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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Mer.Saloon said:
He doesn't call Goombella an airhead or girl as a way to patronize and insult her. He's generally less aggressive in that department.

"I know this is hard for you, but don't play dumb." Is gone too and I actually think that one is funny. I can live without airhead and girl, but that one is a downgrade of meanness.


I feel the best solution is then to just drop the urban tongue then and change it to something else. You could easily change it to "bro-talk" and get across that same point.

And yeah, come play is deffo more than just cute flirting of course, but again, that's still supposed to be wrong.

But Nintendo is a big company trying to mitigate any risk here.
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Agree they could've just dropped the urban slang it if the JP script hasn't changed it from the cat-calling, but Hailinel hasn't responded when I asked what they specifically say in the JP one so presumably they have no idea (and thus can't explicitly say with any certainty that this is not Treehouse being Treehouse).

As for Nintendo trying to mitigate risk, that is precisely why I don't expect them to include Vivian being trans. I mostly expected the JP script to be re-written instead to make it the EN one here. I'd be very surprised if they went this route because you just know what's gonna happen. Batten down the hatches on social media, lol.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
He doesn't call Goombella an airhead or girl as a way to patronize and insult her. He's generally less aggressive in that department.
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Now unlike the catcalling stuff, I don't mind this change at all. He's still insulting by calling her a nosy nerd, it's just not as patronizing. The reason I'm more conflicted on the removal of the catcalling is because of the change in the conversation between the characters in that scene. That's why I'm not bothered with the conversation with that hammer bro and Bowser.
 
ns156 said:
I don't like the newer style of Paper Mario after TTYD, never have done. I see elements of it added into the TTYD remake, and so I point it out. If you have nothing of value to add except trying to patronise me then I'd appreciate no further discourse from you.
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Quite literally the only newer elements implemented to the game are a dynamic soundtrack (which you can toggle) and QoL updates to alleviate backtracking (which you can ignore). The dialogue changes stem from changes within Nintendo after the Gamecube era.
 
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ns156 said:
Agree they could've just dropped the urban slang it if the JP script hasn't changed it from the cat-calling, but Hailinel hasn't responded when I asked what they specifically say in the JP one so presumably they have no idea (and thus can't explicitly say with any certainty that this is not Treehouse being Treehouse).

As for Nintendo trying to mitigate risk, that is precisely why I don't expect them to include Vivian being trans. I mostly expected the JP script to be re-written instead to make it the EN one here. I'd be very surprised if they went this route because you just know what's gonna happen. Batten down the hatches on social media, lol.
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I'm at a birthday gathering and you already got an answer.
 
Cheetah6442 said:
Now unlike the catcalling stuff, I don't mind this change at all. He's still insulting by calling her a nosy nerd, it's just not as patronizing. The reason I'm more conflicted on the removal of the catcalling is because of the change in the conversation between the characters in that scene. That's why I'm not bothered with the conversation with that hammer bro and Bowser.
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I can live without that but, "I know it's tough for you, but don't play dumb with me." Is a real shame to me. That is a particular bit of assholery that made me laugh for how brazen it is.

Lucifer said:
I've never even heard of lunkhead. Airhead is much funnier honestly.
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Unfortunately airhead is being used in this situation because Goombella is blonde. Oftentimes the word is used to patronize blonde women and play into the "Dumb Blonde" stereotype.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
I can live without that but, "I know it's tough for you, but don't play dumb with me." Is a real shame to me. That is a particular bit of assholery that made me laugh for how brazen it is.


Unfortunately airhead is being used in this situation because Goombella is blonde. Oftentimes the word is used to patronize blonde women and play into the "Dumb Blonde" stereotype.
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I don't know if any characters refer to her being blonde, but other characters are being called airheads as well. I don't think it's that serious, these type of jokes can be very funny, I'm gay and enjoy gay jokes.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
I feel the best solution is then to just drop the urban tongue then and change it to something else. You could easily change it to "bro-talk" and get across that same point.

And yeah, come play is deffo more than just cute flirting of course, but again, that's still supposed to be wrong.

