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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Hailinel said:
My issue is that Sticker Star has been such a lightning rod point of overzealous derision and hatred for so long that I don't strictly trust comparisons made between it and other games without really thoughtful justification.
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This is valid. Paper Mario discourse has been toxic for so long that it's hard to have arguments in good faith. I wish things didn't have to be this way. These games are good and I just like talking about 'em.
 
The reason modern PM defenders can't evolve their argument is because their favorite Paper Mario games have no meaningful character progression so they're not sure what it looks like 🙊

Edit: Just because I don't want another 10 notifications of people being mad, this was a shit post. I don't care for modern PM, but I'm happy for the people who've enjoyed them, I wish I could.
 
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I always see discourse about how Paper Mario discussion is toxic because of fans of the original games, and yet every time I read a Paper Mario thread it's people jumping down others throats for something as benign as daring to suggest the new Paper Mario games share similar designs.

Maybe back when Sticker Star and Color Splash released it was the case, but nowadays it feels like there's so much "Paper Mario is toxic" brain rot that those who complain about the toxicity are the ones unintentionally poisoning the well.
 
BassForever said:
The reason modern PM defenders can't evolve their argument is because their favorite Paper Mario games have no meaningful character progression so they're not sure what it looks like 🙊
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Man I am so tired of this. I'm not particularly fond of the new games either but bashing people who like them over the head with stupid straw man arguments isn't gonna do anything. This is the same as those annoying "classic paper Mario fans when they see paper" jokes.
 
Truno said:
Also, Mario's house now displays the map of Paper Mario 64 behind the group picture with all of the partners, which wasn't in the original version. Additionally, the Remake includes Mario and Luigi's room behind the house which was present in 64 but not in TTYD:

image.png
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I wish there was more variety in the paper materials other than just glossy or non-glossy.

Like, maybe some paper surfaces could be textured (the castle, for instance), but I could see how they're tying to balance the art direction carefully with the new tech.

In any case, this looks kind of a bit early build footage given how almost all of the surfaces seem to be glossy. That, and the 30fps framerate, although the latter could've been a result to them switching over to TOK engine.

I really hope Intelligent Systems finda a way to make it run at 60fps in the final build.
 
Selarmor said:
I always see discourse about how Paper Mario discussion is toxic because of fans of the original games, and yet every time I read a Paper Mario thread it's people jumping down others throats for something as benign as daring to suggest the new Paper Mario games share similar designs.

Maybe back when Sticker Star and Color Splash released it was the case, but nowadays it feels like there's so much "Paper Mario is toxic" brain rot that those who complain about the toxicity are the ones unintentionally poisoning the well.
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I mean:
BassForever said:
The reason modern PM defenders can't evolve their argument is because their favorite Paper Mario games have no meaningful character progression so they're not sure what it looks like 🙊
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Sure, that's totally the case.
 
BassForever said:
The reason modern PM defenders can't evolve their argument is because their favorite Paper Mario games have no meaningful character progression so they're not sure what it looks like 🙊
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Look, I'm one of the most harshest critics when it comes to modern Paper Mario, but can we not do this? It's completely unnecessary. This is exactly how overly heated arguments and inflammatory comments starts.
 
Tinarg said:
Man I am so tired of this. I'm not particularly fond of the new games either but bashing people who like them over the head with stupid straw man arguments isn't gonna do anything. This is the same as those annoying "classic paper Mario fans when they see paper" jokes.
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It's a joke, and a pretty funny one. Chill.
 
Jersh said:
The atmosphere of this thread is not one where that joke is ever going to successfully land.

Honestly, I considered reporting it. It's only going to provoke people.
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Do what you must. I thought the joke was just an excuse to rag on the newer games, not the fanbase, which is why the punchline is a joke about the newer games. That's the only part I found funny. But knowing the poster's history, I don't think it actually had any ill intent behind it.
 
That whole segment with Francis in Super Paper Mario gets more prescient with each passing year.
 
Suswave said:
stoked that this is coming since I’ve never played (most) of it!

that said:

I hope someday they’ll give me my favorite Paper Mario

that’s right…

Color Splash
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Oh no!!!!!! based!!!!
 
