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StarTopic Marvel Cinematic Universe |ST| The Eternal Universe
- Thread starter Lady Bow
- Start date
Prophet64
Moblin
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I couldn't tell if you were just saying you had read the article or if you were telling us to read the article. So I went ahead and read the article. I think the biggest issue is writing characters that are so over-the-top powerfully magically powerful is harder for audiences to connect with, and harder for writers to make us care about the stakes.
For instance in Iron Man:
Movie: Iron Man makes a suit from scratch.
Audience: Geez, I hope he knows what he's doing.
Movie: credits roll
Audience: Geez, I guess he knew what he was doing.
And then you have Dr. Strange:
Movie: Dr. Strange fixes his broken hands by just doing magic instead.
Audience: Must be nice!
Movie: Dr. Strange annoys an evil god using magic to win.
Audience: Must be nice!
Perhaps that's one reason I think Hawkeye worked so well in this current MCU era.
TV Show: A human hero gets entagngled with someone who idolizes them.
Audience: Gee, I hope these two can figure it out and learn from each other to accomplish their goals.
TV Show: They're victorious (sorry spoilers) through teamwork and trick arrows (you still have to hit your targets) and Hawkeye renames his idolizer Hawkeye Junior.
Audience: Hell yeah! This show is hella underrated!
robertman2
Chain Chomp
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Yeah, I was saying I had read it myself
Prophet64
Moblin
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I had zero interest in Marvel comics or movies (aside from Raimi's Spiderman) before I saw the trailer for Iron Man. I went "oh dang, he's a rich car guy who mechanics himself into a superhero? kickass." And it was indeed kickass.
Captain America: "oh dang, it's a period war film but as a what-if-superheroes-existed movie? kickass." And it was indeed kickass.
Fast-forward to now: I have no idea what I was supposed to like about Secret Wars. They had a series where a main chunk of the premise was Samuel L Jackson and Don Cheadle kinda hating on each other and managed to make it uninteresting. I simply don't understand.
And full disclosure: I loved Age of Ultron ffs
That said, I loved WandaVision, Hawkeye, and Ms. Marvel. But those felt more like character pieces than a lot of the other modern stuff, which I think was what I liked about the early films too.
TV Show: Let's put some mac and cheese in front of Florence Pugh.
Me: Gee, I wonder what Florence Pugh thinks of mac and cheese
TV Show: Florence Pugh eats the mac and cheese (sorry spoilers)
Me: Hell yeah! This show is hella underrated!
(that's not that far from accurate, actually)
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yall
Jahranimo
Starman
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Didn't wanna ruin the surpriseActually insane you spoiler tagged this
It seriously made me choke on my pasta
Jahranimo
Starman
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Yup! So I'm curious how this will work for them.
Catsylvania
Koopa
yall
I wasn’t expecting someone casually getting shot in the face.
And Hulu? I guess Disney/Marvel want more people to see this. I recall reading it was running into production issues. I wonder whether that was sorted out or if the reports were untrue.
More of Vincent D’Onofrio’s Wilson Fisk is welcome. Perfect casting.
Jahranimo
Starman
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Me either! :O
I do recall those production issues initially, but it seems they may have sorted them out. I honestly think just about every MCU live-action project has had some production issues here and there. At the very least, I hope this show tells its own story, is entertaining enough, and leads into the Daredevil series whenever that does actually come out.
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holy shit yes
I thought this was on ice for a while because of Renner's issues so this caught me totally off guard. Jesus this looks rad. Right after my big rant about how little the current MCU stuff is exciting me. Goddamn.
They did it with Andor and Secret Invasion too. The more "gritty" D+ stuff has also been showing on Hulu (but for limited time only) I assume because they figure Hulu would be more closely aligned with the demographics of those shows. Which I know is another way of saying "they want more people to see this" but still.
And honestly I agree with it. I've been a big fan of Hulu since the beginning (back when netflix was the cool kid) and the stuff their partnership with FX has been churning out is some of the best television I think I've ever seen. I think Andor did have a more Hulu vibe and Echo definitely looks to. Disney's probably just looking to take advantage of the fact that they now have two streaming services (especially now that they bought out the rest of Comcast's stake), one being more geared to kids and one more towards adults. Honestly if the buyout had come sooner I wouldn't have been surprised if their more violent or gritty MCU/SW stuff had ended up solely being Hulu series from the beginning. I remember some conversations around like "how are Deadpool and Daredevil gonna work being on Disney Plus which is mostly a family service?" and Hulu woulda solved that real quick.
