Discussion Socialism Discussion Thread

[Monster Mash]

Sanctions may make it more difficult for Russian citizens to withdraw money or buy things.

But they also make it more difficult for Russia to buy more missiles, tanks and bombs that result in even more dead Ukranian citizens. Russia is currently having to bus in mercs from Syria because their logistics have been so badly messed up during their conflict.

I'm perfectly happy for my country to cut economic ties with a Fascistic hypercapitalist autocracy that's engaged in the most overt bit of imperialist empire building of the 21st century.

Your country is fascistic, hypercapitalist, and imperialist, though

 

[KC Hazel]

Why do you disagree?

Because Putin has made his goal clear for years, Ukraine isn't the first time he's done this and if he can keep going, it won't be the last. Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea. Putin has basically expanded the borders of his country, uses former nation's militaries and resources as his own. The scope of what Putin wants to accomplish is far more brazen than the Iraq war. Granted, neither of these things should have happened and hopefully they stop in the future.

 

[Dusa]

Because Putin has made his goal clear for years, Ukraine isn't the first time he's done this and if he can keep going, it won't be the last. Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea. Putin has basically expanded the borders of his country, uses former nation's militaries and resources as his own. The scope of what Putin wants to accomplish is far more brazen than the Iraq war. Granted, neither of these things should have happened and hopefully they stop in the future.

Britain has done Empire building all over the globe, they have an extensive history of conquering other countries

 

[KC Hazel]

Britain has done Empire building all over the globe, they have an extensive history of conquering other countries

I'm aware, my country used to be part of their empire. I was replying to someone who said the invasion of Iraq is equivalent to the empire building we're seeing from Russia. I respectfully disagree with that assessment.

 

[Dusa]

I'm aware, my country used to be part of their empire. I was replying to someone who said the invasion of Iraq is equivalent to the empire building we're seeing from Russia. I respectfully disagree with that assessment.

I believe it was a comparison between Ukraine and Iraq, not Iraq and everything Putin has done.

 

[KC Hazel]

I believe it was a comparison between Ukraine and Iraq, not Iraq and everything Putin has done.

He specifically replied to this

the most overt bit of imperialist empire building of the 21st century.

I think most of us realize that what Putin is doing are not isolated incidents. He has a long term plan and reclaiming former Soviet territories is the biggest goal. I believe this is what the poster he quoted was referring to since he specified a timeframe.

 

[Dusa]

He specifically replied to this


I think most of us realize that what Putin is doing are not isolated incidents. He has a long term plan and reclaiming former Soviet territories is the biggest goal. I believe this is what the poster he quoted was referring to since he specified a timeframe.

What you replied to said that Iraq and Ukraine were comparable.

 

[Monster Mash]

He specifically replied to this


I think most of us realize that what Putin is doing are not isolated incidents. He has a long term plan and reclaiming former Soviet territories is the biggest goal. I believe this is what the poster he quoted was referring to since he specified a timeframe.

The reason why the invasion of Ukraine is being treated differently from that of the invasion of Iraq is not because one aggressor is substantially more imperialist than the other. It's because of racism.

 

[Ostia]

If you weaken their ability to wage a long term war, they'll eventually pull out of Ukraine. That's the idea. It wasn't going to work over night, but the US has been training Ukraine for a long term occupation/government in exile style battle that will ultimately end with Russia giving up because the ends don't justify the means.

There is no instant win option, and no one expected sanctions to be that.

Also I should add, if Russia succeeds easily in Ukraine, they weren't planning on stopping there. We should weaken them now in any way we can that doesn't include WW3.

“If Russia succeeds easily in Ukraine” this is something we know is impossible, why are you crafting this hypothetical?

 

[Ostia]

He specifically replied to this


I think most of us realize that what Putin is doing are not isolated incidents. He has a long term plan and reclaiming former Soviet territories is the biggest goal. I believe this is what the poster he quoted was referring to since he specified a timeframe.

So all the US invasions over the last 30 years (not even getting into the last 50 or 60) pale in comparison to the invasion of one country that has stalled out without taking the country or toppling its government? Hell, there have been many magnitudes more deaths resulting from Saudi Arabia’s war against Yemen (which the US supports as well, btw)

This argument makes you sound ridiculous

 

[KC Hazel]

What you replied to said that Iraq and Ukraine were comparable.

And as I said, I don't see Ukraine as an isolated incident, just an expansion of what they've already been doing. Seems like you really wanna get nitpicky though. I don't think what Russia is doing is equivalent to the Iraq invasion. That's pretty much it.

