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StarTopic Marvel Cinematic Universe |ST| The Eternal Universe

Caught the ending. Finale had good moments in an otherwise ok episode.
The Gravik-Giah fight was pretty cool, but Gravik didn't last very long for supposedly being a super scroll. The heel turn by POTUS felt like whiplash, especially since we barely saw it explored besides a few jump cuts. The hospital bit didn't feel that climatic, and almost cartoonish how the secret service was portrayed as incompetent.

Overall, the series was so-so at best. It didn't make sense as a TV show, and it probably would have been better off as a film. We know why it was a show though. That has been beaten to death. The pacing was not consistent for a six episode show. Samuel L Jackson did a great job as he always does. I'm still not happy that Talos and Maria Hill died in not so grand fashion. This show probably fits in the lower half of my rankings compared to the other D+ shows.

Looking forward, it seems like we have a few power brokers on the board now with Olivia Coleman and Julia Louis-Dreyfus. I'm guessing that they will collide at some point?
 
20 points lower than She-Hulk, eh? Yeah, well, She-Hulk was good.

Secret Invasion wasn’t the globe trotting, twisty conspiracy laden action thriller I expected. It didn’t do any of the [character]-was-a-Skrull-the-whole-time thing well, and in my humble opinion, it killed off the wrong characters and unceremoniously so.

When Disney/Marvel announced these shows, I figured it was intended to give characters more time to develop deeper, more emotional arcs. Only Loki and Hawkeye do this really well; Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk do okay. Secret Invasion completely fails in this regard. We’re introduced to a lot of characters with relationships the show doesn’t have time to explore. Worse, it had the pieces and chose not to use them.

Fridging Maria Hill, to me, was Secret Invasion’s greatest sin. The show tried to fill in some of Fury’s backstory with relationships to two new characters (i.e. Gravik and Vara) yet Hill was like right there.

Explore the protégé/mentor relationship especially given Fury futzed off for how long post-Blip. The writers wouldn’t have had to do as much legwork since she’s been in the MCU since 2012. And if they really wanted to murder-death-kill Hill, have her sacrifice herself to save Fury. Then, Fury would have to grapple with the guilt of failing another subordinate. Could have had a cool Coulson cameo too.

Secret Invasion did better here with some nice back and forth between Talos and Fury then Talos has the most wet noodle death since well, Maria Hill a few episodes earlier.

I keep reading that G’iah is now the most powerful character in the MCU. The impression I got was while she gained new abilities, she isn’t as powerful as the hosts those powers came from. For example, G’iah used Mantis’ sleep ability which barely did anything to Gravik. Maybe it was because he’s a Super Skrull too. Then again, Mantis effectively used that power on Ego and Thanos. Without more info, I still think Captain Marvel overpowers G’iah.

Secret Invasion spoilers without context:
IMG-0275.png
 
Loki looks good. I hope that after all they're working on now, Marvel reels it in a bit. 3 movies and 2 shows a year would be ideal for higher quality content. There's way too much going on right now and too many "set ups" that will probably be big nothings if they wanna clean the Universe up.
 
Loki looks good. I hope that after all they're working on now, Marvel reels it in a bit. 3 movies and 2 shows a year would be ideal for higher quality content. There's way too much going on right now and too many "set ups" that will probably be big nothings if they wanna clean the Universe up.
In a roundabout way, the writers and actors strikes will certainly help lessen the Marvel fatigue many are feeling.
 
In a roundabout way, the writers and actors strikes will certainly help lessen the Marvel fatigue many are feeling.
I honestly want the strike to mean that Marvel cuts a lot of the things that really didn't need to be made. I know Echo won't get cut, but what? Echo needed a show? Anyways, let me clean up the MCU and run the Mutant Saga :)
 
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Thor 1- Loki seemingly dies
Avengers - Loki steals the tesseract
Thor Dark World - Loki seemingly dies
Thor Ragnarok - Loki steals the tesseract
Avengers Infinity War - Loki seemingly dies
Avengers Endgame - Loki steals the tesseract
Loki Season 1 - Loki seemingly dies

Loki Season 2 will have him steal the tesseract. It is written
 
Chukwudi Iwuji plays such an incredible villain in GOTG3. Really makes the stuff they've done so far with Kang look like such amateur hour nonsense. What a fantastic sendoff to the Guardians.
 
