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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: launch trailer, see threadmarks)

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Everyone has been asking for this for years specifically in the face of modern Paper Mario, and now I'm already seeing complaints that it's too faithful / the game needs fat trimmed / etc. (when we don't even know enough to say what changes are made lol).

ohhhh internet.
 
I only ever played a small bit of the original GameCube version but this is looking very delightful so of course it's a day one purchase for me. Looks fantastic! :)
 
totofogo said:
Everyone has been asking for this for years specifically in the face of modern Paper Mario, and now I'm already seeing complaints that it's too faithful / the game needs fat trimmed / etc. (when we don't even know enough to say what changes are made lol).

ohhhh internet.
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That is a problem with most highly acclaimed franchises. People were dying for a FF7 remake for years and a lot of people still had/are still complaints/complaining on the direction they took/are taking.
 
Dark Cloud said:
I’m gonna need a 4K tv when we find out this will come to Switch 2 also
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My thoughts exactly but for Switch 2 in general. Its been a decade since I got a new one and leave it to Nintendo to get me to buy another tv.

It will look so crisp and gorgeous! I’m already saving up for everything and if they throw a collectors edition and amiibo dlowneidhsnwosnsjfisnskznsn I’ll freak out, I never buy collectors edition but this will be the first exception.
 
I don’t see why this can outsell TOK? Origami King was announced on twitter (likely due to the pandemic) and released just two months later. This game got the “one more thing” treatment in a Direct and is much farther out, so more opportunities to drum up anticipation
 
Leviraps said:
I don’t see why this can outsell TOK? Origami King was announced on twitter (likely due to the pandemic) and released just two months later. This game got the “one more thing” treatment in a Direct and is much farther out, so more opportunities to drum up anticipation
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Ya got me, I read it as TOTK.
Fair point I thought, if you make a pie chart of the amount of people that didn't have a GC vs how many people do have switches you'd see it will logically outsell The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom
 
Comic Obsessed said:
What? The artstyle is heavily based on TTYD and the character design is cute.

But sure, keep saying that "it doesn't say anything". I assume people will keep saying that once TTYD doesn't sell as much as TOK.
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That doesn't mean it's good at incorporating it. Paper Mario is a much better audio and visual experience, has much more lovable and recognisable characters and character design.

I don't care if TTYD doesn't sell as much as TOK, I'm just stating my opinion of why I find Bug Fables so unappealing in everything but its battles. Doesn't shock me it didn't take off.
 
Comic Obsessed said:
Man, if TTYD doesn't sell as much as people think we will have even more excuses and yet another 20 years of whining.



That's not true. Bug Fables in particular was heavily pushed by basically every TTYD fanboy in Youtube (most famously Arlo) with a whole "This is what we want Nintendo!" mentality while at the same time trashing on The Origami King that was releasing in that same year so when Bug Fables basically bombed and TOK sold rather decently, the complaining just went ridiculous despite that one would think it would stop.
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Bug Fables bombed? I thought it sold well for an indie game.
 
Always wanted to play this game so I’m pretty hype for his. The original Paper Mario for N64 is one of my faves.

I wish this thread was more about people being hype rather than fandom wars.
 
oh god, gamexplain made a video about my stupid face button color conspiracy

edit: and people in the hardware thread seem way more into the idea when gamexplain brings it up than when I did yesterday, oh well lol
 
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It got a covid bump but Origami King was still the fastest selling game in the series by a wide margin, and this is the Paper Mario people have been talking up for decades, word of mouth is a powerful mover these days. There's also currently a whole crop in a micro-genre of indie games directly influenced by TTYD, imitators tend to create more synergy than competition once the originator makes a comeback, like with Metroid. I wouldn't fret too much over this one bombing, save for if Nintendo themselves tank it with something else big at the time of its release.
 
BassForever said:
Citation needed on that Bug Fables bombed comment.
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What do you expect the devs saying: "Yeah, so, our game bombed dudes"?

I can't find the exact month when it launched but it didn't even appear among the best selling Indie list on the eShop in the year of frikking COVID so, not good:

www.resetera.com

Indie World (Nintendo) Best Selling Indie Games of 2020

Nintendo put out a video on the best selling indie games in no order Hades Streets of Rage 4 Spiritfarer Moving Out Ori and the Will of the Wisps Carrion What the Golf? Shante and the Seven Sirens Super Mega Baseball 3 Superliminal Jackbox 7 Sakuna of Rice and Ruin Kentucky Route Zero...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

  • Hades
  • Streets of Rage 4
  • Spiritfarer
  • Moving Out
  • Ori and the Will of the Wisps
  • Carrion
  • What the Golf?
  • Shante and the Seven Sirens
  • Super Mega Baseball 3
  • Superliminal
  • Jackbox 7
  • Sakuna of Rice and Ruin
  • Kentucky Route Zero
  • Crosscode
  • Bloodstained Curse of the Moon 2
  • Neon Abyss
I mean, Bug Fables was outsold by games that didn't even receive half the push it got like Carrion, Crosscode, Spiritfarer and Neon Abyss.
 
