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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Stilt Village said:
It's interesting to me that they changed it at all. Have we seen any other lines altered? Is this a full refresh of the English script? It had plenty of errors, but it wasn't nearly as badly in need of a redo as Super Mario RPG and could have been just fine untouched.

If they specifically chose to alter this aspect of it, that would be really interesting and a better sign of intentionality with uncensoring Vivian than if they were going over the whole thing and just decided to do a somewhat more accurate translation of the dialogue this time around.
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The whole thing has been changed. Some lines are practically the same, but I feel that's by extension of the translation process.
 
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Most localizers these days are incredibly knowledgeable about existing iterations of a game's script, the memes in them, etc. I'm not surprised the feet thing was kept -- it's a well-known part of the game's humor.
 
Does anyone know where I can find a reliable site that has the Japanese script/translation for the Vivian encounter?
 
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Gabev said:
Huh, I am kind of wondering if they are going to avoid the issue altogether now, like maybe none of the shadow sirens will have a gender at all since they are shadow beings, I am super curious how this all works out.
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This doesn't seem to be the case, at the very least; VIvian's description on the UK site doesn't shy away from gendered language:

Obs3MjS.png



There are script changes, no matter how subtle, to the dialogue surrounding the Three Shadows (will take awhile to get used to this name) in the Japanese version too; even the single screen of this segment present on the Japanese site:

4q5Nhly.png
ZHapvEH.png


I'm not confident enough to predict what particular direction they've decided on quite yet, but something is happening at least. No matter what I can't imagine the Japanese script remains unchanged in regards to Vivian's treatment; just depends on whether they spin into a more position portrayal of her trans identity (please), or take the easy way out and make her cis everywhere. Wish we could just get the answer now, one way or another, but we're only a month away from knowing for sure I suppose.
 
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switchum said:
INCREDIBLE NEWS

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Lmao, they must have known they’d upset people too much if they removed it. So surprised but glad it’s there, much like “Peach’s ???” in Super Mario RPG. Main thing I can think of left for me is if they still let you do invisible streaking as Peach; the shower thing is still there, so it seems likely.
 
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This is shaping up to be an amazing remake, I'm so excited! I really hope they're gonna take the best parts of this gameplay and go hard with it on the next game.
 
Phendrift said:
Oof, Three Shadows is a name I don’t really like :/

Shadow Sirens is iconic. Can’t comprehend a reason for that change.
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Because “siren” is a gendered term and, if they really are acknowledging Vivian being trans and her sisters’ transphobia towards her in the new localization, it would make sense that her sisters wouldn’t want to call their group something that they believe to be untrue because of Vivian’s inclusion. Also, as others have already stated, it’s the name used in the Japanese version.
 
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MondoMega said:
This doesn't seem to be the case, at the very least; VIvian's description on the UK site doesn't shy away from gendered language:

Obs3MjS.png



There are script changes, no matter how subtle, to the dialogue surrounding the Three Shadows (will take awhile to get used to this name) in the Japanese version too; even the single screen of this segment present on the Japanese site:

4q5Nhly.png
ZHapvEH.png


I'm not confident enough to predict what particular direction they've decided on quite yet, but something is happening at least. No matter what I can't imagine the Japanese script remains unchanged in regards to Vivian's treatment; just depends on whether they spin into a more position portrayal of her trans identity (please), or take the easy way out and make her cis everywhere. Wish we could just get the answer now, one way or another, but we're only a month away from knowing for sure I suppose.
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I appreciate the info, I was unaware of the bio tab so that no gender theory is cut up. It also never occurred to me that the Japanese script would also get touched up as well.
 
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The Three Shadows is a bit of a plain name. I mean if you want to go for something not gendered, I'd think something like "The Silhouettes" or the "Shadow Trio" would be cool. A little more punch there.

Edit: Wait. They are called the Shadow Trio in Japan.... so why not just use the word Trio instead of Three? It's a fancier word.
 
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Yeah Three Shadows allows them to append on a 3rd word depending on the who is speaking. Vivian is going to call them the 'Three Shadow Sisters' and Beldam will say 'Three Shadow Relation Redacted'
They actually might be going through with this making it clear that Vivian is trans and making Beldam a transphobe.

We need to see more to confirm for sure.
 
