Modern Paper Mario games, while having their share of issues with how the battle systems work, aren't those unredeemable works you're making them look likeCan’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is but then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra
In most respects this remake is shaping up to be a sidegrade for me; nothing to overtly usurp the original release while also not doing enough to fix the flaws about the original.
I mean I will but still going to comment on what I think is a downgrade, or not an upgrade as it's being portrayed in the previews.I mean at this point you gotta just stick to the original.
Modern Paper Mario games, while having their share of issues with how the battle systems work, aren't those unredeemable works you're making them look like
(Origami King has terrific character writing, presentation and an engaging story!).
For one, every single one of them has better level design (and exploration, as well as presentation) than the older games. Applying that design philosophy to TTYD is a good way to actually erase/alleviate the backtracking chores of that game.
The dialogue sounds, which are also a thing derived from the modern stuff, are used to convey what those characters sound like without relying on voice acting. It's really not far off how the Mario and Luigi games would treat dialogue sequences as well.
It's like i'm playing a shitty Rare N64 collecthathon where the NPC's won't shut up.
Even if you disagree you wouldn't in good faith be able to argue why adding an option to disable this would be a bad thing for those who don't like it.
I've already mentioned before that I don't really think much of the game's efforts to "improve" backtracking so far. I've played TTYD to a pulp already, the original warp room more or less did its job for someone who knew how to use it. Maybe it'll alleviate the Trouble Center, but frankly I didn't engage much in TTYD sidequesting to begin with. The visuals are indeed a nice improvement and I'm especially glad that they've improved at least some of TTYD's comparatively lackluster sprites, but losing the framerate of the original is still a case of the monkey paw curling its finger.The QoL improvements in backtracking, accessibility, dynamic soundtrack, animation work, UI overhaul, and potential improvements in translation make this a clear improvement. The only objective downgrade I see is the reduction in framerate.
Also, it's worth noting that Ash from GVG asked the Nintendo rep who demo'd the game for them if this game would have post-game content similar to last year's SMRPG remake. The rep responded, "You'll have to play to find out!". Ash personally believes that there will be something at least.
IGN also noted that Nintendo refused to answer questions regarding further surprises aside from the announced ones
i actually think its wildly ridiculous to think developers should have a toggle for anything and everything some weirdo on the internet finds mildly annoying lol
Oh c'mon, it's at least a diagonal upgrade.In most respects this remake is shaping up to be a sidegrade for me; nothing to overtly usurp the original release while also not doing enough to fix the flaws about the original.
The only reason I'll still probably pick this up isn't because I want to "send Nintendo a message" by spending money on a game I've already played, but because Origami King's soundtrack was such a transformative experience and the potential that the TTYD remake might get up to par on that front is probably enough for me to want to re-experience it.
Yeah, none of this is exactly making me think that I like this, need this, or want this. At no point when playing not just old PM games but older RPG games in general did I think, man if only there was a way for me to know what this random NPC sounds like. This just makes talking to them annoying. It's like i'm playing a shitty Rare N64 collecthathon where the NPC's won't shut up. It's giving me those exact same vibes. Don't think that's good at all.
Even if you disagree you wouldn't in good faith be able to argue why adding an option to disable this would be a bad thing for those who don't like it.
Oh c'mon, it's at least a diagonal upgrade.
But yes indeed, we need to send Nintendo a message.
lmao classic Paper Mario fans truly are something else
A simple toggle to turn off sound effects is ridiculous now?
Alright.
Following your train of thought, they shouldn’t have even included the warp pipes, because some of use didn’t find the backtracking in the original all that intrusive.
Guess people complaining about that were just some weirdos.
Well, you're the only one here moaning that TTYD now features references to a game that a lot of people like that you apparently consider a personal insult.I know right, wanting new games to live up to their past selves. We a bit ahead of the curve.
Honestly, I don’t really care about the improved backtracking, as the only time it will really matter is the General White segment, and the entire point of that segment is the game actively having fun at the players expense by intentionally wasting time, like the 100 “I love you”s. I actually find both hilarious.A simple toggle to turn off sound effects is ridiculous now?
Alright.
Following your train of thought, they shouldn’t have even included the warp pipes, because some of us didn’t find the backtracking in the original all that intrusive. Guess people complaining about that were just some weirdos.
