Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: launch trailer, see threadmarks)

[Suswave]

While it's much better than the Wii U and 3DS game, TOK is still floating in that semi RPG space. Once the novelty wore off in the battle system it was just something that was stopping you for coins as rewards.

not to pull at threads that will only heat up the debate, but

I think Color Splash is actually better than The Origami King, and I like them both a ton

 

[Cevan]

To me it looks like they're aiming for a glossy cardstock look, like a pop-up book.
I love the new art direction. I really hope they keep it for the next PM.

I liked Origami King's art direction back when I played the game for the first time but I always felt like it was missing something. It always looked good, but now seeing how TTYD looks, the inclusion of reflective material, better shadows, and detailed textures really does so much to elevate the visuals. Origami King looks so flat and plain (which you can definitely argue is intentional considering the paper theme) but I vastly prefer the new look of TTYD. I feel so blessed they went above and beyond for this remake

 

[BassForever]

I said I wasn't going to buy this because I have the original, but damn, every time I watch the trailer I get closer to caving in and pulling the trigger.

Also, I wonder if the Paper Mario fanbase is destined to war for eternity, until the blood of our descendants causes Nintendo to intervene and say they will split the franchise in two series, one to please those who want a return to the traditional gameplay and another to those who want the series' RPG roots to be abandoned.

I bought the original day 1

I'm getting the remake day 1

No hesitation, obviously in the modern era thanks to digital it's hard for games to skyrocket in price after they go out of print, but I want a boxed copy of TTYD remake. I'd never risk the physical version of this game becoming as expensive as TTYD GC currently is.

 

[Truno]

I've seen some mentions that the track that plays around 0:10~0:20 in the trailer when we see Mario's house and Luigi deliver the letter is a new arrangement of the original Paper Mario's file select theme (which itself is an arrangement of SMW's athletic theme), which apparently didn't appear anywhere in the original TTYD.

Could be another hint at new content in addition to the purple toad

Also, Mario's house now displays the map of Paper Mario 64 behind the group picture with all of the partners, which wasn't in the original version. Additionally, the Remake includes Mario and Luigi's room behind the house which was present in 64 but not in TTYD:

 

[Jersh]

I've seen some mentions that the track that plays around 0:10~0:20 in the trailer when we see Mario's house and Luigi deliver the letter is a new arrangement of the original Paper Mario's file select theme (which itself is an arrangement of SMW's athletic theme), which apparently didn't appear anywhere in the original TTYD.

Could be another hint at new content in addition to the purple toad

This is my read as well. It's rare for Nintendo to make trailer-specific music for anything other than Zelda.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I liked Origami King's art direction back when I played the game for the first time but I always felt like it was missing something. It always looked good, but now seeing how TTYD looks, the inclusion of reflective material, better shadows, and detailed textures really does so much to elevate the visuals. Origami King looks so flat and plain (which you can definitely argue is intentional considering the paper theme) but I vastly prefer the new look of TTYD. I feel so blessed they went above and beyond for this remake

TTYD looks so much better.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Also, Mario's house now displays the map of Paper Mario 64 behind the group picture with all of the partners, which wasn't in the original version. Additionally, the Remake includes Mario and Luigi's room behind the house which was present in 64 but not in TTYD:

I've seen some mentions that the track that plays around 0:10~0:20 in the trailer when we see Mario's house and Luigi deliver the letter is a new arrangement of the original Paper Mario's file select theme (which itself is an arrangement of SMW's athletic theme), which apparently didn't appear anywhere in the original TTYD.

Could be another hint at new content in addition to the purple toad

Part of me is hoping for a secret Paper Mario 64 remake.

Another Code includes a remake of the Wii sequel "as a bonus", so it's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Jersh]

Also, Mario's house now displays the map of Paper Mario 64 behind the group picture with all of the partners, which wasn't in the original version. Additionally, the Remake includes Mario and Luigi's room behind the house which was present in 64 but not in TTYD:

Part of me is hoping for a secret Paper Mario 64 remake.

