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Discussion Nintendo should make a powerful console.

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CastletonSnob

CastletonSnob

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You have a history of creating threads with minimal information in the OPs about potentially divisive subject matter. Please try to take extra care in creating future topics. - blondkayvon, Donnie, mazi
I've heard people make the argument that "Nintendo shouldn't make a powerful console to directly compete with Sony and Microsoft, since the N64 and GameCube, both powerful consoles, failed!"

Here's the thing: The N64 and GameCube didn't fail because they were trying to compete against Sony and Microsoft, they failed because Nintendo made stupid decisions with those consoles, like sticking with cartridges and using mini-DVDs. A Nintendo console on par with the PS5 and Xbox Series X would most likely do very well. Imagine a Nintendo console with amazing first party AND third party games, and having Mario and Zelda in 4k and 60 FPS.
 
Nintendo basically can't make a powerfull console.

Consoles like Series X and PS5 are so advance that they are absically required to be sold at a loss on the first months of the console. Sony and Microsoft have that money to burn because they are big non gaming companies. Nintendo literally only has videogames.
 
I’d rather have the best hybrid console they can make. I already have the PS5/XSX for big 4K consoles, I don’t need another one.
 
Platy said:
Nintendo basically can't make a powerfull console.

Consoles like Series X and PS5 are so advance that they are absically required to be sold at a loss on the first months of the console. Sony and Microsoft have that money to burn because they are big non gaming companies. Nintendo literally only has videogames.
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Nintendo has enough money to lose money for 50 years and still stay in business. They absolutely have enough money to make a powerful console.

Why do Nintendo fans keep making excuses for Nintendo's unwillingness to make a powerful console?
 
CastletonSnob said:
A Nintendo console on par with the PS5 and Xbox Series X would most likely do very well.
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there is zero precedency to say that though

while there is quite the history that justifies the thought that nintendo shouldnt make powerful consoles, because they'd sell bad
 
Kano said:
there is zero precedency to say that though

while there is quite the history that justifies the thought that nintendo shouldnt make powerful consoles
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OK, but I addressed that point in the OP. The N64 and GameCube failed because Nintendo made stupid decisions like sticking with cartridges and using mini-discs, not because they were powerful. If Nintendo had used CDs, those consoles would have done MUCH better.
 
I think a more powerful console would have done better than the Wii U, but worse than the Switch. At this point there's no reason to pour resources into something like it when the Switch is doing as well as it is anyways.
 
Based on the discussion around the Nvidia NVN2 leak, they are making a powerful hybrid console with DLSS and raytracing.
As someone who loves the hybrid form factor, sounds pretty good to me. 4K first-party games with enough juice for third-party ports.
 
I would love to see it happen as long as there's a handheld alternative to go alongside it but I don't see it being more succesful than the hybrid style and I don't see them going for it.
 
The 3 best selling Nintendo consoles are the Gameboy/Color, the DS and the Switch. The handheld console market has always been Nintendo's gold mine. Why would they make a more powerful console if they can't reach the handheld/hybrid market.
 
CastletonSnob said:
OK, but I addressed that point in the OP. The N64 and GameCube failed because Nintendo made stupid decisions like sticking with cartridges and using mini-discs, not because they were powerful. If Nintendo had used CDs, those consoles would have done MUCH better.
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You say that but nothing proves it lol, you didn't address anything. What is true though is that a common point between these two failures is that they were both consoles aimed at being super powerful. Meanwhile the second they dropped the power angle, they sold 250 millions consoles.
 
CastletonSnob said:
Nintendo has enough money to lose money for 50 years and still stay in business.
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That's...not the way any business thinks, ever.

Why on earth would they spend a huge amount of money to engineer a less differentiated product when they have found a hugely popular market segment that they have all to themselves? That's the question that needs to be answered to make the case for a more powerful Nintendo console, not "did the N64 fail because of cartridges or not"
 
The switch was about as powerful as it could possibly be for its time to ensure half decent battery life, and a lot of people still thought the batt life was too low.

Given battery life constraints OP's hope won't happen as long as nintendo continue with the hybrid approach, and given its success there's no reason they should change for the switch succ
 
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I’d rather have a powerful handheld that also works as a decent console. Something like the Switch.
 
I disagree with this because I think at least one console should be versatile, and the Switch is especially versatile in use.

I don't see Sony or Microsoft being interested in versatility over power in any of their consoles anytime soon, and no one else is really jumping into the console market with versatility in mind on a large scale.