Am I wrong for thinking that GotG 3 might be one of the best movies in the franchise? Cause that shit rocked. How can Marvel go from an absolute disaster like Quantumania to this?
 
How can Marvel go from an absolute disaster like Quantumania to this?
From what I've read, Quantumania was focus-grouped to death, with a lot of crap being altered through production, even going as far as having the ending itself drastically changed (Scott was apparently supposed to, like, not make it back). Also the movie spends a significant amount of effort trying to hide that the baddie is Kang, with a bunch of dialogue that goes nowhere because they can't say his name because mysteryyyy and like "what's the secret Janet is hidingggg" only to have all that completely undermined by the marketing because suddenly Majors was a Big Sexy Deal™ (and now that's biting them heavily on the ass). So they didn't spend near enough time fleshing out who Kang was because they were too busy hiding him, and then they chickened out on what should've been a more impactful ending. Those two things alone I think were a pretty heavy weight on the finished product, even without accounting for the sub-par dialogue (I also spent the whole movie feeling miffed that they recast Cassie but that doesn't speak to the quality of the movie as much as to my personal experience with it). I was so damn excited for it too, the trailers looked great. But then it did a plop.

Whereas I'm pretty sure Marvel just let Gunn do whatever the hell he wanted, maybe because of the success of the other Guardians films or the success of Suicide Squad or the oopsie way in which he was temporarily fired or some combination of all of them maybe? 😅 Dunno.

Also I was a little pissy that the end said "STAR-LORD WILL RETURN." He was pretty much the only Guardian I didn't want to see return. That character drives me up the wall, I swear.

Either way I'm finally not very excited about the future of Marvel anymore. And that's bad because I was a holdout for a long time. I liked the Eternals, I loved Shang-Chi, I adored WandaVision, I was genuinely jazzed for where Marvel was going in a post-Downey/Evans era. But Quantumania and Secret Invasion just took all the wind out of it for me.

The only thing I'm looking forward to now is The Marvels and that's 90% my excitement for Iman Vellani having a big-screen movie and 10% wanting conservatives to feel pain. 🤷‍♂️
 
Am I wrong for thinking that GotG 3 might be one of the best movies in the franchise? Cause that shit rocked. How can Marvel go from an absolute disaster like Quantumania to this?

GotG 3 didn't get as much love as it probably deserves because of the current mood with the MCU as a whole, but I would probably rank it in my Top 10 for MCU films if I did a list. The film has some faults, but the overall story was really good.
 
Wanted to bring this thread back to life with Loki Season 2 Episode 1 out. I thought it was really good and reintroduced us to the TVA and the immediate aftermath of Season 1.

Has anyone watched it?
 
Wanted to bring this thread back to life with Loki Season 2 Episode 1 out. I thought it was really good and reintroduced us to the TVA and the immediate aftermath of Season 1.

Has anyone watched it?
I have! I'm curious to see where it goes, but I gotta admit it felt a little weird to have Loki's time displacement just get solved in one episode after being the big cliffhanger for S1. Felt like a bit of a cop-out but at the same time it's been said this was the first full MCU season to not go through reshoots, as the exact story they envisioned was what they shot and released. So hopefully that sort of confidence in vision ends up reflected in the show.

Also, not related to Loki but I thought this was interesting:


tl;dr: MCU shows have mostly been produced without showrunners this whole time, basically being a tug-of-war between writers/creators and the directors/executives as to who has creative control at different points of production. But when She-Hulk ended up accidentally having a showrunner (though not in name) due to covid restrictions, they saw what a difference it made to have creative consistency throughout the production and are now revamping their entire TV pipeline to work more like, ya know, TV production, after Secret Invasion was a horrific mess.

Also a little bombshell dropped in the middle of that article: Daredevil Born Again has been scrapped!
 
