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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread
- Thread starter mazi
- Start date
Decoyman
Bob-omb
In most respects this remake is shaping up to be a sidegrade for me; nothing to overtly usurp the original release while also not doing enough to fix the flaws about the original.
The only reason I'll still probably pick this up isn't because I want to "send Nintendo a message" by spending money on a game I've already played, but because Origami King's soundtrack was such a transformative experience and the potential that the TTYD remake might get up to par on that front is probably enough for me to want to re-experience it.
The only reason I'll still probably pick this up isn't because I want to "send Nintendo a message" by spending money on a game I've already played, but because Origami King's soundtrack was such a transformative experience and the potential that the TTYD remake might get up to par on that front is probably enough for me to want to re-experience it.
entut1
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- he/him
Modern Paper Mario games, while having their share of issues with how the battle systems work, aren't those unredeemable works you're making them look likeCan’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all isbut then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra
(Origami King has terrific character writing, presentation and an engaging story!).
For one, every single one of them has better level design (and exploration, as well as presentation) than the older games. Applying that design philosophy to TTYD is a good way to actually erase/alleviate the backtracking chores of that game.
The dialogue sounds, which are also a thing derived from the modern stuff, are used to convey what those characters sound like without relying on voice acting. It's really not far off how the Mario and Luigi games would treat dialogue sequences as well.
Intelligent Systems has been working on those games for decades. Them acknowledging their history is really nothing out of the ordinary (heck, Origami King had references to the older trilogy as well!). Most entertainment companies work hard on their products, and look at them with a certain measure of pride, regardless of their (sometimes numerous) flaws.
Truno
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The QoL improvements in backtracking, accessibility, dynamic soundtrack, animation work, UI overhaul, and potential improvements in translation make this a clear improvement. The only objective downgrade I see is the reduction in framerate.
Also, it's worth noting that Ash from GVG asked the Nintendo rep who demo'd the game for them if this game would have post-game content similar to last year's SMRPG remake. The rep responded, "You'll have to play to find out!". Ash personally believes that there will be something at least.
IGN also noted that Nintendo refused to answer questions regarding further surprises aside from the announced ones
I mean I will but still going to comment on what I think is a downgrade, or not an upgrade as it's being portrayed in the previews.
Big disagree here. Engaging story and writing was not something i found while playing any of the PM games post SPM. Even if it was there, it would never make up for the abysmal design issues. Only thing I agree with you on is that the level design was superior to PM64 TTYD and SPM, as in the levels weren’t straight lines, shame it wasn’t in a better game tho. I can’t stop IS from making references to their work obviously, but still doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with their decision when they are referencing their recent work in what I consider the last good Paper Mario game.
They aren't really applying that design philosophy to TTYD tho. The level design is virtually unchanged and unless I missed something, the most backtrack heavy areas in the game will still be backtrack heavy. It’s not like they added a warp pipe form the Creepy Steeple to Twilight Town to make the back and forth in that chapter less of an issue in the remake.
So, I think people expecting this aspect of TTYD to be addressed are in for a disappointment. They added a few extra warp pipes in the game but that’s not really what made the backtracking in the original annoying for a lot of people. I don’t expect these added warps to cut down much on the backtracking, in fact I’m interested to see a full playthrough of the remake when it comes out to see exactly how much time is being saved. I don’t think it will be more than 20-30 minutes tops from the entire playthrough. Which isn’t a lot given this is a lengthy RPG.
But again and be that as it may, I never even had that much of a problem with the backtracking of the original game but I still don't think this remake will fix the issue for those that did.
Yeah, none of this is exactly making me think that I like this, need this, or want this. At no point when playing not just old PM games but older RPG games in general did I think, man if only there was a way for me to know what this random NPC sounds like. This just makes talking to them annoying. It's like i'm playing a shitty Rare N64 collecthathon where the NPC's won't shut up. It's giving me those exact same vibes. Don't think that's good at all.
Even if you disagree you wouldn't in good faith be able to argue why adding an option to disable this would be a bad thing for those who don't like it.
Truno
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I know right? God I love it so much
james
continued history of ill-mannered behavior
i actually think its wildly ridiculous to think developers should have a toggle for anything and everything some weirdo on the internet finds mildly annoying lol
Haziqonfire
Toronto Wasteman
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My NSO subscription lapsed and I didn’t realize you need an active one to use the vouchers. Guess I’ll be resubscribing next month!