The reason why the invasion of Ukraine is being treated differently from that of the invasion of Iraq is not because one aggressor is substantially more imperialist than the other. It's because of racism.

How about when Russia did this in Georgia? Why was that treated differently?

“If Russia succeeds easily in Ukraine” this is something we know is impossible, why are you crafting this hypothetical?

We don't know the outcome of this invasion, and you yourself seems to think Russia has plenty of money to fund its military. If Russia achieves their goals, which I don't think they will, they'll just build up and do it again in a few years. My point was that sanctions help make this more difficult for Russia.

So all the US invasions over the last 30 years (not even getting into the last 50 or 60) pale in comparison to the invasion of one country that has stalled out without taking the country or toppling its government? Hell, there have been many magnitudes more deaths resulting from Saudi Arabia’s war against Yemen (which the US supports as well, btw)

This argument makes you sound ridiculous

I named several countries that Russia invaded. And surely you're not comparing the role of the US in the Yemen Civil War to Russia invading countries? You think the US giving logistical support in a Civil War is empire building on the same level as Russia trying to take over a country? Just because Russia has stalled doesn't make the attempt any less vicious.

Now you're bringing up death counts and I'm not even sure why? If you just wanna bash the US for their role in whatever, go right ahead. The US is not attempting to make Yemen a part of the US.

 

[Dusa]

You think Iraq is an isolated incident?

 

[KC Hazel]

You think Iraq is an isolated incident?

Iraq goes along with Afghanistan, and I don't think those wars are an equivalent form of nation building to what Putin is doing.

 

[Dusa]

Iraq goes along with Afghanistan, and I don't think those wars are an equivalent form of nation building to what Putin is doing.

We overthrew their government and installed leaders who we liked, which lead to dysfunction in both countries

 

[KC Hazel]

We overthrew their government and installed leaders who we liked, which lead to dysfunction in both countries

I'm aware of what happened.

 

[Dusa]

I'm aware of what happened.

Uh

That's an example of nation building

Do you just not know what these ideas mean, if you are aware of what US and UK did to these countries?

 

[Monster Mash]

African countries getting repeatedly bombed and occupied by europe and the US: I sleep
Asian countries getting repeatedly bombed and occupied by europe and the US: I sleep
Latin American countries getting repeatedly bombed and occupied by europe and the US: I sleep

Ukraine getting bombed and occupied by Russia: REAL IMPERIALISM

 

[KC Hazel]

Uh

That's an example of nation building

Do you just not know what these ideas mean, if you are aware of what US and UK did to these countries?

Spare me with the condescending tone. I never intended to get into a "who is worse" debate, though that always seems to happen when someone is against Russia committing some horrible act on the world stage. I don't care to defend the US when it comes to just about everything we did under the guise of the war on terror. Never have, never will.

I simply think if the United States invaded, Baja California, for example, then said you are now the 51st state and have no say in the matter, that is a bigger act of nation building than how we install governments in other countries. If you disagree, fine. I don't care to argue which one is worse.

African countries getting repeatedly bombed and occupied by europe and the US: I sleep
Asian countries getting repeatedly bombed and occupied by europe and the US: I sleep
Latin American countries getting repeatedly bombed and occupied by europe and the US: I sleep

Ukraine getting bombed and occupied by Russia: REAL IMPERIALISM

That's a shame, you really should speak up when atrocities happen outside of Ukraine.

 

[Monster Mash]

You think the US giving logistical support in a Civil War is empire building on the same level as Russia trying to take over a country?

Didn't know that the UN considers logistical support a war crime

UN Report on Yemen: US, UK Accomplices to Atrocities, While Inaction Continues

Prof. Asad Abukhalil argues that the UN Human Rights Council's report on Yemen acknowledges US and UK complicity in the war crimes being committed, but it still soft-pedals them because the US dominates the body

therealnews.com

Must be some wild logistics huh

 

[Dusa]

The comparison was implied by Jazz when they claimed that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the most overt example of empire building in the 21st century, in part to justify why sanctions are important. Please don't suggest that you and Jazz aren't the one downplaying other imperialism to make Russia's imperialism seem worse.

 

[Monster Mash]

That's a shame, you really should speak up when atrocities happen outside of Ukraine.

I do, but sometimes racists like to come around to downplay those atrocities

Not to mention what they like to say about Afghanistan and Iraq!

