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StarTopic Metroid |ST| Praise The Process

Metroid Prime 4 in the June 2024 Nintendo Direct?

  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
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ColdGoldLazarus said:
I also hope they're not secretly Samus's long-lost brother (or a not-so-dead Ian Malcovitch, for that matter) or a future bad-timeline version of her or whatever. The first is boring and hackneyed, and I just don't want them to turn out to be some bland human dudeguy. (Plus, IMO the "Luke I am your father" thing only barely worked with Raven Beak, and even then mostly because Samus didn't respond like Luke, she answered with a resounding "fuck you" delivered via super missiles and eye gouging. I don't think anything in that vein would work at all another time around.) And the second, while actually potentially kinda interesting, is still kinda hackneyed, and we've already kinda been there done that with SA-X and Dark Samus anyway.
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I'll admit, and I guess this will double as my "hot take": The main reason I could go for Sylux being some long lost familial relationship of Samus (or even a childhood friend who wasn't as lucky to be scooped up by kindly space bird dads after the colony massacre), is because I think the main means that will endear Sylux to us is for the same reason almost all of Samus's antagonistic rivalries have functioned thus far: It has to involve a) a personal bond to Samus and b) they have to be a "dark reflection" of sorts to Samus, herself.

Even with Ridley, I would say the dark reflection trope applies, because his relationship with Samus is one founded on mutual hatred, yet they're also the most important person in each other's lives. You can even say they're both respected and feared as "gods of death". Of course, the galaxy is only big enough for one!

So, getting back to Sylux. What little we know about the so-n-so is that they are a fellow Bounty Hunter (like Samus!), hates the Federation (who Samus works for!), and their current armaments are stolen Federation tech (which are heavily based off of Samus's own tech!). They also got a hankering for stalking Samus for some weird reason, while also nabbing Metroids (because, again, they are a Hunter, too!). That's all fine and good, and helps lay the foundation for the "dark reflection" part of the trope. But it still begs the question of "why should we care"? On paper, even Weavel has a bit more going on, because at least he's a Space Pirate that Samus didn't "quite" unalive good enough, and he wants payback for that.

My answer was always that Sylux could and should be someone from Samus's past as an innocent girl on K-2L. Up to now, we can say that Samus has had an array of ties pertaining to the Chozo, the Federation, and to the Space Pirates. But nothing that really goes back to K-2L, and the before Ridley gave Samus the worst day of her life. A human adversary that went through the same hell that Samus did, but didn't get the same bright spots that Samus got, would have a lot of poignant reasons to hate the Federation (for failing to save the colony), and resent Samus for siding with the Federation, despite their failings.

After that, it's just a matter of properly building up the chemistry so that Sylux and Samus, and perhaps giving Samus the ongoing rival she desperately needs to keep her on her toes in a sustainable way. In other words...as I believe I said before: Samus desperately needs her own "Vergil".
 
SpaceGodzilla said:
the best part about growing up is realizing, is no you don't actually "have to respect everyone's opinions" just don't be rude about how wrong they are
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I need to learn this power. Other than rare occasions I have a hard time posting things without half a dozen “IMO”, “this was still good but…”, “to me personally, at least”, etc. qualifiers, lol

But yes Raven Beak rules, and I’ll go so far as to say he’s the best boss in the series in a game full of the best bosses.

Actually I’ll try out one of these “hot take” things and say: Metroid bosses in general aren’t usually all that great and often are just damage races without much finesse of any kind. Dread has the best bosses and got them so right because it gave you the movement tools to actually have good combat, and then focused on making you actually use those tools to learn boss patterns and dodge and parry.
 
Sort of a hot take but sort of just thinking aloud; I genuinely go back and forth on how I feel about Super. Most of the time I have to begrudingly respect Super Metroid for the depth of detail and immersion it achieves, setting in stone the mechanical ideas NES Metroid was playing with, and telling an affecting wordless story. I may find the fans of Super and Super only kind of annoying, and dread grappling with the bad controls, but I try not to let that impact my opinion of the game.

Other times I feel like it's the Rise Of Skywalker of the series; a shallow rehash of the first installment that undermines the second, and set a bad precedent going forward for recycling everything under the sun. It has a bland desaturated aesthetic that genuinely hurts my eyes to look at too long and I hate besides, has nothing of real narrative substance beyond just vibes for 90% of the runtime outside of the beginning and ending, and the use of revealable symbols to signpost interactable blocks is a jarring and immersion-breaking choice that I wish hadn't carried forward over more subtle environmental hints. Also the controls are bad, and the Super diehards who insist the series has been downhill ever since are obnoxious.

It's almost a weight around the series' neck in my eyes, and Metroid games since have been at their weakest narratively when they're just trying to do what Super did again because Super did it. (Example; the baby was one thing, the SA-X another, but Adam was a bridge too far even outside of the unique awfulness of OM, and QR-X is just getting silly now.) I wish it hadn't established that precedent of repetition in the first place, and sometimes wonder what the series would look like now without it. When I finish it in full, I expect to concede that it is a good game and I enjoyed it, but I'm probably going to be extremely annoyed regardless.