Another Code includes a remake of the Wii sequel "as a bonus", so it's not outside the realm of possibility.

I think the house is just widescreen forcing their hand.

Paper Mario 64 being included is something they'd say at announcement. It's curious that both the house and OG file select music are present, but the game being legitimately twice the effort we thought is not realistic. (It would also have a more fitting name than Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.)

 

[ziggyrivers]

Guys, serious question: will the game seamlessly traverse through areas, or will we have black screens?

 

[brainchild]

The reflections are one of those fridge door moments where you're like "that looks great!" then you start to wonder why paper is reflective and if Mario's floor is actually polished hardwood. But the logs by the furnace are cardboard. Then I went into an existential crisis of wondering if wood existed in this world and where did all the paper come from? How many forests died to make this world?

But the reflections do look good and I'm happy they're there

I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone that Fresnel reflections exist for most materials in real life:

And that includes paper/cardboard, especially if there's a clear coating. In a physically-based renderer, if you were to change the camera angle to overhead/top down, and the reflections were updated in real-time, the reflections on the ground would disappear.

That's light physics for you.

 

[Jersh]

I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone that Fresnel reflections exist for most materials in real life:

And that includes paper/cardboard, especially if there's a clear coating. In a physically-based renderer, if you were to change the camera angle to overhead/top down, and the reflections were updated in real-time, the reflections on the ground would disappear.

That's light physics for you.

I personally find Fresnel reflections in games almost always look too strong, to the point of being distracting depending on the art direction. But this game isn't looking like a big offender to me.

 

[switchum]

I've said it before and I'll say it again

The new TTYD artstyle is the perfect marriage between the original game's artstyle and the "modern trilogy" artstyle. I genuinely can't think of any way that this remake could look better. It's not overly reliant on the handcrafted feel, but it's still present in a much more subtle way.

I'm blown away by the look of the remake. It looks and sounds perfect in every way.

...now just let me play Luigi's adventure as a side expansion and you've got yourself the Game of the Century.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

I liked Origami King's art direction back when I played the game for the first time but I always felt like it was missing something. It always looked good, but now seeing how TTYD looks, the inclusion of reflective material, better shadows, and detailed textures really does so much to elevate the visuals. Origami King looks so flat and plain (which you can definitely argue is intentional considering the paper theme) but I vastly prefer the new look of TTYD. I feel so blessed they went above and beyond for this remake

This is going to sound really reductive, but I've always felt that Origami King's actual art direction was pretty subpar when you strip away the Paper aesthetic. Of course, that sounds stupid because the point of a game called Paper Mario: The Origami King is to render stuff as paper and origami, but I think it actually makes sense when you look at the game taking a step back. Most areas in The Origami King are literally just generic green hill, generic island, the most unique it gets is the Japanese inspired area, which even that is mostly wheat falls or tall grass. If you rendered these areas in a normal Mario game, they'd look incredibly bland, and it's the Paper aesthetic that really saves it. People already say this about character designs but they don't say it about areas, which I don't really get. This problem gets especially bad in "special" areas in the game, like when you walk up onto a wrecked ship and ... it's just a ship, with some holes in it and some oil. That's it. Nothing special.

The older Paper Mario games largely don't have this problem (though, I guess you could say 64 would to an extent thanks to its more basic art style compared to TTYD or Super). The irony of The Origami King's aesthetic being based around arts and crafts is that it's one of the few Nintendo games where the prowess of the art direction is VERY HEAVILY relying on the graphical quality as a crutch.

 

[switchum]

I see a lot of people requesting Luigi's adventure as DLC, but I personally think that if it were to be included, it's more likely to be a Bowser's Fury-style addition to the game. Or like SS + Bowser's Minions, or BIS + Bowser Jr.'s Journey (although I haven't heard the best things about those, so I hope this would be a lot better.)

In other words, I don't think it would cost anything extra or require an extra download, just be an additional side mode that's meant it set it apart over the original.

