• Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
  • Furukawa Speaks! We discuss the announcement of the Nintendo Switch Successor and our June Direct Predictions on the new episode of the Famiboards Discussion Club! Check it out here!

Discussion Geoff Keighley Would Love Nintendo To "Be A Big Part" Of Summer Game Fest

keighley seems like that friend you only hung out with because they were friends with your ex (Reggie.)
 
JorgenRaft said:
You can see GOTY noms here, this website keeps track of pretty much everything:

Game of the Year - Award Tracker

Here you can see the awards for the best game of the year according to different media
goty.gamefa.com goty.gamefa.com

I didn't play BG3 but pretty much everyone I know who has played it considers it their GOTY. It apparently did some pretty impressive stuff.
Click to expand...
I'm confused about the competition for the GOTY award, I think these large productions take up all the nominations for the entire GOTY awards, keeping only one indie slot as a token addition, and to be honest in my opinion indie games that actively push the envelope as well as gameplay creativity that is very much in evidence are more deserving of being sought after in this day and age.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
I'm confused about the competition for the GOTY award, I think these large productions take up all the nominations for the entire GOTY awards, keeping only one indie slot as a token addition, and to be honest in my opinion indie games that actively push the envelope as well as gameplay creativity that is very much in evidence are more deserving of being sought after in this day and age.
Click to expand...
Like all award shows it’s because it’s a vehicle for advertising spend. And indie studios don’t have the cash to burn so all get lumped together as a token acknowledgement category regardless of genre, whereas TGA wants to make sure there’s a reason for all the multinationals to throw money at them. Same reason why all the esports stuff gets a bizarre amount of award categories far and above actual indie devs. It’s all money and sponsorship and selling ad space rather than actually celebrating devs.
 
Last edited:
PixelKnight said:
Like all award shows it’s because it’s a vehicle for advertising spend. And indie studios don’t have the cash to burn so all get lumped together regardless of genre, whereas TGA wants to make sure there’s a reason for all the multinationals to throw money at them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why I think most modern game awards are pretty dishonest, they're completely controlled by the media and big companies who try to monopolize the discourse through the awards while completely ignoring the fact that there's no real harmony between the four perspectives of gamers, developers, game companies, and the media, and that the cozying up of big companies and the media tends to turn the GOTY judging into a hierarchical race, which is not at all what theWhat gaming awards should be, I think Geoff has changed nothing from the VGA back in the day and is an asshole.

In short Geoff is trying to rope in the big publishers as well as the devs and the media to shape a pseudo-harmony that is sure to be dismantled.
 
I would hope Nintendo opens up their spaceworld presentations in Japan, Nintendo directs are fine and all but having a huge live presentation like spaceworld has its perks as well.
 
0
Aufhebung RPG said:
I'm confused about the competition for the GOTY award, I think these large productions take up all the nominations for the entire GOTY awards, keeping only one indie slot as a token addition, and to be honest in my opinion indie games that actively push the envelope as well as gameplay creativity that is very much in evidence are more deserving of being sought after in this day and age.
Click to expand...

It's really just because well reviewed AAA games are usually more popular than AAA indies, so they often end up getting more votes. It's nothing to do with money or publishers paying off the voters or some weird conspiracy like that. And indies do get nominated sometimes, like Celeste and Hades. There isn't really a "token" indie spot in the GOTY noms, as there have been years without one.

I do agree that indies are often more unique than AAA games, though I would say most of the winners in the past have definitely pushed the envelope of what video games can be.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
On a point not entirely relevant to the topic, does anyone understand the TGA judging rules, the fact that all the awards went cleanly in favor of Baldur's Gate 3 last year is mind-boggling to me, and I'm not saying that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't GOTY worthy, but I've basically rarely seen such a unanimous GOTY
Click to expand...
Baldur's Gate 3 is the kind of innovative genre-defining game the likes of which we rarely see. It was absolutely warranted.
 
miyamoto_kinect-2.jpg


Live Miyamoto Reaction
 
Regulus Tera said:
Baldur's Gate 3 is the kind of innovative genre-defining game the likes of which we rarely see. It was absolutely warranted.
Click to expand...
I don't really think it defines any genre, it's just a repeat of a genre that Fallout 2 defined long ago,because he's surprisingly popular.so it's being intentionally made into a god.

By the way, the much lauded design of Baldur's Gate 3 was not only perfected in Fallout 2, but those "immersive sim" made the most of it 20+ years ago, and I really don't see how Baldur's Gate 3 defines a genre?
 