Anyway goddamn I'm excited for Echo.
Prophet64
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Damn. I was already looking forward to this after my rewatch of Hawkeye, but good lord this looks even better than I could have hoped for.
Looks like the creator and head writer, Marion Dayre, worked on Better Call Saul before this so that's pretty good. I assume never actually watched that show just know from reputation.
Pretty excited about this. Excellent trailer.
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I was a staunch Brie Larson supporter when the first one came out and even I gotta say I'm more hyped for Kamala to have her movie than I am over anything else that might be there.
Jahranimo
Starman
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She's like the perfect casting for Miss Marvel! and I like Brie Larson too, but I just want Cap Marvel to get more fleshed out. I have high expectations.
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I haven't kept up with MCU stuff in ages but I'm watching stuff here and there while doing exercises. Watched the first episode of Secret Invasion and there's already some extremely weird decisions here.
First killing G'iah's mother off screen and then also killing Maria Hill right after her and Fury reunite and have their heart-to-heart is a bold way to tell the audience that there will be zero emotional stakes here.
Christo750
Source of the Right Arm
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someone's trying to sell more tickets lol.
as someone who has been a little out of the MCU loop but has seen trailers, this looks like it's selling a completely different movie than that first trailer. why is the avengers theme being reprised? i get the allegory of showing tony and steve that they want carol, monica, and kamala to be the start of the new avengers, but really this is a very desperate attempt to get people to see this movie.
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I'm guessing it's old news, but I only just saw The Marvels trailer that's currently playing in UK cinemas where half it seems to be explaining who the main three characters are using clips from the D+ shows feels like Disney are having a lot of difficulty with pre-sales, or are at least very worried people don't know who Monica and Kamala are so might not go.
Catsylvania
Koopa
Post-Endgame content has been less consistent in quality which may be affecting pre-sales. Admittedly, I’m part of Marvel’s problem because I simply don’t go to theaters anymore unless someone drags me out.
While general audiences may not know Monica and Kamala, the bigger issue in my view is that Carol has been mostly absent since Endgame and she was barely in that movie. Just a couple cameos. Even a supporting role in a Phase 4 movie would have gone a long way. When Ant-Man and the Wasp released, Scott had just appeared in Captain America: Civil War. Looking at the Phase 4 slate, I don’t know where Marvel could have slotted her in that made any sense. Maybe Doctor Strange and The Multiverse of Madness?
I’m still a Captain Marvel believer, and I’m still hoping, at some point, this happens:
Should The Marvels underperform, I hope Marvel doesn’t take the wrong lessons from it. Some of the discourse I’ve been reading has been really gross and sexist.
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Gross, sexist discourse was almost all I heard around the first Capt. Marvel as well. Not shocked to see it hasn't gone away. I want to see the movie do well just to spite the people who hate Larson and the character of Danvers in general, but the last one made a billion dollars and they still insisted Disney actually bought up a bunch of tickets themselves to sandbag the movie and that ackshually hardly anyone went to see it (even though my theater was packed with a bunch of ladies and young girls and I was proud as hell to see that) so even if it does well they'll just decide it really didn't.
Oh well. I'm excited to see it, and I'm ready to enjoy it. That's what counts.
Edit: speak of the devil: I just saw someone say reviews are out so I went to look, one of the negative reviews said "this movie was made for preteen girls and not real comicbook fans." Fuck these people.
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PixelKnight
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I have to admit I haven’t followed the TV programmes, but I do remember LeBeau from when I read Marvel comics in the 80s, and all the clips I’ve seen of Kamala look awesome, so it’s a film I’m happy to watch. I hope they can catch people like me up but hey, if I care about the links and continuity etc I guess that’s what spending a few quid on Disney+ for a month to catch up first is for.