But Nintendo is a big company trying to mitigate any risk here.
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I think removing the blaccent but leaving the rest of the conversation would draw attention towards what they removed, which they may wish to avoid. And we're tiptoeing around it, but "come play" in that context is going to be read as fairly rapey by some players. It's easy for us to gloss over as we've played the original and think nothing of it, but fresh eyes will react differently. Did Nintendo or IS actually intend for that conversation to feel that way? How we perceive language has changed. Again, it's notable that the Dupree conversation hasn't changed.

But yeah, as is being discussed these changes, more broadly, are why I don't feel it's likely that they're going to keep Beldam's transphobic behaviour.
 
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ze_ said:
I think removing the blaccent but leaving the rest of the conversation would draw attention towards what they removed, which they may wish to avoid. And we're tiptoeing around it, but "come play" in that context is going to be read as fairly rapey by some players. It's easy for us to gloss over as we've played the original and think nothing of it, but fresh eyes will react differently. Did Nintendo or IS actually intend for that conversation to feel that way? How we perceive language has changed. Again, it's notable that the Dupree conversation hasn't changed.

But yeah, as is being discussed these changes are why I don't feel it's likely that they're going to keep Beldam's transphobic behaviour.
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Yeah I see what you're saying I think Nintendo would rather people pretend that particular localization choice didn't exist and not comment on it. But well, I mean changing it so radically still accomplishes the same except I feel it isn't very satisfying either. The removal of the unfortunate blaccent is genuine, but I feel the whole point of the dialogue changing is more corporate.

As for the "come play" the fact these guys attack you make it pretty clear their intentions are anything but friendly flirting regardless of if they removed that line or not. But well that is still something you understand as wrong.

It's about as wrong as this scene from Beauty and the Beast.

beauty-and-the-beast-disneyscreencaps.com-1976.jpg
 
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I think the new dialogue for the goomba scene is funnier, fwiw.

Don’t really have strong feelings on if the original was offensive or not, but I think the updated version is more humorous.
 
Bro classic Paper Mario fans are truly a different breed, even when we get a literal remake of TTYD they find ways to complain LOL.

The game's visuals are great, it's only natural that a game titled Paper Mario would look more like paper. This isn't the result of IS making it "too much" like modern PM, but rather the result of a 20 year gap. TTYD HD is simply a much more technically and artistically impressive game than the original was because they've gotten much better at visuals since then. It's only natural that a remake wouldn't look the exact same as the original. That's never how it works.
 
Lucifer said:
I don't know if any characters refer to her being blonde, but other characters are being called airheads as well. I don't think it's that serious, these type of jokes can be very funny, I'm gay and enjoy gay jokes.
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Yeah I think they use airhead all over the place in the original translation. So idk if has anything to do with goombella. Bowser said lunkhead too in the initial trailer, idk who it was directed at, I forget.
 
VintoWin said:
Yeah I think they use airhead all over the place in the original translation. So idk if has anything to do with goombella. Bowser said lunkhead too in the initial trailer, idk who it was directed at, I forget.
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It was directed at his assistant, Kammy. Like I said earlier, lunkhead is actually more insulting than airhead going by the former's definition.
 
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Even as a kid the Goomba dialogue felt a little weird to me, so I can totally see why Nintendo doesn't want something like that in a Mario game. There's like multiple intersections of uncomfortable feelings to it.
 
The original goomba dialogue was creepy and not funny at all.

The new one is funny and isn't creepy, so that's good in my book.
 
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Leo said:
The original gonna dialogue was creepy and not funny at all.

The new one is funny and isn't creepy, so that's good in my book.
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The funny part isn't them the funny part is Goombella trouncing their fragile egos and then you smacking them down for being creeps.

Her sarcasm at their creepy pick up lines followed by her take down.

"Aw it's so nice you guys think I'm cute. Seriously."
"Guys like you make me feel like... TOTALLY BARFING. Now get out of the way."
 
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Mekanos said:
Even as a kid the Goomba dialogue felt a little weird to me, so I can totally see why Nintendo doesn't want something like that in a Mario game. There's like multiple intersections of uncomfortable feelings to it.
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I completely get why it was removed. But I think it showed how seedy Rogueport is very well, maybe too well. It being unfitting for a Mario game feels like it was the point of most of TTYD. Again though, I completely get why it was changed, cause that's a little too much for a Mario game compared to a lot of the other scenes in the game.