 

[KC Hazel]

Didn't know that the UN considers logistical support a war crime

UN Report on Yemen: US, UK Accomplices to Atrocities, While Inaction Continues

Prof. Asad Abukhalil argues that the UN Human Rights Council's report on Yemen acknowledges US and UK complicity in the war crimes being committed, but it still soft-pedals them because the US dominates the body

therealnews.com

Must be some wild logistics huh

Your source says the US is complicit in war crimes being committed, because they are. That's what logistical support is. It's the very first paragraph of what you linked me to.

I do, but sometimes racists like to come around to downplay those atrocities as just logistical support

Not to mention what they like to say about Afghanistan and Iraq!

Racists...Guess we're getting to the ridiculous level of this debate.

The comparison was implied by Jazz when they claimed that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the most overt example of empire building in the 21st century, in part to justify why sanctions are important. Please don't suggest that you and Jazz aren't the one downplaying other imperialism to make Russia's imperialism seem worse.

I'm definitely not doing that. You don't really seem to be replying to what I'm saying anyway but I've explained my position. I've been debating respectfully with all of you, and if, and if my opinion that what Russia is doing in Ukraine is worse than what the US did in Iraq, despite both being horrible is unacceptable to you all, that's fine. You're the one who asked me to clarify and now you seem intent on changing my mind.

 

[Monster Mash]

Your source says the US is complicit in war crimes being committed, because they are. That's what logistical support is. It's the very first paragraph of what you linked me to.


Racists...Guess we're getting to the ridiculous level of this debate.


I'm definitely not doing that. You don't really seem to be replying to what I'm saying anyway but I've explained my position. I've been debating respectfully with all of you, and if, and if my opinion that what Russia is doing in Ukraine is worse than what the US did in Iraq, despite both being horrible is unacceptable to you all, that's fine. You're the one who asked me to clarify and now you seem intent on changing my mind.

You mean the paragraph that says that we also provided bombs and intel on top of the logistical support?

Also, personally, if I didn't want people thinking I'm a racist, I wouldn't go around saying ridiculous shit that sounds really racist

 

[KC Hazel]

You mean the paragraph that says that we also provided bombs and intel on top of the logistical support?

Also, personally, if I didn't want people thinking I'm a racist, I wouldn't go around saying ridiculous shit that sounds really racist

By military definitions, that's usually considered part of logistical support.

logistic support

Definition, Synonyms, Translations of logistic support by The Free Dictionary

www.thefreedictionary.com

I wasn't downplaying the atrocities the US commits or is complicit in. But I don't think this is the same thing as sending armed forces to invade a country. Those are not equivalent levels of nation building.

I also don't think I said I was bothered or care about what you thought of me. If you would like to think me a racist based on...uh whatever you based that on, that's fine.

I do however prefer to be civil and respectful with others in a debate, I was just acknowledging that it seems some of you are unable to do that.

 

[Monster Mash]

Love to respectfully explain why imperialism is worse when majority-white european countries get invaded by Russia than when my country annihilates the global south for a century

 

[Dusa]

By military definitions, that's usually considered part of logistical support.

logistic support

Definition, Synonyms, Translations of logistic support by The Free Dictionary

www.thefreedictionary.com

I wasn't downplaying the atrocities the US commits or is complicit in. But I don't think this is the same thing as sending armed forces to invade a country. Those are not equivalent levels of nation building.

I also don't think I said I was bothered or care about what you thought of me. If you would like to think me a racist based on...uh whatever you based that on, that's fine.

I do however prefer to be civil and respectful with others in a debate, I was just acknowledging that it seems some of you are unable to do that.

People suggested racism based on an arbitrary qualifier applied to explain why the majority-white country's treatment is worse than Iraq in terms of imperialism and empire building than a majority non-white country being invaded, bombed, and couped as part of a long line of colonialism

 

[KC Hazel]

Love to respectfully explain why imperialism is worse when majority-white european countries get invaded by Russia than when my country annihilates the global south for a century

I already explained it. We are talking in the context of nation building, not which is the worse action. It's why I wasn't sure why the other poster was bringing up the death count in Yemen. As I said, if you want to criticize the US, UK or whoever for the atrocities they commit around the globe, go ahead. I do it all the time.