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I do have to say I am not enthused about the new speech bubble sound effect. Maybe I’ll get used to it but the old one was so iconic that it’ll take some time getting used to.
 
Starting to see some stuff I'd like to discover for myself so dipping out of the thread. Can't wait until this drops, see y'all in the release thread!!
 
Mekanos said:
I do have to say I am not enthused about the new speech bubble sound effect. Maybe I’ll get used to it but the old one was so iconic that it’ll take some time getting used to.
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What's wrong with the bubble sound effect? I argue it's way better than a generic bubble sound effect since it adds more charm to the characters. Not to say I didn't like the old sfx tho.
 
Cheetah6442 said:
What's wrong with the bubble sound effect? I argue it's way better than a generic bubble sound effect since it adds more charm to the characters. Not to say I didn't like the old sfx tho.
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Well like I said, for me I’m used to the old one, it’s a sound you’ll hear probably thousands of times and it’s a very satisfying sound intrinsically linked to the many times I’ve played TTYD. I don’t begrudge the developers for wanting to add more flavor but personally I can see it becoming distracting. But I am open to being wrong and playing the game and totally loving that aspect.

It’s a minor nitpick all in all. Most everything else looks great.
 
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Given the GCN OST is available and the original game already had a lot of SFX badges, I could see there also being an option to use the original sound effect over voices. Personally I really like the change though, the thwomp one in particular is hilarious. Really big Banjo-Kazooie gibberish vibes.
 
Thank god the characters actually make noises while talking this time, instead of it being creepily silent like in the Mario RPG remake. Just having basic sounds makes it so much more appealing to me.
 
The more I look at this the less impressed I get. Not to say that I was impressed to begin with but still, the expectations just keep going down.

The new speech sounds are annoying. At first, I was fine with them but the more gameplay I watch the more annoying it gets. It’s another thing that would be fine if you could turn it off and revert to the original, but I’m not sure if they have the option for it. I doubt it tho.

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I do find it weird how they are acting like the quick partner swap is a new feature when it was in the original game. There was a D-pad shortcut in the original that let you go directly into the partner sub menu, so this “new feature” isn't even going to save time. The same thing kind of goes for the warp pipes to different locations in the game, I guess it’s a little more convenient now but meh. Always thought the backtracking complaint was an overblown issue with the original.

Can’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is 😬 but then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra 😬😬

The new music is "fine" can't say it's really doing much for me. Can't believe they are giving you an option to play with the original. At least there is that, bet if the option wasn't there I would no doubt see some flimsy defense about how that's unreasonable to expect in a remake.

Really would have loved for a new difficulty mode tho, for people who played the original. TTYD is overall easier than PM64. My biggest complaint about TTYD and this remake doesn't even address it. Thanks, I guess?

This is just TTYD minus 30fps and given how well the original art style still holds up and how few gameplay improvements there are in this remake. I would have just taken a Mario 3D All Stars like emulation of the original game at this point. At least then it would play at the intended smoothness, and it would still look perfectly fine.

One thing I am glad tho is that they are more accurate to the original JP script. But still, what a bummer this remake is turning out to be. Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising given how mishandled this series has been post 2004, but I wouldn’t have ever thought they would underdeliver a TTYD Remake.
 
VDenter said:
The more I look at this the less impressed I get. Not to say that I was impressed to begin with but still, the expectations just keep going down.

The new speech sounds are annoying. At first, I was fine with them but the more gameplay I watch the more annoying it gets. It’s another thing that would be fine if you could turn it off and revert to the original, but I’m not sure if they have the option for it. I doubt it tho.

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I do find it weird how they are acting like the quick partner swap is a new feature when it was in the original game. There was a D-pad shortcut in the original that let you go directly into the partner sub menu, so this “new feature” isn't even going to save time. The same thing kind of goes for the warp pipes to different locations in the game, I guess it’s a little more convenient now but meh. Always thought the backtracking complaint was an overblown issue with the original.

Can’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is 😬 but then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra 😬😬

The new music is "fine" can't say it's really doing much for me. Can't believe they are giving you an option to play with the original. At least there is that, bet if the option wasn't there I would no doubt see some flimsy defense about how that's unreasonable to expect in a remake.