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If imagine if the dev is still in buisness it didn't outright bomb, especially an indie dev. Now how well it sold is still up in the air
 
Rewatching the trailer, and man Nintendo has been so good at trailers this gen.

Just realizing the trailer starts with Mario’s field abilities, then introduces the partners before showing their abilities, then segues into battles.

It’s so clean, they’ve been so good at showing off gameplay naturally in their trailers
 
Comic Obsessed said:
What do you expect the devs saying: "Yeah, so, our game bombed dudes"?

I can't find the exact month when it launched but it didn't even appear among the best selling Indie list on the eShop in the year of frikking COVID so, not good:

www.resetera.com

Indie World (Nintendo) Best Selling Indie Games of 2020

Nintendo put out a video on the best selling indie games in no order Hades Streets of Rage 4 Spiritfarer Moving Out Ori and the Will of the Wisps Carrion What the Golf? Shante and the Seven Sirens Super Mega Baseball 3 Superliminal Jackbox 7 Sakuna of Rice and Ruin Kentucky Route Zero...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

  • Hades
  • Streets of Rage 4
  • Spiritfarer
  • Moving Out
  • Ori and the Will of the Wisps
  • Carrion
  • What the Golf?
  • Shante and the Seven Sirens
  • Super Mega Baseball 3
  • Superliminal
  • Jackbox 7
  • Sakuna of Rice and Ruin
  • Kentucky Route Zero
  • Crosscode
  • Bloodstained Curse of the Moon 2
  • Neon Abyss
I mean, Bug Fables was outsold by games that didn't even receive half the push it got like Carrion, Crosscode, Spiritfarer and Neon Abyss.
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it's hard to find exact sales numbers since they don't really exist unless the dev themselves release them but considering a quick google search of those 4 games you think Bug Fables should have sold better than shows that Spiritfarer sold over a million copies and Carrion sold 200k copies in it's first week what exactly do you even consider not bombing? literally outselling Paper Mario games?
 
rickyson33 said:
it's hard to find exact sales numbers since they don't really exist unless the dev themselves release them but considering a quick google search shows that Spiritfarer sold over a million copies and Carrion sold 200k copies in it's first week what exactly do you even consider not bombing? literally outselling Paper Mario games?
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"Not bombing" meaning games that are heavily promoted in Youtube and such as "the true PM game we want" can at least appear among the best selling titles in a year where digital purchases were abundant and in a console where such fanbase supposedly is.

(I mean, I seriously can't remember many campaigns for either Carrion or Spiritfarer so good for them for reaching such numbers but that says more about Bug Fables than anything).
 
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EtherPenguin said:
oh god, gamexplain made a video about my stupid face button color conspiracy

edit: and people in the hardware thread seem way more into the idea when gamexplain brings it up than when I did yesterday, oh well lol
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people do tend to get carried away about little things
 
rickyson33 said:
it's hard to find exact sales numbers since they don't really exist unless the dev themselves release them but considering a quick google search of those 4 games you think Bug Fables should have sold better than shows that Spiritfarer sold over a million copies and Carrion sold 200k copies in it's first week what exactly do you even consider not bombing? literally outselling Paper Mario games?
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Whatever lets them continue their axe grind against fans of older Paper Mario titles.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
That's just not true, but that's part of the self generated fervour the most vocal of TTYD fans specifically have worked themselves up in to. There's plenty of indie games that have moved in to the space, but because the vocal part of the base have made it so they want TTYD and nothing even slightly deviating from it, they've just largely ignored everything when it comes to actually playing games like TTYD.

Bug Fables is straight up a better game than PM64 and I would go so far as to argue it's better than TTYD too. But my efforts to getting people to actually play it when it was new went nowhere because it became obvious quickly that nearly nobody but me cared. There's a whole list of good turn based with action command RPGs that don't hide where their inspiration came from either, but again, it's TTYD or bust for the most vocal of complainers.
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In context, I was specifically referring to the Paper Mario franchise - we haven't had a Paper Mario game anything like this for nearly 20 years. I am well aware that there have been games that have taken heavy inspiration from those early games, including Bug Fables - which I played and really enjoyed and agree that it improved on certain aspects; I'll definitely play a sequel. I recently played and loved Sea of Stars which had action command battle similarities to the Mario RPGs, and I keep an eye on the 'Paperverse' Directs and have games like Born of Bread (which looks fantastic) on my wishlist.

