kid]

I think Link and Zelda communicate to each other (or Zelda records voice-memo style memories) via the Master Sword. Link returns to that pedestal for updates and MS upgrades from Zelda in the past. She guides Link on how he can find all the Tear gemstones in exchange.

Talked about that theory yesterday, yes. I think this too.
I think Zeldas part will focus more on the 11 symbols we saw in the map room in the artbook. I think Zelda can form time bubbles for Link, so he can get to something in the past.

Many of the tears we have to find, seem to be attached to the four tribes and all of them had some catastrophic event in their region in the present. These don't seem to align with the locations from the map here, or do they? (Rito and Zora could be, Gerudo and Gorons look too far away, but maybe).

These symbols still make me very curious. We don't have much clue what these locations are about.
I still hope for another 11 dungeons (maybe for optional upgrade items and not abilities), which would make this game just amazingly huge.

 

[Selarmor]

She's obviously lifting it above the ground, there's a heft to it. This is not the broken sword that one can easily hold in one hand.

You can tell it's NOT "the broken sword one can easily hold in one hand" because... she's holding it in one hand?

Swords can only be held in that way if they're heavy?

Sorry dude, there's no way to say definitely that the blade is intact based on that shot.

 

[BRRRRRING]

Talked about that theory yesterday, yes. I think this too.
I think Zeldas part will focus more on the 11 symbols we saw in the map room in the artbook. I think Zelda can form time bubbles for Link, so he can get to something in the past.

Many of the tears we have to find, seem to be attached to the four tribes and all of them had some catastrophic event in their region in the present. These don't seem to align with the locations from the map here, or do they? (Rito and Zora could be, Gerudo and Gorons look too far away, but maybe).

These symbols still make me very curious. We don't have much clue what these locations are about.
I still hope for another 11 dungeons (maybe for optional upgrade items and not abilities), which would make this game just amazingly huge.

I think it is funny how little of the artbook has been in trailers. Game will be huge, but I think that image itself suggests a larger Hyrule. We can actually see where the desert touches the sea in gameplay, and that is what the map there implies. In BotW there was no suggestion of that boundary.

I don't think the map is a huge expansion in x/y, but I think it goes out at least an extra KM in each direction. South/East so we have something to do with our boats, and West/North so there are things in the great valley/gulf, including cave entrances.

 

[Selarmor]

Talked about that theory yesterday, yes. I think this too.
I think Zeldas part will focus more on the 11 symbols we saw in the map room in the artbook. I think Zelda can form time bubbles for Link, so he can get to something in the past.

Many of the tears we have to find, seem to be attached to the four tribes and all of them had some catastrophic event in their region in the present. These don't seem to align with the locations from the map here, or do they? (Rito and Zora could be, Gerudo and Gorons look too far away, but maybe).

These symbols still make me very curious. We don't have much clue what these locations are about.
I still hope for another 11 dungeons (maybe for optional upgrade items and not abilities), which would make this game just amazingly huge.

I'm starting to think these are this game's equivalent of "Go to this location to see a memory/cutscene". I really hope there's more to it than that, but if there is I don't think it'll be a full fledged dungeon. Maybe some kind of puzzle or challenge.

 

[Horror Kid]

I think it is funny how little of the artbook has been in trailers. Game will be huge, but I think that image itself suggests a larger Hyrule. We can actually see where the desert touches the sea in gameplay, and that is what the map there implies. In BotW there was no suggestion of that boundary.

I don't think the map is a huge expansion in x/y, but I think it goes out at least an extra KM in each direction. South/East so we have something to do with our boats, and West/North so there are things in the great valley/gulf, including cave entrances.

Would be nice, but I think people have already analysed this more and came to the conclusion that the sea level was just higher back then.

I think we will never really explore this map to the fullest. It probably is just a representation of certain locations in the past and those are projected from the sky onto Hyrule in the present (the Nazca lines). With the help of Zelda Link can enter the memory of these locations in the present.

I really, really doubt that we will have two complete surfaces of Hyrule and to be honest, while it sounds cool, I don't know if I would actually want to explore this in detail twice in one game.

 

[Horror Kid]

I'm starting to think these are this game's equivalent of "Go to this location to see a memory/cutscene". I really hope there's more to it than that, but if there is I don't think it'll be a full fledged dungeon. Maybe some kind of puzzle or challenge.

I agree that these location might trigger a story cutscene in the past, where Zelda is in the same location and tries to achieve something with her entourage.
If those are not big dungeons, I still believe they are more than just a puzzle. Something in between, maybe like Yiga Clan hideout.