I would love for all the third-party games that I enjoy to come to a Nintendo console because the port is easier to do, and I am annoyed to some degree when people accuse teams porting from PS/Xbox to Switch of laziness (it's probably not an easy port, and just because there are good ports out there doesn't mean that the bad ports are just down to laziness).

But, you know, I don't need that. I get that I'm saying this from an position where I can afford to just have multiple consoles, so I get when people who can only have one current-gen console at a time want Nintendo to be able to do everything at once. In that case, I might wish that Nintendo sacrificed versatility for power as well.

However, for my situation, I would prefer that Nintendo continue down the path of focusing on versatility (or heck, different play styles and features) over power.
 
I get their approach, but I would've liked it if they hadn't gimped the Switch somewhat. The Tegra fully supports 4k output and HDR, but for some reason they decided to cut both options. Same for .h265 support, it would've done wonders for games which use video files. but for some insane reason they cut it. I understand that they can't compete, and that's fine. But man, removing some of such obvious features just blows my mind...
 
CastletonSnob said:
Nintendo has enough money to lose money for 50 years and still stay in business. They absolutely have enough money to make a powerful console.

Why do Nintendo fans keep making excuses for Nintendo's unwillingness to make a powerful console?
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Excuses for what? What are we making excuses for that the company has clearly shown they just frankly don’t want to do it.

Here’s an article with Miyamoto a couple years after the GC

Whether you like it or not the company sees themselves and the industry in a certain way. And, will stubbornly stick to it come hell or high water.
 
"If you only expand upon existing hardware, it's dull. In some shape or form, we're always thinking about how we want to surprise players as well as our desire to change each person's video gaming life." - Satoru Iwata
 
I like where we are with the Switch. There is a culture that has been cultivated around it which is counter to the higher horsepower crowd, despite the constant gnashing I see in this forum about Nintendo "needing" more powerful hardware.
Which is to say that it has become a natural home to indie games. And why wouldn't it, when one of Nintendo's biggest releases of a year can be a sidescrolling Metroidvania game, or a faithful remake of a Gameboy-era top-down Zelda game, both sold at full price.

I think the lower technical ceiling could potentially have made Switch more attractive to the indie scene precisely because they know they're not competing against The Last of Us and that the platform is host to an audience who is also not (largely) interested in The Last of Us.
 
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CastletonSnob said:
I've heard people make the argument that "Nintendo shouldn't make a powerful console to directly compete with Sony and Microsoft, since the N64 and GameCube, both powerful consoles, failed!"

Here's the thing: The N64 and GameCube didn't fail because they were trying to compete against Sony and Microsoft, they failed because Nintendo made stupid decisions with those consoles, like sticking with cartridges and using mini-DVDs. A Nintendo console on par with the PS5 and Xbox Series X would most likely do very well. Imagine a Nintendo console with amazing first party AND third party games, and having Mario and Zelda in 4k and 60 FPS.
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One thing you are missing: cost. This hypothetical console will be at par with the cost of the others. This limits the market for Nintendo's target audience.

Also the whole "Why do Nintendo fans keep making excuses for Nintendo's unwillingness to make a powerful console?" is unnecessary. Like are you in the room where they make decisions? Does complaining online make a difference? No. So this "excuses" are people trying to make sense of their decisions
 
It would force them to abandon the hybrid model, which has proven to be massively popular. It would price them out of a lot of potential buyers, and the lack of handheld functionality would mean fewer households would buy multiple consoles. It would also increase the dev costs of their AAA 1st party games, as the possibilities afforded by the extra horsepower would require additional time and effort to actually take advantage of.

If the idea is to just release a standalone version of the Switch that can handle 4K/60FPS, then I can see an argument for that. But, much as I miss the days when Nintendo was helping move the industry forward in terms of tech innovation, I don’t think it makes any sense for them from a business perspective to create a PS5/XSX competitor.
 
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Making a hybrid console was their best move in years, they're not gonna change that and I prefer it that way as well. Portable play is just too convenient.
 
If Nintendo makes a console as powerful as PS5 or Series X, "the online isn't good enough!" will be the excuse for people to dismiss it. If they improved the online, "the online service doesn't give us free current gen games!" will be the excuse for people to dismiss it. And while this is going on the price of the online service and console would increase to compensate, and "greedy Nintendo keeps raising the prices!" will also be an excuse for people to dismiss it. Etc, etc.
 
CastletonSnob said:
If Nintendo made a powerful console, they'd get the same third party support as Sony and Microsoft, which means more people would buy the console.
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Would they though? Nintendo still doesn't have options for live streaming on the console, the storage situation is much more expensive and convoluted (SD cards vs SSDs), no system level achievements, no system level party / group chats, etc. There is a reason that even switching between PS + Xbox is a big decision for a lot of people and I'm not sure availability of games is the only factor.
 