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I'm seeing a bunch of memes on twitter about Feige at Brie Larson's door at 12:01am going "quick time for the press tour"
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Seriously though, what are the odds that Larson, Vellani, and Parris immediately bump whatever guests were scheduled to be on Kimmel tonight now that the strike is over?
Jahranimo
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Probably next to nothing since there's apparently a crisis at Marvel Studios /s
Honestly though....I doubt it? Unless whoever they currently have cancels on their own which I don't know how common that is or not with late night shows.
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I mean, Kimmel bumps Matt Damon every damn night so it's apparently pretty common
Seriously though with Kimmel's show being Disney-owned it seems they bend over backwards to make sure all the big Star Wars and MCU cast blowouts are on that late night show in particular, so that's why I wonder if Disney might make the decision that Kimmel has to bump whoever's on in order to fit the Marvels.
Which honestly I'm a bit in favor of because Iman Vellani deserves a bigass spotlight goddammit
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The strike ending means this human ball of sunshine can finally speak about his latest work:
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Welp
it wasn't Kimmel, but here we go:
deadline.com
it wasn't Kimmel, but here we go:
Marvel Stars Tom Hiddleston & Brie Larson Head To ‘The Tonight Show’ As Late-Night Adjusts Following End Of Actors Strike
Late-night TV has had plenty of superstars appearing since the end of the writers strike. But the end of the actors strike is another story. Stars will now be able to promote films and series that …
deadline.com
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Okay I was about to get irritable about how the whole season seemed to be about nothing but overturning the end of the first season (and therefore kind of a cheap way to utilize time travel for a plot) but then I saw the branches of time were starting to be represented as actual branches, like wooden tree branches, and as Loki kept pulling more of them together I was going "no... no they're not gonna... no fuckin way..."
and then they did.
The ending alone actually salvaged the season for me. Epic origin story for Yggdrasill, damn.
and then they did.
The ending alone actually salvaged the season for me. Epic origin story for Yggdrasill, damn.
Magic-Man
Perseus Jackson
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It's fitting that Disney is a theme park company because holy shit the MCU has been a roller coaster this year in terms of quality. On one hand, you have Guardians 3 and Loki Season 2. On the other, you have Quantumania, Secret Invasion, and The Marvels (granted the last one is apparently just okay instead of outright bad but still). What the hell happened to the quality control this year?
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Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it has to do with the weird production revelations in this article we were talking about a few weeks ago:
Marvel Shocker: Studio Realizes They Need To Make TV Shows For Television
And it only took five years!
decider.com
Plus the fact that whoever the shortlived Disney CEO was between Bob Iger and Bob Iger was said to have been demanding a really overstuffed release schedule without enough time for projects to breathe. They're walking that back now (and walking back the weird production decisions that were outlined in that article) so that mixed with the beating they've been taking both at the box office and critically should force a re-evaluation and attempted course correct. To say nothing of the fact that the Jonathan Majors issue has reportedly got them talking about backup plans that'd scrap and redirect the rest of the whole current saga.
So uh, yeah, they ain't doin so hot right now. But my hope is that they recede back into more of the scrappy underdog mentality that Favreau and Feige kicked things of with, rather than the arrogant "lookit us we did Endgame" approach they seem to have been taking lately.
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Very busy night for me.
I enjoyed most of this film. It was definitely silly at times, but it was a fun watch none the less. I didn't necessarily mind the run time, but some things were rushed. The first ~20 minutes was total whiplash. After that, things settled down a bit, but it still felt like there could have been more development between Danvers and Rambo. The take down of the Supreme Intelligence was rushed. That could have been a perfect 5~10 minute intro to set up Dar-Benn's arc.
Some stuff was unsettled. Like, did the water planet lose all of its water or what? What happened to the second magic bangle at the very end? Kamala was only wearing one after the climax. The "why" explanation for the three heroes' powers connecting never really came to fruitation either.
The Valkyrie cameo was sadly nothing special. If anything, it felt like she was phoning it in to be honest.
The final scene with Kamala recruiting Kate Bishop was frickin amazing. Give me the Young Avengers film asap!
Post credit scene with Beast/Kelsey Grammer was awesome as well. I'm glad that I didn't spoil myself beforehand. The theater got a kick out of it as well.
