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StarTopic Metroid |ST| Praise The Process

Metroid Prime 4 in the June 2024 Nintendo Direct?


  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
I greatly enjoyed Fusion on NSO, first time I beat it. I hated the bosses, don't think I could handle them without rewind. But the rest of the game, was pretty fun. And the gameplay and physics felt quite improved compared to Super. Also liked the graphics and the colorful backgrounds.
 
I have good reason to believe that we will get Prime-level remasters of Echoes and Corruption (it's my undying optimism and boundless zest for life)

In all seriousness though, it'd be a waste to go back to Corruption where they have to adapt all the controls and not put in the extra work to make it more appealing to a wider audience. Maybe my thinking is backwards here and Nintendo disagrees, though.
 
I have good reason to believe that we will get Prime-level remasters of Echoes and Corruption (it's my undying optimism and boundless zest for life)

In all seriousness though, it'd be a waste to go back to Corruption where they have to adapt all the controls and not put in the extra work to make it more appealing to a wider audience. Maybe my thinking is backwards here and Nintendo disagrees, though.
I kinda agree with you on Corruption, it'll probably require the most work out of all the games, so might as well go all the way and do a full remaster of it like the first Prime... then again, Skyward Sword HD didn't see much improvements, as far as I know, so who knows...

The inner mechanisms of Nintendo are often an enigma.
 
Fusion is still my favorite 2D Metroid game, and one of the best 2D games ever made. I love everything about it. One thing that I think is really underrated about it is the level design. Yes, it's linear, but there were always puzzles or blocked paths where you had to figure out how to proceed. I liked finding all of the hidden exits that put my power of observation or timing/dexterity to the test. The music is also very underrated, especially for being on the GBA. Here's one of my favorites:


Yeah, I think the soundtrack is for sure underrated. I love pretty much the entire thing, with the exception of maybe this Metroid Dread-esque tune. I think Fusion's OST does an extremely solid job of creating an unsettling atmosphere. There are so many good mood setting horror tracks, the sector themes are great, certain boss themes like that of Serris / Yakuza and Nightmare are distinct and memorable, and then there's stuff like Crisis Mission and a credits theme I feel is right up there with the others.
I have good reason to believe that we will get Prime-level remasters of Echoes and Corruption (it's my undying optimism and boundless zest for life)

In all seriousness though, it'd be a waste to go back to Corruption where they have to adapt all the controls and not put in the extra work to make it more appealing to a wider audience. Maybe my thinking is backwards here and Nintendo disagrees, though.
I believe in your optimism and zest for life. That's just the process coursing through your veins. Respect it. Honor it.

Right now, a bunch of factors are ripe for speculating on. Is it just Echoes we're getting on Switch next, or Corruption too? Remasters on-par with MPR, or a simple upres type deal? If the latter, will they at least update that weird Samus model at the end of Prime 2?

God, I want the whole trilogy done up in the style of MPR so badly. It's such a high quality modernization of one of Nintendo's best games. It'd be deflating to go from that, to straightforward upreses.
 
I remember when I first played Metroid Prime. I felt a little sad. You’re so alone. There’s nobody to talk to. No one to communicate with. Just alone and isolated as if you’re the last person alive. Then I played Metroid Prime 2. The Ing were there and I felt a little bit more happy just having an NPC to talk with in the game.

When the third game came it felt so fresh to me. Now, they really made a huge leap with NPC’s all over the place. I was really happy to be in a world more alive and bright compared to the first two prime games. Overall, it’s still my least favorite of the three, but I think the liveliness was more pronounced after playing Prime 1 + 2 right before it.
 
I remember when I first played Metroid Prime. I felt a little sad. You’re so alone. There’s nobody to talk to. No one to communicate with. Just alone and isolated as if you’re the last person alive. Then I played Metroid Prime 2. The Ing were there and I felt a little bit more happy just having an NPC to talk with in the game.

When the third game came it felt so fresh to me. Now, they really made a huge leap with NPC’s all over the place. I was really happy to be in a world more alive and bright compared to the first two prime games. Overall, it’s still my least favorite of the three, but I think the liveliness was more pronounced after playing Prime 1 + 2 right before it.
Yeah, one aspect I really love about Prime 3 is the expanded lore as a result of those added characters. Admiral Dane is a cool military commander dude (he even said a bad word in a Nintendo game!), then there's the Aurora Units who are basically non-evil Mother Brains, followed by Rundas, Ghor, and Gandrayda, all of which are new and unique aliens. It's just really neat from a worldbuilding perspective. We got to see a bit of how the Galactic Federation operates and interacts with Samus.
 
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I have good reason to believe that we will get Prime-level remasters of Echoes and Corruption (it's my undying optimism and boundless zest for life)

In all seriousness though, it'd be a waste to go back to Corruption where they have to adapt all the controls and not put in the extra work to make it more appealing to a wider audience. Maybe my thinking is backwards here and Nintendo disagrees, though.
since all Metroid Prime games share the same engine, Retro Studios can easily adapt this engine to work on the subsequents games
 
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Prime 3 is easily as good as the other ones, it's just different. I totally get not liking the NPC's, but those sections amount to literally 10% of the game. 90% of the game is Samus exploring alone, though of course the Aurora Unit's do talk to you. They're less chatty than Adam is in Fusion and they provide some nice context for what you are doing. Instead of just "collect 3 keys to unlock the boss" like in Echoes, you actually have different missions to carry out on your quest to each seed, making things more interesting.

