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The Dark Souls of Mario games.
E:
Or maybe i should've written it "The Dark C-ouls of Mario games", eh?
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StarTopic Super Mario Bros. Wonder |ST| It’s a Wonderful Extra Life
- Thread starter VolcanicDynamo
- Start date
The Dark Souls of Mario games.
E:
Or maybe i should've written it "The Dark C-ouls of Mario games", eh?
Top_Operation6912
Rattata
Im started world 5 right now but I have only one criticism toward this game
- Most of the wonder seed effects make the levels easy rail roads. I wish they added little bit of challenge in wonder sections. World 4 and 3 were like super easy. World 1-2 was balanced way better.
Earthbounder
Boing!
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I do feel overall it's a tad too easy. The only levels that gave me trouble so far have been the two timed platforming ones. Even Special World courses haven't been too crazy.
But, heck, this thing's incredibly fun.
Heron
The BABY
I really love how many nods to the DKCR / TF games there are. Feels like they're acknowledging the king.
Also,
level might be the most fun I've had in a 2d Mario game ever.
Criticisms would be that it's consistently too easy, especially with badges, and the fact that every level has a pretty obvious wonder flower makes them feel less like magical secrets and more "just what the level design is" if that makes sense. I can think of only one wonder flower I missed on a first play-through of a level and I'm at least halfway through the game. That doesn't take away from how great they are though.
I think my fav wonder flower so far might be:
Guess it's time to do worlds 4 and 5!
Also,
The Semi-Final Test; Pirahna Parada Reprise
Criticisms would be that it's consistently too easy, especially with badges, and the fact that every level has a pretty obvious wonder flower makes them feel less like magical secrets and more "just what the level design is" if that makes sense. I can think of only one wonder flower I missed on a first play-through of a level and I'm at least halfway through the game. That doesn't take away from how great they are though.
I think my fav wonder flower so far might be:
The dragon bones turning into the dragon from the neverending story lol. What a ride
Guess it's time to do worlds 4 and 5!
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I’ve got $15-20 earmarked for Luigi U style DLC on this game. Make it happen Nintendo.
Also it’s funny that they would nuke the timer before lives
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Getting a 1up gives off that sweet dopamine be it from finding a secret area or getting 100 coins.
The timer is almost always a non factor outside of speed run type levels or challenges with intentionally short timers, the latter Wonder has in spades.
Valentonis
Rattata
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- Any/All
As I'm playing it I'm genuinely curious as to what even is the argument against this being the best 2D Mario game, besides preferring the physics of the earlier games in a vacuum. The recency bias is real, but as an overall package, this is unprecedented stuff for 2D Mario.
thaluanttt
Rattata
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This game is a masterpiece. I think the most logical comparison would be 3D Mario given the many elements from those titles that are in this one but while i was playing co-op it reminded me of It Takes Two.
It Takes Two always surprising gameplay styles and setpieces will put a smile in anyone playing, and the Wonder Flowers gave me a similar feeling.
2d Mario co-op is not perfect, it can be frustating even in this game but damn it is fun.
It Takes Two always surprising gameplay styles and setpieces will put a smile in anyone playing, and the Wonder Flowers gave me a similar feeling.
2d Mario co-op is not perfect, it can be frustating even in this game but damn it is fun.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Easy to argue
- Bosses in this game are very uninspired and uninteresting, maybe the worst bosses in the entire history of 2D Mario
- The wonder seeds are very gimmicky, hurt the pacing of almost every level, and really lose their luster on replay
- The badge system is unbalanced with some badges completely breaking certain challenges
- The ost is (imo) one of the weakest in Mario history
The game is fantastic, but I can't imagine myself replaying it as much as I do world or NSMBU due to the wonder seed gimmicks being so intrusive.
Top_Operation6912
Rattata
I wish there were secrets levels in level 5 and some bosses.. Its feels like world 3 but with more challenging levels which is great.
yup. He doubled down on the c-team comment because it sold like 62% less than ToTK.
