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Discussion Geoff Keighley Would Love Nintendo To "Be A Big Part" Of Summer Game Fest

rick_C said:
"Please wrap it up"
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Funny when I was watching, I was thinking the same thing about the show.

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Raccoon said:
Nintendo presenting at these sorts of industry events is always weird because of how dramatically behind they've fallen from the rest of the industry in terms of presentation

obviously I love them for it and really don't have much appreciation for the cutting edge but to me it seems that when it comes to the rest of the industry Nintendo's only winning move is not to play
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Behind? Really tired of this assertion that theyā€™re ā€œbehindā€. Also, in presentation? These cats literally stole the show with One Wild Breath in 2016. Nobody else in this industry could show up with one game, show you hours of gameplay, and end up being barely 2% of whatā€™s thereā€¦ But have people queueing around the blocks to play said game on a failed console. Still, I, too, wouldnā€™t want to be around the types who spread ā€œconfusionā€ lies at E3 2011, let alone trust them with reveals. Directs were forward thinking, and once again, ahead of the curve - Theyā€™re also the reason the entire industry had a blueprint and guidelines on how to do events while the world was in quarantine.

Other than that, Iā€™m sorryā€¦ I canā€™t say Iā€™m endeared to Keighley. The very definition of a mediocre man who somehow fell up the pyramid. Or, if that seems harsh, I donā€™t like the idea of him as this ā€œInfluencerā€ or spokesperson because he doesnā€™t take a stand on anything, and use his apparent reach for the greater good. His failure to speak up against the resurgence of GamerGate types, straight-up racism, disability hate, the anti-DEI pushback, and general hounding of marginalised identities out of the industry sours me a great deal, and thatā€™s before getting to him needing to be pushed to say something about the layoffs going on left, right and centre. Maybe itā€™s just me, but I find it cowardly in the extreme, tbqh. šŸ’•āœØ
 
Regulus Tera said:
Baldur's Gate 3 is the kind of innovative genre-defining game the likes of which we rarely see. It was absolutely warranted.
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I love the game, but imo any game that had 1/3rd of the game launch a broken mess with poor pacing (Act 3) shouldn't have gotten GotY.

But God dammit if Act 1 and Act 2 aren't spectacular. GotY is definitely warranted based on those. "Genre-defining" is absolutely correct. That's getting off topic though so I'll stop lol.

Angel Whispers said:
Behind? Really tired of this assertion that theyā€™re ā€œbehindā€. Also, in presentation? These cats literally stole the show with One Wild Breath in 2016. Nobody else in this industry could show up with one game, show you hours of gameplay, and end up being barely 2% of whatā€™s thereā€¦ But have people queueing around the blocks to play said game on a failed console. Still, I, too, wouldnā€™t want to be around the types who spread ā€œconfusionā€ lies at E3 2011, let alone trust them with reveals. Directs were forward thinking, and once again, ahead of the curve - Theyā€™re also the reason the entire industry had a blueprint and guidelines on how to do events while the world was in quarantine.

Other than that, Iā€™m sorryā€¦ I canā€™t say Iā€™m endeared to Keighley. The very definition of a mediocre man who somehow fell up the pyramid. Or, if that seems harsh, I donā€™t like the idea of him as this ā€œInfluencerā€ or spokesperson because he doesnā€™t take a stand on anything, and use his apparent reach for the greater good. His failure to speak up against the resurgence of GamerGate types, straight-up racism, disability hate, the anti-DEI pushback, and general hounding of marginalised identities out of the industry sours me a great deal, and thatā€™s before getting to him needing to be pushed to say something about the layoffs going on left, right and centre. Maybe itā€™s just me, but I find it cowardly in the extreme, tbqh.
šŸ’•
āœØ
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I think @Raccoon is purely talking about Nintendo's presentation from an image quality standpoint. The art design is impeccable, the rendering features are modern, and they're all incredibly technically polished. But image quality wise, they're definitely behind because of Switch being a handheld, and that's okay. That's just the nature of the beast when it comes to working with handhelds. They don't look bad, but they certainly look behind and it certainly isn't an entirely incorrect observation. The Tegra X1 in the Switch is far newer and more modern than the Wii U, but due to it being restricted to handheld-level thermals and power consumption, it can't flex its muscles so in practice it's more a "Wii U Pro" VS an outright new generation. I'm underselling the Switch's capabilities a bit and painting it with too broad of a stroke, but still. We've basically been around that level of power since 2013.
 