CastletonSnob said:
If Nintendo made a powerful console, they'd get the same third party support as Sony and Microsoft, which means more people would buy the console.
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The Switch is on track for being one of the best selling consoles ever.
It has a library of over four thousand games.

Maybe Microsoft and Sony should instead think about where they're going wrong with their "more power at all costs" approach tbh.
 
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Amiga emulation needs at least a Xbox Series X-2 / 258 power.
That’s why Turrican 3 isn’t available in Turrican Flashback (also the upgraded Pegasus Engine used in Super Turrican 2 used too many wacky techniques for a correct emulation so it was removed from the Turrican Flashback collection).

Mark my words : Turrican Anthologies Vol. 4 & 9 and 7.3 for Switch 2.

Maybe Nintendo « should » but you can be sure that they won’t.

Microsoft and Sony does what Nintendon’t and I’m ok with this. I love my Switch, love my Series X, hate my current PC.
 
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CastletonSnob said:
If Nintendo made a powerful console, they'd get the same third party support as Sony and Microsoft, which means more people would buy the console.
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No they wouldn’t since the goalposts would always be moved.
  • The developer is too small to do a port
  • Why bother when you have PC, PS, & Xbox
  • Console sales are too low
  • Can’t compete with 1st party games
  • Don’t have an audience of the system
  • Online infrastructure
  • Port wasn’t bought enough
  • The machine would compromise our vision/hold it back
  • The controller
  • We’ll get on that as soon as Nintendo pays us
  • Outdated views on Nintendo censorship
  • Something about how only kids can enjoy the system
  • Nintendo systems are only for people to graduate into mature consumers
  • We didn’t think about it at the time
  • Even if we did no one has a clue how to get things to work on the system
I could literally go one. At some point all of these have been used by 3rd parties. Hell a decent chunk of this list has been used just this gen with the Switch with a couple of new ones added.
 
The upcoming Switch Drake, which with DLSS can probably achieve more or less the performance of the Xbox Series S, will certainly be a powerful handheld. And given the chip shortages, there will be a very long cross-gen period. That's to Nintendo's advantage, so there will be no valid excuse for publishers for the lack of third-party support. But there will always be publishers who will ignore Nintendo

The Switch and the Switch Drake are very powerful devices for their time (and price). They can't quite compete with $1000 phones, but that's to be expected
 
CastletonSnob said:
If Nintendo made a powerful console, they'd get the same third party support as Sony and Microsoft, which means more people would buy the console.
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Switch is going to become at the minimum the third best-selling console ever. And consider the success of their handhelds. If anything it’s been proven time and time again that it isn’t power that contributes the most to selling potential.
 
Their next device needs to be more powerful than their competitors' devices while having better battery life and costing less than the Switch. I don't get what's so hard about this for Nintendo.
 
Did you hear that everyone? We, random people strewn about the planet connected only by silicon and light, need to stop making excuses for a 130+ year old multinational corporation. When the excuses stop, I, another random person somewhere on the earth, will get what I want. This will be a good thread whose purpose is not just to be antagonizing for literally no reason whatsoever.
 
They need to make something more powerful, but who actually cares about it being close to PS5? I just want to play first party games at 1080p 60fps, that's not a huge ask.
 
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They don't need to create a "powerful" console, they need to do a "easy to downport demanding games" console. They have tried getting as much as possible third party games with a console as tiny as Switch and that required breaking big barriers with some. They need a technology to keep the form factor small while minimizing those barrier as much as possible.

I feel DLSS could be the answer they're looking for.
 
CastletonSnob said:
"Nintendo's handhelds have always been more successful than their consoles".

Only because Nintendo made stupid decisions with their consoles. If Nintendo used CDs for the N64 and GameCube, they would have done better.
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Seems to me that the "Nintendo fails because they make various stupid decisions" thesis is stronger than the "Nintendo fails because of weak hardware" thesis, since their follow up the GameCube wasn't particularly capable, but it used CDs, and that sold 100+m.
 
CastletonSnob said:
I've heard people make the argument that "Nintendo shouldn't make a powerful console to directly compete with Sony and Microsoft, since the N64 and GameCube, both powerful consoles, failed!"

