StarTopic Metroid |ST| Praise The Process

[Yamanoi]

You are not supposed to be immersed in Dread, it doesn't have a big wide bland empty open world, that is the feature they're adding to Prime 4

Metroid Prime 4 doesn't exist in any reality and is just something the hardware thread made up.

PS3

 

[Mekanos]

Love this theme from Fusion. It manages to sound both haunting and peaceful.

 

[Aurc]

Metroid has consistently good music but I can't blame people if they don't think it has consistently great OSTs, there's only like a few really good songs in most Metroid games (or almost none: see Dread and Samus Returns!)

For me Super and Prime are some of the best gaming OSTs of all time, with Prime being the best in the series, and Prime 2 is close to those. The rest are good but definitely weaker.

Feels to me like we're seriously failing to give Hip Tanaka nearly enough credit. He was the one who established what Metroid sounds like in the first place, and I rarely see Fami peeps even mention his name, let alone give him his due props. I know Kenji Yamamoto's compositions are often what come to mind first for many (and I get it, Super and Prime both have stellar OSTs), but Tanaka is responsible for originating a bunch of the iconic motifs that are inseparable from the series as a whole.

Main Theme
Samus Appears
Item Discovery
Brinstar
Escape Theme
Credits Theme

Like, this is straight-up amazing stuff. The main theme and the credits theme in particular are just brilliant. The former's initial six note motif is ominous and intriguing, while the rest of the melody conveys the grandeur of embarking on a planetary adventure. As for the latter, it's just about the most joyous and triumphant thing you could possibly wanna hear upon successful completion of your mission.

But imo, Tanaka's Metroid masterpiece is none other than...

 

[big lantern ghost]

Who could forget this classic Metroid jam?

 

[Yamanoi]

Beep boop beep boop.

 

[Rampo360]

You are not supposed to be immersed in Dread, it doesn't have a big wide bland empty open world, that is the feature they're adding to Prime 4

I was actually 100% immersed in Dread, the game convinced me that I was vulnerable and I had to survive to reach my ship. The world design maybe wasn't as complex as Super Metroid but the atmosphere was there. I loved every minute.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

Feels to me like we're seriously failing to give Hip Tanaka nearly enough credit. He was the one who established what Metroid sounds like in the first place, and I rarely see Fami peeps even mention his name, let alone give him his due props. I know Kenji Yamamoto's compositions are often what come to mind first for many (and I get it, Super and Prime both have stellar OSTs), but Tanaka is responsible for originating a bunch of the iconic motifs that are inseparable from the series as a whole.

Main Theme
Samus Appears
Item Discovery
Brinstar
Escape Theme
Credits Theme

Like, this is straight-up amazing stuff. The main theme and the credits theme in particular are just brilliant. The former's initial six note motif is ominous and intriguing, while the rest of the melody conveys the grandeur of embarking on a planetary adventure. As for the latter, it's just about the most joyous and triumphant thing you could possibly wanna hear upon successful completion of your mission.

But imo, Tanaka's Metroid masterpiece is none other than...

This would require people to play Metroid 1

I agree Kraid's Hideout is probably one of the game songs I think about the most, I just don't really have an opinion on Metroid 1

I was actually 100% immersed in Dread, the game convinced me that I was vulnerable and I had to survive to reach my ship. The world design maybe wasn't as complex as Super Metroid but the atmosphere was there. I loved every minute.

I heard neither one piano jingle nor wind chime, so sadly I was not able to immerse myself in the Metroid Dread experience. It was a pretty good Ghost N' Gobins-like, though.

 

[Joe]

I've thought of the Metroid item fanfare every day of my life for well over 20 years at this point.

 

[Stilt Village]

Feels to me like we're seriously failing to give Hip Tanaka nearly enough credit. He was the one who established what Metroid sounds like in the first place, and I rarely see Fami peeps even mention his name, let alone give him his due props. I know Kenji Yamamoto's compositions are often what come to mind first for many (and I get it, Super and Prime both have stellar OSTs), but Tanaka is responsible for originating a bunch of the iconic motifs that are inseparable from the series as a whole.

Main Theme
Samus Appears
Item Discovery
Brinstar
Escape Theme
Credits Theme

Like, this is straight-up amazing stuff. The main theme and the credits theme in particular are just brilliant. The former's initial six note motif is ominous and intriguing, while the rest of the melody conveys the grandeur of embarking on a planetary adventure. As for the latter, it's just about the most joyous and triumphant thing you could possibly wanna hear upon successful completion of your mission.

But imo, Tanaka's Metroid masterpiece is none other than...