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I agree. It would be nice if the entire industry came together and consolidated their big announcements to one weekend again, like during E3. It would boost everyone.

Instead we're stuck with Nintendo's haphazard and poorly planned Direct schedule.
 
I mean Nintendo has zero desire or need to give up control. Why be forced to be tied to a regional event in this day and age when their own directs pull in the numbers they do
 
Please refrain from using swear words with sexist connotations, such as "bitch". - meatbag, Zellia, big lantern ghost, MissingNo
Lintendo said:


Nate is a savage..LOL
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Last year people were bitching about the speeches being way too long. People have the memory of goldfishes.

Keighley's been pretty transparent about addressing issues year-to-year, he says the time limit on speeches is being done away with.
 
Ricimer said:
Last year people were bitching about the speeches being way too long. People have the memory of goldfishes.
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Were they?

I only recall people having opinions on Cristopher Judge's speech, and while I'm sure many were upset, a lot of people also just memed on it.
 
Danny said:
I think Nintendo still works under the blue ocean strategy, they remove themselves from the rest of the gaming industry as much as they can as their way to show how they are not competing with other players in the game industry. This leads automatically to create a sense that Nintendo is different, because gamers see all other game companies doing events together while they never see Nintendo take part in anything.
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The blue ocean strategy wasn't Nintendo separating themselves from the industry, but trying to extend their reach beyond the traditional gaming demographics and I think it's naive to say that Nintendo is not competing with others in the industry. While that may be true in the graphics race they are definitely competing for your free time which is the only metric that really matters.
GPKs3 said:
Is SGF the new E3 or trying to mimic it? Iā€™ve never followed it.
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SGF is how Geoff and the gaming community picture E3 used to be when in reality it was much more then a showroom floor with conferences. E3 was a trade show where companies can see what innovations and products their partners and competitors were developing and make deals and partnerships with others. Nowadays that is a bit antiquated due to progress in communications, but it is a big reason why SGF will never replicate what E3 was.
 
At most we might get something at the game awards this year since the switch 2 should be properly announced by then, but SGF? Probably some smaller thirdy party switch/switch 2 exclusives but never Nintendo themselves
 
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Irene said:
Were they?

I only recall people having opinions on Cristopher Judge's speech, and while I'm sure many were upset, a lot of people also just memed on it.
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People were definitely annoyed with Judge's long-winded speech, which is why they overcorrected the next year.
 
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Seven said:
The blue ocean strategy wasn't Nintendo separating themselves from the industry, but trying to extend their reach beyond the traditional gaming demographics and I think it's naive to say that Nintendo is not competing with others in the industry. While that may be true in the graphics race they are definitely competing for your free time which is the only metric that really matters.

SGF is how Geoff and the gaming community picture E3 used to be when in reality it was much more then a showroom floor with conferences. E3 was a trade show where companies can see what innovations and products their partners and competitors were developing and make deals and partnerships with others. Nowadays that is a bit antiquated due to progress in communications, but it is a big reason why SGF will never replicate what E3 was.
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Lol, my bad. I guess I didn't word my post very well. I know what E3 was. I just wasn't familiar with SGF. :)
 
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Imagine negotiating and most likely paying to be a part of SGF and then dude who runs the whole show tells it's target audience to not get excited and that the show this year is kinda mid.
 
Danny said:
Isn't Tokyo game show originally Playstation and their close third party partners showcase while Nintendo had their own alternative spaceworld showcase? Only problem is that the Nintendo spaceworld was shut down while TGS continued, leaving Nintendo with no showcase of their own in Japan.
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Yes it was originally setup as a PS show along with other 3rd parties who wanted out of Nintendoā€™s orbit. Ultimately I donā€™t think Nintendo needs a showcase like TGS between their Directs, Nintendo Live & Nintendo World. Given their dominance in JP itā€™s not really a problem for them to not be apart of TGS.
 
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I know SGF is supposed to be the "replacement" for E3, but I feel like it often lacks the soul that E3 once had. It doesn't matter what scifi shooter live service game is shown, it just doesn't hit the same as some of the moments that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft once had with E3- even the smaller ones!