Having said that, so far I still prefer PM64 and TTYD overall, they just have an extra layer of polish that Nintendo often gives, and a particular kind of charm - that doesn't mean I'm a stubborn die-hard who ignores anything that isn't exactly TTYD (I actually prefer 64 personally). And that doesn't mean that I'm self-generating a fervour that I'm working myself up in to. I'm just sick of these constant assumptions and sweeping generalisations about 'TTYD fans'.
 
I'm still absolutely shocked this got a remake and so soon after Super Mario RPG got announced and was given the spotlight. I would have really expected a much more staggered release between those two as the GOAT Mario RPGs getting remakes, but here we are. Genuinely don't know what to make of that after years of Nintendo just kind of saying "nah" to Mario RPGs like these lol.
 
EtherPenguin said:
oh god, gamexplain made a video about my stupid face button color conspiracy

edit: and people in the hardware thread seem way more into the idea when gamexplain brings it up than when I did yesterday, oh well lol
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I was with you from the get go! Absolutely not certain this will be anything, but it's a nice observation and certainly curious
 
EricTheGamerman said:
I'm still absolutely shocked this got a remake and so soon after Super Mario RPG got announced and was given the spotlight. I would have really expected a much more staggered release between those two as the GOAT Mario RPGs getting remakes, but here we are. Genuinely don't know what to make of that after years of Nintendo just kind of saying "nah" to Mario RPGs like these lol.
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The death of Alpha Dream was late 2019/early 2020. It would make sense that Nintendo would green light these remakes when they saw the writing on the wall for AD (probably earlier in 2019 then the official bankruptcy). Even if we are overly critical and cynical about that comment that Mario & Luigi was their rpg series now, with M&L dev AD dead, Nintendo would have to figure out some kind of replacement. Green lighting remakes of Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario TTYD makes a ton of sense as both crowd pleasing content for the later part of the Switch's life, and as feelers for possible directions to go with Mario RPGs.
 
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I'm finally starting to get hyped to play this. This being the closer soured the announcement initially for me. I've never played this so I'm pretty excited for it.
 
We getting this text. But in HD


guess-again-nerd.gif
 
TTYD remake. Better lighting. Remade textures (cool more realistic paper materials). Better character models. New UI. Floor reflections to give it a pop-up book feel.

Direct closer spot. Lengthy marketing window (vague 2024 date, probably at least 6 months out). Premium game price (60 dollars).

Let that sink in. Nintendo is giving this game every chance to succeed and all the spotlight it can get.
 
Might have already been touched on, but I hope there is an option to alternate to the original soundtrack like in SMRPG. I didn't totally love the remixes we heard in the trailer but I'm open to warming up to them.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
I'm finally starting to get hyped to play this. This being the closer soured the announcement initially for me. I've never played this so I'm pretty excited for it.
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Yeah I get that. In basically any other direct there's no way it would've got the closing 'one more thing' spot. But for me that just made it even more special, like in my mind these games were up with Zelda and 3D Mario as top tier stuff. And comparing this reveal to the kinda non-chalant, casual reveal of Colour Splash, it's night and day.
 
BassForever said:
The death of Alpha Dream was late 2019/early 2020. It would make sense that Nintendo would green light these remakes when they saw the writing on the wall for AD (probably earlier in 2019 then the official bankruptcy). Even if we are overly critical and cynical about that comment that Mario & Luigi was their rpg series now, with M&L dev AD dead, Nintendo would have to figure out some kind of replacement. Green lighting remakes of Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario TTYD makes a ton of sense as both crowd pleasing content for the later part of the Switch's life, and as feelers for possible directions to go with Mario RPGs.
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Probably beating a dead horse here but it's still bizarre to me both that Nintendo didn't bail out Alpha Dream and they opted to release those M&L remakes on the 3DS and not the Switch. The Superstar Saga one in particular I could've seen doing really well in the Switch's early years but it felt redundant on the 3DS, especially when the following Bowser's Inside Story remake was on a system that could already easily play the original!
 
The reflections are one of those fridge door moments where you're like "that looks great!" then you start to wonder why paper is reflective and if Mario's floor is actually polished hardwood. But the logs by the furnace are cardboard. Then I went into an existential crisis of wondering if wood existed in this world and where did all the paper come from? How many forests died to make this world?

But the reflections do look good and I'm happy they're there
 
AstroOhHey said:
Probably beating a dead horse here but it's still bizarre to me both that Nintendo didn't bail out Alpha Dream and they opted to release those M&L remakes on the 3DS and not the Switch. The Superstar Saga one in particular I could've seen doing really well in the Switch's early years but it felt redundant on the 3DS, especially when the following Bowser's Inside Story remake was on a system that could already easily play the original!
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They didn’t bail out Alpha Dream because they would be too expensive; meaning they were in some decent debt & hadn’t really prepared themselves for HD dev. The M&L remakes were probably keeping the lights on for AD who commissioned them for the type of experience AD could probably handle.
 