Hot Take: Kenji Yamamoto never really surpassed Hirokazu Tanaka. He has the obvious technological advantage, and eventually developed beyond just copying the style Tanaka established for Metroid, but his compositions feel static and repetitive in comparison. The first game's soundtrack still has a certain something that later entries lack, a darkness and desperation that outweighs the ambient side of the sound. Norfair has its weird-ass time signature, Kraid's Lair is one of those 8-bit chiptunes that hits on almost baroque qualities. Later Metroid games are extremely reliant on timbre. You can really see from these two straightforward piano arrangements how despite requiring two people to play and being probably the most energetic and active theme from Super Metroid, Green Brinstar is a lot less changing and repeats the same parts a lot more than Kraid's Lair.

AM2R's soundtrack is funny because like, it's really not particularly amazing. It's not super polished or professional, it sounds like a bunch of fan covers loosely recreating the style of Prime that you might find on YouTube, because that's basically what it is. But compared to the other versions of the game, that is actually fantastic. And to be fair, it's genuinely cool to hear a remix from Echoes, or have the game's original ruins theme set to the beat of Chozo Ruins. There's a lot of neat recontextualization of things, and it's quite thoughtfully put together.

Sonic music is weirdly the one thing that's consistently awesome throughout the series even when the "game" part of the games fall off a cliff.

Sonic Chronicles has entered the chat

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

Metroid has consistently good music but I can't blame people if they don't think it has consistently great OSTs, there's only like a few really good songs in most Metroid games (or almost none: see Dread and Samus Returns!)

hey Samus Returns has some bangers (although they all remixes) Dread on the other hand..... yeah Soshi Abe and Sayako Doi have been pretty poor replacements for Koichi Kyuma and Kenji Yamamoto so far

 

[Joe]

hey Samus Returns has some bangers (although they all remixes)

My favorite song in Samus Returns (and probably in my top 20 favorite Metroid songs ever) isn't a remix!



Well, okay, it does have a reference to an established Metroid song but it's mostly original.

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

 

[HockeyBird]

Think I'll try to wrap up Metroid Prime HD in the next few weeks now that I finished with Mario Wonder. It got caught in the middle of the early 2023 releases last year and I didn't end up finishing before TOTK was released. If I finish the game before June, I can be ready to hop into Metroid Prime 2 and 3 if they ever get announced.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

There's a lot of great music across the series, but it always confuses me that the Metroid Prime menu theme seems to overshadow the actual title theme for most people. It has the main six-note lietmotif in there, but it is still an overall original composition that I wish got more attention, and pretty much sums up the series perfectly.



But maybe I'm just biased since that song was what got me into the games in the first place ^^;

Both the title and menu music are ace, but my favorite is actually the end credits track, which elaborates upon the menu theme:

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

There's a lot of great music across the series, but it always confuses me that the Metroid Prime menu theme seems to overshadow the actual title theme for most people. It has the main six-note lietmotif in there, but it is still an overall original composition that I wish got more attention, and pretty much sums up the series perfectly.



But maybe I'm just biased since that song was what got me into the games in the first place ^^;

Tbh prime 1 is in my top 3 games ever and I didn't even know this song existed till they used it for the prime 4 reveal

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

Prime 2 best theme thought

 

[ColdGoldLazarus]

AM2R's soundtrack is funny because like, it's really not particularly amazing. It's not super polished or professional, it sounds like a bunch of fan covers loosely recreating the style of Prime that you might find on YouTube, because that's basically what it is. But compared to the other versions of the game, that is actually fantastic.

This is something I see bandied about a lot, that AM2R's tracks are very "Prime styled" but honestly I don't see (hear?) the comparison. I like what they're doing, but listening to a Prime track and an AM2R track back-to-back, they have pretty distinct vibes to me. AM2R's music is very obviously music, heavy on the melody, and with a pretty laid-back and surprisingly light tone outside of specific tracks for moments of tension. And the sound texture has the sort of HD-false-nostalgia, not chiptune but chiptune adjacent/inspired feel I hear in a few modern indies, especially with the remixes of the Metroid encounter theme. It has a very breezy and obviously-music quality to it, where the Prime OST sounds more overtly alien or ambient, blending diagetic and non-diagetic elements.

Where I will say AM2R's soundtrack is a letdown for me, is that they opted to replace the original ambience of Areas 2-5 with different tracks. People give Samus Returns crap for wholesale importing Magmoor Caverns and Red Brinstar for the thousandth time, and I do to, but I also appreciate that it gave us new renditions of those original Caverns tracks as well:







Also if anything I get a bit more Prime vibes in some of these, especially the last one using a similar sort of metallic creak/groan/gong/thing as Corruption's title theme.