I think Nintendo knows that the Nintendo Direct is special, why would they want to put it under the SGF umbrella when they have their own thing that is working just fine? I think what they do now, single announcements for smash (when relevant) or smaller niche games works fine. That way, it's always a welcome surprise without being expected.

Truly, sometimes I feel like Nintendo is the only one keeping Geoff from obtaining his final form.
 
Danny said:
Is there any chance that Nintendo will start to reveal more stuff on summer games fest and Tokyo game show in the future? Or will they remain the one company that only does its own events and never announces anything on other shows?
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Nintendo is probably going to distance more from this type of events as gaming culture continues to splinter more and more, just like everything else. Shows like SGF and TGA are living fossils of an era in which magazines and sites like GameSpot were at the center of "mainstream" video game culture. Today not only are Directs big on its own, but this hardcore AAA sphere that Keighley represents is not mainstream by any means, and for Nintendo there are many other places where the grass is greener.
 
Yzz said:
Nintendo is probably going to distance more from this type of events as gaming culture continues to splinter more and more, just like everything else. Shows like SGF and TGA are living fossils of an era in which magazines and sites like GameSpot were at the center of "mainstream" video game culture. Today not only are Directs big on its own, but this hardcore AAA sphere that Keighley represents is not mainstream by any means, and for Nintendo there are many other places where the grass is greener.
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I mean, if we're going to go by playerbase and brand awareness, gacha games are bigger than lootbangs and boomershooters combined. šŸ« 
 
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Vookatos said:
I think it would be cool to get some sorta Mega-Event or two that would replace E3, I don't think Geoff is the answer.

I'd like there to be maybe 1-2 events as opposed to what's happening now when there are a thousand various Indie showcases, publishers doing their own thing, console directs, and the Game Fest. Where are the best games gonna be announced? Where will you see your anitcipated title? Who knows!

Although concentrating all that in Keighley's hands would be a disaster, and I'd rather he step away from doing any kind of event at all, considering his constant reluctance to call anything out, and basically being a marketer with 0 charisma.
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This is a great post. Much better put than what I was going to say, which is that Geoff sucks and so do his hypefest shows.
 
Yzz said:
Nintendo is probably going to distance more from this type of events as gaming culture continues to splinter more and more, just like everything else. Shows like SGF and TGA are living fossils of an era in which magazines and sites like GameSpot were at the center of "mainstream" video game culture. Today not only are Directs big on its own, but this hardcore AAA sphere that Keighley represents is not mainstream by any means, and for Nintendo there are many other places where the grass is greener.
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Older than that. Relics of the time when CES was the talk of the town and the only place for this tech to gain any exposure for both devs and consumers. E3 was always just a more game focused CES.
 
Ricimer said:
I agree. It would be nice if the entire industry came together and consolidated their big announcements to one weekend again, like during E3. It would boost everyone.

Instead we're stuck with Nintendo's haphazard and poorly planned Direct schedule.
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Wh... What... They're planned months in advance and have a fairly consistent schedule that varies mainly when there's a global pandemic or a generational transition to deal with!

I watch all three platform holders' presentations on the regular now, since I actually have them all now, and Nintendo's presentations usually have by far the most games and are extremely well put together. Sometimes Microsoft fills time by revealing a real world car instead of a game, sometimes Sony... Er. When does Sony not muck up the pacing.

Nintendo Directs are planned within an inch of their life, and they have to be, they're advertisement, reveals, plans, schedules, press releases and community engagement opportunities all wrapped into one, that have to outline everything that a multi-billion dollar company is about to do for three to twelve months!
 
For all the talk of Nintendo seeming behind, they actually had the benefit from having a head start in showcases like Directs and more importantly how to gradually refine them over time. There's a strong lament about the more personal and developer oriented Directs circa the Wii U era, but from a PR standpoint the ones since the Switch took off have managed much better pacing and more concentrated hype in the online sphere. The best ones tend to be buffets where you see a large variety of different genres and series to really maximize appeal, but even the most infamous examples like much mocked/memed Farming Direct still managed their time better than what Sony and Microsoft have often done with their presentations.

Even Nintendo showcases I personally am not interested in are always ones I'm impressed by professionally.
 
