Discussion Geoff Keighley Would Love Nintendo To "Be A Big Part" Of Summer Game Fest

[Sadist]

Big oof at those prices.

Keep on dreaming Geoff

 

[balgajo]

Call me naive but I thought the monetization for this type of show came from gaming ads instead of reveal trailers. Of course trailer is also an ad but they are also the reason people watch this type of show. I thought the trailers would bring the viewership and then they would sell ad spots.

No wonder Nintendo wanted a new format.

EDIT: Of course it might be a different things for big reveals, like an exclusive look on the next GTA or Zelda game. In those cases the show needs the game much more than the opposite.

 

[Hailinel]

Call me naive but I thought the monetization for this type of show came from gaming ads instead of reveal trailers. Of course trailer is also an ad but they are also the reason people watch this type of show. I thought the trailers would bring the viewership and then they would sell ad spots.

No wonder Nintendo wanted a new format.

EDIT: Of course it might be a different things for big reveals, like an exclusive look on the next GTA or Zelda game. In those cases the show needs the game much more than the opposite.

It's a giant advertising platform. You pay to get your trailer a presumably large audience.

 

[Prophet64]

What's with the framing from people of this thread's topic?

He was asked this question. So he answered it seemingly honestly as his answer doesn't exactly bolster his show in regards to Nintendo's non-participation.

We already know why Nintendo doesn't want to be a part of it. Because it's fucking Nintendo. And pricing of what it costs to show your game trailer has nothing to do with it.

 

[correojon]

I think that TGA, SGF and Geoff overall are the biggest advocates of the hollow definition of "games as art": They only value games based on their graphical prowess and "mature" storylines while completely disregarding gameplay, which is the core component of the medium. Something like Splatoon should've won a multitude of significant awards because from a game design standpoint it's absolutely genius, but instead it gets stuff like "best family game" or "best multiplayer", showing the absolute misalign between the awards, the real merits of the games and what really matters in the medium. In other words: Nintendo may present a ground-breaking achievement only for to it to be treated as a kid's toy while incredibly shallow and simple games in comparison are heralded as the "real stuff".

It's funny that the model that Geoff pushes is also what's bringing the industry into a corner: The last gen of consoles has completely failed to provide a single game worth the upgrade, games pursuing this model of insane presentation and scale have exploded in costs and are bringing otherwise viable studios down with them, all while interviews with Iwata from a decade ago are resurfacing to pinpoint why this model is unsustainable.

The model proposed by Geoff is the complete opposite of the one followed by Nintendo, and in its' ignorance it even dares to disdain Nintendo's achievements and vision. So Nintendo not wanting to take part makes perfect sense.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

I think that TGA, SGF and Geoff overall are the biggest advocates of the hollow definition of "games as art": They only value games based on their graphical prowess and "mature" storylines while completely disregarding gameplay, which is the core component of the medium. Something like Splatoon should've won a multitude of significant awards because from a game design standpoint it's absolutely genius, but instead it gets stuff like "best family game" or "best multiplayer", showing the absolute misalign between the awards, the real merits of the games and what really matters in the medium. In other words: Nintendo may present a gound-breaking achievement only for to it to be treated as a kid's toy while incredibly shallow and simple games in comparison are heralded as the "real stuff".

It's funny that the model that Geoff pushes is also what's bringing the industry into a corner: The last gen of consoles has completely failed to provide a single game worth the upgrade, games pursuing this model of insane presentation and scale have exploded in costs and are bringing otherwise viable studios down with them, all while interviews with Iwata from a decade ago are resurfacing to pinpoint why this model is unsustainable.

The model proposed by Geoff is the complete opposite of the one followed by Nintendo, and in its' ignorance it even dares to disdain Nintendo's achievements and vision. So Nintendo not wanting to take part makes perfect sense.

But I need to correct myself, splatoon1 won best multiplayer and best shooter in 2015.

 

[correojon]

But I need to correct myself, splatoon1 won best multiplayer and best shooter in 2015.

True, it won "Best shooter" and "Best multiplayer", but "Best family game" went to Super Mario Maker. Still, it wasn't even considered for game of the year, or best art direction (nothing that year has become as iconic as the Splatoon look and, with the exception of Ori, everything that year was just striving for a realistic look), or best score/soundtrack (everything is ambiental music and orchestrated pieces) or for the "Games for impact" category which seems to focus on narrative alone. Anything that is not striving for a realistic look with an orchestral soundtrack and voice acting is automatically disqualified from any awards besides genre-specific ones or stuff like "Best family game". Then, there is even one narrative-focused category, because it seems that you can't create a significant impact just by mechanics and gameplay alone. But the moat critical aspect to me is that there are no gameplay or game design focused awards whatsoever.