Overall, I give it a 7/10. Probably in the lower-middle section of my MCU rankings, but still decent.
Some stuff was unsettled. Like, did the water planet lose all of its water or what? What happened to the second magic bangle at the very end? Kamala was only wearing one after the climax. The "why" explanation for the three heroes' powers connecting never really came to fruitation either.
The Valkyrie cameo was sadly nothing special. If anything, it felt like she was phoning it in to be honest.
The final scene with Kamala recruiting Kate Bishop was frickin amazing. Give me the Young Avengers film asap!
Post credit scene with Beast/Kelsey Grammer was awesome as well. I'm glad that I didn't spoil myself beforehand. The theater got a kick out of it as well.
Overall, I give it a 7/10. Probably in the lower-middle section of my MCU rankings, but still decent.
Fantastic finale, but I am very confused because.....
Unless I missed something big time, it doesn't feel like this was a big set up for Kang to be the big target for all of the Avengers. The story largely felt like a complete ending for pretty much every character's arc. So I'm led to believe that either 1- this exec saw a completely different episode from what we just did (which I don't see how that it possible thanks to the strikes) or 2- the exec was blowing smoke out of their ass.
I'm not saying that Majors can't still be the big badee, but what I just saw didn't set him for the next Avengers or anything.
Unless I missed something big time, it doesn't feel like this was a big set up for Kang to be the big target for all of the Avengers. The story largely felt like a complete ending for pretty much every character's arc. So I'm led to believe that either 1- this exec saw a completely different episode from what we just did (which I don't see how that it possible thanks to the strikes) or 2- the exec was blowing smoke out of their ass.
I'm not saying that Majors can't still be the big badee, but what I just saw didn't set him for the next Avengers or anything.
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First of all, they confirmed Loki 2 was one of the few (if not only) MCU shows that didn't undergo reshoots, so what's on the screen is what was initially envisioned. Plus they wrapped long before the strike so I'm pretty sure the lack of reshoots was not because of the strike but rather because they genuinely were satisfied with the product.
Second, the only thing I can figure as far as how important the final episode made Kang is.. maybe because Immortus (I really don't wanna call him "He Who Remains" ffs) dropped that little line of "My variants are already out there..." and because there was some heavy talk in this episode about how Kang variants will be waging all-out war and destruction if Loki allows the multiple timelines to continue to exist (which Loki then did). So that "dealmaker" might be under the impression that if Kang doesn't continue to be The Bad of the rest of the arc, it'd be an extremely awkward thread to abandon since we as an audience know what they're talking about in Loki is what's planned for the future of the whole franchise (which is arguably the only reason it even holds any weight in Loki).
Granted, with how fast and loose they've played the "variants from different universes" angle, I could easily see a pivot where they decide one (or several) of Kang's variants turns out to be Dr. Doom and then they go all-in on Fantastic 4. Or they could decide some super sci-fi bullshit happened and all the Kang variants joined and morphed into a single, massive, planet-eating being and then they still go all-in on Fantastic 4. Kang in the comics has ties to the Richards family anyway! And before Kang was announced as the Next Biggie I was genuinely expecting Doom and Galactus to be this saga's Loki and Thanos, it just kinda made sense and it possibly still could.
It's sorta funny: they've written themselves into a situation where the "multiple universes" angle makes all the stakes and character sacrifices and plotlines kinda bullshit, but at the same time it means the disastrous casting issue they're facing can just as easily be bullshitted away with "because variants."
Second, the only thing I can figure as far as how important the final episode made Kang is.. maybe because Immortus (I really don't wanna call him "He Who Remains" ffs) dropped that little line of "My variants are already out there..." and because there was some heavy talk in this episode about how Kang variants will be waging all-out war and destruction if Loki allows the multiple timelines to continue to exist (which Loki then did). So that "dealmaker" might be under the impression that if Kang doesn't continue to be The Bad of the rest of the arc, it'd be an extremely awkward thread to abandon since we as an audience know what they're talking about in Loki is what's planned for the future of the whole franchise (which is arguably the only reason it even holds any weight in Loki).