I'm definitely expecting more scenes to get censored (like Goombella calling Ms Mowz "the biggest floozy ever" in the Glitz Pit), but I won't really lose sleep over any changes made considering the Gamecube version will continue to exist if I really end up preferring it over the remake, which I doubt.
 
Leo said:
The original gonna dialogue was creepy and not funny at all.

The new one is funny and isn't creepy, so that's good in my book.
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I have a feeling a ton of the stuff you consider creepy is still in there.

So I'm not really sure what you mean.

It's not really censorship. They just changed a few things here and there.

Dupree still hits on goombella. The pokeys still have that "touch me" line

EDIT: Oh I think "gonna" was supposed to be goomba. I thought you meant all the dialogue in the game.
 
JazzyFuture said:
I completely get why it was removed. But I think it showed how seedy Rogueport is very well, maybe too well. It being unfitting for a Mario game feels like it was the point of most of TTYD. Again though, I completely get why it was changed, cause that's a little too much for a Mario game compared to a lot of the other scenes in the game.

I'm definitely expecting more scenes to get censored (like Goombella calling Ms Mowz "the biggest floozy ever" in the Glitz Pit), but I won't really lose sleep over any changes made considering the Gamecube version will continue to exist if I really end up preferring it over the remake, which I doubt.
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Outside of the catcalling stuff, I wouldn't call most of this censoring.
 
ze_ said:
But yeah, as is being discussed these changes, more broadly, are why I don't feel it's likely that they're going to keep Beldam's transphobic behaviour.
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Yeah I really doubt they'll keep Beldams dialogue from the original release when it comes to Vivian. People tend to heavily overestimate how well Vivian is handled in the original Japanese release from what I've seen. "Make the game recognize the fact that Vivian is trans" mostly would amount to making the game transphobic towards Vivian.

To be clear, the game is very much sympathetic towards Vivian, but it handles her writing well... like it's written by a cis dude in the early 2000s. That's to say, the game is very casual about a lot of things that would be a showstopper nowadays. The game UI casually says she's a "boy pretending to be a girl", Goombella's tattle does the same thing, Beldams entire arc is focused around her being a jerk to Vivian in a transphobic way. The story even ends on the pretty questionable notion that you should just... return to your transphobic family member who probably still doesn't respect you? (That last one isn't really intentional I think, but nowadays that would not send a good message, particularly in todays climate.)

Like, I really get why they took this part out of the English release originally and just made Vivian a cis girl, it's a total mess. Making it so that Beldam is just mean to her by calling her ugly conveys the clearly intended message about self-confidence when she leaves them to join Mario, whilst making the idea of Vivian returning to the Shadow Sirens at the end of the game less of a massive "what the fuck were you thinking" moment.
 
Cheetah6442 said:
Outside of the catcalling stuff, I wouldn't call most of this censoring.
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I was just referring to the catcalling stuff, I feel like the other script changes are just that, script changes. Lunkhead just sounds funnier than airhead, for example. But I think there's some choice lines that Nintendo will probably want to reword a bit more cause of their connotations, like the floozy line.
 
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While the changes in dialogue that I've seen so far don't really bother me a ton, I do think it's pretty pointless and overzealous. They're obviously not removing every single "edgy" line, so it's interesting and honestly just silly to me to see where Nintendo feels it's appropriate to draw lines. Hooktail's infamous lines are arguably still the most creepy thing, and those were mostly retained, probably just because it's become "iconic" and Nintendo knew it would piss people off more to take that one out than the Goombas hitting on Goombella (which, of course, has still pissed several people off). We all knew going in that this wasn't going to be a carbon copy of the original, and dialogue changes were some of the first things I expected, so it just is what it is and I have to say suck it up to myself and everyone else who isn't a fan of changing some of the stuff. The original will always be there and can't be erased from history regardless, like all the other examples of classic fiction to be altered over the years.
 
Personally I'm glad the script is getting changes from the original release because it actually gives them the opportunity to A) potentially acknowledge Vivian's character arc in the west, and B) polish up Vivian's character arc in Japanese, because it feels like what they were going for was well-intentioned, but is definitely quite dated given it was 20 years ago.