In terms of nation building, I think Putin claiming that a country doesn't actually exist, and is in fact a part of his own country, then invades to make that a reality is a more aggressive form of nation building than any country installing governments Cold War style. Putin would essentially be taking away the countries voice. Iraq still exists as a country, they're still part of the UN and internationally recognized as a sovereign nation. I think what happened in Iraq was horrible. I never supported it and I wish the international community put us in check. But by the definition of nation building, I think redrawing your borders with another country is more aggressive. That's all. I'm not defending any wars or downplaying anything.

That also doesn't even mean one thing is worse than another, it just means one is a worse/more aggressive manner of nation building. Launching 100 nukes at a country is a worse action for example, but not a more overt act of nation building.

If that opinion is all it takes to fall into your definition of racism, than there isn't anything I can do about that. Nor will I pretend to change my mind for your approval.

 

[KC Hazel]

People suggested racism based on an arbitrary qualifier applied to explain why the majority-white country's treatment is worse than Iraq in terms of imperialism and empire building than a majority non-white country being invaded, bombed, and couped as part of a long line of colonialism

Because one country is being absorbed and the other isn't. The same way US colonialism of this continent is different from what happened in Iraq. Or European colonialism of Africa/Asia/most of the world. They were absorbed and became part of another country/empire. I personally think that is a bigger act of nation building than what was done in Iraq.

 

[Monster Mash]

Apropos of nothing I'm just gonna recommend this to everyone

Nkrumah has a lot to say about, uhhhh, "nation building"

Edit: Link to the intro chapter of the text: https://www.marxists.org/subject/africa/nkrumah/neo-colonialism/introduction.htm

 

[tetragrammaton]

I won't speak for the person you quoted but why is he responsible for the actions of his Prime Minister? I'm an American and my president who I didn't vote for or support, invaded Iraq. Does this mean I have to be in favor of all acts of aggression around the world now because my country did it against my will?

and how are the russian people responsible for putin's actions? because they're the ones hurting from the sanctions.

and while we're at it, should your country suffer sanctions as well for all the invasions and coups they constantly do?

 

[tetragrammaton]

Because Putin has made his goal clear for years, Ukraine isn't the first time he's done this and if he can keep going, it won't be the last. Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea. Putin has basically expanded the borders of his country, uses former nation's militaries and resources as his own. The scope of what Putin wants to accomplish is far more brazen than the Iraq war. Granted, neither of these things should have happened and hopefully they stop in the future.

lmao
the us has been doing empire for at last 70 years
much more brazenly than russia too

 

[tetragrammaton]

'nation building' is literally nothing but imperialism. no one serious over the age of 12 thinks otherwise.

 

[KC Hazel]

and how are the russian people responsible for putin's actions? because they're the ones hurting from the sanctions.

and while we're at it, should your country suffer sanctions as well for all the invasions and coups they constantly do?

Yes, I already said international pressure should be put on the US when we act in a similar manner, no one has the guts to do it though. If our allies started sanctioning us, the US would likely become way more apprehensive with world affairs.

I also never said the Russian people are to blame, sanctions will hurt the Russian economy, and in turn the citizens, the alternative is Russia can better fund the war to hurt citizens of Ukraine and possibly beyond. The international community should let Russia know actions like this won't be worth it in the future. Unfortunately with war there aren't any nice options.

'nation building' is literally nothing but imperialism. no one serious over the age of 12 thinks otherwise.

And no one said otherwise? I was saying there are different degrees of nation building. If you wish to use the term imperialism instead, that can be done entirely through diplomacy, or it can be done by invading another country. Those are two different things to me.

 

[Monster Mash]

Yes, I already said international pressure should be put on the US when we act in a similar manner, no one has the guts to do it though. If our allies started sanctioning us, the US would likely become way more apprehensive with world affairs.

I also never said the Russian people are to blame, sanctions will hurt the Russian economy, and in turn the citizens, the alternative is Russia can better fund the war to hurt citizens of Ukraine and possibly beyond. The international community should let Russia know actions like this won't be worth it in the future. Unfortunately with war there aren't any nice options.


And no one said otherwise? I was saying there are different degrees of nation building. If you wish to use the term imperialism instead, that can be done entirely through diplomacy, or it can be done by invading another country. Those are two different things to me.

Diplomatic imperialism?

 

[KC Hazel]

Diplomatic imperialism?

Soft power imperialism is a thing. World powers do it all the time.

 

[Ostia]

Yes, I already said international pressure should be put on the US when we act in a similar manner, no one has the guts to do it though. If our allies started sanctioning us, the US would likely become way more apprehensive with world affairs.