I also get not liking the multi-world approach, as it can come off as anti-Metroid, but the areas here all feel very cohesive. To me, it's basically just that you are seeing a ship cutscene vs an elevator cutscene. Also, Prime 4 is absolutely going to have fast travel even if it takes place on one planet, so get used to it :p

Art direction is easily the best of the trilogy, with Skytown being the crown Jewel. Bosses are fantastic, especially the hunter fights and the Ridley fights. Helios is tons of fun as well. Controls are the best a FPS has ever been on a home console, easily outclassing dual analogue, to the point that I've consistently expressed concern about how they would translate in the rumored remaster. Every aspect of Corruption's design is tuned to IR pointer controls... Enemies, puzzles, exploration... Even just observing the environment. The music is on par with Echoes in my opinion, a perfect balance of moody ambience and memorable melodies, as every great Metroid soundtrack.

But my favorite thing about the game is how amazingly Retro implemented environmental storytelling into the gameplay itself. Just walking through the Xenoresearch Lab on Skytown seeing all the Metroids in their holding cells, only for the power to go out, the glass breaks and... Or seeing the Hunters do battle with the Pirates as Samus tunnels through morphball passages on the GFS Olympus. There are tons of moments like this throughout the game that demonstrate sublime world building and storytelling through gameplay.

It's also just the most "fun" Metroid game to play for me, along with Fusion, and a game I'll never tire of.
 
Prime 3 is easily as good as the other ones, it's just different. I totally get not liking the NPC's, but those sections amount to literally 10% of the game. 90% of the game is Samus exploring alone, though of course the Aurora Unit's do talk to you. They're less chatty than Adam is in Fusion and they provide some nice context for what you are doing. Instead of just "collect 3 keys to unlock the boss" like in Echoes, you actually have different missions to carry out on your quest to each seed, making things more interesting.

I also get not liking the multi-world approach, as it can come off as anti-Metroid, but the areas here all feel very cohesive. To me, it's basically just that you are seeing a ship cutscene vs an elevator cutscene. Also, Prime 4 is absolutely going to have fast travel even if it takes place on one planet, so get used to it :p

Art direction is easily the best of the trilogy, with Skytown being the crown Jewel. Bosses are fantastic, especially the hunter fights and the Ridley fights. Helios is tons of fun as well. Controls are the best a FPS has ever been on a home console, easily outclassing dual analogue, to the point that I've consistently expressed concern about how they would translate in the rumored remaster. Every aspect of Corruption's design is tuned to IR pointer controls... Enemies, puzzles, exploration... Even just observing the environment. The music is on par with Echoes in my opinion, a perfect balance of moody ambience and memorable melodies, as every great Metroid soundtrack.

But my favorite thing about the game is how amazingly Retro implemented environmental storytelling into the gameplay itself. Just walking through the Xenoresearch Lab on Skytown seeing all the Metroids in their holding cells, only for the power to go out, the glass breaks and... Or seeing the Hunters do battle with the Pirates as Samus tunnels through morphball passages on the GFS Olympus. There are tons of moments like this throughout the game that demonstrate sublime world building and storytelling through gameplay.

It's also just the most "fun" Metroid game to play for me, along with Fusion, and a game I'll never tire of.
Can’t disagree with much here. Corruption definitely has concerning parts regarding its atmosphere in the first hour but as a sequel it manages to hit a lot of notes perfectly. Whatever is lost in world cohesion by having different planets is gained by allowing the environments to be radically different from each other along with their own lores/scans/enemies/etc. I think the AUs were a reasonable enough concession to help make up for the different planet trotting maybe confusing some people. They’re your ally but they’re rooted in one spot and very monotone and straight faced. The Metroid Lab and Valhalla are highs in the Trilogy regarding the use of scanning, really can’t praise that stuff enough. I’m not crazy about the GF vs SP stuff. I enjoy what they bring to the table lore wise (Space Pirates are a lot more interesting) but the escort mission on Homeworld and the stuff on Olympus/Norion wasn’t what I had in mind. Hoping Tanabe reeled himself in after FF
 
Fusion is still my favorite 2D Metroid game, and one of the best 2D games ever made. I love everything about it. One thing that I think is really underrated about it is the level design. Yes, it's linear, but there were always puzzles or blocked paths where you had to figure out how to proceed. I liked finding all of the hidden exits that put my power of observation or timing/dexterity to the test. The music is also very underrated, especially for being on the GBA. Here's one of my favorites:


Fusion is my go-to example for what makes Metroid's level design different from other Metroidvanias. Because it always tells you where to go, they had to place so much emphasis on making the how interesting. It's so good about continually evolving and subverting the expectations it sets up.
 
I've started playing DMantra's highly regarded Super Metroid ROM hack, V I T A L I T Y. This is among the most popular SM hacks, and I'm glad I've finally gotten around to it. It's been a highly immersive experience so far, featuring darker aesthetics and tone relative to vanilla SM, and seemingly taking heavier inspiration from Alien and H.R. Giger. I'll report back with more detailed impressions after I finish it.