Granted, with how fast and loose they've played the "variants from different universes" angle, I could easily see a pivot where they decide one (or several) of Kang's variants turns out to be Dr. Doom and then they go all-in on Fantastic 4. Or they could decide some super sci-fi bullshit happened and all the Kang variants joined and morphed into a single, massive, planet-eating being and then they still go all-in on Fantastic 4. Kang in the comics has ties to the Richards family anyway! And before Kang was announced as the Next Biggie I was genuinely expecting Doom and Galactus to be this saga's Loki and Thanos, it just kinda made sense and it possibly still could.
It's sorta funny: they've written themselves into a situation where the "multiple universes" angle makes all the stakes and character sacrifices and plotlines kinda bullshit, but at the same time it means the disastrous casting issue they're facing can just as easily be bullshitted away with "because variants."
terribleidiot
Piranha Plant
I think the big problem with the Marvels is they'e done such a poor job of establishing Carol's personality. You can break down a lot characters in one word. Thor? Himbo. Iron Man? Egotist etc. But Carol is such a mystery. They did her so dirty in her first film by having her have amnesia for most of it. Carol is sort of a blank slate.
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Cap 4's reshoots being longer than the initial filming is absolutely wild. What is happening over at Marvel and Disney, man.
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Never really understood the whole angle of "They can't use Kang now because Majors fucked up big time"... if we can have Aligator Loki, why not a Kang variant that doesn't look like Majors?
That aside, I also feel like this episode basically fixed the Kang issues. Timely never gets the TVA handbook, Loki's now in the middle of the world tree, none of the other HWR variants are aware of the TVA and that one causing issues was handled by the 616 people (Ant-Man reference I suppose). It's a bit rough but it works well enough. Though I do wonder if they actually had more stuff filmed and dropped it, given the lack of both mid- or post-credit scene here.
That aside, I also feel like this episode basically fixed the Kang issues. Timely never gets the TVA handbook, Loki's now in the middle of the world tree, none of the other HWR variants are aware of the TVA and that one causing issues was handled by the 616 people (Ant-Man reference I suppose). It's a bit rough but it works well enough. Though I do wonder if they actually had more stuff filmed and dropped it, given the lack of both mid- or post-credit scene here.
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Beanstar40
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They definitely are well aware that the reception to their content has been much cooler than it used to be. I think they are trying to course correct. Bob Iger seems to be essentially allowing them to remake the movie where as chapek would have shipped it as is, which is why we got stinkers like ant man 3, and the less stinky but still so-so the marvels.
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three funny things in episodes 2-6 of Secret Invasion:
Anyway, I have no idea where they're going to take it from here. I guess both The Marvels and Armor Wars are supposed to be continuations? Maybe?
- G'iah's fakeout death was immediately spoiled by the preview thumbnail of episode 5
- Fury got an actual suit-up sequence at the end of episode 5
- The way radiation works (or how people think it works) at New Skrullos is just completely random
Anyway, I have no idea where they're going to take it from here. I guess both The Marvels and Armor Wars are supposed to be continuations? Maybe?
We'll see how that works out for them. The quality has definitely declined but I don't think there's any way they will manage to get the overall narrative back on track unless they just cancel everything that doesn't have a big name attached to it.
Prophet64
Moblin
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Watched the finale of Loki. Probably the best episode of the season and it even got a laugh out of me
Besides that, overall the show was a letdown. Just next to zero character development. I feel like Loki by the end of season 1 would have done the same thing as Loki at the end of 2. Just had to wade through a bunch of banal plot for him to arrive at the final problem (through character power up convenience:
Edit: How noble of me to take the last post on the page.
When Loki is Micromanaging Victor Timely, "Oh, one last thing." Also besides that I wish when Loki came back from "Centuries Later" he would be geeking out about the science and engineering that he learned in a way to show how much he may have just changed off camera and not just having plot convenience knowledge now.
Besides that, overall the show was a letdown. Just next to zero character development. I feel like Loki by the end of season 1 would have done the same thing as Loki at the end of 2. Just had to wade through a bunch of banal plot for him to arrive at the final problem (through character power up convenience:
"I can control time slipping now" and "I can just hold the multiple timelines together myself I guess as long as the dramatic music rises in crescendo."
Edit: How noble of me to take the last post on the page.
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