On the other hand, I think AM2R did a better job in adapting the Omega Gauntlet track and onward, so it's a bit of a tradeoff.

/soapbox

My favorite song in Samus Returns (and probably in my top 20 favorite Metroid songs ever)

Despite my mixed feelings on its tonal presence, (part of my broader issues with SR's handling of the last act, really) taken on its own merits this has to be one of my favorites, and I really hope whoever made it is given another chance to make music for this series. Up there with Phendrana Depths for the groovy, hype side of the Metroid soundscape.

Prime 2 best theme thought

Heck yeah, that's also a good one!

Anyway apologies for the rambling, I just have Opinions on this series' music and also the Metroid II trilogy

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

i'm required by internet law not to give my AM2R opinions

 

[HockeyBird]

Still the GOAT Metroid song



I actually like listening to the Samus Returns version just on its own more but in game, I think the Super version just sets the mood better. The pulsating beat that plays throughout combined with the "low-res" quality scratchiness makes it feel more foreboding.

 

[ColdGoldLazarus]

i'm required by internet law not to give my AM2R opinions

I have to admit that I'm curious now.

For the record, since we're already here... My cold take is that Samus Returns spectacularly missed the point with the ending, and Ridley being shoehorned in pointlessly (and no I do not care how good of a boss fight it apparently is) is just the pinnacle of that. Not an unpopular opinion, but still. But my hot take is that while AM2R did the ending better, it still suffers overall from a design approach of trying to forcibly jam Metroid II into Super/Zero Mission's mold, instead of improving on it on its own merits.

I loved AM2R as a game, and I'm glad it was my introduction to the 2D entries, but I still think it could have done better as an adaptation. Similarly, not gonna hold my many complaints about Samus Returns' thematic handling against it too much when I actually get to play it.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Honestly the only games in the series that have less than stellar OST's are Dread and Other M, and even they have some great moments of ambience and melody, though certainly nothing too memorable, outside of the Ridley theme in Other M which absolutely RIPS. I can't remember much about Hunters' OST other than the awesome menu theme, and I remember nothing from FF. Those are the two weakest games in the series though (They need to try harder with the spinoff games!)

As a big fan of ambient/industrial music, I'm a huge fan of the Metroid II trilogy's soundtracks. The original leans hardest into it with several tracks of pure noise that is brilliant in creating a tense atmosphere. AM2R is far more melodic, and really feels and sounds like it's just trying to be Zero Mission 2 (which isn't a bad thing). And then Samus Returns is sort of a middle ground between the two.

 

[Aurc]

Me posting that tweet about the Metroid fanbase led to a surge of activity in here, so maybe I'll post another controversial tweet sometime in the future Never underestimate the power of giving everyone a chance to correct the record in response to a post that doesn't paint the full picture.

i'm required by internet law not to give my AM2R opinions

Anything short of heaping praise upon it is simply a bad and wrong opinion to me /s

Really though, I do prefer it to MercurySteam's remake. The gameplay is faster paced (being based on Zero Mission), the music is great, and the boss design / variety is wider than both the original and the official remake. It also has lore cohesion with the Prime games.

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

I have to admit that I'm curious now.

For the record, since we're already here... My cold take is that Samus Returns spectacularly missed the point with the ending, and Ridley being shoehorned in pointlessly (and no I do not care how good of a boss fight it apparently is) is just the pinnacle of that. Not an unpopular opinion, but still. But my hot take is that while AM2R did the ending better, it still suffers overall from a design approach of trying to forcibly jam Metroid II into Super/Zero Mission's mold, instead of improving on it on its own merits.

I loved AM2R as a game, and I'm glad it was my introduction to the 2D games, but I still think it could have done better as an adaptation.

my 2 opinions that I'll give is

AM2R is a good fan game for Metroid fans

all the Chozo robots and boss fights suck shit

 

[Aurc]

I remember nothing from FF

I haven't played it, but I've listened to bits and pieces of its OST, and it's uh... pretty cheapo / poopswaine sounding. The one reaction I could muster is a rather mid "Oh, neat" upon realizing the Space Pirate theme is still alive and well. Eager to hear MP4's version.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Me posting that tweet about the Metroid fanbase led to a surge of activity in here, so maybe I'll post another controversial tweet sometime in the future Never underestimate the power of giving everyone a chance to correct the record in response to a post that doesn't paint the full picture.