This trailer for it rules:

 
So, I finally finished Super Metroid.

...
...
...it was merely ok.
giphy.gif


Super Metroid is like Citizen Kane to me. On a conceptual level, I completely see why this game is considered one of the GOATs of all time. It's atmospheric, moody, has great music, and its story is very effective despite it being told primarily in the intro and with a few scenes here and there. It defines Metroid in every level.

...And yet I always struggle to keep playing this game. It takes actual effort for me to start it up. I think it's because I grew up on the GBA so I far prefer the style of Fusion and Zero Mission. It's why Dread for me is my favorite Metroid because of all the actiony parts. I don't really got much to say. Super Metroid is just something I can't get into.
 
Eh, every Metroid feels linear once you know where you're going, unless you are intentionally sequence breaking. And Dread is the first game in a long time that you've been able to do it fairly easily.
That said, I do generally tend to agree with the idea that it's fitting for progression in Metroid, since a new title is unlikely to make its world particularly obtuse, to be facilitated by an invisible hand, one which allows the world to feel organic and real, a living, breathing entity.

The concept of optional areas and content has been mentioned a number of times in these threads, and those might even be able to help make the game feel less linear -- obviously in that they don't directly lead to the main path and aren't required for it, but also in the possibility that sometimes the best way forward might even be the less obvious trek into one of these areas, even to the point of engaging with its content and acquiring new abilities -- and, in any case, being separate from the critical path yet being substantial in different ways, even and especially if just through lore or worldbuilding, can help the world to possess that living, organic essence.




I hope we're done with the X Parasites. They were cool for Fusion and Dread, but I think it's time to introduce a new antagonistic force, or even bring back the Space Pirates in a fresh new way (since they haven't been the main threat for a couple games now).
what for Metroid 6, Nintendo decided to use the rouge/corruption faction of the Galatic Federation as it main treath
They're never going to have Samus primarily fighting and killing (she has no non lethal weapon , remember) human enemies. That's a pretty clear hard line they've drawn and it won't be crossed.

I could see a scenario where some of this falls more into the background. Perhaps the X pop up or are otherwise alluded to occasionally, even if just in reference to a dead planet where they have been, but they aren't ubiquitous (After all, they hadn't been encountered until recently).

As for the Space Pirates, I've had some amount of misgiving about them for a while. They've been incredibly organized and powerful -- and everywhere -- for something labeled as pirates. I've felt that they might make sense showing up so much in search of weaponizing metroids, but it becomes a bit much once they become the primary threat to the Federation. And now they've been dealt what seem to be crippling blows, and the metroid project has largely fallen through. I really do think they can take a rest.

For what's already been introduced, I do think the Federation as an entity make sense as being presented as a consistent antagonistic force at this point, but I suspect that might be best handled, still, primarily in the background without pitting Samus directly against individual Federation troopers. It can play into why she's undertaking a particular task, or stopped in a particular location, or whatnot. And this does present the opportunity to throw the occasional bounty hunter against her path.

tecnically Samus already killed human enemies before, the possesed Federation Troopers for Metroid Prime 2, or Nintendo could make the rougue Galactic Federation fight Samus with bioweapons/machines
I think those were deemed acceptable on the basis of being technically non-human; they were possessed corpses, which is suitably macabre but is presented as lacking some of the ethical quandary inherent to the taking of the actual human life.



Beyond that, it's something of a shame there's less coordination between Metroids teams and an unlikeliness for different concepts to carry over. I could see a situation akin to what I've described above, but then wherein the Kriken Empire is also built up and faced, a truly terrifying foe, and then Samus happens upon a Kriken incursion filled with death and destruction and desolation, only to learn that the Kriken involved have been taken over by the X (A situation like this would be most likely to come from a non-Sakamoto team, given the focus on a concept from outside his purview even if it melds into the mainline titles through use of the X). Also, I think it would likely be best to find a way to make the X more unsettling and terrifying in general, just visually and through their presence, to go with their destructive capabilities.




I was more thinking about samus dealing with orter bounty hunters in specifics area of the map
On a slight tangent, I still think Retro's concept for Prime 1.5 could be reworked into something. If the ship in question is transmitting a signal to lure in powerful entities for the purpose of assimilating their abilities and knowledge, Samus could even encounter slain hunters she knows and then have to face off against what was gained from them.

It's not quite the same thing at all, but it made me think of it.



As if that wasn't enough, the Etecoons and Dachoras are present on the station as well, untouched by the X, serving as a reminder of what's worth saving... and a metaphor for the incorruptible light amidst overwhelming darkness.
This was a good writeup overall, Aurc, and, to my recollection, I tend to agree.

But a thought I had here. I've been saying for a while that there needs to be a comprehensive Metroid 1-4 collection, including originals and remakes where applicable (perhaps even just call the collection Metroid).

But I've had a thought here that would change things up just slightly. Maybe rescuing the Etecoon and Dachora in Fusion is now a point toward your completion percentage, but they're only present if you also saved them in Super. Kind of a random thought.
 
So, I finally finished Super Metroid.