Dude's a clown lmao.
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OMG Nate posted a sarcastic (I assume, knowing what he's like on twitter) C-Team comment on that, and Dring responded sincerely, trying to pivot "C-Team" into being a compliment or something
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My thoughts on the Wonder seeds are that they're about as good as you can possibly expect without every one just flat out being a 10/10, after most of Odyssey's transformations felt perfunctory and mouthful mode mostly felt gimmicky, the Wonder mechanics actually change the way you play the game in some pretty awesome ways and feel like they finally got transformations right. I think being 2D really helps here since it almost forces you to engage with the mechanic in some meaningful ways.
That being said, it's VERY obvious when a Wonder mechanic is just a gimmick, which is unfortunately becoming more consistent the further I get in the game. The move up vertically then fall as the Wonder power dissipates for example has already been used like 3 times. I think the repetition of the Wonder power, as well as some other small snags, is what's stopping it from being a 10/10 and instead being more a 9/10. Still my favorite 2D Mario so far.
Mario Wonder is for me really like a "wonder". 1 1/2 Years ago i got my Steam Deck and started to play more PC Games again. Then half a year ago my gf surprised me with the Zelda Switch OLED which already got me again more into Nintendo (not that i was ever fully gone but i played way less nintendo related games). But now Mario Wonder really shows me again why i always was such a huge Nintendo Fan. The Game is just pure joyful fun. It almost felt like coming "home" playing it and all the sudden i feel so hooked to my Switch again.
We really life in dark times right now (crises, war and so on) but playing a game like mario wonders just makes me feel pure happiness.
We really life in dark times right now (crises, war and so on) but playing a game like mario wonders just makes me feel pure happiness.
OP
OP
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One thing I really appreciate about SMB Wonder is that every world has a strong sense of place, as conveyed both by the courses and the Poplins.
We have worlds divided up into small sections with shared aesthetics and themes. We get to see the themes evolve as you progress, helping each world have a satisfying thematic climax. But then we have the Poplins reinforce a little story for each area, with most worlds starting with a Poplin House for further context. In Fluff-Puff Peaks, you're helping to liberate a famous tourist attraction from Bowser, and you see folks trapped climbing up the mountain and hoping to see the summit again. They mention how they'll enjoy yodeling again at the top, and of course when you beat the castle, you get to see them all yodel. Even the Talking Flower joins in! The Petal Isles feature an angler who can't fish anymore due to Castle Bowser and Sparkling Falls takes on a peaceful approach - no castle, instead you are challenged by a Poplin Master to scale the falls, with the Royal Seed as a reward. Makes me curious for the last few areas.
Given how game-y 2D Mario worlds are, it's nice to see the Flower Kingdom as an actual place, where playing these courses is shown to help people and locations have just enough meaning to feel important. It's a small touch, mind you. These are deliberately light stories, not exactly heavy in depth or characterization. But it's charming. The develops of SMB Wonder want to make you smile, make you laugh. And they largely succeed!
We have worlds divided up into small sections with shared aesthetics and themes. We get to see the themes evolve as you progress, helping each world have a satisfying thematic climax. But then we have the Poplins reinforce a little story for each area, with most worlds starting with a Poplin House for further context. In Fluff-Puff Peaks, you're helping to liberate a famous tourist attraction from Bowser, and you see folks trapped climbing up the mountain and hoping to see the summit again. They mention how they'll enjoy yodeling again at the top, and of course when you beat the castle, you get to see them all yodel. Even the Talking Flower joins in! The Petal Isles feature an angler who can't fish anymore due to Castle Bowser and Sparkling Falls takes on a peaceful approach - no castle, instead you are challenged by a Poplin Master to scale the falls, with the Royal Seed as a reward. Makes me curious for the last few areas.
Given how game-y 2D Mario worlds are, it's nice to see the Flower Kingdom as an actual place, where playing these courses is shown to help people and locations have just enough meaning to feel important. It's a small touch, mind you. These are deliberately light stories, not exactly heavy in depth or characterization. But it's charming. The develops of SMB Wonder want to make you smile, make you laugh. And they largely succeed!