Ricimer said:
Last year people were bitching about the speeches being way too long. People have the memory of goldfishes.

Keighley's been pretty transparent about addressing issues year-to-year, he says the time limit on speeches is being done away with.
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1. They focus more on game trailers and advertisement than the award itself. Most of the times not even new information or actual slop.
2. They gave more time to other people especially Kojima. The Zelda producer didn't even talk that much considering they had translation.
3. Apparently happened to Baldur's Gate 3 as well, like wtf that's the game that won GOTY
4. The whole show was still long af not because of speech from the GOTY or Zelda team, but bcuz of trailers and speech from less popular stuff.
Ricimer said:
I agree. It would be nice if the entire industry came together and consolidated their big announcements to one weekend again, like during E3. It would boost everyone.

Instead we're stuck with Nintendo's haphazard and poorly planned Direct schedule.
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I agree with your first statement, but I don't understand what u mean by the last. Especially since Nintendo has a consistent schedule with their directs (one feb, june, sept) and they have by far the best showcase. Nobody else comes close in terms of hype and pacing.
 
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Concernt said:
If spinoffs to multimillion sellers are unbelievably niche, do I have something to tell you about Mario Kart. šŸ˜­
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I meanā€¦ Bayonetta is niche, even if it sold 1M copies.

Same goes fore Fire emblem and Metroid and especially my darling Pikmin.
 
Steve said:
I meanā€¦ Bayonetta is niche, even if it sold 1M copies.

Same goes fore Fire emblem and Metroid and especially my darling Pikmin.
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Pikmin is NICHE? šŸ˜­

I don't know if the top seller in Japan for weeks at a time, a headlining game in Nintendo's roadshow, and a multimedia franchise, is niche. I think perspectives of "niche" Vs "mainstream" have been MASSIVELY skewed by a few breakthrough mega series.

Bayonetta 3 sold more than Twilight Princess HD. Are Zelda remakes niche? šŸ˜…
 
Concernt said:
Pikmin is NICHE? šŸ˜­

I don't know if the top seller in Japan for weeks at a time, a headlining game in Nintendo's roadshow, and a multimedia franchise, is niche. I think perspectives of "niche" Vs "mainstream" have been MASSIVELY skewed by a few breakthrough mega series.

Bayonetta 3 sold more than Twilight Princess HD. Are Zelda remakes niche? šŸ˜…
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My brother in Christ šŸ˜­ twilight HD was released in a dead consoles, of course Bayonetta 3 would outsell it.

As I say, pikmin is still Niche, despite it success, itā€™s a niche serie, for example few Nintendo game have Mainstream games, meanwhile others are niche hardcore Nintendo games.

Like Zelda and Mario are obviously not niche, meanwhile Pikmin, Metroid and Bayonetta are niche when it comes to recognition.

heck maybe I am too rotted with gaming reception of whatā€™s Niche and what isnā€™t, since weā€™ve been hearing a lot of companies talking about, stoping making small scale projects and focus on popular IP and sequels (Iā€™m looking at you Pixar, Microsoft and Square)
 
rĆŖverie said:
i've never really understood the hatred for this guy on fami. is there a specific thing he did that was panned or is it just that he's generally annoying and has a punchable face?
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videogames.si.com

The games industry deserves a better spokesperson than Geoff Keighley - Video Games on Sports Illustrated

Why won't the industry's most influential person speak up?
videogames.si.com videogames.si.com

Here's an article highlighting some issues people have with him if youā€™re interested. Whether you agree with the premise of the article is your own prerogative, but there are legitimate reasons for people to dislike him beyond finding him annoying or whatever.
 
Steve said:
My brother in Christ šŸ˜­ twilight HD was released in a dead consoles, of course Bayonetta 3 would outsell it.

As I say, pikmin is still Niche, despite it success, itā€™s a niche serie, for example few Nintendo game have Mainstream games, meanwhile others are niche hardcore Nintendo games.

Like Zelda and Mario are obviously not niche, meanwhile Pikmin, Metroid and Bayonetta are niche when it comes to recognition.

heck maybe I am too rotted with gaming reception of whatā€™s Niche and what isnā€™t, since weā€™ve been hearing a lot of companies talking about, stoping making small scale projects and focus on popular IP and sequels (Iā€™m looking at you Pixar, Microsoft and Square)
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I think you're definitely skewed in your perception based on a few mega franchises.