Just like SMRPG HD restoring some references and jokes lost in the original translation, I think it'll be neat to see the differences. And hey, more Paper Mario dialogue is always a good thing. If it was just 1-1 the original GC text, it'd just be a prettier version of the game with some QoL that runs worse, and I think that would give it less to stand on it's own.
 
personally speaking I don't like changing the dialogue up like this but the changes also seem minor enough that if I wasn't reading about it I honestly don't think i'd have even noticed

to be honest it mostly just makes me miss the days where I was less "online" and didn't follow this stuff so obsessively
 
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Kaizo said:
While the changes in dialogue that I've seen so far don't really bother me a ton, I do think it's pretty pointless and overzealous. They're obviously not removing every single "edgy" line, so it's interesting and honestly just silly to me to see where Nintendo feels it's appropriate to draw lines. Hooktail's infamous lines are arguably still the most creepy thing, and those were mostly retained, probably just because it's become "iconic" and Nintendo knew it would piss people off more to take that one out than the Goombas hitting on Goombella (which, of course, has still pissed several people off). We all knew going in that this wasn't going to be a carbon copy of the original, and dialogue changes were some of the first things I expected, so it just is what it is and I have to say suck it up to myself and everyone else who isn't a fan of changing some of the stuff. The original will always be there and can't be erased from history regardless, like all the other examples of classic fiction to be altered over the years.
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What, you don't want a quick sniff of world renowned feet?
 
Kaizo said:
While the changes in dialogue that I've seen so far don't really bother me a ton, I do think it's pretty pointless and overzealous. They're obviously not removing every single "edgy" line, so it's interesting and honestly just silly to me to see where Nintendo feels it's appropriate to draw lines. Hooktail's infamous lines are arguably still the most creepy thing, and those were mostly retained, probably just because it's become "iconic" and Nintendo knew it would piss people off more to take that one out than the Goombas hitting on Goombella (which, of course, has still pissed several people off). We all knew going in that this wasn't going to be a carbon copy of the original, and dialogue changes were some of the first things I expected, so it just is what it is and I have to say suck it up to myself and everyone else who isn't a fan of changing some of the stuff. The original will always be there and can't be erased from history regardless, like all the other examples of classic fiction to be altered over the years.
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The Goombas providing a vague threat of sexual assault is an order of magnitude "creepier" than what's fairly typical gross out humour that the vast majority of the audience will not read with any sexual meaning (whereas the former only has romantic or sexual meaning, even if the degree changes with perspective). It's actually the perfect example of something only someone really online would think poses an issue.
 
Jersh said:
Yes, it's the Switch, but it's also a fixed-perspective game built for the GameCube. There's no need to act like 60 fps is impossible on this hardware, we've gotten plenty of gorgeous games that run at 60 fps. That's just not the route they decided to take, which is a subjective artistic choice. By nature, it's going to be divisive. That's fine, but like any divisive choice, some are going to voice complaints.

As I mentioned in my last post on the subject, the framerate is part of the visuals; the motion smoothness itself has an impact on how the scene looks. For me, commenting on the framerate is commenting on the visual fidelity. I also called out that trading off framerate for other aspects is a tradeoff; I figured it was implicit I felt the additions to the game's visuals do in fact look very good. I didn't think I needed to spell that out, but perhaps that was my mistake.


The first sentence doesn't support the second. It's likely not an engine limitation, and even if it was, they'd make the necessary changes to the engine to support 60 fps if they genuinely wanted it (just look at how much love this release is getting; it clearly wasn't something they decided to quickly churn out to fill a release gap). Yes, they're intentionally making it 30 fps as they believe that it's worth the tradeoff for the visuals, but that's not inherently the engine's fault.


The first two games in that list actually max out at 900p. The rest do hit 1080p, but have some amount of resolution scaling (varies heavily on the game; IIRC, 3D World isn't at 1080p often at all, while MK8D is virtually-but-not-quite-always there) save for DKCTF.



Those things aside, I want to take a second to call out these:




It's genuinely frustrating to be told that I'm nitpicking, or that it doesn't make a difference in this kind of game, or that you don't care and therefore I shouldn't, or I'm weird/trying too hard/missing the forest for the trees by caring (which is the vibe I get from all of these posts).