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

Also, Mario's house now displays the map of Paper Mario 64 behind the group picture with all of the partners, which wasn't in the original version. Additionally, the Remake includes Mario and Luigi's room behind the house which was present in 64 but not in TTYD:

Oh hey, I'm just realizing that the TTYD remake house also has the little chimney portion that's present in PM64 but not the original TTYD. This new house design does a great job of merging the original details with the slight redesigns that TTYD GC brought in (the changed door, changed sign, the new lamp above the door). Shows the level of care that is going into this remake - the audience clamoring for this is exactly the kind of group who would notice these details!

 

[EtherPenguin]

I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone that Fresnel reflections exist for most materials in real life:

And that includes paper/cardboard, especially if there's a clear coating. In a physically-based renderer, if you were to change the camera angle to overhead/top down, and the reflections were updated in real-time, the reflections on the ground would disappear.

That's light physics for you.

Mario's reflection on the floor isn't fresnel through. You can see when he enters the room toward the bottom of the screen and then moves up by the furnace to greet Luigi, the reflection maintains the same strength regardless of how close he is to the camera. The main thing that stood out to me was he doesn't have a reflection like that on any of the other floors and ground types in the game which would imply the floor in his house is a unique material in-universe. I just thought that was funny.

Part of me is hoping for a secret Paper Mario 64 remake.

Another Code includes a remake of the Wii sequel "as a bonus", so it's not outside the realm of possibility.

That would be amazing but also an unbelievable amount of work and I'm not sure they keep it secret like this. Bonus campaigns weren't revealed initially like Magalor's thing or only teased like Future Connected, but when it's two whole games in one like Another Code, they're usually upfront about that

 

[Maronic03]

While it's much better than the Wii U and 3DS game, TOK is still floating in that semi RPG space. Once the novelty wore off in the battle system it was just something that was stopping you for coins as rewards.

Even outside of the combat they play nothing alike. The areas in TOK are wide, interconnected and filled with unique collectibles to find. Most of the ones from SS and CS are essentially linear levels with consumables and money.

Just the way you move around in chapter 3 and 4 of TOK is unlike anything the series has ever been.

 

[Phendrift]

I hate this take so much.

It's just so fundamentally false.

Origami King is actually a good game don’t get me wrong, but it absolutely has Sticker Star DNA in it. Pretending it doesn’t is what I’d call “fundamentally false”

In fact I’d attribute any flaw the game has to said Sticker Star DNA. It’d be even better if it freed itself from it!

 

[soundchaser]

I see a lot of people requesting Luigi's adventure as DLC, but I personally think that if it were to be included, it's more likely to be a Bowser's Fury-style addition to the game. Or like SS + Bowser's Minions, or BIS + Bowser Jr.'s Journey (although I haven't heard the best things about those, so I hope this would be a lot better.)

In other words, I don't think it would cost anything extra or require an extra download, just be an additional side mode that's meant it set it apart over the original.

I don't totally understand the clamor for Luigi DLC, because it feels to me like the whole point of the Luigi story would be undermined by actually playing it. The difference between Luigi's telling, the books' narrative, and the partners' experiences is important. I've always thought it was meant to mirror the main quest's focus on unreliability and perspective in storytelling.

 

[Phendrift]

I don't totally understand the clamor for Luigi DLC, because it feels to me like the whole point of the Luigi story would be undermined by actually playing it. The difference between Luigi's telling, the books' narrative, and the partners' experiences is important. I've always thought it was meant to mirror the main quest's focus on unreliability and perspective in storytelling.

Yeah, it’d kinda kill the joke a bit if they made it playable.

 

[Hailinel]

Origami King is actually a good game don’t get me wrong, but it absolutely has Sticker Star DNA in it. Pretending it doesn’t is what I’d call “fundamentally false”

In fact I’d attribute any flaw the game has to said Sticker Star DNA. It’d be even better if it freed itself from it!

People really need to let go of the idea that there's a "Sticker Star trilogy" and takes like these don't really say anything of substance.

"There's Sticker Star DNA!"

OK. How? What? Where? And why does it matter, other than citing a game that's near universally reviled to shit on a game that's better than it?