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The sense of place is one of my favorite things about this game, and you've described it perfectly! I also adore the scale they play with, and willingness to break convention (eg in world 3 and 4 for what I've seen so far). Yet again it injects some of the 3D Mario magic into 2D Mario... but in a much different way than 3D World! LOL.
It's funny, I've seen the feedback that people want a more "cohesive" overworld without loading screens... but to me this feels way more cohesive than NSMBU's overworld map ever did. I never really understood the purpose of a proper map there, as it felt very hodgepodge and slapped together just to iterate... whereas this game takes a very intentional and "just right" approach.
D
Deleted member 645
Guest
I know the games are years apart at this point but how does this game compare to Rayman legends to you guys?
D
Deleted member 645
Guest
That’s amazing.
PixelKnight
Observing the process
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Some of the special world levels towards the end of this have taken me so many tries, in particular the lava caves one where you’re a rolling ball, and the final special world level. The latter was hilarious as I finished it before the final run of levels heading towards Bowser, and so stuff that was introduced more gently there (the ship!) had me going ‘WTF!’
Cubs017
Like Like
Right? The lack of a timer and the way that it's quite easy to just buy extra lives make it much less stressful to poke around and explore. Honestly...we probably don't even need to deal with lives anymore - though then you have to find some other way to make collecting coins worthwhile.Honestly, the biggest revelation of this game so far has been how much I don't miss the level timer. It's so fun to just get into a level, take your time and look for secrets without having to worry about gettign a timeout
Cheetah6442
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The OST is honestly really good. Wonder Seeds actually enhance the level design and change how you approach it as well.
D
Deleted member 1081
Guest
1. Agreed! Though it's helpful to look across the pond at Sonic Superstars and be thankful that the worst bosses in the history of 2D Mario are just short little interuptions.
2. I don't think they hurt the pacing; if anything, they are a welcome change of pace. The first half of the stage introduces a new element, be it a specific enemy or obstacle or visual theme, and then just when you've figured it out they remix it in a fun/creative way. I thought the NSMB stages were too drawn out whereas these are much more focused on a specific idea. However, I am curious how this will hold up on replay. I'm hopeful it will be like Galaxy, which is built on a lot of set pieces that still hit because they are just so fun and creative. Only time will tell!
3. I think that's by design. I just don't use certain ones if I think they are going to make my time with the game less engaging.
4. It's not amazing or anything, but I'll take this every single day over the "Bah Bah". It's a huge improvement coming from the last Nintendo-published game I played this year (Pikmin 4), if nothing else.
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IMO, Wonder is the best Mario game, but I can see at least three arguments against it:
1. The historical take: Wonder is not as impressive in 2023 as SMB 3 was in 1988/1990 or SMW was in 1990/1991.
2. The asthetic approach: SMB3 has a particular graphical and audio presentation that Wonder does not even attempt. (SMW as well.)
3. Differences in game design: SMB3 is faster paced -- shorter levels, no collection elements. SMW has a ridable Yoshi power-ups. Both have at least some more intricate levels (particularly castles/ghost houses).
As someone who liked but didn't love Legends, I think Wonder blows it out of the water.
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Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave? Facts, better than Pikmid 4
/s ... know you just mean the music but i couldn't pass it up
Super Mario Bros. 3's "intricate" castles are terribly designed, particularly the later ones. They're often just a guessing game of where to go lol.
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Dunno what they're called but I think I like the inhabitants of the Flower Kingdom more than toads. At least more than the toads we typically see nowadays.
BlackthornOrion
#theprocessworks
My top three 2d platformers from the last decade were Shovel Knight, Rayman Legends, and DKC Tropical Freeze. IMO the only one I might still like more than Mario Wonder is Tropical Freeze, and even then it's pretty close.
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Oh for sure the game wasn’t structured around it, I just… hope they could find a way next game.
It was always a cool feeling to be somewhere you’re not supposed to yet.