I have! I'm curious to see where it goes, but I gotta admit it felt a little weird to have Loki's time displacement just get solved in one episode after being the big cliffhanger for S1. Felt like a bit of a cop-out but at the same time it's been said this was the first full MCU season to not go through reshoots, as the exact story they envisioned was what they shot and released. So hopefully that sort of confidence in vision ends up reflected in the show.

Also, not related to Loki but I thought this was interesting:


tl;dr: MCU shows have mostly been produced without showrunners this whole time, basically being a tug-of-war between writers/creators and the directors/executives as to who has creative control at different points of production. But when She-Hulk ended up accidentally having a showrunner (though not in name) due to covid restrictions, they saw what a difference it made to have creative consistency throughout the production and are now revamping their entire TV pipeline to work more like, ya know, TV production, after Secret Invasion was a horrific mess.

Also a little bombshell dropped in the middle of that article: Daredevil Born Again has been scrapped!
More accurately, Daredevil Born Again is getting Metroid Prime 4'd
 
anyways wonder how long until we see something like on the movie side, especially with the poor tracking for The Marvels
 
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I'm sorry but what
Yep! Looks like what they'd do is have the creator and writers do all the story stuff, and once they had a shooting script they'd essentially hand-off control of the project to the director, who would then be in control along with the studio executives. It led to some messy, messy BTS clashes and in the case of Secret Invasion, a producer literally leaving production midway and likely leaving Marvel soon.

Until.. well, the article sums it up nicely:
Marvel actually got to see what they were missing out on by nixing the showrunner role and handing control to movie execs during post-production on She-Hulk: Attorney at Law. Jessica Gao developed the show and ran the writers’ room and, as per usual with Marvel shows, handed control over to director Kat Coiro when the Tatiana Maslany-led series got in front of cameras. But due to the restrictions of producing a show during COVID, Gao was brought back on board to oversee post-production — kinda like what a showrunner does on pretty much every other TV show. This gave She-Hulk a “creative throughline,” in the eyes of Marvel brass, and it resulted in — despite what haters want you to think — a well-received show that was more watched than Moon Knight and Hawkeye.


More accurately, Daredevil Born Again is getting Metroid Prime 4'd
Well yeah but arguably Metroid Prime 4 was scrapped too 😅

Sure production's being totally rebooted and some form of a Daredevil show will release eventually but the writers and directors were fired and everything they've written and shot is in the shredder now. Which is.. like.. big.
 
Yep! Looks like what they'd do is have the creator and writers do all the story stuff, and once they had a shooting script they'd essentially hand-off control of the project to the director, who would then be in control along with the studio executives. It led to some messy, messy BTS clashes and in the case of Secret Invasion, a producer literally leaving production midway and likely leaving Marvel soon.

Until.. well, the article sums it up nicely:
Wow, almost like there's a reason why tv shows have a showrunner.
 
Loki Season 2 Episode 1 was excellent. No notes. Looking forward to the rest of the season.

The Marvels and Thunderbolts are the only upcoming MCU projects I have any interest in.
I had to look up what’s even on the docket for Phase 5. Yeah, besides those two, I have Deadpool 3 on my list. Not the biggest Deadpool fan, but I’m there for Hugh Jackman in the yellow suit. Also, really hoping Zazie Beetz is merely throwing everyone off the trail by denying she’s returning, and Domino is actually in the movie.
 
The Marvels and Thunderbolts are the only upcoming MCU projects I have any interest in.
I'm really interested in the upcoming project "X-Men For Fuck's Sake Marvel Please Stop Dragging Your Fuckin Feet" but I don't think it has a solid release date yet.

Also, really hoping Zazie Beetz is merely throwing everyone off the trail by denying she’s returning, and Domino is actually in the movie.
If she starts being paraded around on both Jimmys' late night shows to swear she isn't in the movie then I think we'll be able to rest easy.
 
Just read up on some of the rumored Daredevil: Born Again story leaks, and jeez.... yeah they're making a good choice. Fans would have been ANGRY.

Foggy and potentially Karen were killed off in the first episode and it causes Matt to retire. Hence the whole rumor about him not suiting up until episode 4. What the fuck?
 
Just read up on some of the rumored Daredevil: Born Again story leaks, and jeez.... yeah they're making a good choice. Fans would have been ANGRY.