I've always been able to tell the difference at a glance. Not from training my eyes for it or anything, I can just see it, instantly, and I have a strong preference for smoother motion. I can still remember getting A Link Between Worlds for Christmas 10 years ago and instantly noticing that it was smoother than I was used to Zelda games being (and thinking the smooth motion looked good), well before I actually knew what the cause of that was. I'm not some alien for this; different people just have different sensitivity. I don't necessarily think I'm in the majority, but I also don't think the level of sensitivity I have is particularly uncommon.

Ironically, the only reason I haven't long moved on from this conversation is because I'm essentially being told I'm caring about something I shouldn't, as if I'm not allowed to hold the opinion that smooth motion looks really good. If the posts from the "I don't care" camp were all like @Tye's:

then I wouldn't feel a need to defend myself so strongly. "I value the lighting effects over smoother motion" is a perfectly fine and valid opinion to have, and depending on how big the cutbacks would need to be to get to 60 fps, I might even agree myself despite my appreciation for 60+ fps (again, looking forward to seeing what people do with mods and maybe even messing around myself on my launch unit). But trying to discredit my opinion as being over something that doesn't matter is just rude; framerate is something I notice immediately and personally find to be obvious, though I understand that's not the experience everyone has.
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Abebe Tinari, director of Bayonetta Origins, has explaned why Inteligent Systems choose 30fps for the Paper Mario the Thousand Years Door remake, istead of the 60fps the original 2004 run



gonintendo.com

Bayonetta Origins dev weighs in on the Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door frame rate controversy

Interesting dev insights
gonintendo.com gonintendo.com
 
TTYD fans for the past fifteen years : « I'd really wish Nintendo would remake the game so that everyone can see that it's a masterpiece »

TTYD fans when Nintendo makes some seemingly slight changes to the game to make it more beautiful and enjoyable by modern audiences : « NO NOT LIKE THAT »

I get that some of y’all grew up with the game and that some stuff in it feel like it’s problematic but younger audiences will definitely notice. I’m plenty sure the game will still be extremely funny (as every PM game is) even if Nintendo/IS get rid of the few stuff in it that haven’t age well (which many others in the thread have already pointed out).
 
Kaizo said:
While the changes in dialogue that I've seen so far don't really bother me a ton, I do think it's pretty pointless and overzealous. They're obviously not removing every single "edgy" line, so it's interesting and honestly just silly to me to see where Nintendo feels it's appropriate to draw lines. Hooktail's infamous lines are arguably still the most creepy thing, and those were mostly retained, probably just because it's become "iconic" and Nintendo knew it would piss people off more to take that one out than the Goombas hitting on Goombella (which, of course, has still pissed several people off). We all knew going in that this wasn't going to be a carbon copy of the original, and dialogue changes were some of the first things I expected, so it just is what it is and I have to say suck it up to myself and everyone else who isn't a fan of changing some of the stuff. The original will always be there and can't be erased from history regardless, like all the other examples of classic fiction to be altered over the years.
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They are not in the same ballpark of creepiness.

The humor in Hooktail's joke is just that it's aesthetically disgusting, the other is that the disgusting creeps are being given the smack.

Party Sklar said:
TTYD fans for the past fifteen years : « I'd really wish Nintendo would remake the game so that everyone can see that it's a masterpiece »

TTYD fans when Nintendo makes some seemingly slight changes to the game to make it more beautiful and enjoyable by modern audiences : « NO NOT LIKE THAT »

I get that some of y’all grew up with the game and that some stuff in it feel like it’s problematic but younger audiences will definitely notice. I’m plenty sure the game will still be extremely funny (as every PM game is) even if Nintendo/IS get rid of the few stuff in it that haven’t age well (which many others in the thread have already pointed out).
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I feel the discussion has been genuine here, so IDK what TTYD fans you're talking about unless you feel like actually specifying your targets. Even if the changes are ultimately not a big deal it's an interesting talking point to at least discuss about the subject of localization and intent behind the script.

Yeah kids would notice the harsh script, but whether they would feel offended by it like a teen or adult is up to debate. Whatever impact they feel is something I imagine they reflect on in many years. (And even then, only the nerdiest of the nerds who grow up will care about the differences between these versions.)
 