...
...
...it was merely ok.
giphy.gif


Super Metroid is like Citizen Kane to me. On a conceptual level, I completely see why this game is considered one of the GOATs of all time. It's atmospheric, moody, has great music, and its story is very effective despite it being told primarily in the intro and with a few scenes here and there. It defines Metroid in every level.

...And yet I always struggle to keep playing this game. It takes actual effort for me to start it up. I think it's because I grew up on the GBA so I far prefer the style of Fusion and Zero Mission. It's why Dread for me is my favorite Metroid because of all the actiony parts. I don't really got much to say. Super Metroid is just something I can't get into.


How very dare you.



You know, I'm glad for the appreciation of quality even in the face of your absolute certainty that it's not for you, and the description of what you do see in it. It seems way too often people can't delineate between the two, and something is good if they like it and bad if they don't. To recognize dissonance between the two appears more and more a lost art.

I do think the actiony parts are here to stay going forward, unless removed in specific instances to specific effect. And I certainly can't fault that so well as everything is designed properly around it. One might even suggest it to be fitting.
 
Super Metroid exists in the same space as Ocarina of Time for me in that I love both games, they're absolutely genre-defining masterpieces, etc etc etc but I'd rather the respective series continue to move on from them (I will always maintain that Twilight Princess was, in many ways, held back by trying to be another OoT). There is unlikely to be another game that truly has the same vibe as Super Metroid... and I think that's fine, personally. It will always exist when I want the experience it gives. I'll probably give it another replay when I finally get around to renewing my NSO subscription.

If it matters: I grew up with OoT whereas I didn't play Super Metroid until after I'd already played Fusion, Zero Mission, and Return of Samus as an adult.

Now, I'll be off imagining, in my mind palace, my ideal Super Metroid remake (quality of life enhancements and the graphics are done in the style of games like Dust: An Elysian Tail).
 
Beyond that, it's something of a shame there's less coordination between Metroids teams and an unlikeliness for different concepts to carry over.
You're right, because the possibilities could be endless if Sakamoto, Tanabe and their respective teams truly worked together, taking turns at telling various episodes in the overall Metroid saga. But it is what it is.

Again, all the more reason I advocate for a true split.
 
Super Metroid exists in the same space as Ocarina of Time for me in that I love both games, they're absolutely genre-defining masterpieces, etc etc etc but I'd rather the respective series continue to move on from them (I will always maintain that Twilight Princess was, in many ways, held back by trying to be another OoT). There is unlikely to be another game that truly has the same vibe as Super Metroid... and I think that's fine, personally. It will always exist when I want the experience it gives. I'll probably give it another replay when I finally get around to renewing my NSO subscription.
I don't really think the Ocarina of Time comparison makes sense. Ocarina of Time being used as a guidepost for 3D Zelda didn't work because the team either used it too rigidly, didn't understand what made that game special (it wasn't the overt linearity), or weren't able to execute their vision. Super Metroid, on the other hand, hasn't been used as a guidepost for just about anything mainline other than the Zero Mission remake, which is nothing when everything else has been following in Fusion's footsteps since 2002.

Super Metroid's problems in this day and age also aren't formula related, because the newer games more or less follow the same exact formula just with a lot more linearity and signposting. They are controls and physics oriented, which wouldn't be an issue in a modern title anyways. Maybe you could add a little bit more signposting for the exploration in a Super inspired game, but you wouldn't need that much more. So I don't really see the benefit of the series continuing to move away from Super as inspiration, when all of its problems are QoL improvements, not formula related ones.

If anything - and in the spirit of continuing with the fun if questionable Zelda comparisons - bringing back more elements of Super would at this point be the equivalent of bringing in some Zelda 1 inspiration for Breath of the Wild, because the series isn't even particularly good as an exploration title anymore. They're kind of just games where you happen to explore a planet in between the game pointing you to the next action sequence, and on the rare occasion you do get stuck it's incredibly obvious how much these newer games aren't about exploration because it feels so unnatural (that lab that everyone gets stuck in on their first playthrough of Dread is a great example of this - not only is it the weirdest roadblock since they take you to a new area, let you explore for 5 minutes, then tell you to go back without hinting it to you, but also the segmentation of the map making each area incredibly isolated and self-sufficient as well as the guiding hand the game has given so far completely throw you off that you're supposed to go back).

I know I'm overthinking your point though and you're just saying the series should continue heading the direction it's heading in. I don't necessarily disagree, but I do find the assertion the series needs to continuously move away from Super odd.
 
Beyond that, it's something of a shame there's less coordination between Metroids teams and an unlikeliness for different concepts to carry over. I could see a situation akin to what I've described above, but then wherein the Kriken Empire is also built up and faced, a truly terrifying foe, and then Samus happens upon a Kriken incursion filled with death and destruction and desolation, only to learn that the Kriken involved have been taken over by the X (A situation like this would be most likely to come from a non-Sakamoto team, given the focus on a concept from outside his purview even if it melds into the mainline titles through use of the X). Also, I think it would likely be best to find a way to make the X more unsettling and terrifying in general, just visually and through their presence, to go with their destructive capabilities.
Ehhhhhhhh, as someone who literally got an epileptic seizure playing Metroid Prime. I'd really rather not have something make it required I play the Prime games to understand the plot.