Last edited:
JorgenRaft said:
It's really just because well reviewed AAA games are usually more popular than AAA indies, so they often end up getting more votes. It's nothing to do with money or publishers paying off the voters or some weird conspiracy like that. And indies do get nominated sometimes, like Celeste and Hades. There isn't really a "token" indie spot in the GOTY noms, as there have been years without one.

I do agree that indies are often more unique than AAA games, though I would say most of the winners in the past have definitely pushed the envelope of what video games can be.
Click to expand...
I can't agree, the whole TGA since TLOU2 has been revealing itself to be a tracker of media preferences as well as the preferences of large corporations, including the fact that Elden Ring in 2022 is nothing more than a larger version of Dark Souls 3, and I can't see how any of those games "pushed the boundaries", and that's not encouraging innovation. it's about whoever makes it big enough to be talked about and whether the media is enthusiastic enough about it to win.
 
Not sure how many people tune into Geoff’s SGF show every year, but 90+million people watch The Game Awards live. From my perspective, if I’m Nintendo I’d want those people seeing my product, regardless of whether I “need it” or not. It’s damn good exposure.

SGF may not be anywhere near that amount, but it seems only beneficial to have people see a game coming to Nintendo’s platform that may not otherwise watch a Nintendo Direct. There’s really no harm in it plus it would make the show even more fun Nintendo fans.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
Yeah, that's why I think most modern game awards are pretty dishonest
Click to expand...
IIRC the game awards does not have awards for “best level design”, “most innovative gameplay mechanic” and the like, so make of that what you will

Aufhebung RPG said:
I don't really think it defines any genre, it's just a repeat of a genre that Fallout 2 defined long ago,because he's surprisingly popular.so it's being intentionally made into a god.
Click to expand...
That said there’s really no need for this sort of conspiratorial thinking, to put down Baldur’s Gate 3 like this. A lot, and I mean a lot, of people did love the game.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
Yeah, that's why I think most modern game awards are pretty dishonest, they're completely controlled by the media and big companies who try to monopolize the discourse through the awards while completely ignoring the fact that there's no real harmony between the four perspectives of gamers, developers, game companies, and the media, and that the cozying up of big companies and the media tends to turn the GOTY judging into a hierarchical race, which is not at all what theWhat gaming awards should be, I think Geoff has changed nothing from the VGA back in the day and is an asshole.

In short Geoff is trying to rope in the big publishers as well as the devs and the media to shape a pseudo-harmony that is sure to be dismantled.
Click to expand...
TGA is very absurd. This is not its credibility or impartiality. It won't even tell who voted for whom or how each game ultimately received their votes.
Of course, the public can reasonably accept that this opacity is even more absurd.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
I don't really think it defines any genre, it's just a repeat of a genre that Fallout 2 defined long ago,because he's surprisingly popular.so it's being intentionally made into a god.
Click to expand...
Eh, it’s not an unreasonable pick any more than TotK was. It’s on something like 96 on metacritic, in 2023 nothing scores that high without the highest critical acclaim across dozens of sites. While I think TGA is effectively just a commercial advertising vehicle to prioritise AAA games from multinationals and esport stuff happy to splash the cash on sponsorship and advertising space, I’m not surprised a judging panel of games media types picked it, it was either going to be that or TOTK.
 
meatbag said:
IIRC the game awards does not have awards for “best level design”, “most innovative gameplay mechanic” and the like, so make of that what you will


That said there’s really no need for this sort of conspiratorial thinking, to put down Baldur’s Gate 3 like this. A lot, and I mean a lot, of people did love the game.
Click to expand...
I'm not denigrating Baldur's Gate 3, it's a great game, but the fact that it was chosen so consistently by the media and the awards makes me wonder if the gaming community doesn't understand the whole reinventing-the-wheel thing, and I really don't think that revitalizing a genre can be called "defining" the genre, and obviously I think there has been a huge bubble and god-making movement in gaming awards for a few years.
 
I have always believed that Nintendo's willingness to participate in TGA is due to Reggie and Geoff's personal relationship.
 
PixelKnight said:
Eh, it’s not an unreasonable pick any more than TotK was. It’s on something like 96 on metacritic, in 2023 nothing scores that high without the highest critical acclaim across dozens of sites. While I think TGA is effectively just a commercial advertising vehicle to prioritise AAA games from multinationals and esport stuff happy to splash the cash on sponsorship and advertising space, I’m not surprised a judging panel of games media types picked it, it was either going to be that or TOTK.
Click to expand...
Well, from my perspective I don't think totk gets GOTY either, it's a game made by reusing BOTW material and has many problems.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
I can't agree, the whole TGA since TLOU2 has been revealing itself to be a tracker of media preferences as well as the preferences of large corporations, including the fact that Elden Ring in 2022 is nothing more than a larger version of Dark Souls 3, and I can't see how any of those games "pushed the boundaries", and that's not encouraging innovation. it's about whoever makes it big enough to be talked about and whether the media is enthusiastic enough about it to win.
Click to expand...
I mean it's really not. At the end of that day, it's just a vote based on what these outlets feel best fit each category. You're not always going to agree with the winners. It's not like every game won in a 100% landslide. TLOU2 and Elden Ring were games that were both very beloved by critics and very popular, so it's easy to see why each won.