I'm surprised people are more up in arms regarding the minor script changes here, compared to the relatively muted response to the more far-reaching changes seen in the Super Mario RPG remake. As others have said, if you want a version of the game that was completely untouched, the original remains your best bet (after all, a simpe Pikmin 1/2-esque HD port would've been underwhelming).

I also wouldn't say this is a "negative" influence from later Paper Mario games, because later games still have excellent writing.
 
Now that we know they’re going hard on the OST I’m daydreaming about even more possibilities.

Hooktail, Gloomtail, Bonetail each with their own spin on their theme? An all new theme that combines the Sirens and Doopliss themes for their Chapter 8 battle? Magnus theme going even harder for 2.0?
 
buildz said:
I'm surprised people are more up in arms regarding the minor script changes here, compared to the relatively muted response to the more far-reaching changes seen in the Super Mario RPG remake. As others have said, if you want a version of the game that was completely untouched, the original remains your best bet (after all, a simpe Pikmin 1/2-esque HD port would've been underwhelming).

I also wouldn't say this is a "negative" influence from later Paper Mario games, because later games still have excellent writing.
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Paper Mario does have the benefit of being relatively newer, and TTYD has kinda been turned mythical by being the last game of it's type. (And years of youtube influencers singing its praises.)

And also, TTYD just has more meat on its bones than SMRPG. One chapter of TTYD has moredialogue than the whole of SMRPG.

It's like this paper white whale bobbing on the surface with crews of Ahab's chasing it's elusive and magical glint. Before they get a paper cut. (I don't know why I used a Moby Dick metaphor.)

Hailinel said:
Eh, it didn't do anything to help TMS. Localization discourse gets stupid.
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What happened to TMS?
 
Hailinel said:
Lots of "censorship" whining over the localization changes, none of which helped in any effort to market a game that was already aimed at a niche.
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Oh Tokyo Mirage Session and the mess that was associated with it. My old man brain for some reason was thinking of the animation studio.

Well I feel sheepish.
 
Hailinel said:
Lots of "censorship" whining over the localization changes, none of which helped in any effort to market a game that was already aimed at a niche.
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TMS was a bad localization though. It's easy to laugh at the dumbasses but there's quite a few things they changed for the worse.

Some of the things (like changing everyone to be legal adults in the US) they changed make sense, but others are just plain bizarre (changing the appearance of a boss in a cutscene for age rating reasons, but then... not changing the boss in the fight so the change was pointless) and one is arguably in poor taste towards the source material and makes light of real world problems (the entire third arc of the game was rewritten from being about swimsuit modeling and how skeezy that is to be about... feeling good while wearing weird clothes). There's also a whole slew of appearance changes in the animated segments that are better executed, but still reek of "we tried to push the international age rating down here", which is well, weird considering the kinda game TMS is.

They also just... didn't release a bunch of DLC in the overseas version, likely because it was focused on hot springs and is overly fanservicey.

--
TMS is a niche but it's also a niche outside of any audience you might expect the game to appeal to. I don't think anyone who is a fan of Fire Emblem or Shin Megami Tensei would look at that game and go "okay, this is clearly what a crossover looks like"; to say it had an uphill battle from the getgo would be an understatement (in fact, if you look online, the main response to TMS from FE/SMT fans is "...this is what they were working on?"). And of course even moreso overseas since idol culture in that way is a pretty japan-exclusive thing.

Combine this with localization changes that had moreso a place in a 4kids dub... and yeah you'd pretty much alienate 90% of your buyers on that alone.

Which would have been about all there is to say about it... if they didn't port the game to the Switch a few years later. And then Nintendo decided to use the English release of the game as a base since they wanted to rush a worldwide same-day release out. For the Japanese version, meaning that all these changes are now in the Japanese version as well.
 
buildz said:
I'm surprised people are more up in arms regarding the minor script changes here, compared to the relatively muted response to the more far-reaching changes seen in the Super Mario RPG remake. As others have said, if you want a version of the game that was completely untouched, the original remains your best bet (after all, a simpe Pikmin 1/2-esque HD port would've been underwhelming).