Foggy and potentially Karen were killed off in the first episode and it causes Matt to retire. Hence the whole rumor about him not suiting up until episode 4. What the fuck?
OMG I have friends who would've taken to the streets for that shit
 
I'm interested in Secrets Wars, but only if the Raimi rumors are true, and he has complete control

A multiverse of heroes, all having close up shots while they scream in horror at stuff!
 
I'm interested in Secrets Wars, but only if the Raimi rumors are true, and he has complete control

A multiverse of heroes, all having close up shots while they scream in horror at stuff!
whoa whoa whoa

the rumors are that Raimi is gonna direct??

that's a shock considering the Russos said they'd return to the MCU for that story.
 
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Just read up on some of the rumored Daredevil: Born Again story leaks, and jeez.... yeah they're making a good choice. Fans would have been ANGRY.

Foggy and potentially Karen were killed off in the first episode and it causes Matt to retire. Hence the whole rumor about him not suiting up until episode 4. What the fuck?
The only way Marvel could have justified this would have been if Daredevil: Born Again took place between Infinity War and Endgame. It’d give Matt Murdock a crisis of faith that still fits in with the MCU, explain the gap from the Netflix show (which could be soft canon), and still open the door for Deborah Ann Woll and Elden Henson to return.

That said, if that wasn’t the case and Marvel chose to fridge another fan favorite female character (and Foggy because fuck it, why not?), I’d have a lot of trouble watching the show. Secret Invasion was hard to keep watching after that nonsense and it didn’t get better…

Look, I won’t celebrate people losing their jobs, but if you’re a writer and you still resort to bad tropes to give characters motivation, consider a career change. Maybe try accounting or cheese making.
 
The only way Marvel could have justified this would have been if Daredevil: Born Again took place between Infinity War and Endgame. It’d give Matt Murdock a crisis of faith that still fits in with the MCU, explain the gap from the Netflix show (which could be soft canon), and still open the door for Deborah Ann Woll and Elden Henson to return.
There was actually a lot of speculation after the casting announcements that that was exactly what was happening.

Actually now that I think about it I wonder if that was legit and was simply misinterpreted by the rumormongers as "they were killed." I mean, how do you just do that to a couple fan favorite characters???

Secret Invasion

oh yeah huh
 
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I don’t know about y’all, but I sure could go for some key lime pie right about now.

Not bad, I liked it. First episode was better. Season 2 feels more self-contained/episodic so far. I’m hoping it all comes together by the end.
 
So far not really good at all. Episode one is saved by OB and Ke Huy Quan. But episode 2 just felt like I had missed an episode. I literally didn't understand the stakes really in many scenes. Poorly written in both that sense and the dialogue was pretty awful. Direction did not do much to elevate it and the actors just seemed like they were just getting through it too (not their fault the script really is pretty bad here). Also, did Loki have that walk before the show? He had it in season 1 but did he always walk like that in the movies?

On another note though, I had rewatched Hawkeye and have to say that it is really pretty darn good overall. Probably my favorite MCU show besides Daredevil if that counts.
 
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I love the TVA sets. It's like a 1970s BBC sci-fi show if it had a budget of a million 1970s bucks an episode.
 
Wait was that the THX sound??? 🤣

Wait what? When? Lol

Also Episode 3 was easily the best episode yet, and one of my favorites between both seasons period! Everyone did their thing and the intrigue of how Episode 4 will go

I think since Marvel let the press see the first four episodes and talk about it prior to this season's debut next week will be a slight conclusion of one problem but the beginning of the finale... if that makes sense.
 
Best episode of the season so far, which is saying only that. Less aimless and confusing than the previous two, but still not understanding Sylvie's whole motivation outside of simply kill all the Kang variants. The actor is not given alot to work with unfortunately. Enjoyed seeing Renslayer in this.

Speculation on what Ms. Minutes was alluding to at the end, so possible big spoiler:

Is Renslayer a Kang Variant?
I like it if so.
 