Then I remember that its trajectory still did set up for the subsequent excellence in Fusion, and also had the whole thing with the animals to make up for the ending, and most things are forgiven again. Mostly.
 
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Some lukewarm takes:

I do love the Raven Beak fight, but Z-57 is my favorite in Dread. I just love the spectacle of it. It has by far the most badass parry counter scene, as well as the scene upon defeating him. Also love the flappy bird sequence.

I don't think it's so clear cut that Dread has the best collection of bosses in the series. I think Primes 2 & 3, Fusion, and Other M all have a great collection of bosses as well.
 
SammyJ9 said:
Actually I’ll try out one of these “hot take” things and say: Metroid bosses in general aren’t usually all that great and often are just damage races without much finesse of any kind. Dread has the best bosses and got them so right because it gave you the movement tools to actually have good combat, and then focused on making you actually use those tools to learn boss patterns and dodge and parry.
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Dread's bosses are definitely the best mechanically, but it kind of bothers me how much people downplay or maybe forget how great the bosses are in the GBA games. Outside of maybe a few throw away bosses in each game, Fusion and Zero Mission already laid a lot of the groundwork for how to make great bosses in Metroid games. Zero Mission at least I can concede that even its best bosses are just kind of a race to see who drops HP first, but Fusion is a rapid fire action game where you need constant precision to hit enemies weakpoints and dodge their attacks ..... it's philosophy isn't actually that different at all from Dread's, and it did it with a less complicated more natural controls scheme

Maybe it's because I got into the 2D series right before Dread was announced, so I had played the games much more recently when Dread came out, but in general that's how I feel about a lot of the praise for Dread, it's definitely earned and it's taken Metroid from some of the best action you can get in a sidescroller to arguably the best action you can get in a sidescroller period, but so much of the foundation of the smoothness of controls and incredibly well done bossfights were already in previous games and people just seem to forget that (I'll also say not all race to 0 boss fights are poorly made either, Super's Ridley being the prime example).
 
SammyJ9 said:
Actually I’ll try out one of these “hot take” things and say: Metroid bosses in general aren’t usually all that great and often are just damage races without much finesse of any kind. Dread has the best bosses and got them so right because it gave you the movement tools to actually have good combat, and then focused on making you actually use those tools to learn boss patterns and dodge and parry.
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They're often not even damage races. Most of them are "wait for the weak point to open up, get off a few shots, repeat". Fusion feels especially guilty of this, every Core X and many of the other bosses limit how many times you can even hit them per cycle. The thing I love about AM2R's Metroid fights is that they require aiming and moving constantly to avoid their attacks and position yourself to shoot at them, they don't hold your hand and that goes both ways: you can fight at your own pace and utterly obliterate them if you've mastered the game, you don't have to wait for your shot like against Serris or Phantoon; but your own skill really matters when the enemy isn't going to just give you a clean shot themselves.
 
WonderLuigi said:
AngryAlchemist did the alchemy thing. He cooked. Samus opening her mouth is just NO
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I'm honestly super curious to know what people's problems with her Fusion characterization are, or if these feelings are born of a "tainted by association" mindset, thanks to Other M's existence.

Fusion was my introduction to Samus (and the Metroid universe as a whole), and I thought it depicted her as an exceptionally well-rounded character. The game opens with her severely weakend from a traumatic event, yet she endures. She feels fear, yet doesn't allow it to freeze her in place. She's a highly skilled professional, yet her humanity is at the forefront, with her connection to an old friend driving her forward. This is also obviously emphasized through the baby's DNA saving her life yet again, and the animals she saved back on Zebes being the only other living ray of hope aboard an otherwise doomed station. Samus's compassion and prior good deeds are always at the forefront in this game. She's not just a badass machine who never talks, and I really like that.

Considering Fusion is a handheld entry in a series where story had previously been hardly a factor, I think it doesn't get the credit it deserves. Samus being willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good (the total eradication of the X) made an impression on me, as it was one of my earliest exposures to such a selfless, heroic gaming protag. She's still my favorite fictional character ever, and that's attributable to Fusion in larger part than any other game in the series.

Disclaimer: My love for the way Fusion handles it doesn't mean it can't also be done well even in the absence of dialogue. Best example of this is the Echoes ending, in which Samus has just saved a species from extinction and walks away with a simple gesture, as if to say "You don't owe me anything, this is just what I do." That moment from Dread is also momentous as the perfect example of only having Samus talk when it would be most impactful. She had a single voiced line, and it became one of the greatest, most memorable moments in the series.
 
Aurc said:
I'm honestly super curious to know what people's problems with her Fusion characterization are, or if these feelings are born of a "tainted by association" mindset, thanks to Other M's existence.

Fusion was my introduction to Samus (and the Metroid universe as a whole), and I thought it depicted her as an exceptionally well-rounded character. The game opens with her severely weakend from a traumatic event, yet she endures. She feels fear, yet doesn't allow it to freeze her in place. She's a highly skilled professional, yet her humanity is at the forefront, with her connection to an old friend driving her forward. This is also obviously emphasized through the baby's DNA saving her life yet again, and the animals she saved back on Zebes being the only other living ray of hope aboard an otherwise doomed station. Samus's compassion and prior good deeds are always at the forefront in this game. She's not just a badass machine who never talks, and I really like that.

