Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

[VDenter]

Care to elaborate? This doesn't explain to anyone why it's an error.

It makes sense if you don't know the context that it's the Goomba king and that the Goomba's are chestnuts, which you'd assume the translators would.

I mean in the sense that some context was lost to players outside of Japan. The joke is that Luigi's Adventure is hilariously low stake when you see that he's talking about the Goomba King, the piss easy essentially tutorial boss from the first Paper Mario game. So they should have just had him called Goomba King, like he’s called in the English version of PM64. Chestnut King seemed like a weird oversight.

 

[VintoWin]

I'm confused because

Kuri Ou (Chestnut king) -and- Kuribo- Ou (Goomba king)

cannot be confused by any translator. There's literally no way. I'd love to see the original Japanese text. Feels like a misunderstanding here.

AH this maybe. So they replace "bou" with Kingu suffix. Yeah then this should be obvious. It's like saying "Goomking" though technically

クリキング Kuri Kingu

 

[Cheetah6442]

I mean in the sense that some context was lost to players outside of Japan. The joke is that Luigi's Adventure is hilariously low stake when you see that he's talking about the Goomba King, the piss easy essentially tutorial boss from the first Paper Mario game. So they should have just had him called Goomba King, like he’s called in the English version of PM64. Chestnut King seemed like a weird oversight.

I guess they just decided they wanted to give the illusion of Luigi having a grand adventure and letting you figure out if he's bluffing or not.

 

[VDenter]

I'm confused because

Kuri Ou (chestnut king) -and- Kuribo- Ou (goomba king)

cannot be confused by any translator. There's literally no way. I'd love to see the original Japanese text. Feels like a misunderstanding here.

My point is that the English version of TTYD both original and the remake should have named "The Chestnut King" as "Goomba King" That way english players who played PM64 would know with 100% certainty who Luigi is refrencing. Because in the English version of Paper Mario 64 he's called "Goomba King" not "Chestnut King" Part of the joke is lost if you don't know who Luigi is talking about.

 

[VintoWin]

My point is that the English version of TTYD both original and the remake should have named "The Chestnut King" as "Goomba King" That way english players who played PM64 would know with 100% certainty who Luigi is refrencing. Because in the English version of Paper Mario 64 he's called "Goomba King" not "Chestnut King" Part of the joke is lost if you don't know who Luigi is talking about.

Still need to see what the Japanese text says to be sure.

I'm guessing it's Kuri-Kingu?

EDIT: Yeah ⇩

クリキング​

エクレア姫をさらった魔物。今作のラスボスポジ。「ヘイトソング・タワー」を根城としている。

口伝いでしか登場しないため『マリオストーリー』に出てきたクリキングと同一なのかは不明。海外名は「Chestnut King」となっており（従来は「Goomba King」→「Goomboss」）、その正体の件も兼ねてクリボーとは関係ない同名の別人かもしれない…？

Yeah. Well the issue is that it is technically "GOOMKING" not "GOOMBA KING" so that's why translator got confused. It's a portmanteau.
Where "goom" could be "chestnut" instead. Douonigigo, it's a Homonym.

Although this Japanese person is also suggesting it might have no relation to goombas lol. So who knows.

Even the Japanese are unsure if it is Goomking.

I'd hope the actual translator has better sources than we do and can ask the writer.

 

[Concernt]

Just woke up and I’m trying to process all this but they did “the Paper Mario Thousand Year Door game” thing ahhhhh

"The Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door Game".

Hateful conduct tbh

 

[Razgriz]

I mean in the sense that some context was lost to players outside of Japan. The joke is that Luigi's Adventure is hilariously low stake when you see that he's talking about the Goomba King, the piss easy essentially tutorial boss from the first Paper Mario game. So they should have just had him called Goomba King, like he’s called in the English version of PM64. Chestnut King seemed like a weird oversight.

PM64 to TTYD consistency errors are hardly exclusive to Luigi's adventure. There's a bunch of minor translation errors when it comes to locations and unique species from the previous game. The main one that jumps to mind is a phone message you receive after the credits roll that is essentially a giant "here's where the minor NPCs are now" that is laden with references to PM64's dungeons.

Pretty much all of those references were mangled in the English release, and somewhere else they mangled the name of Toad Town which was literally translated to Mushroom town.