Anything short of heaping praise upon it is simply a bad and wrong opinion to me /s

Really though, I do prefer it to MercurySteam's remake. The gameplay is faster paced (being based on Zero Mission), the music is great, and the boss design / variety is wider than both the original and the official remake. It also has lore cohesion with the Prime games.

I really liked how in AM2R each area had a unique boss fight. It did a lot for the pacing and made each area feel unique. The actual Metroid fights are almost as bad as in the OG game though. SR is the only of the three that makes the Metroid fights fun. Though they do get very repetitive for how many alpha and gamma metroids you have to fight.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I haven't played it, but I've listened to bits and pieces of its OST, and it's uh... pretty cheapo / poopswaine sounding. The one reaction I could muster is a rather mid "Oh, neat" upon realizing the Space Pirate theme is still alive and well. Eager to hear MP4's version.

Ugh. That Space Pirate theme is poopswaine indeed. FF was such a missed opportunity. The basic concept of the ongoing war between the Pirates and the Federation has so much potential, and NLG is a very talented developer, yet they shat out a wet turd with it unfortunately .

 

[Aurc]

all the Chozo robots and boss fights suck shit

Even this GOAT? Second phase is rad, and those Chykka remixes I think AM2R and Dread are two of the only Metroid games where the bosses have some real bite, especially on higher difficulties.

Ugh. That Space Pirate theme is poopswaine indeed. FF was such a missed opportunity. The basic concept of the ongoing war between the Pirates and the Federation has so much potential, and NLG is a very talented developer, yet they shat out a wet turd with it unfortunately .

Keep preaching We could've had Star Wars: The Clone Wars in the Metroid universe, and we got Lego Duplo chibi shovelware instead. Poop. Swaine.

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

Me posting that tweet about the Metroid fanbase led to a surge of activity in here, so maybe I'll post another controversial tweet sometime in the future

oh you want controversial Metroid opinions? ok here we go

the prime games are in fact better than all the 2D ones

Super Metroid has aged for the worse and fusion, zero mission, and dread are much easier recommendations for someone starting the series

the ending to the original Metroid 2 ending is not as impactful as some hardcore fans think it is

Samus Returns and other M Ridley are the only objectively good Ridley fights in the franchise

the X parasites suck

Raven Beak is a better direction than the Samsu vs Galactic federation that fans built up for years because of a mistranslation

Zero Suit Samus is not as bad as people here make it out to be

unless it's some scripted fight a kraid fight in 3D would probably suck

SA-X stops being cool on repeat playthroughs

Prime 4 is going to be a much larger departure from the original trilogy than some fans expect and it's going to turn them off from it

rundus's death has more emotional impact than the baby in super

Dread only has like three memorable area's

AM2R is only talked about because of when it released and Nintendo taking down the game, not for its actual quality

 

[AngryAlchemist]

Samus Returns and other M Ridley are the only objectively good Ridley fights in the franchise

the X parasites suck

Actually bad takes

Super Metroid Ridley is clearly the best fight

 

[Metroid]

oh you want controversial Metroid opinions? ok here we go

the prime games are in fact better than all the 2D ones

Super Metroid has aged for the worse and fusion, zero mission, and dread are much easier recommendations for someone starting the series

the ending to the original Metroid 2 ending is not as impactful as some hardcore fans think it is

Samus Returns and other M Ridley are the only objectively good Ridley fights in the franchise

the X parasites suck

Raven Beak is a better direction than the Samsu vs Galactic federation that fans built up for years because of a mistranslation

Zero Suit Samus is not as bad as people here make it out to be

unless it's some scripted fight a kraid fight in 3D would probably suck

SA-X stops being cool on repeat playthroughs

Prime 4 is going to be a much larger departure from the original trilogy than some fans expect and it's going to turn them off from it

rundus's death has more emotional impact than the baby in super

Dread only has like three memorable area's

AM2R is only talked about because of when it released and Nintendo taking down the game, not for its actual quality

5/13 that I kinda agree with. 8/13 I cannot believe you believe

 

[chocolate_supra]

oh you want controversial Metroid opinions? ok here we go

the prime games are in fact better than all the 2D ones

Super Metroid has aged for the worse and fusion, zero mission, and dread are much easier recommendations for someone starting the series

the ending to the original Metroid 2 ending is not as impactful as some hardcore fans think it is

Samus Returns and other M Ridley are the only objectively good Ridley fights in the franchise

the X parasites suck

Raven Beak is a better direction than the Samsu vs Galactic federation that fans built up for years because of a mistranslation