Decoyman
Bob-omb
I've already mentioned before that I don't really think much of the game's efforts to "improve" backtracking so far. I've played TTYD to a pulp already, the original warp room more or less did its job for someone who knew how to use it. Maybe it'll alleviate the Trouble Center, but frankly I didn't engage much in TTYD sidequesting to begin with. The visuals are indeed a nice improvement and I'm especially glad that they've improved at least some of TTYD's comparatively lackluster sprites, but losing the framerate of the original is still a case of the monkey paw curling its finger.
The soundtrack is the only thing I'm really excited about, but so far this is definitely on the much more modest side of "remake" compared to SMRPG. For most diehards that's gonna be fine. It doesn't really need to be much else, and I'll enjoy it warts-and-all like I usually do TTYD, but in terms of being a remake I'm generally whelmed about it.
A simple toggle to turn off sound effects is ridiculous now?
Alright.
Following your train of thought, they shouldn’t have even included the warp pipes, because some of us didn’t find the backtracking in the original all that intrusive. Guess people complaining about that were just some weirdos.
VintoWin
Moblin
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh c'mon, it's at least a diagonal upgrade.
But yes indeed, we need to send Nintendo a message.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
lmao classic Paper Mario fans truly are something else
Decoyman
Bob-omb
Nintendo Support: Contact Us
Need help? Contact Nintendo Customer Support via online chat, text message, Help Ticket, or phone 7 days a week, except major holidays.
en-americas-support.nintendo.com
james
continued history of ill-mannered behavior
incoherent, silly comparison. my point was that its silly to expect developers to cater to every tiny quibble some one might have. you said that was "impossible to argue in good faith that they shouldnt have a toggle for people who find the sounds annoying." that's a stupid as fuck premise because they cant possibly account for everything that people might find annoying.
Guess people complaining about that were just some weirdos.
honestly tho yeah, kinda. we're all posting on what is essentially the third iteration of a forum community for children's videos games. everyone here is some flavor of weirdo.
I am of the opinion that if you want to charge full price for the remaster you need at least some new gameplay content (and I don't mean QoL).
So I'll wait to see if it has it.
Having said that I generally want to replay TTYD and this probably would be the best way to do it so I might get it at a discount.
So I'll wait to see if it has it.
Having said that I generally want to replay TTYD and this probably would be the best way to do it so I might get it at a discount.
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
Well, you're the only one here moaning that TTYD now features references to a game that a lot of people like that you apparently consider a personal insult.I know right, wanting new games to live up to their past selves. We a bit ahead of the curve.
VintoWin
Moblin
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- He/Him
I do kinda agree that the collect-a-thon aspect of Origami King is like ... idk it's like if Zelda only had the koroks. I don't know why there weren't more substantial activities.
Modern and Classic are two diff genres obviously.
I wasn't opposed to the shift in genre initially.... I just don't think it was really executed all that well anyways, aside from the visuals and stuff.
If they didn't want to make RPGs anymore, I will never understand why they didn't just stick with Super Paper Mario's formula since it literally sold the best.
Modern and Classic are two diff genres obviously.
I wasn't opposed to the shift in genre initially.... I just don't think it was really executed all that well anyways, aside from the visuals and stuff.
If they didn't want to make RPGs anymore, I will never understand why they didn't just stick with Super Paper Mario's formula since it literally sold the best.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Honestly, I don’t really care about the improved backtracking, as the only time it will really matter is the General White segment, and the entire point of that segment is the game actively having fun at the players expense by intentionally wasting time, like the 100 “I love you”s. I actually find both hilarious.A simple toggle to turn off sound effects is ridiculous now?
Alright.
Following your train of thought, they shouldn’t have even included the warp pipes, because some of us didn’t find the backtracking in the original all that intrusive. Guess people complaining about that were just some weirdos.
I don't consider it an insult, I just don't like it and wouldn't have included them and don't think that was the right call. It's really that simple.
You are making this sound way more deep than it is. It's not like devs are oblivious to the fact that this remake will be compared to the original and me asking for an option to disable annoying sound effects that weren't there in the original isn't a huge ask. In the same way people who ask subtitles to be included in games isn't a big ask.
james
continued history of ill-mannered behavior
lol brother you are the one that said 'things that annoy me, specifically, should have a toggle to turn them off and no one in could argue otherwise in good faith.'
Where? Every Mario clip I've heard so far is lifted straight out of the original TTYD (and it's not clear what you meant by "there" lol).
That doesn't follow the train of thought at all. If anything, it's a completely opposing school of thought. The idea here is that including a toggle for every single change is unreasonable because there's too many changes, so the devs just trust that the changes they've made will appeal to most people. Same goes for the pipes; they believe most people will like them, so they're there.Following your train of thought, they shouldn’t have even included the warp pipes, because some of us didn’t find the backtracking in the original all that intrusive. Guess people complaining about that were just some weirdos.