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Wishlist of potential changes/additions I'd like to see:
-Let me choose the color of my Yoshi. You could flavor it by having a moment where Grubba comes up to you and goes "hey Gonzales, I'm thinking about getting you a new costume, what color would you want it to be?" and then that's your Yoshi color

-Steeple shortcut in Chapter 4. This one's probably the most obvious, and most likely to happen because of how infamous that backtracking is

-Drop some lore about Smorg. It's always bugged me how the thing is just kinda there. This could be as simple as having some new optional flavor-text somewhere that implies where it came or what it's deal is.

-Chapter 7 backtracking needs to go. The ice area is underutilized IIRC, so they could maybe replace it with something else in that area or just ditch the hunt for General White altogether.

-New post-game challenge: Neo Glitz Pit. Instead of doing the same fights over again, the post-game Glitz Pit is full of really strong enemies and harder boss rematches (like Macho Grubba, Cortez, Smorg, Bowser and Kammy, Shadow Sirens and Doopliss, Rawk Hawk, etc.)

-Total pie in the sky request: give each partner a side-story quest that gives them more character focus so they don't completely fade from the spotlight after joining. These quests could be pre-requisites to unlocking their final upgrade
Of course I absolutely don't anticipate any of this outside of maybe the lessened backtracking, but it's nice to dream
 
EtherPenguin said:
The reflections are one of those fridge door moments where you're like "that looks great!" then you start to wonder why paper is reflective and if Mario's floor is actually polished hardwood. But the logs by the furnace are cardboard. Then I went into an existential crisis of wondering if wood existed in this world and where did all the paper come from? How many forests died to make this world?

But the reflections do look good and I'm happy they're there
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image.png


To me it looks like they're aiming for a glossy cardstock look, like a pop-up book.
I love the new art direction. I really hope they keep it for the next PM.
 
Comic Obsessed said:
Welp, we're already starting.

I remember quite clearly people were clamoring "A TTYD re-release would totally surpass TOK!" before.
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If we wanna play the sales figures game, Super Paper Mario is still the best-selling by a significant margin and Color Splash bombed. I don't think there's a huge correlation between the consensus on a game's quality and how well it sells, especially with an IP as large as Mario.
 
Anybody else starting to think this is a cross-gen game?

It was only given a vague 2024 date, Luigi's Mansion 2 is releasing next summer so the yearly summer Mario game is covered, and the 20th anniversary of the original game is in October. The Switch 2 should be out in September and I imagine we won't get many games for the current system in the few months leading up to it. And given the absolutely insane reflections and graphics we see in the trailer, it definitely would be a great console launch window game.
 
Magic-Man said:
Anybody else starting to think this is a cross-gen game? It was only given a vague 2024 date
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No, neither is the Peach game which people were saying after the Summer Direct. Nintendo had told us BotW was coming to the NX before we even knew what the NX was, heck we didn't even know the game was called BotW when it was confirmed to be coming to NX as well.
 
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Magic-Man said:
Anybody else starting to think this is a cross-gen game?

It was only given a vague 2024 date, Luigi's Mansion 2 is releasing next summer so the yearly summer Mario game is covered, and the 20th anniversary of the original game is in October. The Switch 2 should be out in September and I imagine we won't get many games for the current system in the few months leading up to it. And given the absolutely insane reflections and graphics we see in the trailer, it definitely would be a great console launch window game.
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I do not understand. The game was announced for Switch, and those are described by Nintendo as images of the Switch version. So are we commenting on graphics produced by Switch to demonstrate that there are effects created thanks to the new console's hardware? Or is the hypothesis that Nintendo wanted to joke by showing the images for Switch 2 to advertise the game announced for Switch? In this second case it would be a bad marketing move, because it would mean disappointing those who would like to buy the game for Switch by finding themselves with an inferior product... And also because I don't believe that a game like this (remake of a GC title, in cartoon style) it would be a showcase of the technical capabilities of new hardware.
 
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Magic-Man said:
Anybody else starting to think this is a cross-gen game?

It was only given a vague 2024 date, Luigi's Mansion 2 is releasing next summer so the yearly summer Mario game is covered, and the 20th anniversary of the original game is in October. The Switch 2 should be out in September and I imagine we won't get many games for the current system in the few months leading up to it. And given the absolutely insane reflections and graphics we see in the trailer, it definitely would be a great console launch window game.
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I've pointed it out elsewhere but this direct has a lot of similarties to the September 2019 Direct, including the slate of first-party games announced for the upcoming year. Multiple ports / remakes, and one major new title launching in March. The respective Directs ended on remakes of beloved first-party RPGs, with only a vague year release window.

image.png
image.png


Xeno DE ended up launching in May so I could see TTYD hitting around then or June.
 
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