 

[entut1]

I feel the reason they can manage with all those reflections/shadows is that the areas in TTYD are way smaller than in Origami King (the biggest is probably something like the TTYD's floor, compared to freaking Toad Town in Origami King which is something like 10-12 times bigger)

 

[Maronic03]

Pretending it doesn’t is what I’d call “fundamentally false”

I'm just going to follow my own advice from the comment I made on friday and put every Paper Mario thread on my ignore list.

I don't think I ever used this feature but this is clearly the time to do so.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

Origami King is actually a good game don’t get me wrong, but it absolutely has Sticker Star DNA in it. Pretending it doesn’t is what I’d call “fundamentally false”

In fact I’d attribute any flaw the game has to said Sticker Star DNA. It’d be even better if it freed itself from it!

It does not. It is "fundamentally false".

 

[Lucifer]

Even outside of the combat they play nothing alike. The areas in TOK are wide, interconnected and filled with unique collectibles to find. Most of the ones from SS and CS are essentially linear levels with consumables and money.

Just the way you move around in chapter 3 and 4 of TOK is unlike anything the series has ever been.

It is the most different one out of the three, just like how SPM is the most different one out of the first three, but still very much part of that vibe.

 

[Phendrift]

People really need to let go of the idea that there's a "Sticker Star trilogy" and takes like these don't really say anything of substance.

"There's Sticker Star DNA!"

OK. How? What? Where? And why does it matter, other than citing a game that's near universally reviled to shit on a game that's better than it?

I didn’t think I’d need to spell out something that I feel is pretty obvious, but sure! Here goes:

- Like Sticker Star, Origami King attempts something like turn based RPG battles but with no rewards for them, no growth system from engaging with them or anything. It’s a fundamental design flaw that started with SS. I actually found the boss fights to be pretty great puzzles though, which is why I’d totally love if the series continued with a more action adventure slant.

- Like Sticker Star, Origami King is still hampered by the same no original character design mantra outside of its primary companion (and villain here, at least!), resulting in less uniquely designed NPCs. Which is a shame because the game has many great NPCs!

- Like Sticker Star, Origami King focuses so much on the world literally being made of paper. This isn’t a flaw, but I don’t think I’m alone in thinking it’s a bit of a tired schtick. The Things becoming bosses was cool and funny, but for me, it’s the kind of thing that would get old after only one game.

I feel like I’m in some bizarro universe where pointing out design similarities and mantras that started with Sticker Star and continued to Color Splash and Origami King is somehow met with pushback. I don’t get why we’re playing dumb about it, the games have trends that are shared amongst eachother!

Origami King’s differences to Sticker Star are what makes it great (return of more unique locales like Snif City and Shogun studios, way better level design, completely ditching stickers/cards/Thing items), it’s similarities are what holds it back, in my opinion.

As for “why it matters,” I mean, we’re on a games discussion forum. When it’s time to discuss the next Zelda, we’ll discuss and compare all the games to eachother just like I’m doing here. People will say what trends the open air games introduced that they like and dislike. People will say what they want the next game to pull from the “classic” games.

I get Paper Mario discussion has become heated, but for me, it’s impossible to not bring up Sticker Star when discussing Origami King’s game design because the game wasn’t released in a vacuum, in my opinion, the root of most of its flaws can be traced back to Sticker Star. Nonetheless, I do think it was a massive step in the right direction.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

You know what? Aside from the fact that I don't consider it as good as either the original PM or SPM (nor the upcoming Super Mario RPG for that matter), this thread convinces me more and more that is better to get TTYD remaster second hand.

 

[Hailinel]

I didn’t think I’d need to spell out something that I feel is pretty obvious, but sure! Here goes:

- Like Sticker Star, Origami King attempts something like turn based RPG battles but with no rewards for them, no growth system from engaging with them or anything. It’s a fundamental design flaw that started with SS. I actually found the boss fights to be pretty great puzzles though, which is why I’d totally love if the series continued with a more action adventure slant.

- Like Sticker Star, Origami King is still hampered by the same no original character design mantra outside of its primary companion (and villain here, at least!), resulting in less uniquely designed NPCs. Which is a shame because the game has many great NPCs!