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BassForever said:
The reason modern PM defenders can't evolve their argument is because their favorite Paper Mario games have no meaningful character progression so they're not sure what it looks like 🙊
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oh my godddddddddddd stfu, paper mario fans are the most annoying fucking people on the planet
 
begging classic paper mario fans to read an actual book with actual characters and an actual story (edit: before being so condescending and pretentious about character development)
 
Raccoon said:
begging classic paper mario fans to read an actual book with actual characters and an actual story
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This is how I felt when Origami King came out and people were hyping up its story, funnily enough. Especially the ramifications of the suicide scene.

Honestly gamers in general need to follow this advice. Most video game stories are not that good.
 
Paper Mario is a series with which I've been familiar since like.. around 2016.
I started with 64, then way later did TTYD, and Sticker Star (I think I even re-did TTYD, back-to-back with SS), then SPM. OK somewhere in the last couple of years with those last three. It's still to this day, the best Mario spin-off series I've ever played, despite all the limitations it got over the years. It still has an identity of its own. Origami King is a game with gripping locales, exploration, dialogue, characters even, and memorable story beats.
 
SiG said:
"I'm going to be disappointed if Goku isn't in Paper Mario after this comes out."

Going back on topic... What is the new added content, outside from...colorful buttons?
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I think one small change that could go a long way is a fast travel system. Yes, I get it would defeat the purpose of some of the unlockable short cuts, but it would also help to reduce the back tracking tedium that some of the later sections have.
 
BassForever said:
I think one small change that could go a long way is a fast travel system. Yes, I get it would defeat the purpose of some of the unlockable short cuts, but it would also help to reduce the back tracking tedium that some of the later sections have.
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Maybe they could make it an optional paper transformation/curse for you to find. Covers both bases for purists and those who want to streamline some of the more slow parts.
 
As someone that actually reads a lot of books, saying "video game fans need to pick up a book if they think ____ game has a good story" is an absolute dogshit take. People relate to different media in different ways and can connect to a story for different reasons, including being attached to the characters already and the ramifications of story beats in otherwise chill narratives. Some people also might prefer a visual to look at to help convey the emotion. Seriously, what's going on in this thread today?
 
Magic-Man said:
As someone that actually reads a lot of books, saying "video game fans need to pick up a book if they think ____ game has a good story" is an absolute dogshit take. People relate to different media in different ways and can connect to a story for different reasons, including being attached to the characters already and the ramifications of story beats in otherwise chill narratives. Some people also might prefer a visual to look at to help convey the emotion. Seriously, what's going on in this thread today?
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It's raccoon. Pretty sure it's mostly a joke and not that literal.
 
entut1 said:
Paper Mario is a series with which I've been familiar since like.. around 2016.
I started with 64, then way later did TTYD, and Sticker Star (I think I even re-did TTYD, back-to-back with SS), then SPM. OK somewhere in the last couple of years with those last three. It's still to this day, the best Mario spin-off series I've ever played, despite all the limitations it got over the years. It still has an identity of its own. Origami King is a game with gripping locales, exploration, dialogue, characters even, and memorable story beats.
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If you wanna know my personal opinion of the series, Paper Mario is a spin-off series that I feel largely gets ignored by the larger masses, especially when comparing against AAA blockbuster titles like Baulder's Gate 3.

I felt that, while the Direct definitely made fans of TTYD go nuts, the fact that both this game and Super Mario RPG are getting rereleases is giving me hope that they will consider making a proper new RPG title that could be held up in the same vein as Final Fantasy XVI (heck, get BOTH Square-Enix and Intelligent Systems to co-develop it!).

That said, I do own TTYD on GameCube, but I stopped playing it half-way (probably because of that Pit of Trials). I do think it has it's charm but I wonder if it will wow the bigger AAA crowd, despite IntelliSys being particularly great when it comes to its presentation, as shown by TOK.
 
Magic-Man said:
As someone that actually reads a lot of books, saying "video game fans need to pick up a book if they think ____ game has a good story" is an absolute dogshit take. People relate to different media in different ways and can connect to a story for different reasons, including being attached to the characters already and the ramifications of story beats in otherwise chill narratives. Some people also might prefer a visual to look at to help convey the emotion. Seriously, what's going on in this thread today?
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The thing about video games is that despite the story being able to get in the way of how you're playing, there is a connection you don't feel in a movie/series because you're PART of the story. That makes it way easier to relate to other characters and find the adventure more enthralling.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
It's raccoon. Pretty sure it's mostly a joke and not that literal.
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Given that I've actually seen people elsewhere agree with this sentiment and the takes that user has posted in the past, it wouldn't surprise me if they were being serious. Discussion about this game on this forum tiring me out already and we're probably at least nine months out from release, it's only going to get worse.
 