If the devs thought they were annoying, they wouldn't be there at all. The problem here is more likely that they didn't expect anyone to be attached to the original generic text sound effect (though it is a bit nostalgic) in the first place, and didn't see a need to include it. The OG music, OTOH, is more expected to have its fans over the re-recorded soundtrack no matter how good it is. This is assuming the GameCube badge doesn't also revert the text sounds (though I imagine it doesn't).
(Also, what's so annoying about the new text sounds? They're not that different in cadence or coherency from the original sound, it's just a bit different for different characters. There was always a sound in the first place, so I'm not sure what exactly it is you're taking issue with.)
Despite this thread being full of classic Paper Mario fans, it's just one person in here with this mentality...
Hylianhero777
Shriekbat
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- He/Him
The backtracking complaints are so insanely overblown imo. I'd say this game is paced and structured better than 90% of RPGs and yeah the few times when it isn't are actually both intentional and funny.
I said acting like people who don't like the change shouldn't have been forced into it just because the modern PM are doing it. (Which was the argument that other user i was responding to was making) especially since Nintendo knows people will be comparing a remake to the original and implementing an option for something this minor is not unreasonable to ask. It's not like I’m asking them to change the entire game LMAO.
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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Hailinel
Musou Mania!
VDenter stands out a lot more without the permabanned psychopathy of MrBones and his army of alts.
Because the feedback for it from various customer surveys wasn't that positive.
Super Paper Mario was the first Mario game on Wii so a lot of sales were likely attributed to that.
- Pronouns
- he/him
I love the passion on display in this thread!
I'm in a weird boat where I think the two most infamous examples (chapters 4 and 7) are overblown; it's clearly the point in chapter 4, and 7 was both a bit and not that bad due to warp pipes. But overall I feel the game does it too often, and I don't think is always intentional and/or humorous. Quoting myself from earlier:
Yes, I include Chapter 4 in there, and while I don't think it's a problem in itself - it doesn't help the repeated backtracking not get more dull. Chapter 5 is one of the worst offenders that doesn't really feel like the backtracking serves a purpose either thematically or as meta-humor, and doing that off the back of Chapter 4 just makes it more pronounced.
Cheetah6442
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[/QUOTE]
I strongly disagree. Imo this remake is a big upgrade compared to the original. The only downside is the framerate.The more I look at this the less impressed I get. Not to say that I was impressed to begin with but still, the expectations just keep going down.
The new speech sounds are annoying. At first, I was fine with them but the more gameplay I watch the more annoying it gets. It’s another thing that would be fine if you could turn it off and revert to the original, but I’m not sure if they have the option for it. I doubt it tho.
I'm sure this has been mentioned but I do find it weird how they are acting like the quick partner swap is a new feature when it was in the original game. There was a D-pad shortcut in the original that let you go directly into the partner sub menu, so this “new feature” isn't even going to save time. The same thing kind of goes for the warp pipes to different locations in the game, I guess it’s a little more convenient now but meh. Always thought the backtracking complaint was an overblown issue with the original.
Can’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is
The new music is "fine" can't say it's really doing much for me. Can't believe they are giving you an option to play with the original. At least there is that, bet if the option wasn't there I would no doubt see some flimsy defense about how that's unreasonable to expect in a remake.
Really would have loved for a new difficulty mode tho, for people who played the original. TTYD is overall easier than PM64. My biggest complaint about TTYD and this remake doesn't even address it. Thanks, I guess?
This is just TTYD minus 30fps and given how well the original art style still holds up and how few gameplay improvements there are in this remake. I would have just taken a Mario 3D All Stars like emulation of the original game at this point. At least then it would play at the intended smoothness, and it would still look perfectly fine.
One thing I am glad tho is that they are more accurate to the original JP script. But still, what a bummer this remake is turning out to be. Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising given how mishandled this series has been post 2004, but I wouldn’t have ever thought they would underdeliver a TTYD Remake.
entut1
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- he/him
You will find passionate people in every fanbase. Be it Paper Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, the main 3D/2D Mario series. For better or worse.
Razgriz
I ask of you: are you my Master?
- Pronouns
- she.
I'd say the worst part for backtracking mostly comes into play if you try to go for 100% completion. You can only do one Rogueport Trouble Center request at a time, and it gets old quickly because the majority of the requests are item deliveries or just chatting with NPCs.