- Like Sticker Star, Origami King focuses so much on the world literally being made of paper. This isn’t a flaw, but I don’t think I’m alone in thinking it’s a bit of a tired schtick. The Things becoming bosses was cool and funny, but for me, it’s the kind of thing that would get old after only one game.

I feel like I’m in some bizarro universe where pointing out design similarities and mantras that started with Sticker Star and continued to Color Splash and Origami King is somehow met with pushback. I don’t get why we’re playing dumb about it, the games have trends that are shared amongst eachother!

Origami King’s differences to Sticker Star are what makes it great, it’s similarities are what holds it back, in my opinion.

As for “why it matters,” I mean, we’re on a games discussion forum. When it’s time to discuss the next Zelda, we’ll discuss and compare all the games to eachother just like I’m doing here. People will say what trends the open air games introduced that they like and dislike. People will say what they want the next game to pull from the “classic” games.

I get Paper Mario discussion has become heated, but for me, it’s impossible to not bring up Sticker Star when discussing Origami King’s game design because, in my opinion, the root of most of its flaws can be traced back to that game. Nonetheless, I do think it was a massive step in the right direction.

So your issues are:

1. It has a turn-based combat system with no EXP (never mind that the combat mechanics are different).
2. It emphasizes the paper aesthetic.
3. The NPCs aren't "Goomba with a hat"-level "unique"?

And you're blaming this on Sticker Star, and not the devs' general desire to just do different things, play around with the paper aesthetic, and put more apparent design focus into the OCs and not 31 flavors of Toad?

 

[Nmanic]

Sometimes I think I should really give Sticker Star and Color Splash an honest try. Cause otherwise, Paper Mario is one of my favorite series. Just could never finish those two on account of specifically not jiving with the gameplay

Anyway, ttyd is one of the most important games I ever played. I think this is a wonderful new release to get. That said, I replayed it only two years ago and I feel the original aged extremely gracefully. So on that end, I'm more excited about this being more widely accessible than I am excited to play it again. I do hope they give it a nice new localization and maybe fix some of the weird stuff (does tec really need to watch peach bathe?) I wonder how they'll handle Vivi too. She deserves to be a trans icon, but I'm not sure how Ninty will handle that aspect or if they'll just go with the original localization's route for it

 

[LoneRanger]

I think this game can be a mid year title like around june or july or something like that. Even there is a chance is a may title.

 

[MusicProposition]

People really need to let go of the idea that there's a "Sticker Star trilogy" and takes like these don't really say anything of substance.

"There's Sticker Star DNA!"

OK. How? What? Where? And why does it matter, other than citing a game that's near universally reviled to shit on a game that's better than it?

I actually liked Sticker Star but CS and TOK are very similar, I'm glad they're returning to form now

 

[Tinarg]

I think Origami King is cut from the same cloth as Sticker Star and Color Splash, but it has enough improvements and innovations to stay fun. To me it isn't calling Origami King bad as much as it is saying the new formula has potential, or just a passive observation on the trajectory of the IP.

You know what? Aside from the fact that I don't consider it as good as either the original PM or SPM (nor the upcoming Super Mario RPG for that matter), this thread convinces me more and more that is better to get TTYD remaster second hand.

yeah that'll show 'em!!

 

[SiG]

I actually liked Sticker Star but CS and TOK are very similar, I'm glad they're returning to form now

Unrelated, but will you be updating your profile icon to match the new version?

 

[Comic Obsessed]

Comparing SS to TOK is just stupid. Is like saying "This adventure/turn-based hybrid has similarities to this other adventure/turn-based hybrid from a different series".

yeah that'll show 'em!!

Eh, is more like I don't consider the entry worth it enough but if you feel offended go ahead.

 

[Dark Cloud]

You know what? Aside from the fact that I don't consider it as good as either the original PM or SPM (nor the upcoming Super Mario RPG for that matter), this thread convinces me more and more that is better to get TTYD remaster second hand.