I also never said the Russian people are to blame, sanctions will hurt the Russian economy, and in turn the citizens, the alternative is Russia can better fund the war to hurt citizens of Ukraine and possibly beyond. The international community should let Russia know actions like this won't be worth it in the future. Unfortunately with war there aren't any nice options.


And no one said otherwise? I was saying there are different degrees of nation building. If you wish to use the term imperialism instead, that can be done entirely through diplomacy, or it can be done by invading another country. Those are two different things to me.

You have a woefully inadequate understanding of imperialism

 

[KC Hazel]

You have a woefully inadequate understanding of imperialism

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.lexico.com

A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.


Guess it's not just me.

 

[Monster Mash]

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.lexico.com

A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.


Guess it's not just me.

Unless you think a definition from lexico.com is adequate understanding of imperialism, you just did a great job demonstrating his point. The level of understanding you're demonstrating is that you...read a definition from a dictionary.

Here I am reading Neo-Colonialism and Wretched of the Earth like some kind of ditz when all I had to do was check the dictionary.

 

[Ostia]

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.lexico.com

A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.


Guess it's not just me.

Proving my point lmao

 

[KC Hazel]

Unless you think a definition from lexico.com is adequate understanding of imperialism, you just did a great job demonstrating his point. The level of understanding you're demonstrating is that you...read a definition from a dictionary.

Here I am reading Neo-Colonialism and Wretched of the Earth like some kind of ditz when all I had to do was check the dictionary.

I linked you to the definition, which backs up what I said. I could give plenty of examples but I'm starting to realize there is no point. You all insist on talking down to me and when I back up what I'm saying, you double down, as if you know better the meaning of a word than the actual dictionary. You all are mean, cynical and seemingly arguing in bad faith. I really hope this isn't how the OT board is around here. You guys are doing all of this over the idea that I think what US did in Iraq and what Russia is doing in Ukraine are different things, with both being terrible.

Proving my point lmao

This is the type of post one makes when they've been proven wrong and have no actual response.

 

[Monster Mash]

 

[Dusa]

Dawg, your only evidence is a dictionary definition. Contribute some relevant examples. "It can be defined this way" well pepper spray can be defined as a stun gun but people would look at you funny if you did

 

[tetragrammaton]

Yes, I already said international pressure should be put on the US when we act in a similar manner, no one has the guts to do it though. If our allies started sanctioning us, the US would likely become way more apprehensive with world affairs.

oh no no no, not just international pressure. if russia invading ukraine justifies completely trying to destroy russia as a country and immiserate all its people, remove it from everything including history and even justify supporting nazis to fight it, then the retribution for us's actions in the past 70 years should be nothing short of the complete obliteration of your country and its people. well, excepting the native people you genocided and the black folks you enslaved.

 

[KC Hazel]

Dawg, your only evidence is a dictionary definition. Contribute some relevant examples. "It can be defined this way" well pepper spray can be defined as a stun gun but people would look at you funny if you did

I didn't really think it required examples since it wasn't really relevant to the discussion. I was just clarifying that there are different levels of imperialism and mentioned and they aren't all equal. You guys decided to nitpick the fact that I said imperialism can be done via diplomacy, so I simply linked to the definition which supports that. In my mind I was just trying to clarify something but now I can see you guys are intent on trying to pick apart my posts to prove me wrong about anything.

An example of this would be Hong Kong becoming a special territory of China. A territory transfer done entirely through diplomatic means, and the Chinese government slowly imposing their will on the people of Hong Kong, despite the people being against it. China has also stated their desire to reunify with Taiwan by pressuring them diplomatically, not allowing them to participate in many world affairs or be represented on the world stage. Obviously China has and is willing to use military power at some level to quell protests (and apparently to invade Taiwan if the peaceful approach doesn't work)

Again, I'm not sure why these examples are really needed as I was merely pointing out that there are different degrees of nation building.

oh no no no, not just international pressure. if russia invading ukraine justifies completely trying to destroy russia as a country and immiserate all its people, remove it from everything including history and even justify supporting nazis to fight it, then the retribution for us's actions in the past 70 years should be nothing short of the complete obliteration of your country and its people. well, excepting the native people you genocided and the black folks you enslaved.

No, I'm not in favor of the genocide of the population of the United States aside Native Americans and black people. I'm not in favor of any genocide in fact.