I also wouldn't say this is a "negative" influence from later Paper Mario games, because later games still have excellent writing.
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I don't recall many actual negative changes to the script, other than changing some character names to better match the original Japanese ones? It's hard to argue with that, really. Mario not giving the V sign sucks, but that's about all I can think of.

I mean the removal of references to Mario being a plumber is weird considering the movie doubled down on it all.

Also for the record, even the simple Pikmin 1/2 port got script changes that were completely pointless. Not even those can survive.
 
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Razgriz said:
TMS was a bad localization though. It's easy to laugh at the dumbasses but there's quite a few things they changed for the worse.

Some of the things (like changing everyone to be legal adults in the US) they changed make sense, but others are just plain bizarre (changing the appearance of a boss in a cutscene for age rating reasons, but then... not changing the boss in the fight so the change was pointless) and one is arguably in poor taste towards the source material and makes light of real world problems (the entire third arc of the game was rewritten from being about swimsuit modeling and how skeezy that is to be about... feeling good while wearing weird clothes). There's also a whole slew of appearance changes in the animated segments that are better executed, but still reek of "we tried to push the international age rating down here", which is well, weird considering the kinda game TMS is.

They also just... didn't release a bunch of DLC in the overseas version, likely because it was focused on hot springs and is overly fanservicey.

--
TMS is a niche but it's also a niche outside of any audience you might expect the game to appeal to. I don't think anyone who is a fan of Fire Emblem or Shin Megami Tensei would look at that game and go "okay, this is clearly what a crossover looks like"; to say it had an uphill battle from the getgo would be an understatement (in fact, if you look online, the main response to TMS from FE/SMT fans is "...this is what they were working on?"). And of course even moreso overseas since idol culture in that way is a pretty japan-exclusive thing.

Combine this with localization changes that had moreso a place in a 4kids dub... and yeah you'd pretty much alienate 90% of your buyers on that alone.

Which would have been about all there is to say about it... if they didn't port the game to the Switch a few years later. And then Nintendo decided to use the English release of the game as a base since they wanted to rush a worldwide same-day release out. For the Japanese version, meaning that all these changes are now in the Japanese version as well.

To be clear, I don't hate Treehouse, but they're just poor fits for some games and I don't think TMS is a game that needs cover from their screwups just because some dumbass on Twitter didn't get how anatomy works.
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TMS was localized by Atlus.
 
ze_ said:
The Goombas providing a vague threat of sexual assault is an order of magnitude "creepier" than what's fairly typical gross out humour that the vast majority of the audience will not read with any sexual meaning (whereas the former only has romantic or sexual meaning, even if the degree changes with perspective). It's actually the perfect example of something only someone really online would think poses an issue.
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Well, on the topic of sexual assault, Mario clearly shakes his head to say “no” to Flurrie before she makes out with him against his will. This is still in the remake. I’d argue against “vast majority” reading Hooktail’s thing innocently; are not many, many gamers “really online?” I’ve seen it brought up by people I know irl who’ve played it as well.
 
Razgriz said:
My mistake. Just realized that. Edited it out of my post. Still, it was a bad localization and I don't get why people are so adamant on defending it.
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Not to pick on you, but this kind of highlights how quick people are to blame NOA/Treehouse like some boogeyman that either acts with complete cluelessness or some malevolent agenda when they're just...localizing games in direct partnership with the developers.

Three Houses was localized by Treehouse, but people tend to not give them credit for the work they did on it. I've even seen people shit on Treehouse's work on Three Houses to puff up 8-4's work on Three Hopes when...Three Hopes's localization is based off of what Treehouse did.

And now we have people out there ready to accuse Treehouse of ruining TTYD with wokeness or whatever stupid reason they want to think is behind goombas no longer catcalling and making probable rape comments in a Mario game.
 
Kaizo said:
Well, on the topic of sexual assault, Mario clearly shakes his head to say “no” to Flurrie before she makes out with him against his will. This is still in the remake. I’d argue against “vast majority” reading Hooktail’s thing innocently; are not many, many gamers “really online?” I’ve seen it brought up by people I know irl who’ve played it as well.
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Yes, I do think it's a world apart from these other examples. There is an obvious intent you have to willfully ignore to jump to the sexual interpretation.
 
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