Here's the thing: The N64 and GameCube didn't fail because they were trying to compete against Sony and Microsoft, they failed because Nintendo made stupid decisions with those consoles, like sticking with cartridges and using mini-DVDs. A Nintendo console on par with the PS5 and Xbox Series X would most likely do very well. Imagine a Nintendo console with amazing first party AND third party games, and having Mario and Zelda in 4k and 60 FPS.
Click to expand...

They don't need to do any of that. The Switch is already selling amazingly. They aren't gonna risk a business model that works just because some people want their expensive electronic toy to have bigger numbers than the other expensive electronic toys.
 
CastletonSnob said:
"Nintendo's handhelds have always been more successful than their consoles".

Only because Nintendo made stupid decisions with their consoles. If Nintendo used CDs for the N64 and GameCube, they would have done better.
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repeating that isn't going to make it true
 
CastletonSnob said:
"Nintendo's handhelds have always been more successful than their consoles".

Only because Nintendo made stupid decisions with their consoles. If Nintendo used CDs for the N64 and GameCube, they would have done better.
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Like an extra million or two; maybe a few extra 3rd party releases? Cause nothing was stopping the PS1 or PS2 from being what they were. Using CDs for either system would have done nothing to stop 3rd parties from either leaving or ignoring Nintendo.
 
Apopheniac said:
Seems to me that the "Nintendo fails because they make various stupid decisions" thesis is stronger than the "Nintendo fails because of weak hardware" thesis, since their follow up the GameCube wasn't particularly capable, but it used CDs, and that sold 100+m.
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One of my 'favourite' 'stupid decisions' was Nintendo dropping the ball with DMA Designs and body harvest.

Body harvest was supposed to be an N64 launch game, touting the power of the system by it's open world on foot and vehicular gameplay, DMA Designs was hoping they could score a second party situation with Nintendo (something similar to what rare ended up with) it's a whirlwind of a story, but basically Noa and noj kept telling dma completely different, often contradicting things had to be in the game, it went into developer hell, missed it's launch date by.... An eternity, and nearly ruined DMA design, who was bounced around the publisher pinball machine, until eventually ending up becoming rockstar games, and turning the code base first established in body harvest, into the basis of gtaiii.

Nintendo screwed the pooch on getting rockstar/GTA exclusivity.
 
OP might be correct, but if Switch 2 comes along and has roughly the power of PS4 or PS4 Pro I'll be really glad to buy it and play it 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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At this point, Nintendo going with and staying with the hybrid model is the best course of action. They fare a little better on the chip shortage because they're not trying to push the envelope as far as power so they get proven components that are easier to manufacture, and the Japanese market loves the Switch and has essentially rejected software for the PS5. Drake should solve their "enough power" issue to keep up with popular middleware so developers can continue to support multiplatform releases.
 
Racalia said:
The upcoming Switch Drake, which with DLSS can probably achieve more or less the performance of the Xbox Series S, will certainly be a powerful handheld.
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Yeah, my answer to the thread title is pretty much "they already are". The leak suggests something in the ballpark of PS4 Pro when docked (from what I've read so far, feel free to correct me) and can punch above its weight with DLSS. I think that's good enough for third-party PS5/XSX ports, since many of those games are still either cross-gen, on PC, or coming to the Series S, so they are targeting less powerful hardware configurations anyway.

I'd rather they make a powerful hybrid console, then a powerful stationary one - as what would happen to their handheld line then? Unless the idea is to have a portable and stationary console with the same architecture but a huge power gap, which seems difficult to develop for.
 
CastletonSnob said:
Nintendo has enough money to lose money for 50 years and still stay in business. They absolutely have enough money to make a powerful console.

Why do Nintendo fans keep making excuses for Nintendo's unwillingness to make a powerful console?
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That’s just… bad business. Sony and MS aren’t gaming companies. Gaming is just part of their portfolio. They sell at a loss to make money from third parties and subscription services. It is another source of revenue for them.

If one day, Sony and MS don’t find it a profitable avenue - they can drop it and still continue on.

Nintendo is a toy company. Their business is hardware and software. Why would they sell at a loss? Especially when they rely on their first party and dev partner studios.
 
I don't know what you're asking for.

Do you want Nintendo to compete on power? I do not want that. If I wanted to play games primarily on the basis of the graphics I wouldn't be playing Nintendo games primarily.
Or do you just want Nintendo to close the power gap? I want this too, and I think that's what Nintendo is going to do, I think that's their current market position
Are you willing to sacrifice the portable console to get to the performance level you want? I am personally never going to buy a non-portable console in my life. I am a grown ass man who lives in a city. There is no room in my life for long periods of TV time that exclude my partner and my housemate, and there is no room in my house for a second TV. I think the success
 
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