 

[ZaSpai]

The other thing to consider is (at least based on my memory of the original game) the context of Luigi’s adventures is a Waffle Kingdom and a Princess Eclair in English. Not sure what the Japanese text uses, but it regardless feels very intentional to continue the overt food theming with a Chestnut King, no matter if the parody to Mario’s PM64 fight vs the Goomba King was intentional or not.

 

[VintoWin]

The other thing to consider is (at least based on my memory of the original game) the context of Luigi’s adventures is a Waffle Kingdom and a Princess Eclair in English. Not sure what the Japanese text uses, but it regardless feels very intentional to continue the overt food theming with a Chestnut King, no matter if the parody to Mario’s PM64 fight vs the Goomba King was intentional or not.

It is the same.

It makes more sense for it to not be the Goomking... lol.

I'll have to read the whole adventure again but like... idk.

The above post makes it clear that even Japanese people are unsure if it is supposed to be the Goomking from PM64 or not. It's not clear enough language.
Unless the story itself makes it clear. Context is always appreciated.

 

[Hailinel]

Still need to see what the Japanese text says to be sure.

I'm guessing it's Kuri-Kingu?

EDIT: Yeah ⇩

クリキング​

エクレア姫をさらった魔物。今作のラスボスポジ。「ヘイトソング・タワー」を根城としている。

口伝いでしか登場しないため『マリオストーリー』に出てきたクリキングと同一なのかは不明。海外名は「Chestnut King」となっており（従来は「Goomba King」→「Goomboss」）、その正体の件も兼ねてクリボーとは関係ない同名の別人かもしれない…？

Yeah. Well the issue is that it is technically "GOOMKING" not "GOOMBA KING" so that's why translator got confused. It's a portmanteau.

Although this Japanese person is also suggesting it might have no relation to goombas lol. So who knows.

Even the Japanese are unsure if it is Goomking.

I'd hope the actual translator has better sources than we do and can ask the writer.

It really just seems to come down to Luigi doing a weird job of probable bullshiting in both languages.

 

[Jersh]

Still need to see what the Japanese text says to be sure.

I'm guessing it's Kuri-Kingu?

EDIT: Yeah ⇩

クリキング​

エクレア姫をさらった魔物。今作のラスボスポジ。「ヘイトソング・タワー」を根城としている。

口伝いでしか登場しないため『マリオストーリー』に出てきたクリキングと同一なのかは不明。海外名は「Chestnut King」となっており（従来は「Goomba King」→「Goomboss」）、その正体の件も兼ねてクリボーとは関係ない同名の別人かもしれない…？

Yeah. Well the issue is that it is technically "GOOMKING" not "GOOMBA KING" so that's why translator got confused. It's a portmanteau.

Although this Japanese person is also suggesting it might have no relation to goombas lol. So who knows.

Even the Japanese are unsure if it is Goomking.

I'd hope the actual translator has better sources than we do and can ask the writer.

Yes, クリキング is how the Goomba King's name is rendered in Japanese, as well as the "antagonist" in Luigi's story.

The vagueness is also part of the bit, imo, and there's no good way to translate that; they re-used the name but also made the character sound nothing like the original Goomba King. The localization team opted to keep the character in line with the desert references (which run through Luigi's entire quest; even his partners are desert themed with the exception of Torque) instead of explicitly making it the Goomba King when that was intentionally unclear in the Japanese script. Unfortunately, this is an example of layered Japanese word play not having a good English equivalent (in part due to earlier localization choices; chiefly, the name of "Goomba" all the way back in 1985); a good reminder that a perfect localization often isn't attainable, and that direct literal translations aren't always good either.

It really just seems to come down to Luigi doing a weird job of probable bullshiting in both languages.

And this is why I think the vagueness is part of the bit; you hear the story through three perspectives, all of which are unreliable to some degree (except maybe Luigi's partners, who also seem largely lost as to what Luigi's overarching quest actually is). There is no definitive account as to what happened with Luigi, as his perspective is focused on making himself sound cool, his partners are comically largely biased against him, and the Super Luigi book series is overly-romanticized to sell copies (and skips sections). This seems largely intentional, and leaving you with more questions than answers seems like it was the joke.

EDIT: This is also why the story would lose a little something with a Paper Luigi game that actually goes through the story; answering those questions takes away from the joke, though there's probably a needle that could be threaded to both give a definitive account and keep the unreliable narrators in TTYD funny.