I support sanctions in the effort to prevent Russia from funding their current invasion, not as a punishment to the citizens who live in the country. Sanctions should be used as a deterrent to stop current actions from happening, and prevent new horrific things from occurring. If the international community would put pressure on the US in the same way we did to Russia, I'm pretty confident someone like Biden would reevaluate and back off. It's not about retroactively killing citizens of the US as punishment, just about preventing the US from doing some of the horrible things we do in the future.

Since I apparently have to give examples for everything, I see it like this. The international community should sanction the US for what is happening in Palestine right now. This would force the US has to choose between most of our allies with much larger economies, or Israel, who is clearly in the wrong. In this instance I think the US would choose the rest of the world over Israel. Sanctions are then removed. However no one is actually standing up to us.

 

[Ostia]

I linked you to the definition, which backs up what I said. I could give plenty of examples but I'm starting to realize there is no point. You all insist on talking down to me and when I back up what I'm saying, you double down, as if you know better the meaning of a word than the actual dictionary. You all are mean, cynical and seemingly arguing in bad faith. I really hope this isn't how the OT board is around here. You guys are doing all of this over the idea that I think what US did in Iraq and what Russia is doing in Ukraine are different things, with both being terrible.


This is the type of post one makes when they've been proven wrong and have no actual response.

No I’m pretty sure that’s posting dictionary definitions lol

 

[Ostia]

I didn't really think it required examples since it wasn't really relevant to the discussion. I was just clarifying that there are different levels of imperialism and mentioned and they aren't all equal. You guys decided to nitpick the fact that I said imperialism can be done via diplomacy, so I simply linked to the definition which supports that. In my mind I was just trying to clarify something but now I can see you guys are intent on trying to pick apart my posts to prove me wrong about anything.

An example of this would be Hong Kong becoming a special territory of China. A territory transfer done entirely through diplomatic means, and the Chinese government slowly imposing their will on the people of Hong Kong, despite the people being against it. China has also stated their desire to reunify with Taiwan by pressuring them diplomatically, not allowing them to participate in many world affairs or be represented on the world stage. Obviously China has and is willing to use military power at some level to quell protests (and apparently to invade Taiwan if the peaceful approach doesn't work)

Again, I'm not sure why these examples are really needed as I was merely pointing out that there are different degrees of nation building.


No, I'm not in favor of the genocide of the population of the United States aside Native Americans and black people. I'm not in favor of any genocide in fact.

I support sanctions in the effort to prevent Russia from funding their current invasion, not as a punishment to the citizens who live in the country. Sanctions should be used as a deterrent to stop current actions from happening, and prevent new horrific things from occurring. If the international community would put pressure on the US in the same way we did to Russia, I'm pretty confident someone like Biden would reevaluate and back off. It's not about retroactively killing citizens of the US as punishment, just about preventing the US from doing some of the horrible things we do in the future.

Since I apparently have to give examples for everything, I see it like this. The international community should sanction the US for what is happening in Palestine right now. This would force the US has to choose between most of our allies with much larger economies, or Israel, who is clearly in the wrong. In this instance I think the US would choose the rest of the world over Israel. Sanctions are then removed. However no one is actually standing up to us.

I highly doubt that if the rest of the world started sanctioning the US over what’s happening in Palestine, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and the way the US treats migrants that you would be posting in support of it.

 

[Monster Mash]

I highly doubt that if the rest of the world started sanctioning the US over what’s happening in Palestine, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and the way the US treats migrants that you would be posting in support of it.

Well you never know. Sanctions mostly affect the poor, so I could see someone who is like a rich landlord or something being ok riding things out

 

[KC Hazel]

I highly doubt that if the rest of the world started sanctioning the US over what’s happening in Palestine, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and the way the US treats migrants that you would be posting in support of it.

OK? It's not like you know me or anything. I sponsor 4 Palestinian refugees through Journey's End and was going to do the same for Syrians through another program that was killed by Trump. I'm quite active in supporting those who need my help, I'm very much willing to sacrifice to accomplish this. But you've already made up your mind about me as a person based on very little.

I also think, as I said, the US would strongly reconsider their actions under these sanctions. The ends simply don't justify the means for the US. Our economic status is far more important than anything else, and if that were challenged I think Biden would back down. I'd love for someone to stand up to us without blowing us up.

Well you never know. Sanctions mostly affect the poor, so I could see someone who is like a rich landlord or something being ok riding things out

Not a landlord anymore. Still rich though.

 

[Monster Mash]

Not a landlord anymore

Congrats!

 

[KC Hazel]

Congrats!

Thanks, real estate market was really kind to me.