Zero Suit Samus is not as bad as people here make it out to be

unless it's some scripted fight a kraid fight in 3D would probably suck

SA-X stops being cool on repeat playthroughs

Prime 4 is going to be a much larger departure from the original trilogy than some fans expect and it's going to turn them off from it

rundus's death has more emotional impact than the baby in super

Dread only has like three memorable area's

AM2R is only talked about because of when it released and Nintendo taking down the game, not for its actual quality

 

[ColdGoldLazarus]

On a completely different note, I think what I'm most interested in about MP4 is Sylux. They're a complete mystery box character, but there have been comments by people from the Hunters team indicating that unlike the approach of a certain movie director, there is actually an intended answer underneath that. They've gotten buildup in Corruption and Fed Force, too, so while there's not much to get attached to right now, I really hope that they live up to the hype.

I also hope they're not secretly Samus's long-lost brother (or a not-so-dead Ian Malcovitch, for that matter) or a future bad-timeline version of her or whatever. The first is boring and hackneyed, and I just don't want them to turn out to be some bland human dudeguy. (Plus, IMO the "Luke I am your father" thing only barely worked with Raven Beak, and even then mostly because Samus didn't respond like Luke, she answered with a resounding "fuck you" delivered via super missiles and eye gouging. I don't think anything in that vein would work at all another time around.) And the second, while actually potentially kinda interesting, is still kinda hackneyed, and we've already kinda been there done that with SA-X and Dark Samus anyway.

Think it would be a lot better (and keep the universe vast) if they are in fact a total stranger to her, and whatever the secret to their identity is, is something more unique and interesting, and their grudge against her is indeed more of an idealogical one related to her work with the Federation. Instead of being directly connected to her in some way, making them a thematic foil to her (especially with that Metroid they took in Fed Force potentially mirroring The Baby™, hope there becomes a genuine connection there instead of just a repeat of the Space Pirates) with an interesting and sympathetic motivation. That could be really compelling.

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

On a completely different note, I think what I'm most interested in about MP4 is Sylux. They're a complete mystery box character, but there have been comments by people from the Hunters team indicating that unlike the approach of a certain movie director, there is actually an intended answer underneath that. They've gotten buildup in Corruption and Fed Force, too. There's not much to get attached to right now, but I really hope that they live up to the hype.

I also hope they're not secretly Samus's long-lost brother (or a not-so-dead Ian Malcovitch, for that matter) or a future bad-timeline version of her or whatever. The first is boring and hackneyed, and I just don't want them to turn out to be some bland human dudeguy. (Plus, IMO the "Luke I am your father" thing only barely worked with Raven Beak, and even then mostly because Samus didn't respond like Luke, she answered with a resounding "fuck you" delivered via super missiles and eye gouging. I don't think anything in that vein would work at all another time around.) And the second, while actually potentially kinda interesting, is still kinda hackneyed, and we've already kinda been there done that with SA-X and Dark Samus anyway.

Think it would be a lot more interesting (and keep the universe vast) if they are in fact a total stranger to her, and whatever the secret to their identity is, is something more unique and compelling, and their grudge against her is indeed more of an idealogical one related to her work with the Federation. Instead of being directly connected to her in some way, making them a thematic foil to her (especially with that Metroid they took in Fed Force potentially mirroring The Baby™, hope there becomes a genuine connection there instead of just a repeat of the Space Pirates) with an interesting and sympathetic motivation could be really compelling.

actually, my fan theory is that Sylux is a failed Samus or human Chozo hybrid clone made by the federation in an attempt to make super soldiers but went rogue

 

[Aurc]

Absolute bombs being dropped in here now. Guess I'll respond to each individual take, just for funsies.

Spoiler

the prime games are in fact better than all the 2D ones

I don't think they're better, just strong in different ways. I like them roughly the same as the 2D entries.

Super Metroid has aged for the worse and fusion, zero mission, and dread are much easier recommendations for someone starting the series

I agree that those all make for easier starting points for newcomers, but I also think Super is still worth playing as someone's first Metroid game, as long as they're forewarned about the fact that it contains elements modern players would consider dated.

the ending to the original Metroid 2 ending is not as impactful as some hardcore fans think it is

Hmm. I've never finished the original Metroid 2, but I thought AM2R's faithful recreation was better than the lore bastardizing Samus Returns version (even if Proteus Ridley is a damn good fight). I love the direction of the original ending. Samus and the baby taking a nonviolent trip back to the ship is more impactful to me than a shoehorned in fanservice Ridley fight.