What a sad post. You act like Nintendo is doing something to you. Letting randoms on the internet get into your head.

 

[Metroid]

Comparing SS to TOK is just stupid. Is like saying "This adventure/turn-based hybrid has similarities to this other adventure/turn-based hybrid from a different series".

Is it stupid to say a sequel builds off of what comes before? Do you truly believe they started 100% fresh and ignored the previous games when making Origami King?

 

[Tinarg]

Origami King is still fundamentally a puzzle action game with an emphasis on collecting consumable items, which is far closer to Sticker Star's gameplay style than PM64's. That doesn't mean Origami King is bad, though.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

What a sad post. You act like Nintendo is doing something to you. Letting randoms on the internet get into your head.

Nah, Nintendo is not doing anything to me. Is just not the best game in the series and for reason has created an extremely obnoxious side of the fanbase.

Is it stupid to say a sequel builds off of what comes before? Do you truly believe they started 100% fresh and ignored the previous games when making Origami King?

But "it doesn't build from it" really. Otherwise it would have been a similar turn-based stuff like CS instead of the puzzle/turn-based hybrid of TOK with a heavy emphasis on adventure.

 

[Phendrift]

So your issues are:

1. It has a turn-based combat system with no EXP (never mind that the combat mechanics are different).
2. It emphasizes the paper aesthetic.
3. The NPCs aren't "Goomba with a hat"-level "unique"?

And you're blaming this on Sticker Star, and not the devs' general desire to just do different things, play around with the paper aesthetic, and put more apparent design focus into the OCs and not 31 flavors of Toad?

I mean, “blaming” a game is dumb, but considering Sticker Star started all of those trends and they have since been iterated upon to varying degrees of success, yes I’m going to bring it up when discussing Origami King because I find it fun to discuss design trends across multiple games.

If you don’t view those things as flaws, more power to you!

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to prove at this point though, if I’m being honest. Should the games not be compared?

 

[Phendrift]

I think Origami King is cut from the same cloth as Sticker Star and Color Splash, but it has enough improvements and innovations to stay fun. To me it isn't calling Origami King bad as much as it is saying the new formula has potential, or just a passive observation on the trajectory of the IP.

Yeah pretty much this, I did not think comparing two games with similarities that are even in the same series would draw this much ire.

 

[Metroid]

But "it doesn't build from it" really. Otherwise it would have been a similar turn-based stuff like CS instead of the puzzle/turn-based hybrid of TOK with a heavy emphasis on adventure.

Building off of something/sharing the same DNA doesn't mean it's just a slightly newer version of the thing. It just means they learned from their previous mistakes and successes and moved to make something else. Otherwise, like I said, they just completely ignored the previous games to make Origami King. I haven't looked up very many interviews with the developers, but such a thing seems unlikely to me.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

Building off of something/sharing the same DNA doesn't mean it's just a slightly newer version of the thing. It just means they learned from their previous mistakes and successes and moved to make something else. Otherwise, like I said, they just completely ignored the previous games to make Origami King. I haven't looked up very many interviews with the developers, but such a thing seems unlikely to me.

Comparing TOK to SS is like comparing SPM to PM64. Yes, there are "similarities" but they are so few because they're basically different genres.

 

[Mango]

I think what held ToK back most for me was its tone. TTYD is about an ancient civilization that was wiped out, PM1 is about a magical wand IIRC, and SPM is about soul mates and crossing dimensions again IIRC it's been a long long time since I played SPM. Anyways ToK is about origami, and a little origami guy being upset that someone drew on him, where you venture around collecting confetti, and fighting office supplies. Like none of these games take themselves 100% seriously, but it's very hard to be immersed in a world as goofy as ToKs world, even more so when it constantly shoves the fact that everything is made out of paper in your face.

It's also an extremely like confusing world, some stuff is made out of paper, some is cardboard, some is paper mache, some is paper water and fire, and then real water and fire, and then paper dirt and then real dirt, and then paper ice and real ice, like it's so incohesive it was almost impossible for me to care about the world, which again is only hampered further by it's insistence on relying on jokes and gags instead of anything serious or intriguing. Add all of that to the fact that it can't have real characters and that I hate it's battle system, and yeah I just ended up really not liking the game. I can't say how similar it is or isn't to SS and CS tho as I never played those two.