Well, you're the only one here moaning that TTYD now features references to a game that a lot of people like that you apparently consider a personal insult.
incoherent, silly comparison. my point was that its silly to expect developers to cater to every tiny quibble some one might have. you said that was "impossible to argue in good faith that they shouldnt have a toggle for people who find the sounds annoying." that's a stupid as fuck premise because they cant possibly account for everything that people might find annoying.
You are making this sound way more deep than it is.
Where? Every Mario clip I've heard so far is lifted straight out of the original TTYD (and it's not clear what you meant by "there" lol).Is Kevin voicing Mario there? Sounds like him.
That doesn't follow the train of thought at all. If anything, it's a completely opposing school of thought. The idea here is that including a toggle for every single change is unreasonable because there's too many changes, so the devs just trust that the changes they've made will appeal to most people. Same goes for the pipes; they believe most people will like them, so they're there.Following your train of thought, they shouldn’t have even included the warp pipes, because some of us didn’t find the backtracking in the original all that intrusive. Guess people complaining about that were just some weirdos.
If the devs thought they were annoying, they wouldn't be there at all. The problem here is more likely that they didn't expect anyone to be attached to the original generic text sound effect (though it is a bit nostalgic) in the first place, and didn't see a need to include it. The OG music, OTOH, is more expected to have its fans over the re-recorded soundtrack no matter how good it is. This is assuming the GameCube badge doesn't also revert the text sounds (though I imagine it doesn't).me asking for an option to disable annoying sound effects that weren't there in the original isn't a huge ask.
Despite this thread being full of classic Paper Mario fans, it's just one person in here with this mentality...lmao classic Paper Mario fans truly are something else
The backtracking complaints are so insanely overblown imo. I'd say this game is paced and structured better than 90% of RPGs and yeah the few times when it isn't are actually both intentional and funny.Honestly, I don’t really care about the improved backtracking, as the only time it will really matter is the General White segment, and the entire point of that segment is the game actively having fun at the players expense by intentionally wasting time, like the 100 “I love you”s. I actually find both hilarious.
lol brother you are the one that said 'things that annoy me, specifically, should have a toggle to turn them off and no one in could argue otherwise in good faith.'
That sounds like Martinet to me.Is Kevin voicing Mario there? Sounds like him.
VDenter stands out a lot more without the permabanned psychopathy of MrBones and his army of alts.Despite this thread being full of classic Paper Mario fans, it's just one person in here with this mentality...
Because the feedback for it from various customer surveys wasn't that positive.If they didn't want to make RPGs anymore, I will never understand why they didn't just stick with Super Paper Mario's formula since it literally sold the best.
I'm in a weird boat where I think the two most infamous examples (chapters 4 and 7) are overblown; it's clearly the point in chapter 4, and 7 was both a bit and not that bad due to warp pipes. But overall I feel the game does it too often, and I don't think is always intentional and/or humorous. Quoting myself from earlier:The backtracking complaints are so insanely overblown imo. I'd say this game is paced and structured better than 90% of RPGs and yeah the few times when it isn't are actually both intentional and funny.
Yes, I include Chapter 4 in there, and while I don't think it's a problem in itself - it doesn't help the repeated backtracking not get more dull. Chapter 5 is one of the worst offenders that doesn't really feel like the backtracking serves a purpose either thematically or as meta-humor, and doing that off the back of Chapter 4 just makes it more pronounced.Chapter 1: Start of Petal Meadows -> End of Schwonk Fortress -> Start of Petal Meadows (then from Petalburg -> Start of Petal Meadows after the chapter is completed)
Chapter 2: Start of Boggly Woods -> End of Boggly Woods -> Start of Boggly Woods -> End of Boggly Woods -> Midpoint of Boggly Woods (and midpoint -> start after the chapter is completed)
Chapter 4: Twilight Town -> Halfway through Twilight Trail -> Twilight Town -> Creepy Steeple -> Twilight Town -> Creepy Steeple -> Twilight Town -> Creepy Steeple
Chapter 5: Start of Keelhaul Key -> End of Keelhaul Key - > Start of Keelhaul Key -> End of Keelhaul Key -> Start of Keelhaul Key -> End of Keelhaul Key
I strongly disagree. Imo this remake is a big upgrade compared to the original. The only downside is the framerate.The more I look at this the less impressed I get. Not to say that I was impressed to begin with but still, the expectations just keep going down.