Samus Returns and other M Ridley are the only objectively good Ridley fights in the franchise

I don't even remember what the Other M fight was like (I've only played through the game once), but I guess I'll trust your word that it's good? I like all the Ridley fights, personally.

the X parasites suck

Raven Beak is a better direction than the Samsu vs Galactic federation that fans built up for years because of a mistranslation

I like Raven Beak, but he's ultimately an asspull dude that they retroactively made not only one of Samus's bird dads, but also the whole reason SR388 wasn't destroyed when it should've been, leading to the events of the entire series. I would've much preferred a story about the Galactic Federation against Samus, and Dread's story consisting of her hiding out on a planet and being hunted.

Zero Suit Samus is not as bad as people here make it out to be

Hard to tell what "as bad" means, but I think it's a wack design they could've done a better job with. Skintight blue suit is corny.

unless it's some scripted fight a kraid fight in 3D would probably suck

Flat disagree. I believe in Retro!

SA-X stops being cool on repeat playthroughs

Fair. Each SA-X encounter is a completely scripted event, after all.

Prime 4 is going to be a much larger departure from the original trilogy than some fans expect and it's going to turn them off from it

As long as it shapes up to be a phenomenal game, I hope I'm open to whatever form it takes.

rundus's death has more emotional impact than the baby in super

Bro c'mon lol And you even spelled the poor guy's name wrong. RIP

Dread only has like three memorable area's

Agree. I reckon few would call Dread's environmental design compelling.

AM2R is only talked about because of when it released and Nintendo taking down the game, not for its actual quality

Wild. I genuinely think it's better than the official remake

 

[ColdGoldLazarus]

oh you want controversial Metroid opinions? ok here we go

I agree, I strongly agree, and I vehemently disagree. I have no strong feelings on this one because I just don't care about Ridley in general, but you're probably right despite the unfortunate narrative context dragging them down.

I mildly disagree but see where you're coming from, and I mildly agree but still wanna see the latter followed up on at some point as well. And I think it's mostly fine in canon, but hate that Smash spread awareness of it to the unwashed masses non-fan gamer bros who don't respect her and won't behave themselves. (Also the Justin Bailey magenta leotard and green hair is unironically her best look IMO)

You're probably right (especially since I think he already sucks ass in 2D, only worked in Dread because of the 360° aiming, and in Super and ZM is just as bad of a boss design as Mother Brain but without the excuse of the NEStroid version to fall back on) but it would be cool to see attempted regardless. You're probably right on the next two points as well.

I hate to admit it but I do agree there as well, though this may just be my mild antagonism towards Super talking, and Gandrayda's beats both anyway. Ehh, mileage may vary and I get why you say that, but I like 'em all. And I disagree; that certainly helped, but to my knowledge it was already kind of a big deal even beforehand.

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

oh you want controversial Metroid opinions? ok here we go

the prime games are in fact better than all the 2D ones

Super Metroid has aged for the worse and fusion, zero mission, and dread are much easier recommendations for someone starting the series

the ending to the original Metroid 2 ending is not as impactful as some hardcore fans think it is

Samus Returns and other M Ridley are the only objectively good Ridley fights in the franchise

the X parasites suck

Raven Beak is a better direction than the Samsu vs Galactic federation that fans built up for years because of a mistranslation

Zero Suit Samus is not as bad as people here make it out to be

unless it's some scripted fight a kraid fight in 3D would probably suck

SA-X stops being cool on repeat playthroughs

Prime 4 is going to be a much larger departure from the original trilogy than some fans expect and it's going to turn them off from it

rundus's death has more emotional impact than the baby in super

Dread only has like three memorable area's

AM2R is only talked about because of when it released and Nintendo taking down the game, not for its actual quality

also none of theses are actually " I'll die on this hill" takes for me it is just a game series I love, I save core beliefs for more impotent real world stuff

 

[Stilt Village]

Because everyone still hates them, I am once again going to state that AM2R's Metroid fights are the best combat in the series pre-MercurySteam. This is for some reason my most controversial Metroid opinion.

Also Dread's areas aren't that memorable, but I actually think they look very nice artistically, which is a first for a non-Retro Metroid game since... Fusion? They're let down by the lack of good music and the way the game bounces you between a ton of different areas and doesn't really elaborate on them or do enough to set them apart from similar places in past games.