 

[Hailinel]

Yes, クリキング is how the Goomba King's name is rendered in Japanese, as well as the "antagonist" in Luigi's story.

The vagueness is also part of the bit, imo, and there's no good way to translate that; they re-used the name but also made the character sound nothing like the original Goomba King. The localization team opted to keep the character in line with the desert references (which run through Luigi's entire quest; even his partners are desert themed with the exception of Torque) instead of explicitly making it the Goomba King when that was intentionally unclear in the Japanese script. Unfortunately, this is an example of layered Japanese word play not having a good English equivalent (in part due to earlier localization choices; chiefly, the name of "Goomba" all the way back in 1985); a good reminder that a perfect localization often isn't attainable, and that direct literal translations aren't always good either.


And this is why I think the vagueness is part of the bit; you hear the story through three perspectives, all of which are unreliable to some degree (except maybe Luigi's partners, who also seem largely lost as to what Luigi's overarching quest actually is). There is no definitive account as to what happened with Luigi, as his perspective is focused on making himself sound cool, his partners are comically largely biased against him, and the Super Luigi book series is overly-romanticized to sell copies (and skips sections). This seems largely intentional, and leaving you with more questions than answers seems like the original intention.

Yeah. At the end of the day, the bit is that Luigi is (probably) making up a story that kinda sorta parallels Mario.

 

[Rychu_Supadude]

I'm on board with most of the script changes, as they're clearly made in good spirit - it really just makes me excited to have another reason to play this journey again. But END OF CHAPTER -> CLEARED is awful, belongs in the trash.

As much as I'm in love with this specific release, I think there's a very real chance it'll turn out to be the last hurrah for "Classic Paper Mario" rather than the return to form so many people desperately want. The divide that keeps me from being able to enjoy Origami King for what it is is very much that the games were originally presented as "adventures of the real Mario", and I don't think Nintendo/IS are going to back down on keeping future games in an alternate crafty universe. So I'll probably just stick with this one for another 20 years.

 

[Jersh]

Yeah. At the end of the day, the bit is that Luigi is (probably) making up a story that kinda sorta parallels Mario.

The discrepancies in how Luigi ends the story and how the book ends the story actually lends credit to the idea that the magical compass thing wasn't something Luigi made up, I think; he totally glosses over but still admits that

Spoiler: Luigi's Quest Spoilers I guess lol

the Chestnut King wasn't the real big bad, and the most likely reason he would gloss over that is because he doesn't want to admit to Mario that the Chestnut King was Princess Eclair's fiancee, and he went on this entire grand quest to save some other dude's girl (who Luigi was clearly into by his own indirect admission).

Of course, you could also argue that the version as told in the book was a twist made to satisfy readers, or something else that lends credit to the idea that it was all made up. The fact that his partners never once mention the compass pieces or Eclair was likely done intentionally to keep that interpretation valid.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

The tavern patrons got a weird but not unwelcome expansion to their dialogue. The bob-omb now goes on a philosophical rant about how not every Bob-Omb needs to explode and that there are others like him. The Mouse guy mentions his pining for the Boo receptionist at the parlor.

I dig expanded dialogue.

There's also a definite change to the pace of dialogue. The mouse guy's "..." "..." are now separate speech bubbles whereas they were part of the larger dialogue box before. This I suspect is more due to the nature of this game's translation being done cocurrently with the Japanese release so the team is taking into account more tailor-made changes to dialogue pacing.

This is that nerdy stuff I live for overanalyzing.

 

[ILikeFeet]

game is 900p with no AA

 

[VintoWin]

game is 900p with no AA

Yay more stuff for people that were never going to buy it anyways to complain about

Jk jk, but I am dreading even more negative discourse about a franchise that by some miracle is attempting to be resurrected and I really don't want it to be botched.

 

[bloopland33]

The tavern patrons got a weird but not unwelcome expansion to their dialogue. The bob-omb now goes on a philosophical rant about how not every Bob-Omb needs to explode and that there are others like him. The Mouse guy mentions his pining for the Boo receptionist at the parlor.

I dig expanded dialogue.

There's also a definite change to the pace of dialogue. The mouse guy's "..." "..." are now separate speech bubbles whereas they were part of the larger dialogue box before. This I suspect is more due to the nature of this game's translation being done cocurrently with the Japanese release so the team is taking into account more tailor-made changes to dialogue pacing.