Speculation on what Ms. Minutes was alluding to at the end, so possible big spoiler:

Is Renslayer a Kang Variant?
I like it if so.
ooooooooooh I had seen some talk that a big fan theory surrounding this episode might feed into a potential escape route for Marvel with the whole Jonathan Majors problem. I hadn't considered what you just said but that might be what they were talking about, shit
 
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Yo, fuck the end of that episode. Now I have to wait a whole week in real time to find out what happens.

But actually, it was awesome.

I need to organize my thoughts. I had a few theories, and I think they’re still in play. Full disclosure: I’m a walking encyclopedia of freezing cold takes.
 
Yo, fuck the end of that episode. Now I have to wait a whole week in real time to find out what happens.

But actually, it was awesome.

I need to organize my thoughts. I had a few theories, and I think they’re still in play. Full disclosure: I’m a walking encyclopedia of freezing cold takes.
Will Loki and friends survive?
Is this the end of the MCU?
Is OB a Kang Variant?
Find out this week on Loki!

This season feels really insubstantial. Just alot of random plotlines that go nowhere and nothing makes sense. It's like watching someone's poorly written dream. The characters are just spitting out fantasy realm gobbledygook but nothing for the actors to really challenge their characters in believable ways. Then the music changes to indicate a big character moment that's unearned and put in places where they might get away with it. Feels like this had reshoots after big rewrites to change things because considering they teased season 2 in the credits of season 1 I assumed they would have had a much stronger concept going in, but this so far is utter nonsense with next to zero character development.
 
All I'm hearing now is:

I was pretty tempted to say "Find out next week on Dragonball Z!" But then I felt it was too cliche and brainstormed different things and none were funnier so then I decided maybe Loki was ridiculous enough to be included as the joke about itself. Like a comment on how wheel-spinningly bonkers the show has become. But yes Dragonball Z was absolutely playing in my head with the cadence of everything else.

Trust the process, etc.

I predict season 3 will open like this:
Previously on Loki
"We need save the Time Loom from blowing up!"
CUT TO: Time Loom blowing up.
CUT TO: Loki, Morbius, Sylvia, Renslayer, and OB all drinking mimosas on the beach and having a good time.
CUT TO: A new Kang Variant played by Nic Cage emerges from a portal door.
KANG: Did somebody order a Time Loom?
Music crescendo. Loki and gang lineup in fighting stances like the ending to Mortal Kombat.
NARRARATOR: And now for the continuation of Hell's Kitchen.
LOKI: We don't want any trouble. We don't need a Time Loom. Granted we destroyed the last one by accident, but everything seems to have worked out so we'll just stick with this as the new status quo. Basically no different than the last status quo. I guess it is still then in function just the status quo as it has always been.
NIC CAGE KANG: You know the old saying, Loki, do you not? "When you change directions, you look a different way."
LOKI: I don't follow... I mean I get it, very clever, but in this context... I'm not following. And I never will.
(LOKI busts out his phantom green blades, and the horns too, why not)
NIC CAGE KANG: Well then. We'll just see about that now. Shall we?
(LOKI and the gang are suddenly surrounded by multiple Kangbots. GHOSTRIDER appears from nowhere in his chopper slashing a fiery chain at the Kangbots destroying them.)
NIC CAGE KANG: You!? No!
(GHOSTRIDER hits KANG in the face with the chain)
KANG: Ow! Stop it!
(GHOSTRIDER stops between KANG and LOKI)
GHOSTRIDER (To Loki): Get on!
SYLVIA: What the fuck is happening?
RENSLAYER: Well, you kinda started this so...
OB: Just get on! We can make no sense of this later!
(LOKI and the gang climb aboard)
GHOSTRIDER: Hang on tight buckaroos!
(They shoot off at high speed.)
LOKI: Where are you taking us?
GHOSTRIDER: The last place he'd think to look for us. (Turns to them) We're all going to hell!
SYLVIA: No offense, but that actually seems pretty obvious.
GHOSTRIDER: You asked.
SYLVIA: I did not! He did!
MORBIUS: Uh Mr. FIERY SKELETON RIDER, what do we call you.
GHOSTRIDER: You can call me Ghostrider!
MORBIUS: Alright, hey I was close. So Mr. Ghostrider, what happened to your skin if you don't mind my asking?
(No response, just the sound of the chopper letting up on the accelerator.)
OB: Oh no, don't ask that.
RENSLAYER: Jesus fucking Christ Morbius.
SYLVIA: Why would you ask that?
LOKI: (awkward chuckle to seem affable to recover some copacetic ground, clapping a reassuring hand on Ghostrider's shoulder) So, you know any good songs to sing on the way?
(They all ride in uncomfortable silence all the way to hell.)
Alright probably giving too much away. Got a little carried away maybe. I had a point to this, it might just require some interpretation.
 