The new speech sounds are annoying. At first, I was fine with them but the more gameplay I watch the more annoying it gets. It’s another thing that would be fine if you could turn it off and revert to the original, but I’m not sure if they have the option for it. I doubt it tho.
I'm sure this has been mentioned but I do find it weird how they are acting like the quick partner swap is a new feature when it was in the original game. There was a D-pad shortcut in the original that let you go directly into the partner sub menu, so this “new feature” isn't even going to save time. The same thing kind of goes for the warp pipes to different locations in the game, I guess it’s a little more convenient now but meh. Always thought the backtracking complaint was an overblown issue with the original.
Can’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is but then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra
The new music is "fine" can't say it's really doing much for me. Can't believe they are giving you an option to play with the original. At least there is that, bet if the option wasn't there I would no doubt see some flimsy defense about how that's unreasonable to expect in a remake.
Really would have loved for a new difficulty mode tho, for people who played the original. TTYD is overall easier than PM64. My biggest complaint about TTYD and this remake doesn't even address it. Thanks, I guess?
This is just TTYD minus 30fps and given how well the original art style still holds up and how few gameplay improvements there are in this remake. I would have just taken a Mario 3D All Stars like emulation of the original game at this point. At least then it would play at the intended smoothness, and it would still look perfectly fine.
One thing I am glad tho is that they are more accurate to the original JP script. But still, what a bummer this remake is turning out to be. Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising given how mishandled this series has been post 2004, but I wouldn’t have ever thought they would underdeliver a TTYD Remake.
You will find passionate people in every fanbase. Be it Paper Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, the main 3D/2D Mario series. For better or worse.I love the passion on display in this thread!
I'd say the worst part for backtracking mostly comes into play if you try to go for 100% completion. You can only do one Rogueport Trouble Center request at a time, and it gets old quickly because the majority of the requests are item deliveries or just chatting with NPCs.I'm in a weird boat where I think the two most infamous examples (chapters 4 and 7) are overblown; it's clearly the point in chapter 4, and 7 was both a bit and not that bad due to warp pipes. But overall I feel the game does it too often, and I don't think is always intentional and/or humorous. Quoting myself from earlier:
The 100 "I love yous" are hilarious, I'm just glad I have a more convenient means of getting to the location where that happens in the remake hahaHonestly, I don’t really care about the improved backtracking, as the only time it will really matter is the General White segment, and the entire point of that segment is the game actively having fun at the players expense by intentionally wasting time, like the 100 “I love you”s. I actually find both hilarious.
Where? Every Mario clip I've heard so far is lifted straight out of the original TTYD (and it's not clear what you meant by "there" lol).
I mean if you really think it's just "TTYD minus 30" and sees the two side by side I dunno what to say.
It's like with Metroid Prime, you don't see how big the improvements are until you compare it to the original
Multiple people have explained this to you and you've continuously brushed it off.Metroid Prime Remastered is a bad example because that game looks visually stunning for the platform and retains 60FPS of the original game. So, it’s an upgrade in every sense of the word.
TTYD on Switch would be like that if it had the framerate of the original to back it up.
And the extra visual flourishes are nice but why does the compromise exist in the first place?
60fps vs. 30fps is a dumb argument. You generally don't notice the difference anyway if the game feel is good, which is something Nintendo usually is pretty good with.
The argument pretty much only matters for PvP multiplayer games where 30 vs 60 directly impacts your ability to react to other players. For single player, the difference is negligible. Keep in mind that there's plenty of games that ran at 20 fps or lower back in the early 3d days and those games ran just fine.
The main thing I'm worried about on that end are FPS drops, not if it hits some arbitrary number.
I feel like complaining about the existence of musical references to previous Paper Mario games is kind of past the point of being “respectful” and dips into “ridiculous” territory, especially with the excessive use of cringe emojis. Like, it seems obvious that the intent of that was to be dramatically negative about newer Paper Mario games and rile up the fans of said games, so I’m not surprised that a lot of people are responding to it as such.Let the dude have his opinions on the remake as long as he's being respectful, we all have our tastes and takes on development/programming decisions. Just agree to disagree and move on.
I feel like complaining about the existence of musical references to previous Paper Mario games is kind of past the point of being “respectful” and dips into “ridiculous” territory