And with how Wonder added bit more story to the worlds, it’d be cool if they story would adjust for secret exits if you get there early from another path.
It was always a cool feeling to be somewhere you’re not supposed to yet.
And with how Wonder added bit more story to the worlds, it’d be cool if they story would adjust for secret exits if you get there early from another path.
Yeah I definitely love that there’s actually some level of context, it does make the worlds more memorable.
People are ragging on 3&5 for being short but I think they might actually be my favorites. Each level is a banger, the little stories in them are cute, and the environment design in them is gorgeous. Might be alongside 4, which is also awesome, definitely above 1&2.
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World 4 imo made best use of Wonder's structure for exploring the map.
Mekanos
Green & Grimm
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Just realized this game doesn’t have warp zones. I get why but it stands out when almost every course-based Mario game has them. It does kind of go with the game feeling like Mario Land 2 though, especially the whole “collect the macguffins to access the castle” thing.
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I’ve always thought Nintendo should go all in on doing a brutally hard DLC for Mario platformers. Play up how hard it is in the title and marketing
I get that they’ll never make a full game like it due to the all age appeal but I think DLC is the perfect solution for that. “Hey, you’re a first timer who bought and beat the game! NOW you’re ready for this!”
I actually think it’d make a lot of waves
I get that they’ll never make a full game like it due to the all age appeal but I think DLC is the perfect solution for that. “Hey, you’re a first timer who bought and beat the game! NOW you’re ready for this!”
I actually think it’d make a lot of waves
Kartina
THE PROCESS WON
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Finished the game and this is easily the best 2d Mario, I mean
where do you find a game where even the end credits are better than other games best levels .
It really is a 2d mario game with the same quality of a 3d mario, so many amazing level from start to finish, a strangely fun overworld map to explore, it looks gorgeous, the soundtrack is extremely catchy and it’s stuck in my head since Friday, the badge system gives a ton of replayability and the game is so full of joy and charm and fun that you can’t help but smile all the way through.
Now i’ll go for the 100% and then immediately into a new run with one of the special badges.
All the small problems I had are inconsequential to what I consider one of the greatest platformers of all time.
where do you find a game where even the end credits are better than other games best levels .
It really is a 2d mario game with the same quality of a 3d mario, so many amazing level from start to finish, a strangely fun overworld map to explore, it looks gorgeous, the soundtrack is extremely catchy and it’s stuck in my head since Friday, the badge system gives a ton of replayability and the game is so full of joy and charm and fun that you can’t help but smile all the way through.
Now i’ll go for the 100% and then immediately into a new run with one of the special badges.
All the small problems I had are inconsequential to what I consider one of the greatest platformers of all time.
. My hands are freaking aching lmao.
I need a Mario Maker 3 with this toolset ASAP.
Or hell, even just a Mario Wonder Maker. I'd leave the rest of the styles behind to get everything from this game.
Or hell, even just a Mario Wonder Maker. I'd leave the rest of the styles behind to get everything from this game.
Lucifer
Like Like
Yes! Even without the wonder effect, imagine what you could do with the power ups, new physics, badges, etc. And it would look amazing on top of that since it's a gorgeous style.
Mekanos
Green & Grimm
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I somewhat disagree. I'd love more hardcore DLC, I still think they are gonna want to market the DLC in a way that casual and younger fans can still enjoy it. Maybe it will be marginally harder than the main courses but not extremely.
And the new enemies, all the new weird types of tiles and things that are just one-offs in levels. Unlimited potential!
D
Deleted member 1081
Guest
Choosing between those games as my personal GOTY will be like choosing my favorite child: It will just depend on the day!
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They did an impossible hard dlc pack for NSMB2.