Considering Fusion is a handheld entry in a series where story had previously been hardly a factor, I think it doesn't get the credit it deserves. Samus being willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good (the total eradication of the X) made an impression on me, as it was one of my earliest exposures to such a selfless, heroic gaming protag. She's still my favorite fictional character ever, and that's attributable to Fusion in larger part than any other game in the series.

Disclaimer: My love for the way Fusion handles it doesn't mean it can't also be done well even in the absence of dialogue. Best example of this is the Echoes ending, in which Samus has just saved a species from extinction and walks away with a simple gesture, as if to say "You don't owe me anything, this is just what I do." That moment from Dread is also momentous as the perfect example of only having Samus talk when it would be most impactful. She had a single voiced line, and it became one of the greatest, most memorable moments in the series.
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Fusion does so much heavy lifting for Samus as a character.
 
Looking at the Beam Troopers in the Prime Remastered character gallery a little too hard spurred a thought. Not sure if it's a good one or incredibly cursed, though...

Metroid Prime: Federation Force 2
Or rather,
Metroid Prime: Pirate Force
 
Thinking about abusing a bit of power and rallying up the Metroid fans in here to raid the Donkey Kong ST. We should take them out now, or they'll aim to destroy us in the event Prime 4 gets cancelled in favor of a third Retro developed Donkey Kong game. We wouldn't survive the humiliation of such a thing, so I say we act preemptively. I won't have the ape people laughing in my face.
 
Aurc said:
Thinking about abusing a bit of power and rallying up the Metroid fans in here to raid the Donkey Kong ST. We should take them out now, or they'll aim to destroy us in the event Prime 4 gets cancelled in favor of a third Retro developed Donkey Kong game. We wouldn't survive the humiliation of such a thing, so I say we act preemptively. I won't have the ape people laughing in my face.
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Nintendo suddenly revealing a third Retro Studios Donkey Kong at the next Direct with zero mention of Metroid Prime 4 would be objectively the funniest outcome
 
Aurc said:
Thinking about abusing a bit of power and rallying up the Metroid fans in here to raid the Donkey Kong ST. We should take them out now, or they'll aim to destroy us in the event Prime 4 gets cancelled in favor of a third Retro developed Donkey Kong game. We wouldn't survive the humiliation of such a thing, so I say we act preemptively. I won't have the ape people laughing in my face.
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Aurc please, this is the fabled Direct where we get both Metroid and Donkey Kong and thus the more than decade long feud can finally end. Don’t call for blood in the last month before peace reigns!
 
WonderLuigi said:
I'd be the "FUCKING DONKEY KONG?" obligatory post
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The Metroid fandom would enter a new dark age of toxicity, and the collective Fami malding would be legendary. Riots in the streets as The Process is assassinated.

Screenshot-20240524-011153.png

xghost777 said:
Aurc please, this is the fabled Direct where we get both Metroid and Donkey Kong and thus the more than decade long feud can finally end. Don’t call for blood in the last month before peace reigns!
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Just thought I'd mix things up a bit before the June Direct, y'know? 😄 I'm not serious about invading the Planet of the Apes! ...Yet 😈

I don't know if it's sunk in for anyone yet, but this could be a transitional period for us devout adherents. There will one day come a time when Trust The Process becomes Praise The Process.
 
chocolate_supra said:
what good would it do to put Famiboards in the microwave tho
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There viral videos about what happens when stuff is out on microwaves. A webforum would be a completely new thing, maybe it can generate views?

Btw: Nintendo I wanted to try Zero mission, could you put it on NSO? Thanks byee
 
Aurc said:
Thinking about abusing a bit of power and rallying up the Metroid fans in here to raid the Donkey Kong ST. We should take them out now, or they'll aim to destroy us in the event Prime 4 gets cancelled in favor of a third Retro developed Donkey Kong game. We wouldn't survive the humiliation of such a thing, so I say we act preemptively. I won't have the ape people laughing in my face.
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Don't think I didn't see this
 
Metroid II is awesome and more people should play it. It’s super accessible now with NSO which has color options, save states, and rewind all right there. Download a map on the internet if you need to for reference. There’s some good ones out there. My last playthrough was less than three hours so it’s not much of a commitment and yeah the game is great fun and has some very cool power ups like the Spider Ball.
 
Giancarlo said:
uh no? Metroid(Metroid 1), Metroid 2 Return of Samus(Metroid 2), Super Metroid(Metroid 3), Metroid Fusion(Metroid 4) and Metroid Dread(Metroid 5).
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the joke was that a lot of people started with Super Metroid and for a while tended to disregard the games that came before it, similar to how (at least in the west) hardly anyone had heard of Persona until P3
 
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My first Metroid game was Super Metroid and after beating it I immediately went back and played 1 and 2. Maybe nowadays people who started with Super wouldn't be motivated to do that, but I was, since those were the only other Metroid games at the time because I'm an old.
 
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