And honestly, the plot not mattering until it does is standard for Sci-Fi pulp which Samus is clearly emulating. I don't want to end up in this comic book lore where I have to know what happens in a series I'm not interested in so I can understand what's going on in another. And yes, I consider Prime its own series because I physically cannot play nor want to risk my own life playing a video game, no matter how many awards it gets.
 
I don't really think the Ocarina of Time comparison makes sense. Ocarina of Time being used as a guidepost for 3D Zelda didn't work because the team either used it too rigidly, didn't understand what made that game special (it wasn't the overt linearity), or weren't able to execute their vision. Super Metroid, on the other hand, hasn't been used as a guidepost for just about anything mainline other than the Zero Mission remake, which is nothing when everything else has been following in Fusion's footsteps since 2002.

Super Metroid's problems in this day and age also aren't formula related, because the newer games more or less follow the same exact formula just with a lot more linearity and signposting. They are controls and physics oriented, which wouldn't be an issue in a modern title anyways. Maybe you could add a little bit more signposting for the exploration in a Super inspired game, but you wouldn't need that much more. So I don't really see the benefit of the series continuing to move away from Super as inspiration, when all of its problems are QoL improvements, not formula related ones.

If anything - and in the spirit of continuing with the fun if questionable Zelda comparisons - bringing back more elements of Super would at this point be the equivalent of bringing in some Zelda 1 inspiration for Breath of the Wild, because the series isn't even particularly good as an exploration title anymore. They're kind of just games where you happen to explore a planet in between the game pointing you to the next action sequence, and on the rare occasion you do get stuck it's incredibly obvious how much these newer games aren't about exploration because it feels so unnatural (that lab that everyone gets stuck in on their first playthrough of Dread is a great example of this - not only is it the weirdest roadblock since they take you to a new area, let you explore for 5 minutes, then tell you to go back without hinting it to you, but also the segmentation of the map making each area incredibly isolated and self-sufficient as well as the guiding hand the game has given so far completely throw you off that you're supposed to go back).

I know I'm overthinking your point though and you're just saying the series should continue heading the direction it's heading in. I don't necessarily disagree, but I do find the assertion the series needs to continuously move away from Super odd.
To try to clarify (I'm autistic and struggle to communicate what I mean clearly sometimes), I don't really mean Metroid needs to move away from Super as inspiration. I just mean Super as a whole package can't be replicated and I think trying to make a new Super, to recreate that specific Magic, isn't going to work. "Why don't they just make Super again?" isn't a question I want to ask, myself, and I don't want to compare every title to Super, either ("it's good, but it's not Super"). Adding in more exploration would be welcome and I'm not against it.

The OoT comparison was no deeper than "here's another well-regarded game that I do really love but don't think needs to be rigidly recreated even if some fans I've spoken to the past think it should be". I felt like Twilight Princess wanted to be its own thing but also wanted to recreate the OoT Magic and ended up accomplishing neither for me personally. I still like the game well enough, but that's why I brought it up.

Again, I just don't think every new game needs to be in Super's shadow (or OoT's, although I'd say that ship has sailed with BotW by now). They can take inspiration from it but still grow outside of it. Sorry if that was unclear, and I completely understand if you don't agree with me on this point, either. I'm absolutely speaking more in vibes/creative processes than strictly gameplay.
 
To try to clarify (I'm autistic and struggle to communicate what I mean clearly sometimes), I don't really mean Metroid needs to move away from Super as inspiration. I just mean Super as a whole package can't be replicated and I think trying to make a new Super, to recreate that specific Magic, isn't going to work. "Why don't they just make Super again?" isn't a question I want to ask, myself, and I don't want to compare every title to Super, either ("it's good, but it's not Super"). Adding in more exploration would be welcome and I'm not against it.

The OoT comparison was no deeper than "here's another well-regarded game that I do really love but don't think needs to be rigidly recreated even if some fans I've spoken to the past think it should be". I felt like Twilight Princess wanted to be its own thing but also wanted to recreate the OoT Magic and ended up accomplishing neither for me personally. I still like the game well enough, but that's why I brought it up.

Again, I just don't think every new game needs to be in Super's shadow (or OoT's, although I'd say that ship has sailed with BotW by now). They can take inspiration from it but still grow outside of it. Sorry if that was unclear, and I completely understand if you don't agree with me on this point, either. I'm absolutely speaking more in vibes/creative processes than strictly gameplay.
Alright, sorry if I interpreted too much into your comment. I think I was confused because I don't really see people saying the new games need to replicate Super - if anything I see a lot of people talking about how Super shouldn't get a remake because it shouldn't be touched, or how they don't want the same basic area themes to be taken from Super again (like in Prime). So I thought maybe you were talking about more an inspiration angle. I kind of knew I was overthinking it but wanted to express my take anyways. I think we all (or most at least) can agree that the series staying creative is a good thing and the franchise would be worse if it were creatively bankrupt. Also, just because I explain something thoroughly doesn't mean I'm upset or arguing, so I hope it didn't come off that way, just to be clear.
 
Beyond that, it's something of a shame there's less coordination between Metroids teams
Eh, I very much prefer the two series to stay separate. The longer each go on the less sense both make together. I’m of the idea that the Prime series starts with the original Metroid 1 and that the 2D series starts with Zero Mission. The two series have never come together to tell even one plot beat together. Even Proteus Ridley in SR just seemed to me to be the 2D series way of explaining his ass whooping in ZM. I love both series and would prefer they do their own thing.