You could have stuff like most inventive mechanic, best level of the year, best overall level design, best rounded mechanic (a mechanic that solves many design problems at once, like Splatoon's ink or Bayonetta's Witch Time)...You know, the stuff that actually matters when you PLAY a game. Instead, you have games like God of War that are showered in awards and nominations, but which relies in very simple and outdated gameplay concepts. Nothing that you DO in that game is amazing or groundbreaking, the combat system is barely workable with it being constantly in clash with the choices from the director to keep the camera close or force a secondary character mid-development and forcing crunch (and the game still got the best direction award). Just go to any forum of fans of action games and see how it's universally accepted that this should never be in the same conversation as DMC, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden and how no one considers it a game that should be highlighted for its' combat, which is the MAIN GAMEPLAY ACTIVITY IN THE GAME. That is the huge problem with TGA, they seem to reward games for things that are not game-related, or for trying to hide that they are games in the best way possible, pushing narrative and everything that happens in cutscenes above gameplay.

 

[Secu]

True, it won "Best shooter" and "Best multiplayer", but "Best family game" went to Super Mario Maker. Still, it wasn't even considered for game of the year, or best art direction (nothing that year has become as iconic as the Splatoon look and, with the exception of Ori, everything that year was just striving for a realistic look), or best score/soundtrack (everything is ambiental music and orchestrated pieces) or for the "Games for impact" category which seems to focus on narrative alone. Anything that is not striving for a realistic look with an orchestral soundtrack and voice acting is automatically disqualified from any awards besides genre-specific ones or stuff like "Best family game". Then, there is even one narrative-focused category, because it seems that you can't create a significant impact just by mechanics and gameplay alone. But the moat critical aspect to me is that there are no gameplay or game design focused awards whatsoever.

You could have stuff like most inventive mechanic, best level of the year, best overall level design, best rounded mechanic (a mechanic that solves many design problems at once, like Splatoon's ink or Bayonetta's Witch Time)...You know, the stuff that actually matters when you PLAY a game. Instead, you have games like God of War that are showered in awards and nominations, but which relies in very simple and outdated gameplay concepts. Nothing that you DO in that game is amazing or groundbreaking, the combat system is barely workable with it being constantly in clash with the choices from the director to keep the camera close or force a secondary character mid-development and forcing crunch (and the game still got the best direction award). Just go to any forum of fans of action games and see how it's universally accepted that this should never be in the same conversation as DMC, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden and how no one considers it a game that should be highlighted for its' combat, which is the MAIN GAMEPLAY ACTIVITY IN THE GAME. That is the huge problem with TGA, they seem to reward games for things that are not game-related, or for trying to hide that they are games in the best way possible, pushing narrative and everything that happens in cutscenes above gameplay.

That's right. People always have some inexplicable trust in these polished things. People are accustomed to passive acceptance rather than questioning.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

Is Summer Game Fest the Best Thing to Happen to Gaming—or the Worst?

Suddenly, Geoff Keighley's June showcase is one of the industry's most important events. Whether or not it's a positive force in gaming depends on who you ask—and how much money they have.

www.esquire.com

To further expand upon this:

A 1-Minute Trailer At Summer Game Fest Costs $250K [Update]

Being a part of Geoff Keighley's not-E3 video game extravaganza isn't cheap

kotaku.com

Not every trailer comes at a cost. Those considered “earned editorial placements” are played for free, and are likely reserved for big reveals from massive companies like Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft. Part of what other, smaller developers are paying for is likely the chance to be showcased alongside these bigger games and the eyeballs they draw.

Updated: 06/6/2024, 2:05 p.m. ET: After the publication of this story a handful of indie publishers and developers contacted Kotaku and explained that some “free slots” are provided to smaller, non-AAA games and studios. It appears that Keighley is sometimes pitched games to include and he provides some free airtime for these projects as part of the “earned editorial placements” previously mentioned.

Pubs/devs overall think it worth it to be apart of these shows.

Overall Nintendo does not need SGF/TGA due to their current reach & expanding influence.
As for the current Direct approach, in the words of Todd Howard, “It just works.” They don’t need to waste resources while no one, outside Koizumi, wants to get in a DBZ fist fight with each.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Wait so does that mean Geoff is probably offering Nintendo free time slots and they're still just going "yeah nah"?

 

[Danny]

Wait so does that mean Geoff is probably offering Nintendo free time slots and they're still just going "yeah nah"?

Imagine Keighley's reaction if Nintendo offered him the Switch 2 reveal.

 

[Bulgowski]

I think that TGA, SGF and Geoff overall are the biggest advocates of the hollow definition of "games as art": They only value games based on their graphical prowess and "mature" storylines while completely disregarding gameplay, which is the core component of the medium. Something like Splatoon should've won a multitude of significant awards because from a game design standpoint it's absolutely genius, but instead it gets stuff like "best family game" or "best multiplayer", showing the absolute misalign between the awards, the real merits of the games and what really matters in the medium. In other words: Nintendo may present a ground-breaking achievement only for to it to be treated as a kid's toy while incredibly shallow and simple games in comparison are heralded as the "real stuff".

It's funny that the model that Geoff pushes is also what's bringing the industry into a corner: The last gen of consoles has completely failed to provide a single game worth the upgrade, games pursuing this model of insane presentation and scale have exploded in costs and are bringing otherwise viable studios down with them, all while interviews with Iwata from a decade ago are resurfacing to pinpoint why this model is unsustainable.