Really would have loved for a new difficulty mode tho, for people who played the original. TTYD is overall easier than PM64. My biggest complaint about TTYD and this remake doesn't even address it. Thanks, I guess?

This is just TTYD minus 30fps and given how well the original art style still holds up and how few gameplay improvements there are in this remake. I would have just taken a Mario 3D All Stars like emulation of the original game at this point. At least then it would play at the intended smoothness, and it would still look perfectly fine.

One thing I am glad tho is that they are more accurate to the original JP script. But still, what a bummer this remake is turning out to be. Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising given how mishandled this series has been post 2004, but I wouldn’t have ever thought they would underdeliver a TTYD Remake.
Click to expand...
...I for one, am just glad we are even getting a TTYD Remake to begin with, all things considered.

2020: "Nintendo doesn't care for us Paper Mario fans! I bet they won't even go back to TTYD..."
2024: "Nintendo doesn't care for us Paper Mario fans because we aren't getting TTYD Remake that I want..."
 
SiG said:
...I for one, am just glad we are even getting a TTYD Remake to begin with, all things considered.

2020: "Nintendo doesn't care for us Paper Mario fans! I bet they won't even go back to TTYD..."
2024: "Nintendo doesn't care for us Paper Mario fans because we aren't getting TTYD Remake that I want..."
Click to expand...

I mean i can't speak for anyone else but i was not in either of those camps you listed. 🤷‍♂️
 
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For dogwhistling that "creativity" takes precedence over potentially offending other people, and a history of similar commentary dismissing problematic politics, you are being banned for three days. - ngpdrew, Zellia, BassForever, Lord Azrael, blg, TC
Mer.Saloon said:
The Three Shadows is a bit of a plain name.
Click to expand...

We live in a world where creative minds are afraid to be creative just in case they offend anyone, sadly. It is what it is..
 
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Mer.Saloon said:
The Three Shadows is a bit of a plain name. I mean if you want to go for something not gendered, I'd think something like "The Silhouettes" or the "Shadow Trio" would be cool. A little more punch there.

Edit: Wait. They are called the Shadow Trio in Japan.... so why not just use the word Trio instead of Three? It's a fancier word.
Click to expand...
Will you let me explain this for a minute? I speak Japanese.

so..

Vivian calls them the "Three Shadow Sisters" kage san shimai. Beldam gaslights her and says we are the "Three Shadow Group (literal trans). Kage San Gumi.

The word switched out is the suffix, "shimai" (sisters) with "Gumi" (group)

A natural translation of Three Shadow Group (non gendered) is to say "Shadow Trio"

Basically in the original Japanese, Vivian says 'We are the 3 shadow sisters" then Beldam yells at her and says she is a man and changes it to "three shadow group" (trio)

They could have just gotten rid of "three" and had vivian say "We are the shadow sisters!" then beldam say "What are you saying?! You're a man!" then call themselves the "Shadow Trio"

I bet Vivian says "Three Shadow Sisters" in this so then Beldam says "Three Shadow -- Relationship Redacted --" To keep consistency, also I think they are really trying to drive home the abuse of Beldam here.
 
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VDenter said:
The more I look at this the less impressed I get. Not to say that I was impressed to begin with but still, the expectations just keep going down.

The new speech sounds are annoying. At first, I was fine with them but the more gameplay I watch the more annoying it gets. It’s another thing that would be fine if you could turn it off and revert to the original, but I’m not sure if they have the option for it. I doubt it tho.

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I do find it weird how they are acting like the quick partner swap is a new feature when it was in the original game. There was a D-pad shortcut in the original that let you go directly into the partner sub menu, so this “new feature” isn't even going to save time. The same thing kind of goes for the warp pipes to different locations in the game, I guess it’s a little more convenient now but meh. Always thought the backtracking complaint was an overblown issue with the original.

Can’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is 😬 but then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra 😬😬

The new music is "fine" can't say it's really doing much for me. Can't believe they are giving you an option to play with the original. At least there is that, bet if the option wasn't there I would no doubt see some flimsy defense about how that's unreasonable to expect in a remake.

Really would have loved for a new difficulty mode tho, for people who played the original. TTYD is overall easier than PM64. My biggest complaint about TTYD and this remake doesn't even address it. Thanks, I guess?