SiG said:
That said, I do own TTYD on GameCube, but I stopped playing it half-way (probably because of that Pit of Trials). I do think it has it's charm but I wonder if it will wow the bigger AAA crowd, despite IntelliSys being particularly great when it comes to its presentation, as shown by TOK.
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Look we all have our unfinished games heh, I never finished FF7/9 despite being enthrilled by a good part of their story/characters (don't kill me JRPGs fans)
 
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EtherPenguin said:
Mario's reflection on the floor isn't fresnel through. You can see when he enters the room toward the bottom of the screen and then moves up by the furnace to greet Luigi, the reflection maintains the same strength regardless of how close he is to the camera. The main thing that stood out to me was he doesn't have a reflection like that on any of the other floors and ground types in the game which would imply the floor in his house is a unique material in-universe. I just thought that was funny.
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The phenomenon is visible within the observer's line of sight along the incident rays' angle of reflection. In this case, the "observer" is the camera, and as long as a camera is pointed at a surface at a grazing angle, reflections should be visible. In this case, Mario's position does not matter, the camera's position with respect to the surface does.

Here's a video that demonstrates the phenomenon:



The only way to disprove Fresnel with TTYD is to move the camera overhead. The way the camera is currently positioned in most scenes, the floor/ground is viewed at a glancing angle appropriate for Fresnel reflections. They're visible to some degree on all the floor/ground materials I could see (though with different degrees of specularity), granted I haven't done extensive analysis on the footage yet.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
This is how I felt when Origami King came out and people were hyping up its story, funnily enough. Especially the ramifications of the suicide scene.

Honestly gamers in general need to follow this advice. Most video game stories are not that good.
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I thought the same regarding Origami King's story. That was one element that, despite the continued "mandate" regarding the character designs, I was hoping would be a significant improvement, but I really lost interest and thought the "bobby" stuff was pretty lame and for lack of a better word felt forced.

I really gave Origami King a chance, and there were parts that I loved (music and environments), but I ended up dropping the game around halfway through. And TTYD is in my top 10 favorite games ever made, so we can see what side of the argument I fall on lol.
 
JR436 said:
Maybe they could make it an optional paper transformation/curse for you to find. Covers both bases for purists and those who want to streamline some of the more slow parts.
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The simple solution thinking about it more would be to open it up right before the General White segment. I can't think of any other major backtrack segment that isn't also connected to having access to a new ability to open a short cut.
 
entut1 said:
The thing about video games is that despite the story being able to get in the way of how you're playing, there is a connection you don't feel in a movie/series because you're PART of the story. That makes it way easier to relate to other characters and find the adventure more enthralling.
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Exactly! There's been a few video game stories that have hit me harder than any book I've ever read. A Space for the Unbound, Cyberpunk 2077, and Celeste to be specific. If a user feels like a video game has a good story, who am I to tell them that "no, it actually sucks, go read a book"?
 
Intelligent Systems has much much better level design in the modern trilogy than the old games. Origami King features a whole list of pipe, fax, travel and button shortcuts. They are probably gonna fix a bunch of the backtracking problems in TTYD.
 
Tinarg said:
I want them to redo the puni AI, add a fast travel pipe between twilight trail and creepy steeple and remove the general white quest.
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People complain about General White so much but honestly

  1. It's funny
  2. If you know what you're doing and use the fast travel pipes under Rougeport, it takes like 20 minutes. Plus if you do want to make it take a bit longer but be a bit more rewarding, you can accept trouble requests in the various places you visit on the way as well.
Actually, in terms of improvements or changes we want, reworking the trouble system a bit to let you accept multiple requests at once would be pretty nice.
 
Yeah, General White is fine. For that matter, so is Chapter 4 (which may actually be my favorite one over all).

Boggly Woods though will forever suck, and no one will tell me otherwise.
 
I don't really have many wants I would want for this remake tbh. I see people talk about the backtracking in TTYD being bad and wanting that to be fixed, but in my personal opinion, I find some of the backtracking in Sticker Star and some of the newer games to be much more inconvenient for me.
I think adding stuff like the spin from PM64 would be greatly appreciated as a badge or something; perhaps have some of the PM64 partner cameos actually appear in the game this time around.
I would love for a new side story with Paper Luigi or hell even what I saw someone mention with the four ancient heroes, and have gameplay similar to that of bug fables.
I'm just glad that this game is being rereleased and remade with it being made more accessible and isn't forced to be a part of a mid-online service where you can't own it. I would love for this to lead into stuff like a PM64 remake and an SPM remake later down the line.
 