 

[totofogo]

So I do this thing where I pause games right before beating them when I'm enjoying them, something I taught myself back on OOT when I didn't want it to end

I don't do that as often these days with how big games have gotten, but unfortunately it reared its head with TOK since I mostly 'completed' that game along the way.

Definitely not a game that overstayed its welcome for me, but I'm glad to get the chance to return to it and finally beat it with this announcement! Had a delightful session with it over the weekend, looking forward to closing the loop soon and going for the secret ending.

 

[Metroid]

Comparing TOK to SS is like comparing SPM to PM64. Yes, there are "similarities" but they are so few because they're basically different genres.

I would still say SPM has the dna of the prior two games in the series though. Just because they're different genres doesn't mean they didn't use their experiences from the prior two to develop SPM's world and characters and story for instance

 

[Comic Obsessed]

I would still say SPM has the dna of the prior two games in the series though. Just because they're different genres doesn't mean they didn't use their experiences from the prior two to develop SPM's world and characters and story for instance

Mostly talking about gameplay here though. "Adventure/puzzle game" is not the same as "turn-based something".

 

[Jersh]

And you're blaming this on Sticker Star, and not the devs' general desire to just do different things, play around with the paper aesthetic, and put more apparent design focus into the OCs and not 31 flavors of Toad?

I honestly don't even know what you mean by this. Where did Phendrift blame Sticker Star for anything? Pointing out that there's a certain through line from Sticker Star to The Origami King doesn't make a game released 10 years ago responsible for anything The Origami King is.

Sticker Star is the name people put to these changes because it was the first game to go in this direction, simple as. I have no idea why half this thread thinks it's a good idea to jump on someone who likes TOK because they've articulated ways they hope the next game diverges from it (some of which are an even further departure from TTYD) that happen to be ways they also want it to diverge from Sticker Star.

Also - surely you can see how Phendrift's points are largely a matter of taste, yeah? Like, even this point that you've rather unfavorably rephrased:

put more apparent design focus into the OCs and not 31 flavors of Toad?

...the Toads are everywhere, across both games, so of course some people are gonna like them being a bit more varied. This is a legitimate tradeoff, not a clear cut positive change you seem to be attempting to spin it as, especially given how few OCs there actually are.

I'll also note here that I'm a bit surprised to see this argument from you specifically, someone I've oft seen note that different people like different Paper Mario games for different reasons. I've no idea why you seem to be trying to dismiss Phendrift's opinions outright.

Eh, is more like I don't consider the entry worth it enough but if you feel offended go ahead.

I don't really have skin in the game here, but you literally said aside from the game's quality, the discourse in this thread is part of what's pushing you towards this. I don't really understand how that should be interpreted other than as an attempt to show people up.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

I don't really have skin in the game here, but you literally said aside from the game's quality, the discourse in this thread is part of what's pushing you towards this. I don't really understand how that should be interpreted other than an attempt to show people up.

Well yeah, aside from the game's quality which is ultimately the most important part.

 

[Hailinel]

I mean, “blaming” a game is dumb, but considering Sticker Star started all of those trends and they have since been iterated upon to varying degrees of success, yes I’m going to bring it up when discussing Origami King because I find it fun to discuss design trends across multiple games.

If you don’t view those things as flaws, more power to you!

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to prove at this point though, if I’m being honest. Should the games not be compared?

My issue is that Sticker Star has been such a lightning rod point of overzealous derision and hatred for so long that I don't strictly trust comparisons made between it and other games without really thoughtful justification.

 

[Metroid]

Mostly talking about gameplay here though. "Adventure/puzzle game" is not the same as "turn-based something".

I obviously can't say for certain, but I'm pretty @Phendrift aka the person you were responding to when you said the games sharing dna was fundamentally false, was referring to the entire package not just the gameplay.

Also I still disagree.