This is just TTYD minus 30fps and given how well the original art style still holds up and how few gameplay improvements there are in this remake. I would have just taken a Mario 3D All Stars like emulation of the original game at this point. At least then it would play at the intended smoothness, and it would still look perfectly fine.

One thing I am glad tho is that they are more accurate to the original JP script. But still, what a bummer this remake is turning out to be. Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising given how mishandled this series has been post 2004, but I wouldn’t have ever thought they would underdeliver a TTYD Remake.
Click to expand...
Agreed about the difficulty mode!
 
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VDenter said:
The more I look at this the less impressed I get. Not to say that I was impressed to begin with but still, the expectations just keep going down.

The new speech sounds are annoying. At first, I was fine with them but the more gameplay I watch the more annoying it gets. It’s another thing that would be fine if you could turn it off and revert to the original, but I’m not sure if they have the option for it. I doubt it tho.

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I do find it weird how they are acting like the quick partner swap is a new feature when it was in the original game. There was a D-pad shortcut in the original that let you go directly into the partner sub menu, so this “new feature” isn't even going to save time. The same thing kind of goes for the warp pipes to different locations in the game, I guess it’s a little more convenient now but meh. Always thought the backtracking complaint was an overblown issue with the original.

Can’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is 😬 but then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra 😬😬

The new music is "fine" can't say it's really doing much for me. Can't believe they are giving you an option to play with the original. At least there is that, bet if the option wasn't there I would no doubt see some flimsy defense about how that's unreasonable to expect in a remake.

Really would have loved for a new difficulty mode tho, for people who played the original. TTYD is overall easier than PM64. My biggest complaint about TTYD and this remake doesn't even address it. Thanks, I guess?

This is just TTYD minus 30fps and given how well the original art style still holds up and how few gameplay improvements there are in this remake. I would have just taken a Mario 3D All Stars like emulation of the original game at this point. At least then it would play at the intended smoothness, and it would still look perfectly fine.

One thing I am glad tho is that they are more accurate to the original JP script. But still, what a bummer this remake is turning out to be. Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising given how mishandled this series has been post 2004, but I wouldn’t have ever thought they would underdeliver a TTYD Remake.
Click to expand...
They're making improvements to the back tracking, that alone will make the Switch version the superior release. I say this as someone who didn't have an issue with the back tracking in TTYD.
 
Everything about this looks great and that pleases me cuz I was going to have to buy this even if it were a mere HD release since my Gamecube simply went KAPUT years ago.
 
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VDenter said:
The more I look at this the less impressed I get. Not to say that I was impressed to begin with but still, the expectations just keep going down.

The new speech sounds are annoying. At first, I was fine with them but the more gameplay I watch the more annoying it gets. It’s another thing that would be fine if you could turn it off and revert to the original, but I’m not sure if they have the option for it. I doubt it tho.

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I do find it weird how they are acting like the quick partner swap is a new feature when it was in the original game. There was a D-pad shortcut in the original that let you go directly into the partner sub menu, so this “new feature” isn't even going to save time. The same thing kind of goes for the warp pipes to different locations in the game, I guess it’s a little more convenient now but meh. Always thought the backtracking complaint was an overblown issue with the original.

Can’t say I’m thrilled about having references to modern PM games in TTYD. Being reminded of those games at all is 😬 but then putting a reminder of them in TTYD is extra 😬😬

The new music is "fine" can't say it's really doing much for me. Can't believe they are giving you an option to play with the original. At least there is that, bet if the option wasn't there I would no doubt see some flimsy defense about how that's unreasonable to expect in a remake.

Really would have loved for a new difficulty mode tho, for people who played the original. TTYD is overall easier than PM64. My biggest complaint about TTYD and this remake doesn't even address it. Thanks, I guess?

This is just TTYD minus 30fps and given how well the original art style still holds up and how few gameplay improvements there are in this remake. I would have just taken a Mario 3D All Stars like emulation of the original game at this point. At least then it would play at the intended smoothness, and it would still look perfectly fine.

One thing I am glad tho is that they are more accurate to the original JP script. But still, what a bummer this remake is turning out to be. Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising given how mishandled this series has been post 2004, but I wouldn’t have ever thought they would underdeliver a TTYD Remake.
Click to expand...
I mean at this point you gotta just stick to the original.
 
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