As for the corrupt GF stuff in 2D, I’d prefer they didn’t take more antagonistic center stage. Can’t say it was very interesting in Other M or Fusion. I’ve thought that the best way to get rid of that is to have a larger epilogue in the inevitable Fusion remake that actually explains what happens to Samus and GF because they seem to have got over it in Dread. Though it’s pretty funny to imagine bioweapon scientists kicking and screaming after Samus blew up yet another planet with X on it.
 
Alright, sorry if I interpreted too much into your comment. I think I was confused because I don't really see people saying the new games need to replicate Super - if anything I see a lot of people talking about how Super shouldn't get a remake because it shouldn't be touched, or how they don't want the same basic area themes to be taken from Super again (like in Prime). So I thought maybe you were talking about more an inspiration angle. I kind of knew I was overthinking it but wanted to express my take anyways. I think we all (or most at least) can agree that the series staying creative is a good thing and the franchise would be worse if it were creatively bankrupt. Also, just because I explain something thoroughly doesn't mean I'm upset or arguing, so I hope it didn't come off that way, just to be clear.
No worries! You didn't sound upset. I get it.

The "they need to replicate Super" is one I've seen elsewhere every so often since getting into the series back in... 2011? 12? I saw a lot more of it when Samus Returns came out and then when Dread was announced/newly released. Haven't really seen it on here, though. But it's still something I end up thinking about when Super or discussions of future games come up.
 
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I'm playing through the outer wilds right now and this is the closest any game has gotten to the feeling of exploration of the metroid prime trilogy. Highly recommend

EDIT: I no longer fully recommend OW due to the obnoxious puzzles
 
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You're right, because the possibilities could be endless if Sakamoto, Tanabe and their respective teams truly worked together, taking turns at telling various episodes in the overall Metroid saga. But it is what it is.

Again, all the more reason I advocate for a true split.

I definitely wouldn't go that far, but more to littler benefits, where different elements can intentionally complement or contrast each other, or little bits of worldbuilding can persist, or touches of character can build. Basically, where the aforementioned Kriken can be referenced as a concern of the Federation, rather than throwing space pirates back into it. Or where we don't bring back and kill Ridley again lest it appear ridiculous. Or where the structure of the Galactic Federation is coherent.

Come to type it out, it's not even all a concern of communication, but rather a willingness to take elements into consideration, just the slightest touch of coordination.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I don't think the different lines of Metroid need to be terribly interconnected in general. They can have their own stories to tell, rather than only telling one, and that can help the universe feel just a tad less constructed. The earlier suggestion would essentially be its own story, after all, just playing with pieces that already exist from elsewhere; however, it does seem it might rely a bit heavily on the larger story in order to itself be narratively fulfilling.

And I'm not sure you really gain much from a true split, at least unless one line goes off the rails. Different subseries can coexist in one continuity, even if they never actually interact. There's room to have different things happen that aren't always directly connected to something else.


Eh, I very much prefer the two series to stay separate. The longer each go on the less sense both make together. I’m of the idea that the Prime series starts with the original Metroid 1 and that the 2D series starts with Zero Mission. The two series have never come together to tell even one plot beat together. Even Proteus Ridley in SR just seemed to me to be the 2D series way of explaining his ass whooping in ZM. I love both series and would prefer they do their own thing.

I mean, I'm also on record as thinking Prime has probably reached a narrative completion and the next thing should be separate, which kind of takes care of the concern of it running longer. But I'm also in favor of also trying third-person 3D again, which would also be its own thing.

But I don't think they need to be considered different continuities. There should be enough room for different storylines to occur throughout the timeline, so long as care and consideration is taken in their construction. They don't need to directly connect in order to exist in the same universe. But maybe eventually there'll be something. For the most part, Metroid hasn't told plots where I'd necessarily expect the different subseries to come together to tell a plot beat anyway.

For Proteus Ridley, yeah, I very much doubt it's meant to be connected to Prime at all; it's merely a happy coincidence -- though I would have been perfectly fine just not bringing him back for that encounter, but it is what it is. Though intended connections like that could be, if well-considered, a benefit should the teams work together just a bit more, but for the most part the specific connections probably aren't and shouldn't be necessary.

But this is actually the strongest point against the specific concept I'd thrown together, I think: it's likely to be unfulfilling on its own.

Ehhhhhhhh, as someone who literally got an epileptic seizure playing Metroid Prime. I'd really rather not have something make it required I play the Prime games to understand the plot.

And honestly, the plot not mattering until it does is standard for Sci-Fi pulp which Samus is clearly emulating. I don't want to end up in this comic book lore where I have to know what happens in a series I'm not interested in so I can understand what's going on in another. And yes, I consider Prime its own series because I physically cannot play nor want to risk my own life playing a video game, no matter how many awards it gets.

Metroid is generally pretty plot-light, yeah, and I'm pretty sure I'm on record here suggesting that it doesn't need to be made consistently more plot-heavy and that it's perfectly fine for different subseries to not be intertwined. Even the post above suggests the different narrative lines exist mostly in the background.