Staff post - be civil.
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    Hey everyone.
    As many of us know, Paper Mario as a subject tend to be one of those things that can cause a discussion where a variety of different opinions surfaces, and sometimes clashes. In the event of people disagreeing, always strive to be civil and see each other eye-to-eye. Responding to messages you disagree on with hostility and snark goes absolutely nowhere, and only incites further dissent and spite among your fellow members.

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  • Index
    • WestEgg said:
    Yeah, General White is fine. For that matter, so is Chapter 4 (which may actually be my favorite one over all).

    Boggly Woods though will forever suck, and no one will tell me otherwise.
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    It's like the "I love you" 100x times segment. I appreciate what IS was going for with the joke, it's easy enough to mash through, but it's a joke that gets less funny and more annoying on each replay. ThatsTheJoke.jpg and all that, but it's always a bit iffy when your joke is " this'll annoy the player and waste their time.

    I know Super Mario RPG remake is adding super bosses, but TTYD already has plenty of hard content in the pit of 100 trials and Bonetail. I suppose you can never have enough hard post game content for the die hards to theory over, but it's not as interesting an addition as it is for SMRPG remake.
     
    Hylianhero777 said:
    I thought the same regarding Origami King's story. That was one element that, despite the continued "mandate" regarding the character designs, I was hoping would be a significant improvement, but I really lost interest and thought the "bobby" stuff was pretty lame and for lack of a better word felt forced.

    I really gave Origami King a chance, and there were parts that I loved (music and environments), but I ended up dropping the game around halfway through. And TTYD is in my top 10 favorite games ever made, so we can see what side of the argument I fall on lol.
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    Just to be clear, I liked Origami King. Out of the two Paper Mario games I've played, those being 64 and Origami King, I probably prefer Origami King a little even.

    But I just don't think the story was good. I actually like the scene itself, but the scenes following it that mention it are horrible. Not to mention, the game has probably the worst excuse for a villain backstory I've ever seen. So I don't understand what people are talking about when they say that Origami King has a good story. I can respect that opinion, but it seems like a lot of the reason people think it has a good story is because its surprising it tried something so dark to begin with, which is not a reason to think a story is good imo.

    From what I've played, Paper Mario is a very cute, fun series. Not the greatest games in the world, but consistently enjoyable and very chill games. I'm wondering if The Thousand Year Door's remake will make me see what people see in the series, and why they're disappointed it didn't go further in that direction.
     
    WestEgg said:
    Yeah, General White is fine. For that matter, so is Chapter 4 (which may actually be my favorite one over all).

    Boggly Woods though will forever suck, and no one will tell me otherwise.
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    Chapter 4 is my favorite. I dislike the backtracking, but only indirectly--I wish the Steeple would have been bigger, and it feels like the backtracking was added to compensate for that.

    Boggly Woods is weird, because I actually love the first part of that chapter. The woods themselves, and the subplot with the Sirens, is cool. The tree drags the whole thing down though.

    BassForever said:
    I know Super Mario RPG remake is adding super bosses, but TTYD already has plenty of hard content in the pit of 100 trials and Bonetail. I suppose you can never have enough hard post game content for the die hards to theory over, but it's not as interesting an addition as it is for SMRPG remake.
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    I found TTYD incredibly easy even the first time I played it, because I realized early on how OP badges (especially Jumpman) were. I was really surprised BP caps out at 99. If they want to make the game more difficult the easiest thing they could do is cap BP at a much lower number, like how PM64 did.
     
    Hylianhero777 said:
    People complain about General White so much but honestly

    1. It's funny
    2. If you know what you're doing and use the fast travel pipes under Rougeport, it takes like 20 minutes. Plus if you do want to make it take a bit longer but be a bit more rewarding, you can accept trouble requests in the various places you visit on the way as well.
    Actually, in terms of improvements or changes we want, reworking the trouble system a bit to let you accept multiple requests at once would be pretty nice.
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    Ehh…it’s the sort of thing that’s maybe funny the first time but not so much on repeated playthrough and, even the first time, it’s pretty obnoxious to go through, especially while having to go around or through enemies. I’m sure if it was reworked, it could be more interesting. Speaking as someone who considers TTYD to be a fantastic game and the best in the series
     
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