This is that nerdy stuff I live for overanalyzing.

That sounds pretty great, what did the bob-omb say originally in English?

game is 900p

normally don't mind 900p but I love TTYD so this is big disappoint

 

[Mer.Saloon]

That sounds pretty great, what did the bob-omb say originally in English?

normally don't mind 900p but I love TTYD so this is big disappoint

"Oy. I used to sail around and run wild in me younger days, but I'm a reformed sailor now. I used to go 'round explodin' all over the place without givin' it much thought."

"Oy. I used to sail around and run wild in me younger days, but I'm a reformed sailor now. But then I got to thinkin' is blowin' up a part of the national Bob-omb identity? Now I figured... There must be lots o' bloke bein' all Bob-omb-ish without blowin' up! It was after I realized that that I quit blowin' up all the time. It was an eye-opener."

 

[ILikeFeet]

normally don't mind 900p but I love TTYD so this is big disappoint

this is one of those areas where having a ton of alpha tested geometry causes problems. less pixels to test, the faster your renders. probably just couldn't fit a higher res into the render window

 

[MusicProposition]

Yay more stuff for people that were never going to buy it anyways to complain about

Jk jk, but I am dreading even more negative discourse about a franchise that by some miracle is attempting to be resurrected and I really don't want it to be botched.

huh? I preordered and I'm really looking forward to the release but 900p/30 definitely bugs me.

 

[VintoWin]

huh? I preordered and I'm really looking forward to the release but 900p/30 definitely bugs me.

Yeah I know. It's not the best. But you just know there will be angry ruckus about this.

 

[Dragoncaine]

huh? I preordered and I'm really looking forward to the release but 900p/30 definitely bugs me.

Yeah, this is one where the compromise in framerate definitely felt like it was to max out resolution. Game still looks gorgeous though

 

[VDenter]

I guess they just decided they wanted to give the illusion of Luigi having a grand adventure and letting you figure out if he's bluffing or not.

The vagueness is also part of the bit, imo, and there's no good way to translate that; they re-used the name but also made the character sound nothing like the original Goomba King. The localization team opted to keep the character in line with the desert references (which run through Luigi's entire quest; even his partners are desert themed with the exception of Torque) instead of explicitly making it the Goomba King when that was intentionally unclear in the Japanese script. Unfortunately, this is an example of layered Japanese word play not having a good English equivalent (in part due to earlier localization choices; chiefly, the name of "Goomba" all the way back in 1985); a good reminder that a perfect localization often isn't attainable, and that direct literal translations aren't always good either.

Yeah true I suppose it is possible that the original intent wasn't even for it to be Goomba King, but who knows, there are some errors with the original translation as Razgriz pointed with regards to references to the original Paper Mario, so this always seemed to me like one of those instances that they just didn't catch originally.

game is 900p with no AA

I seem to recall Origami King ran at 900p with no AA too. So, I guess this isn’t all too surprising to me, and i think some people called it from the first reveal trailer. Another reason why I expected 60FPS to be a given tbh.

Can only hope a Switch 2 patch/upgrade path becomes available sooner rather than later.

 

[Dragoncaine]

 

[Truno]

Enemies laugh at you when you get hit by stage hazards lol

 

[Brofield]

Not sure if its been brought up yet, but they’ve added new pipes within levels too, which might be what the Nintendo rep meant when they told GVG that backtracking was addressed in some capacity but didn’t elaborate on how.

Truthfully I'm surprised no one else commented that it now costs 10 coins to restore your HP and FP now. Kind of a nice change if it helps up the difficulty a smidge without making it entirely inaccessible

 

[Dragoncaine]

Truthfully I'm surprised no one else commented that it now costs 10 coins to restore your HP and FP now. Kind of a nice change if it helps up the difficulty a smidge without making it entirely inaccessible

Remind me, didn't the rates change throughout the game in the original or was it fixed?

 

[Jersh]

Truthfully I'm surprised no one else commented that it now costs 10 coins to restore your HP and FP now. Kind of a nice change if it helps up the difficulty a smidge without making it entirely inaccessible

Heart blocks always cost money in TTYD and their costs varied. That particular block didn't actually exist in the original, so even though it's relatively expensive for Chapter 1, I'd argue it makes it easier.