Mekanos
Green & Grimm
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It depends how you evaluate "best." Is this the 2D Mario with the most robust level design and content? Perhaps, but I think SMB3 and SMW made such a huge splash that pretty much every 2D Mario game since (and I would even argue most 2D platformers) is still trying to live up to their legacies. SMB3 and SMW are not just some beloved Mario, platformer, or Nintendo games - they're some of the most beloved video games of all time. It's going to be very hard for any game to stack up that and leave a similarly strong impression for a lot of people. I think Wonder is a fantastic follow-up that really "gets" what made those games so resonant, but I cannot help but think a few aspects are a step down even from the NSMB games, and certain mechanics like the Wonder Flowers are gonna be more subjective. It's probably the strongest contender though for entering the "canon" of classic video games alongside SMB3 and SMW. It's a great game and I'm quite happy with it, a few quibbles aside. It's a game where I understand why people might prefer it to SMB3/SMW, even if I personally don't.
3D World is still the best course-based Mario game though
PixelKnight
Observing the process
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I think SMB3 also stood out from its peers on the NES in sheer scope, it’s a huge game packed with secrets and choices of what levels to complete or skip in comparison to what was largely linear titles that were a fraction of the size at the time. Whereas SMW, as we discussed earlier, introduced the ‘auto-save’ element that changed the framing from completing a run in one go to chipping away at secrets plus also had the advantage of introducing the SNES. So, at the time, both were a paradigm shift. Whereas Wonder, while it’s an amazing piece of work and endlessly inventive in a similar way of constantly offering ‘here’s a new concept for this level’, doesn’t really stand out amongst platformers in 2023 as a huge shift in quite the same way. As both it and its rivals are built on an extra 30+ years of game design and technical capability even if Wonder still comes out on top. That’s not to say it isn’t a top tier game though- more that SMB3 just blew everyone’s minds with both being head and shoulders above what came before and showing what you could really do on a NES, and SMW is so tied to the SNES launch and how amazing the leap to 16-bit was in addition to changing the framing of the series.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that, after +30-35 years of platformers, nothing in Wonder surprises me in terms of ‘I didn’t think the Switch could do that’ and ‘this changes the genre massively’ even if those surprises left me with a huge grin on my face at the sheer sense of inventiveness and playfulness? If that’s makes any sense.
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Undeniablybiased
Moblin
So happy to have Mario back to full glory. It’s been so long since it felt like 2d Mario was the complete package. It really can’t be overstated just how bland it’s been. And for so long! I know it’s been said a million times, but damn.
There’s a lot of little and big things here that make a difference, but if I had to point to one thing that really sold me on the game it’s the new enemies. Every world has new enemies and almost every level has them too. There’s also some one off enemies that are essentially just for flavor like the owls. That’s just not the kind of thing you see anymore and it made me so happy.
I also appreciate how functional so many of them are. Most have an extra little twist to them. They also did a great job of not settling, for lack of a better term. Like, I feel like a lot of the enemies are so unique in their function that in another Mario game they’d just be a special level element like a unique type of platform. It feels like they really went out of their way to make sure if something could be an enemy (and therefore have personality) then it would be. Of course, this makes the boss fights look even worse, but oh well. Just give me another game as good as this in 5 years or less and we’ll be golden.
There’s a lot of little and big things here that make a difference, but if I had to point to one thing that really sold me on the game it’s the new enemies. Every world has new enemies and almost every level has them too. There’s also some one off enemies that are essentially just for flavor like the owls. That’s just not the kind of thing you see anymore and it made me so happy.
I also appreciate how functional so many of them are. Most have an extra little twist to them. They also did a great job of not settling, for lack of a better term. Like, I feel like a lot of the enemies are so unique in their function that in another Mario game they’d just be a special level element like a unique type of platform. It feels like they really went out of their way to make sure if something could be an enemy (and therefore have personality) then it would be. Of course, this makes the boss fights look even worse, but oh well. Just give me another game as good as this in 5 years or less and we’ll be golden.
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D
Deleted member 645
Guest
This maybe a spoiler but when do you get the drill power up? There are a lot of stages I’ve beaten where I know I need it but I don’t have it yet. For reference I’m on world 2 Pokipede Pass stage. Help would be appreciated. Thanks family.