The model proposed by Geoff is the complete opposite of the one followed by Nintendo, and in its' ignorance it even dares to disdain Nintendo's achievements and vision. So Nintendo not wanting to take part makes perfect sense.

Or like maybe you are doing the exact same thing but in the opposite direction ? Acting like games aren't worth your time if they aren't made by Nintendo or some cutesy Japanese thing.

2015 had Bloodborne, Witcher 3 and MGS 5 - 3 of the best games of that gen that were overwhelmingly successful at what they do (Bloodborne's combat, level design and experimental narrative design, Witcher's world building, writing and quest design, MGS 5's immergent stealth systems). Looking at other GOTY winners reveals similar successes:

2016: Overwatch - a revolutionary multiplayer shooter whose influence is felt in that space to this day
2017: BOTW - no explanation needed here
2018: God of War which yes has a large focus on narrative but still has excellent, satisfying combat and a fun, semi open world to explore
2019: Sekiro - a game thatbis all gameplay and has proven to be hugely influential on modern action game design
2020: TLOU 2 which like GOW prioritizes narrative but has really excellent map design and crunchy, satisfying combat
2021: It Takes Two which constantly throws new mechanics and ideas at the player and is very gameplay focused
2022: Elden Ring - no explanation needed
2023: Baldur's Gate 3 - had a strong narrative focus but is more of a system's focused game, with deep class customization and extremely deep and immergent turn based gameplay.

Like to say none of these games do anything interesting with gameplay is incredibly ignorant.

 

[correojon]

Or like maybe you are doing the exat same thing but in the opposite direction ? Acting like games aren't worth your time if they aren't made by Nintendo or some cutesy Japanese thing.

2015 had Bloodborne, Witcher 3 and MGS 5 - 3 of the best games of that gen that were overwhelmingly successful at what they do (Bloodborne's combat, level design and experimental narrative design, Witcher's world building, writing and quest design, MGS 5's immergent stealth systems). Looking at other GOTY winners reveals similar successes:

2016: Overwatch - a revolutionary multiplayer shooter whose influence is felt in that space to this day
2017: BOTW - no explanation needed here
2018: God of War which yes has a large focus on narrative but still has excellent, satisfying combat and a fun, semi open world to explore
2019: Sekiro - a game thatbis all gameplay and has proven to be hugely influential on modern action game design
2020: TLOU 2 which like GOW prioritizes narrative but has really excellent map design and crunchy, satisfying combat
2021: It Takes Two which constantly throws new mechanics and ideas at the player and is very gameplay focused
2022: Elden Ring - no explanation needed
2023: Baldur's Gate 3 - had a strong narrative focus but is more of a system's focused game, with deep class customization and extremely deep and immergent turn based gameplay.

Like to say none of these games do anything interesting with gameplay is incredibly ignorant.

I'm not going to engage in a discusión with someone who calls me ignorant right out of the gate. You need to learn how to convey your arguments without being disrespectful.

 

[robertman2]

True, it won "Best shooter" and "Best multiplayer", but "Best family game" went to Super Mario Maker. Still, it wasn't even considered for game of the year, or best art direction (nothing that year has become as iconic as the Splatoon look and, with the exception of Ori, everything that year was just striving for a realistic look), or best score/soundtrack (everything is ambiental music and orchestrated pieces) or for the "Games for impact" category which seems to focus on narrative alone. Anything that is not striving for a realistic look with an orchestral soundtrack and voice acting is automatically disqualified from any awards besides genre-specific ones or stuff like "Best family game". Then, there is even one narrative-focused category, because it seems that you can't create a significant impact just by mechanics and gameplay alone. But the moat critical aspect to me is that there are no gameplay or game design focused awards whatsoever.

You could have stuff like most inventive mechanic, best level of the year, best overall level design, best rounded mechanic (a mechanic that solves many design problems at once, like Splatoon's ink or Bayonetta's Witch Time)...You know, the stuff that actually matters when you PLAY a game. Instead, you have games like God of War that are showered in awards and nominations, but which relies in very simple and outdated gameplay concepts. Nothing that you DO in that game is amazing or groundbreaking, the combat system is barely workable with it being constantly in clash with the choices from the director to keep the camera close or force a secondary character mid-development and forcing crunch (and the game still got the best direction award). Just go to any forum of fans of action games and see how it's universally accepted that this should never be in the same conversation as DMC, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden and how no one considers it a game that should be highlighted for its' combat, which is the MAIN GAMEPLAY ACTIVITY IN THE GAME. That is the huge problem with TGA, they seem to reward games for things that are not game-related, or for trying to hide that they are games in the best way possible, pushing narrative and everything that happens in cutscenes above gameplay.

Splatoon didn't get nominated for best score because gargling noises aren't good music

 

[chocolate_supra]

Splatoon didn't get nominated for best score because gargling noises aren't good music

I disagree

 

[GPKs3]

Imagine Keighley's reaction if Nintendo offered him the Switch 2 reveal.

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

Splatoon didn't get nominated for best score because gargling noises aren't good music

Mooooods. Oh wait.