 

[Selarmor]

I agree that these location might trigger a story cutscene in the past, where Zelda is in the same location and tries to achieve something with her entourage.
If those are not big dungeons, I still believe they are more than just a puzzle. Something in between, maybe like Yiga Clan hideout.

Dream scenario is that going to these locations lets you activate a quest where you play as Zelda in the past, which then affects something for Link in the present.

 

[Horror Kid]

Dream scenario is that going to these locations lets you activate a quest where you play as Zelda in the past, which then affects something for Link in the present.

Honestly, I don't like switching characters in games too much.
My dream scenario would be, to get Zelda's quest as fleshed out (Torna-like) DLC where we actually are exploring all of ancient Hyrule...

 

[NabiscoFelt]

I wonder if going to a location with a glyph will be what actually "triggers" it. They feel like they're too big for that.

But then not sure what they'd actually do or how we trigger that

 

[Jencks]

I'm starting to think these are this game's equivalent of "Go to this location to see a memory/cutscene". I really hope there's more to it than that, but if there is I don't think it'll be a full fledged dungeon. Maybe some kind of puzzle or challenge.

You are probably right. The Molduga one will show the scene with the elf woman blasting the army of Moldugas

 

[Mango]

I wonder if going to a location with a glyph will be what actually "triggers" it. They feel like they're too big for that.

But then not sure what they'd actually do or how we trigger that

I think they're showing the things we need to find to trigger or get whatever is shown in them. Like the temple looking one in the art book which is around Hebra kinda vaguely looks like the Forgotten Temple, so I think it's saying "go there."

 

[Skittzo]

The pirate sword and pirate ship is the main reason I don't really think it'll be "go here and trigger cutscene" there's definitely more to it.

 

[Zumikoi]

Maybe it's nothing but, I looked at the art book again. And the Gerudo designs seem to have some very similar ornaments to this ganondorf like those rings with chains on the feet. And I'm pretty sure those kind of ornamentations weren't on botw so maybe they are Gerudo that have joined ganondorf?

 

[m051293]

I think it is funny how little of the artbook has been in trailers. Game will be huge, but I think that image itself suggests a larger Hyrule. We can actually see where the desert touches the sea in gameplay, and that is what the map there implies. In BotW there was no suggestion of that boundary.

I don't think the map is a huge expansion in x/y, but I think it goes out at least an extra KM in each direction. South/East so we have something to do with our boats, and West/North so there are things in the great valley/gulf, including cave entrances.

Bear with me, as I'm just being pedantic here but an extra KM in each XY direction would be a map that's 50% larger than BOTW lol.

BOTW 8 x 10 Km = 80 sqkm
TOTK 10 x 12 Km = 120 sqkm

Even 9 x 11 for 0.5 extra km each is about 24% larger.

 

[BRRRRRING]

Bear with me, as I'm just being pedantic here but an extra KM in each XY direction would be a map that's 50% larger than BOTW lol.

BOTW 8 x 10 Km = 80 sqkm
TOTK 10 x 12 Km = 120 sqkm

Even 9 x 11 for 0.5 extra km each is about 24% larger.

Yeah, but the outer ring would likely be a bit emptier, and there to present scale better. 0.5km is more plausible, or only to the South/East. I just really expect them to actually allow the player to reach the desert/coast, or to let the player reach deeper water. You can't let players build a variety of boats and then have virtually no area to sail around. That outer ring would be way lower density, like other games that have sailing.

We've seen detail that looks outside of the old boundaries in multiple bits of footage now. I'd be shocked if the boundaries aren't farther out on at least one side (probably South, if it is just one.). S>E>N>W in terms of likelihood of expansion.



There's just a lot more detail for an area that didn't even exist in the BotW map, which agrees with the map room map.

 

[Mr Doggo]

Listening to the recent GameXplain video and I think I popped a blood vessel when one of those morons said Nintendo should gate Dunegons behind other Dungeons and shouldn't let you go to the end boss immediately.

Yeah that's a great fucking idea, let's go against the entire design ethos that rejuvenated the series and makes BoTW so easy to pick up and play. Who cares about free form game mechanics, player driven exploration and pacing when you can have an A to Z story shoved down your throat.

Fuck off with that Horseshit.

jesus christ calm down lmao

 

[Truno]

The pirate sword and pirate ship is the main reason I don't really think it'll be "go here and trigger cutscene" there's definitely more to it.

I agree. The pirate ship wasn't present in BotW, makes no sense for it to appear in TotK's map only to be used as a flashback (unless it's not actually there and the art for the pirate ship is of it in the past)