This is something I see bandied about a lot, that AM2R's tracks are very "Prime styled" but honestly I don't see (hear?) the comparison. I like what they're doing, but listening to a Prime track and an AM2R track back-to-back, they have pretty distinct vibes to me. AM2R's music is very obviously music, heavy on the melody, and with a pretty laid-back and surprisingly light tone outside of specific tracks for moments of tension. And the sound texture has the sort of HD-false-nostalgia, not chiptune but chiptune adjacent/inspired feel I hear in a few modern indies, especially with the remixes of the Metroid encounter theme. It has a very breezy and obviously-music quality to it, where the Prime OST sounds more overtly alien or ambient, blending diagetic and non-diagetic elements.

Where I will say AM2R's soundtrack is a letdown for me, is that they opted to replace the original ambience of Areas 2-5 with different tracks. People give Samus Returns crap for wholesale importing Magmoor Caverns and Red Brinstar for the thousandth time, and I do to, but I also appreciate that it gave us new renditions of those original Caverns tracks as well:

Huh. I actually never noticed the AM2R ambience wasn't based on the original game's ambience at all, probably because you just don't hear it for very long.

By comparing it to Prime though, my emphasis was supposed to be on "loosely recreating", because I think it sounds like Prime more in the way Zero Mission or Samus Returns "sound like Prime." It borrows some of its sounds, and it also likes to imitate the way Prime uses rhythm, or try to. I feel like the Metroid Queen theme for instance really wants to sound like a Prime version of the track, but if you listen to any of the actual Prime final boss themes, their beats have way more going on and there's just whole layers of atmosphere that AM2R's more lo-fi quality doesn't ever touch on, it's not even remotely similar except on the most superficial level. They kind of simplified it from the Game Boy version, even! That's kind of what I was getting at, it's not authentic at all, it sounds a lot cheaper than the real thing, and it's funny how in spite of that it still easily comes out on top of the other Metroid II soundtracks just by being not mostly ambient.

(Although more than being bothered by its reuse, I actually think the Samus Returns version of Magmoor is just kind of shit compared to the others. Annoyed me when that was the one we finally got in Smash. I don't really like the way any of its arrangements sound, although it's better than Dread.)

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

if you want ice-cold take it from me it's

despite aging a bit super metroid is still the best temple for search action-games even if I prefer later entries

another m is bad like really fucking bad

prime remastered is pretty

it really sucks the last 2 Metroid games have had problems crediting everyone involved

the baby Metroid sacrifice is an incredible narrative device for being a super Nintendo game that doesn't use text boxes to tell a story

Retro is the 2nd best acquisition Nintendo has ever made behind only buying monlithsoft

 

[Metroid]

if you want ice-cold take it from me it's

despite aging a bit super metroid is still the best temple for search action-games even if I prefer later entries

another m is bad like really fucking bad

prime remastered is pretty

it really sucks the last 2 Metroid games have had problems crediting everyone involved

the baby Metroid sacrifice is an incredible narrative device for being a super Nintendo game that doesn't use text boxes to tell a story
Retro is the 2nd best acquisition Nintendo has ever made behind only buying monlithsoft

6/6. We can be boring together with these

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I think both Ridley fights in Corruption are great as well as the Other M and SR ones. Prime 1 Meta Ridley is such a boring slog and easily my least favorite. At least with most of the 2d ones, even though they're uninteresting fights you can pretty much just spam Missile/Supermissile him to death really quickly.

 

[chocolate_supra]

#IstandwithAurc

 

[Kingpin Rogers]

I'm always good for a controversial opinion.
I don't think the Prime games are very good, and I think Prime remastered is very heavily overrated for its visuals. It doesn't look especially impressive, even for a Switch game and the resolution is low enough that it looks overly smudgy.

 

[darthdiablo]

 

[space_dragon]

Things are getting brutal in here

 

[ColdGoldLazarus]

By comparing it to Prime though, my emphasis was supposed to be on "loosely recreating", because I think it sounds like Prime more in the way Zero Mission or Samus Returns "sound like Prime." It borrows some of its sounds, and it also likes to imitate the way Prime uses rhythm, or try to. I feel like the Metroid Queen theme for instance really wants to sound like a Prime version of the track, but if you listen to any of the actual Prime final boss themes, their beats have way more going on and there's just whole layers of atmosphere that AM2R's more lo-fi quality doesn't ever touch on, it's not even remotely similar except on the most superficial level. They kind of simplified it from the Game Boy version, even! That's kind of what I was getting at, it's not authentic at all, it sounds a lot cheaper than the real thing, and it's funny how in spite of that it still easily comes out on top of the other Metroid II soundtracks just by being not mostly ambient.