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I was pretty tempted to say "Find out next week on Dragonball Z!" But then I felt it was too cliche and brainstormed different things and none were funnier so then I decided maybe Loki was ridiculous enough to be included as the joke about itself. Like a comment on how wheel-spinningly bonkers the show has become. But yes Dragonball Z was absolutely playing in my head with the cadence of everything else.

Trust the process, etc.

I predict season 3 will open like this:
Previously on Loki
"We need save the Time Loom from blowing up!"
CUT TO: Time Loom blowing up.
CUT TO: Loki, Morbius, Sylvia, Renslayer, and OB all drinking mimosas on the beach and having a good time.
CUT TO: A new Kang Variant played by Nic Cage emerges from a portal door.
KANG: Did somebody order a Time Loom?
Music crescendo. Loki and gang lineup in fighting stances like the ending to Mortal Kombat.
NARRARATOR: And now for the continuation of Hell's Kitchen.
LOKI: We don't want any trouble. We don't need a Time Loom. Granted we destroyed the last one by accident, but everything seems to have worked out so we'll just stick with this as the new status quo. Basically no different than the last status quo. I guess it is still then in function just the status quo as it has always been.
NIC CAGE KANG: You know the old saying, Loki, do you not? "When you change directions, you look a different way."
LOKI: I don't follow... I mean I get it, very clever, but in this context... I'm not following. And I never will.
(LOKI busts out his phantom green blades, and the horns too, why not)
NIC CAGE KANG: Well then. We'll just see about that now. Shall we?
(LOKI and the gang are suddenly surrounded by multiple Kangbots. GHOSTRIDER appears from nowhere in his chopper slashing a fiery chain at the Kangbots destroying them.)
NIC CAGE KANG: You!? No!
(GHOSTRIDER hits KANG in the face with the chain)
KANG: Ow! Stop it!
(GHOSTRIDER stops between KANG and LOKI)
GHOSTRIDER (To Loki): Get on!
SYLVIA: What the fuck is happening?
RENSLAYER: Well, you kinda started this so...
OB: Just get on! We can make no sense of this later!
(LOKI and the gang climb aboard)
GHOSTRIDER: Hang on tight buckaroos!
(They shoot off at high speed.)
LOKI: Where are you taking us?
GHOSTRIDER: The last place he'd think to look for us. (Turns to them) We're all going to hell!
SYLVIA: No offense, but that actually seems pretty obvious.
GHOSTRIDER: You asked.
SYLVIA: I did not! He did!
MORBIUS: Uh Mr. FIERY SKELETON RIDER, what do we call you.
GHOSTRIDER: You can call me Ghostrider!
MORBIUS: Alright, hey I was close. So Mr. Ghostrider, what happened to your skin if you don't mind my asking?
(No response, just the sound of the chopper letting up on the accelerator.)
OB: Oh no, don't ask that.
RENSLAYER: Jesus fucking Christ Morbius.
SYLVIA: Why would you ask that?
LOKI: (awkward chuckle to seem affable to recover some copacetic ground, clapping a reassuring hand on his shoulder) So, you know any good songs to sing on the way?
(They all ride in uncomfortable silence all the way to hell.)
Alright probably giving too much away. Got a little carried away maybe. I had a point to this, it might just require some interpretation.
Found Patton Oswalt's alt, wow
 
Read the Variety article.

My mom asked me if I did the dishes. I yelled "MCU!” She smiled. She knew they were washed.

seriously, shit sounds like a mess there. Imagine we'll get a lot of changes after the Marvels comes out, like what happened with the TV side recently
 


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