That's probably the worst timesink in the game insofar backtracking is a problem. Chapter 4's backtracking is entirely the point because you're moving between two locations constantly to try and figure out how to advance the mystery/horror angle of the chapter. It's what makes the chapter fun to play.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The 100 "I love yous" are hilarious, I'm just glad I have a more convenient means of getting to the location where that happens in the remake haha
slide's
Lucky bumper
- Pronouns
- he/him
edit: never mind, sorry for being snarky
but i think expressing disappointment about the cut framerate is totally warranted! the stuff they did with the music seems very cool but besides that, and as great as this looks (and i'm still probably gonna play it!) this is yet another case where i'd much prefer the original game just be made available on the current platform
but i think expressing disappointment about the cut framerate is totally warranted! the stuff they did with the music seems very cool but besides that, and as great as this looks (and i'm still probably gonna play it!) this is yet another case where i'd much prefer the original game just be made available on the current platform
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- Pronouns
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I haven't played the original, so I wasn't sure if they were rescued or not. But Martinet it is, then.
Metroid Prime Remastered is a bad example because that game looks visually stunning for the platform and retains 60FPS of the original game. So, it’s an upgrade in every sense of the word.
TTYD on Switch would be like that if it had the framerate of the original to back it up.
And the extra visual flourishes are nice but why does the compromise exist in the first place?
rickyson33
Koopa
honestly i'd be pretty upset about the 30 FPS thing too if it were a different genre
I can live with it here since it's turn based but like lets just say there's a reason i've never played Astral Chain
I can live with it here since it's turn based but like lets just say there's a reason i've never played Astral Chain
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
Multiple people have explained this to you and you've continuously brushed it off.
ziggyrivers
thunder
- Pronouns
- He/him/his
Y’know, you don’t have to continuously discuss someone’s opinion you don’t like. Just don’t react to it or push the ignore button.
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Anyways, Re: new content - don’t think we’ll get much. As for post game, did the game even have one?
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Anyways, Re: new content - don’t think we’ll get much. As for post game, did the game even have one?
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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Even if I disagree, if VDenter thinks 30fps is a deal breaker and not an acceptable trade-off, then that's fine. No reason why this argument had to be the focal point of discussion for the past four hours.
Anyway, I enjoyed playing Paper Mario on NSO, so I might pick this up. Probably not around launch, though.
Anyway, I enjoyed playing Paper Mario on NSO, so I might pick this up. Probably not around launch, though.
Razgriz
I ask of you: are you my Master?
- Pronouns
- she.
60fps vs. 30fps is a dumb argument. You generally don't notice the difference anyway if the game feel is good, which is something Nintendo usually is pretty good with.
The argument pretty much only matters for PvP multiplayer games where 30 vs 60 directly impacts your ability to react to other players. For single player, the difference is negligible. Keep in mind that there's plenty of games that ran at 20 fps or lower back in the early 3d days and those games ran just fine.
The main thing I'm worried about on that end are FPS drops, not if it hits some arbitrary number.
The argument pretty much only matters for PvP multiplayer games where 30 vs 60 directly impacts your ability to react to other players. For single player, the difference is negligible. Keep in mind that there's plenty of games that ran at 20 fps or lower back in the early 3d days and those games ran just fine.
The main thing I'm worried about on that end are FPS drops, not if it hits some arbitrary number.
- Pronouns
- He
Nothing Vdenters said was that abnormal but because people don't like negativity they had to drag it out which in turn makes it look more ridiculous because he has to then defend fairly reasonable takes .... you guys need to chill. Not every comment is an insult that needs to get dragged out till negativity is beaten out of it.
VintoWin
Moblin
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- He/Him
Pretty much... and we are talking about a turn based RPG here. Not Monster Hunter lol
Tye
All-around Nintendo enjoyer
- Pronouns
- they/them
I feel like complaining about the existence of musical references to previous Paper Mario games is kind of past the point of being “respectful” and dips into “ridiculous” territory, especially with the excessive use of cringe emojis. Like, it seems obvious that the intent of that was to be dramatically negative about newer Paper Mario games and rile up the fans of said games, so I’m not surprised that a lot of people are responding to it as such.
But also it’s been proven time and time again that people just can’t talk about Paper Mario without the discussion inevitably devolving into old Paper Mario vs. new Paper Mario, so this will always happen regardless.
Anyway, I’m personally loving the improvements to the game, especially the music! Don’t really mind the frame rate being 30 fps ’cause that frame rate is totally fine for slower paced games like this (and even then frame rate isn’t gonna stop me from enjoying a game I’m interested in), and I’d much rather the game have all of its new visual upgrades than for those to be toned down in order for it to reach 60 fps. As others have said, it’s a turn-based RPG; it doesn’t need to be 60 fps, and honestly targeting that above all else would feel wasteful to me.