Beyond that, the thing with something like the thrown-together example earlier is that neither current line is technically required to understand it. The Kriken, for instance, are involved through one character in a spinoff and would have to be properly introduced, so far removed from any plot that's been introduced that this is itself separate. And the X is really just a generic destructive space virus, where all necessary information should be able to be introduced along with it. It should be understandable all on its own; the structure, though, probably leaves the X bit somewhat unfulfilling.

To go further, I actually think the Kriken might be difficult to properly integrate into Metroid proper (and were really only here because I wanted an actual threat that's not space pirates), though one title with them could theoretically work. Again, they're basically a non-entity as-is, and nobody's losing anything for having not played something else. And the X could just as easily be some other existentially horrifying life form in the harsh void.

Which reminds me ...


I've started playing DMantra's highly regarded Super Metroid ROM hack, V I T A L I T Y. This is among the most popular SM hacks, and I'm glad I've finally gotten around to it. It's been a highly immersive experience so far, featuring darker aesthetics and tone relative to vanilla SM, and seemingly taking heavier inspiration from Alien and H.R. Giger. I'll report back with more detailed impressions after I finish it.

I've thought for a while that a Metroid game could probably do well to lean more into that vibe and aesthetic. Use that as a basis, iterate and twist it for various areas, perhaps add in some Beksinski vibes in some areas. Enemies can get the same treatment.

Give Samus the particular sort of organic metroid-based exoskeleton suit I've had in mind since Fusion, and she could even feel eerily in-place within the setting.

It seems fitting, really.





Also, just because I explain something thoroughly doesn't mean I'm upset or arguing, so I hope it didn't come off that way, just to be clear.
It's unfortunate that it often seems to get interpreted as such. I probably like my tag too much to actually do it, but sometimes it seems it might be a good idea to change the text to "I'm probably less emotionally invested in this conversation than you are" or something, but that probably comes across as a bit aggressive.
 
As for the corrupt GF stuff in 2D, I’d prefer they didn’t take more antagonistic center stage. Can’t say it was very interesting in Other M or Fusion. I’ve thought that the best way to get rid of that is to have a larger epilogue in the inevitable Fusion remake that actually explains what happens to Samus and GF because they seem to have got over it in Dread. Though it’s pretty funny to imagine bioweapon scientists kicking and screaming after Samus blew up yet another planet with X on it.

So the thing with the Galactic Federation serving as an antagonistic force post Fusion is that there are different factors that signify a likelihood of such a continued role.

The first is in what is considered a rogue faction. They're operating outside the parameters, doing absolutely dubious work, and this would continue. Set up as such, they might not actively seek conflict with Samus -- unless for, er, science purposes -- as they likely want to keep a low profile. The thing with them, though, is that it seems unlikely they would remain constrained to one isolated bubble. It would be in their interest to reach their tendrils into the echelons of the Federation military and political structure, which would further potential for them to crop up again. Uncovering and dealing with this, of course, sounds most like the makings of a military-political thriller, which isn't Metroid's forte. This plot, again, is likely best-served in the backround.

But then there's the second factor, which is non-rogue Federation. Samus is destroying government property -- with stories as to why, but likely no evidence --and has become a hybrid monster whose very existence is an existential nightmare, who seems to be something of a loose arm-cannon now, who is kind of dangerous potentially anything. There are investigations and tribunals, and they're likely to not clearly exonerate Samus. Even a non-corrupt Federation could easily see cause to go after her, or at least be wary of her, both from the military branch and the political branch. This is more evidently an active position than the rogue faction, but I do still think it serves Metroid best if it remains mostly in the background.

I'm reminded of Sakamoto's comments following Fusion, that Samus is returned to normal at the end, and how that seemed to shy away from consequences and development, resetting to the status quo. To just completely drop the Federation angle seems to do similar.

In the end, I think it's probably best that the Federation does play some more antagonistic a role in Samus' life going forward, in whatever way they do so, but I also think that plotline is largely best relegated to the background. Perhaps it sets up why Samus is in a particular location or doing a particular task, or perhaps it introduces a time-crunch similar to ye olde Escape Before the Planet Blows Up sequences, or there's some byproduct of Federation actions Samus is dealing with, so it is still present and framing things but doesn't make each game become plot-heavy to deal with it.

The Federation is certainly no immediate terrifying alien threat, that's for sure, though it might be more insidious.
 
I would have been perfectly fine just not bringing him back for that encounter, but it is what it is.
Knowing what we know now I think MS knew they probably wouldn’t get another chance to throw together a Ridley fight since it would’ve either been their last Metroid game or they went on to make a new entry. So even though it makes very little sense to me I can appreciate them taking their shot to make an actual interesting fight for him in the 2D series as his farewell. Just don’t bring him back again! Samus has earned a new era of high level adversary. I still think they could milk the militarized Chozo angle, though it’s just because I’m a huge sucker for finding a rival in your own people. Vergil, Jeanne, Raven Beak, etc. Love that shit

As for the continuities talk, I’m not swayed but I appreciate the high effort response!
 
Rarely do I see art of these two that veers back to when we first met them. Love 'em!
I love how Ridley looks like such a gangly bugger, and Kraid resembles a sentient mound of horse shit. THAT is some faithfulness to their original designs!
 