Ahhhhh. Admittedly still feels like a little bit of a stretch, but when you put it that way I can see it. Especially with the Metroid Queen theme.

also none of theses are actually " I'll die on this hill" takes for me it is just a game series I love, I save core beliefs for more impotent real world stuff

Yeah, very much agreed.

actually, my fan theory is that Sylux is a failed Samus or human Chozo hybrid clone made by the federation in an attempt to make super soldiers but went rogue

Oooh, that option might be cool, yeah. Also saw a theory that they're an AI robot that I really like. Though with the tech in this universe, that idea obviously doesn't cancel out the potential of some organic components, that could include some lifted birb lady genetic sauce.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

You know what, I'll drop some of my hot takes that i've said many times before so no one cares

Raven beak is one of the worst bosses in Dread and is lowkey one of the most overrated antagonists in a game in years, the fact that he is so beloved speaks more to how little characterization the average Metroid villain actually gets than anything

The amount of visual variety in Dread's bosses is borderline criminal (Experiment Z-57 looking just like Corpius, Drogyga being another tentacle monster, Escue and Golzuna being based off their normal enemy counterparts), especially when you consider how much it reuses (sub)bosses already. In general the amount of unique bosses is bad but at least the gameplay uses them well.

Fusion trying to redo the Super Metroid ending was bad

In general, Fusion (and to a lesser extent Dread) don't get enough credit for their bad writing. The monologues were bad even on the GBA.

The last two Metroid remakes did a better job of handling the linear / non-linear equation than the last two mainline games

The fact that Super Metroid's exploration has been diluted in influence in the modern games to just "we need speedrunning" is kind of infuriating

Metroid does not need to take any lessons from Hollow Knight

 

[space_dragon]

Fusion trying to redo the Super Metroid ending was bad

In general, Fusion (and to a lesser extent Dread) don't get enough credit for their bad writing. The monologues were bad even on the GBA.

Alright, now I'm mad.

Claims to be an Enjoyer of Peak. Doesn't even know what Peak is.

 

[Aurc]

@AngryAlchemist, some of those takes are getting deeper under my skin than SpaceGodzilla's, so well done

For now, I'll just say this: not only is Raven Peak a phenomenal boss, but he's easily the best boss fight across the entire Metroid series. To be clear, I'm speaking strictly on the mechanics and enjoyment level of the battle here. I get it if you think he's a poor antagonist, I largely feel that way too. My hot / unpopular (?) take is that going forward, more boss fights need to be high challenge multi-phase affairs. Z-57 and Raven Beak are exactly how it should be done.

Also, Fusion's writing is superb (relative to what it is, y'know), and don't you dare say otherwise.

Things are getting brutal in here

The Process is taking a god damn vacation, and we're getting up to shenanigans as it sips martinis on the beach

 

[AngryAlchemist]

@AngryAlchemist, some of those takes are getting deeper under my skin than SpaceGodzilla's, so well done

For now, I'll just say this: not only is Raven Peak a phenomenal boss, but he's easily the best boss fight across the entire Metroid series. To be clear, I'm speaking strictly on the mechanics and enjoyment level of the battle here. I get it if you think he's a poor antagonist, I largely feel that way too. My hot / unpopular (?) take is that going forward, more boss fights need to be high challenge multi-phase affairs. Z-57 and Raven Beak are exactly how it should be done.

Also, Fusion's writing is superb (relative to what it is, y'know), and don't you dare say otherwise.

boss so mechanically rich and deep, it gives you a free parry just for morph balling : cappa :

at least the Hollow Knight part earned me some forgiveness points, right?

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

You know what, I'll drop some of my hot takes that i've said many times before so no one cares

Raven beak is one of the worst bosses in Dread and is lowkey one of the most overrated antagonists in a game in years, the fact that he is so beloved speaks more to how little characterization the average Metroid villain actually gets than anything

The amount of visual variety in Dread's bosses is borderline criminal (Experiment Z-57 looking just like Corpius, Drogyga being another tentacle monster, Escue and Golzuna being based off their normal enemy counterparts), especially when you consider how much it reuses (sub)bosses already. In general the amount of unique bosses is bad but at least the gameplay uses them well.

Fusion trying to redo the Super Metroid ending was bad

In general, Fusion (and to a lesser extent Dread) don't get enough credit for their bad writing. The monologues were bad even on the GBA.

The last two Metroid remakes did a better job of handling the linear / non-linear equation than the last two mainline games

The fact that Super Metroid's exploration has been diluted in influence in the modern games to just "we need speedrunning" is kind of infuriating

Metroid does not need to take any lessons from Hollow Knight

the best part about growing up is realizing, is no you don't actually "have to respect everyone's opinions" just don't be rude about how wrong they are