Pikmin, Metroid and Bayonetta are all multi-award-winning, multi-million seller mainstay franchises. Pikmin certainly isn't hardcore! Bayonetta won the global Smash ballot.

That's not niche that's winning a global poll for most popular video game character*

*which was possible for Nintendo to obtain and which was not already in Smash.

For perspective on sheer numbers:

Concernt said:
Bayonetta on Nintendo Switch has sold nearly as many units as the Legend of Zelda on Nintendo DS.
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Concernt said:
Bayonetta on Nintendo Switch has sold nearly as many units as the Legend of Zelda on Nintendo DS.

Genuinely asking.

When did Spirit Tracks become "bordering on niche"?
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Phantom Hourglass sold 4.76 million copies. Spirit Tracks sold 2.96 million copies, which is kind low for Zelda.

Bayonetta 3 sold 1 million copies ..... years after the digital boom, when pretty much every AAA game is selling way more than that.

lol, lmao even
 
AngryAlchemist said:
Phantom Hourglass sold 4.76 million copies. Spirit Tracks sold 2.96 million copies, which is kind low for Zeld.

Bayonetta 3 sold 1 million copies ..... years after the digital boom, when pretty much every AAA game is selling way more than that.

lol, lmao even
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And how's that expectation working out for the industry?

Bayonetta is iconic, award-winning and sells more than enough to make up development costs, with the potential (but not confirmed) exception of Origins.

Niche franchises rarely become Smash fighters. They certainly don't tend to do so by popular vote. Bayonetta is the only one to do so, period! They also don't tend to be end-of-direct stingers. Yet Bayonetta is all of these things!

And so is Pikmin!
 
Concernt said:
And how's that expectation working out for the industry?

Bayonetta is iconic, award-winning and sells more than enough to make up development costs, with the potential (but not confirmed) exception of Origins.

Niche franchises rarely become Smash fighters. They certainly don't tend to do so by popular vote. Bayonetta is the only one to do so, period! They also don't tend to be end-of-direct stingers. Yet Bayonetta is all of these things!
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The games industry isn't failing because video games are bigger than ever and selling more than ever, it's failing because of chasing live service (aka free games) trends and by ballooning budgets which publishers could control if they wanted to, but choose not to. Nintendo doesn't have either of these issues, so this doesn't change Bayonetta being niche.

Mega Man is a Smash fighter. He's niche, and still probably less niche than Bayonetta. Not every Smash fighter is super popular. Bayonetta didn't even win the poll as far as I know .... Sora did
 
Concernt said:
Pikmin is NICHE? šŸ˜­

I don't know if the top seller in Japan for weeks at a time, a headlining game in Nintendo's roadshow, and a multimedia franchise, is niche. I think perspectives of "niche" Vs "mainstream" have been MASSIVELY skewed by a few breakthrough mega series.

Bayonetta 3 sold more than Twilight Princess HD. Are Zelda remakes niche? šŸ˜…
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Idk I feel like a lot of people use the term "niche" to describe something that is not mainstream or as popular, which might not be the correct way to use it. In this case, "niche" is probably used in comparison to other Nintendo IPs. If we look at it as a whole, Pikmin is not niche at all.
Imo, Pikmin as a brand is not niche, but their games are. Same with Bayo. This is because the brand recognition is super high, but their games are fairly targeted towards a niche audience.
It depends, are we talking popularity of the franchise or recognition. A lot of people may know Pikmin, but they may not be dedicated fans.
Kirby games for example, is not a juggernaut in terms of sales. But if we include merchandise sales and stuff outside of gaming, Kirby is one of the biggest franchise in media as a whole.
There's also regional differences. For example, Halo is a massive IP in America, but it is certainly niche in Japan.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
The games industry isn't failing because video games are bigger than ever and selling more than ever, it's failing because of chasing live service (aka free games) trends and by ballooning budgets which publishers could control if they wanted to, but choose not to. Nintendo doesn't have either of these issues, so this doesn't change Bayonetta being niche.