Knowing what we know now I think MS knew they probably wouldn’t get another chance to throw together a Ridley fight since it would’ve either been their last Metroid game or they went on to make a new entry. So even though it makes very little sense to me I can appreciate them taking their shot to make an actual interesting fight for him in the 2D series as his farewell. Just don’t bring him back again! Samus has earned a new era of high level adversary. I still think they could milk the militarized Chozo angle, though it’s just because I’m a huge sucker for finding a rival in your own people. Vergil, Jeanne, Raven Beak, etc. Love that shit

As for the continuities talk, I’m not swayed but I appreciate the high effort response!

The thing is, the added encounter works just well enough for both continuities that it doesn't seem too egregious. The biggest loss, I think, is in the original ending of a choice not to kill now being followed by another large combat encounter. It had been overall just a different sort of moment for a Metroid to conclude with. But I digress.

The issue of continuity for this series does seem mighty contentious and both sides have had instances that leave me wary, so not even splitting them is guaranteed to leave one unscathed.

Nintendo should ignore the roadmap and make Zero Mission the next GBA addition to the Switch.
Nintendo should just go ahead and release that Metroid 1-4 collection (probably just titled Metroid), with originals and remakes where applicable. Proclaim to people that they can now own the whole saga on Nintendo Switch.



Now show me the real Ridley.

Perfection.
 
Oh it better not be that fucker Mario again. Poor Samus ... always having deal with that POS.
He needs to learn to be quiet every once in awhile. Someone should tell him that you don't need to scream like a manchild each time you jump. I've submitted numerous reports, and the mod team doesn't do anything about him. Sad!
 
To try to clarify (I'm autistic and struggle to communicate what I mean clearly sometimes), I don't really mean Metroid needs to move away from Super as inspiration. I just mean Super as a whole package can't be replicated and I think trying to make a new Super, to recreate that specific Magic, isn't going to work. "Why don't they just make Super again?" isn't a question I want to ask, myself, and I don't want to compare every title to Super, either ("it's good, but it's not Super"). Adding in more exploration would be welcome and I'm not against it.

The OoT comparison was no deeper than "here's another well-regarded game that I do really love but don't think needs to be rigidly recreated even if some fans I've spoken to the past think it should be". I felt like Twilight Princess wanted to be its own thing but also wanted to recreate the OoT Magic and ended up accomplishing neither for me personally. I still like the game well enough, but that's why I brought it up.

Again, I just don't think every new game needs to be in Super's shadow (or OoT's, although I'd say that ship has sailed with BotW by now). They can take inspiration from it but still grow outside of it. Sorry if that was unclear, and I completely understand if you don't agree with me on this point, either. I'm absolutely speaking more in vibes/creative processes than strictly gameplay.
It's okay to view things differently than somebody else. Keep your unique view.

Pretty much all 2D metroid games follow the same structure. Super being regarded as the pinnacle. Your comparison makes sense in one way.
In the other way, you could see Prime, the first foray into 3D as the OoT equivalent. Depends on how you see it. Every Zelda game wanted to be OoT. Every Metroid game wanted to be Super. So yes, but Super didn't pioneer a new formula whereas OoT did for 3D Zelda. Generally 2D and 3D versions of the franchises follow the same patterns. That was until BOTW for Zelda, where we finally got a shakeup.

Yeah I mean I get what you are saying. Time for a modern shakeup. Indeed.
 
He needs to learn to be quiet every once in awhile. Someone should tell him that you don't need to scream like a manchild each time you jump. I've submitted numerous reports, and the mod team doesn't do anything about him. Sad!
So true. And also he's constantly going on about how "It's a Me, Mario!" Like dude. You have a giant M on your hat. Shut the fuck up. Who does that anyways? Who just goes around with a letter on their head?
 
So true. And also he's constantly going on about how "It's a Me, Mario!" Like dude. You have a giant M on your hat. Shut the fuck up. Who does that anyways? Who just goes around with a letter on their head?
He's a narcissist, plain and simple. So tired of Samus (a humble character) having to put up with his stinky ass. It's like having to babysit your snot-nosed little brother. Mario never showers, and always wears the same hat and overalls.
 
Putting Fusion on the service first at least gave us some variant of all the 2D games on the Switch, so I get why they did it. I'm just assuming Zero Mission will drop on the service in close proximity to whatever the next Metroid release is, be it Prime 2 or Prime 4.
 
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@Aurc What were the settings you used to make a pro controller like a Wiimote again? Just cranking the gyro up all the way on the Remaster? I'm going to play some Prime and summon the Prime 4 reveal 🙏
 
@Aurc What were the settings you used to make a pro controller like a Wiimote again? Just cranking the gyro up all the way on the Remaster? I'm going to play some Prime and summon the Prime 4 reveal 🙏
Yup! Basically, just make sure your sensitivity is high enough and comfortable enough. Gyro on the Switch Pro Controller will still never feel anywhere near as good as the Wii controls though, just keep that in mind. Having to move the Pro Controller from side to side doesn't feel ideal, nor does constantly having to recenter the pointer. I still prefer it to using the analog stick, though. I just prefer to play each Metroid Prime game with motion controls. I played them all for the first time on the Wii via MPT, since I never had a GameCube.
 
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