 

[Jersh]

Yeah true I suppose it is possible that the original intent wasn't even for it to be Goomba King, but who knows, there are some errors with the original translation as Razgriz pointed with regards to references to the original Paper Mario, so this always seemed to me like one of those instances that they just didn't catch originally.

There 100% were non-vague references that were missed in the original translation; hopefully these are rectified.

 

[Brofield]

Remind me, didn't the rates change throughout the game in the original or was it fixed?

Heart blocks always cost money in TTYD and their costs varied. That particular block didn't actually exist in the original, so even though it's relatively expensive for Chapter 1, I'd argue it makes it easier.

...weren't they always free in TTYD?

I swear all I remember was jumping under them multiple times even if they did nothing just because it was there. I don't recall them charging coins before

 

[Jersh]

...weren't they always free in TTYD?

Just the original Paper Mario. They all charge a varying amount of coins in TTYD (to be clear, the coins are set per block, and different blocks cost different amounts).

 

[Brofield]

Just the original Paper Mario. They all charge a varying amount of coins in TTYD (to be clear, the coins are set per block, and different blocks cost different amounts).

Huh, well I guess I learned something new lol

Which reminds me I really do need to finish PM64 on NSO; I'm only on Chapter 6 of my replay lol

 

[Mer.Saloon]

Been confirmed, Goombella no longer calls Ms. Mowz a floozy.

 

[Truno]

Considering that Floozy is another word for slut, I would've been surprised if Nintendo kept it in.

I'm pretty sure even the original version that released in the UK censored it

 

[Cheetah6442]

Been confirmed, Goombella no longer calls Ms. Mowz a floozy.

This is a good call since the definition of floozy is well.....

 

[ze_]

The tavern has its own theme now? Reminds me of the pirates' song from Colour Splash.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

This is a good call since the definition of floozy is well.....

Again, it's that edge/dark humor.

Take or leave it. I would prefer keep it, but that's just me. This is an E10+ Nintendo game in the here and now.

 

[VintoWin]

The new voice stuff is kinda banjo-y for some charas. I like it.

 

[JazzyFuture]

Been confirmed, Goombella no longer calls Ms. Mowz a floozy.

Figured, but source?
EDIT: oh right, Goombella does it more than just in Glitz Pit, forgot she also did that in Boggly Woods.

 

[jazzyartist]

I can understand the more mixed reactions to it, but I’m seriously digging this rendition of Rogueport the more I listen to it. Cannot wait to hear it clearly in full.

 

[Lucifer]

The new voice stuff is kinda banjo-y for some charas. I like it.

It triggers my nostalgia for BK instead of PM lol. But it's nice. Gives them all their own unique thing.

 

[Stilt Village]

Personally, I think the trumpet sound for Rogueport is actually a really inspired choice thematically whether they intended it or not (and I can't really tell what the original lead instrument was supposed to be anyway), but it's a bit jarring how it starts on full blast like that, which I think is going to create some kneejerk negative reactions.

That part sticks out a lot less in the mix on GCN. The original and the Smash remix both have this specific quality where the rhythm section in that part is louder and more prominent than the melody, and that dynamic is reversed here.

It definitely sounds better on good headphones where the trumpet isn't drowning everything else out.

 

[Weiss]

New Rogueport theme feels a little too overdone but it's fine, and I don't think exceptionally highly of TTYD's music in the first place. I'll play through at least once with the remixed OST.

 

[JazzyFuture]

I absolutely love the Rogueport remix, and I just keep thinking about how even if there's a version of a song I don't like, one of the alternate versions that plays with the dynamic soundtrack may do a part better.
Like with SMRPG's remake and how Smithy's first phase doesn't hit as hard if you don't keep up your combo.

 

[Mekanos]

It triggers my nostalgia for BK instead of PM lol. But it's nice. Gives them all their own unique thing.

Yeah it made me think of Banjo too. I kinda think the Banjo sounds work better in a game that doesn’t have tons of text like an RPG but I’ll see how it works when I play the remake myself.

 

[rickyson33]

I think I prefer the original Rogueport music

with all the battle theme variations and such I have little doubt i'll prefer this soundtrack overall though

 

[Dragoncaine]

I can understand the more mixed reactions to it, but I’m seriously digging this rendition of Rogueport the more I listen to it. Cannot wait to hear it clearly in full.

Yessss! The breakdown section that begins just as the clip ends sounds fantastic