Mega Man is a Smash fighter. He's niche, and still probably less niche than Bayonetta. Not every Smash fighter is super popular. Bayonetta didn't even win the poll as far as I know .... Sora did
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MEGA MAN IS NICHE?!

And yes, Bayonetta won the Super Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot.

I mean, I don't know what else to say but... No, no, these aren't niche. Pikmin isn't niche. Mega Man isn't niche. Bayonetta isn't niche. Super Smash Bros. fighters aren't niche. Smaller franchises? Sure. Next to Super Mario and The Legend of Zelda... The biggest franchises.
 
Concernt said:
MEGA MAN IS NICHE?!

And yes, Bayonetta won the Super Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot.

I mean, I don't know what else to say but... No, no, these aren't niche. Pikmin isn't niche. Mega Man isn't niche. Bayonetta isn't niche. Super Smash. Bros. isn't niche. Smaller franchises? Sure. Next to Super Mario and The Legend of Zelda... The biggest franchises.
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Mega Man is pretty niche, yes. I don't think Pikmin is niche. Never said Smash is niche.

To be clear my opinion probably falls more in line with @Koti , if people mean niche only to mean non AAA or stuff with low recognition, then I probably wouldn't call Bayonetta niche, but from a sales perspective? It's definitely pushing it .... I'm all in favor of recognizing that there is a high amount of variance in popularity between the biggest major releases and the smaller ones, as that is healthier for the game industry, but I can also recognize 1 million is really pushing it especially these days. Bayonetta is a major release, with a decent amount of recognition, but its appeal is honestly pretty niche.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
Mega Man is pretty niche, yes. I don't think Pikmin is niche. Never said Smash is niche.

To be clear my opinion probably falls more in line with @Koti , if people mean niche only to mean non AAA or stuff with low recognition, then I probably wouldn't call Bayonetta niche, but from a sales perspective? It's definitely pushing it .... I'm all in favor of recognizing that there is a high amount of variance in popularity between the biggest major releases and the smaller ones, as that is healthier for the game industry, but I can also recognize 1 million is really pushing it especially these days.
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Yeah, pretty much the best answer.
 
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AngryAlchemist said:
Mega Man is pretty niche, yes. I don't think Pikmin is niche. Never said Smash is niche.

To be clear my opinion probably falls more in line with @Koti , if people mean niche only to mean non AAA or stuff with low recognition, then I probably wouldn't call Bayonetta niche, but from a sales perspective? It's definitely pushing it .... I'm all in favor of recognizing that there is a high amount of variance in popularity between the biggest major releases and the smaller ones, as that is healthier for the game industry, but I can also recognize 1 million is really pushing it especially these days.
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I think including AAA multi-million seller franchises under the term niche is really stretching both "AAA" and "niche" beyond their means, "niche AAA" is essentially oxymoronic.
 
Concernt said:
I think including AAA multi-million seller franchises under the term niche is really stretching both "AAA" and "niche" beyond their means, "niche AAA" is essentially oxymoronic.
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It really isn't. AAA mostly just refers to budget. Bayonetta might not get a huge budget compared to a PS game but it's probably one of the most expensive 1 million sellers ever made.

For example, every live service game ever made that had a huge budget and flopped is AAA, it's not no longer AAA because it flopped. You even alluded to this earlier when you mentioned the game industry's woes hue. AAA doesn't mean hugely popular.
 
Niche definition - denoting products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.

We have to look at the size. 1 million in the 90s is not niche at all. However, as the market and global population grew, 1 million copies isn't a big number anymore. Games like Callitsto Protocol which I would consider niche, sold more than 1 million. Does that mean Pikmin or Bayo is on the same level? Pikmin and Bayo are significantly more iconic and recognizable. But what if we solely focused on their games, then yes it's on the same level. This is why I said as a brand or franchise, they're not niche but their games are.

So yes, if we only focus on Zelda remakes, you can say those are niche. Even something big like Minecraft. If we only focus on Minecraft Legends, that game is niche.
 
Ricimer said:
I agree. It would be nice if the entire industry came together and consolidated their big announcements to one weekend again, like during E3. It would boost everyone.

Instead we're stuck with Nintendo's haphazard and poorly planned Direct schedule.
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ā€œNintendoā€™s haphazard and poorly planned Direct scheduleā€. What? Are you clueless?
 
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