Secu said:
TGA is very absurd. This is not its credibility or impartiality. It won't even tell who voted for whom or how each game ultimately received their votes.
Of course, the public can reasonably accept that this opacity is even more absurd.
Click to expand...
They do show who votes on the awards and how it works on their website. They don't show the percentages afterwards as to now initiate any controversy over "__ only got 1% more than __, the fan vote rigged the results" etc etc.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
if the gaming community doesn't understand the whole reinventing-the-wheel thing, and I really don't think that revitalizing a genre can be called "defining" the genre, and obviously I think there has been a huge bubble and god-making movement in gaming awards for a few years.
Click to expand...
Wow, this sounds incredibly condescending. Just accept that Baldur’s Gate 3 was a lot of people’s favorite game last year.
 
This feels like when you see a headline like “Famous Actor Wants to Play Marvel Super Hero X in the MCU!” and you read the story and it’s literally “during an interview we asked Actor if they’d want to play Marvel Super Hero X in the MCU and they said ‘sure I guess.’”

Of course he wants Nintendo involved. It would be newsworthy if he didn’t.
 
Danny said:
True. I mean Nintendo even ignores Tokyo game show which is weirder given that every other Japanese video game company is there.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure they aren't allowed to do any big announcements at TGS/have a sort of mutual agreement to not do that ever since they showed the Wiimote there 👀
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
Well, from my perspective I don't think totk gets GOTY either, it's a game made by reusing BOTW material and has many problems.
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, but you’re then setting a criteria that rules out the two most critically acclaimed games of the year in the games press, chosen by a judging panel made up of the games press. At that point you’d need to rework the whole games media industry and its focus on big smash hits too, leaving TGA very much a symptom of a wider issue of the invisibility of innovative smaller titles that pop up all the time on the digital stores then disappear.
 
JorgenRaft said:
They do show who votes on the awards and how it works on their website. They don't show the percentages afterwards as to now initiate any controversy over "__ only got 1% more than __, the fan vote rigged the results" etc etc.
Click to expand...
Explaining what rules are and how they are executed is not related.
They need to list who voted for whom after each award, no matter where.
And public data will only reduce these controversies, not increase them.
If someone is in controversy due to fan manipulation, it's just because they didn't disclose it in detail enough.
 
JorgenRaft said:
I mean it's really not. At the end of that day, it's just a vote based on what these outlets feel best fit each category. You're not always going to agree with the winners. It's not like every game won in a 100% landslide. TLOU2 and Elden Ring were games that were both very beloved by critics and very popular, so it's easy to see why each won.
Click to expand...
The tragic truth is that the 2020 TGA as the Alex that did wonders with VR interactions couldn't even get a nomination in the end, and a lot of what has happened so far makes me think that the TGA was a huge bubble as well as a hype place created by a combination of media marketing and Geoff.
 
Secu said:
I have always believed that Nintendo's willingness to participate in TGA is due to Reggie and Geoff's personal relationship.
Click to expand...
I also think its a mismatch. Nintendo usually make gameplay focused games while Keighley is big on cinematic AAA games, so Nintendo presenting stuff like Peach showtime on summer games fest while everyone else drops their cinematic movie games is not exactly the best match.
 
Danny said:
I also think its a mismatch. Nintendo usually make gameplay focused games while Keighley is big on cinematic AAA games, so Nintendo presenting stuff like Peach showtime on summer games fest while everyone else drops their cinematic movie games is not exactly the best match.
Click to expand...
With Reggie's resignation, Nintendo significantly reduced its association with Geoff.
This is based on the gradual decrease in Nintendo's participation in TGA over the past few years.
 
Secu said:
With Reggie's resignation, Nintendo significantly reduced its association with Geoff.
This is based on the gradual decrease in Nintendo's participation in TGA over the past few years.
Click to expand...
Yeah i think soon we will be at a point where Nintendo will not even drop DLC news in Geoff's shows, they will put everything only on directs.
 
0
Secu said:
And public data will only reduce these controversies, not increase them.
Click to expand...
You put too much faith in gamers.

You can also pretty much see which outlet voted what when they pick their own GOTY on their own website anyways.

Aufhebung RPG said:
The tragic truth is that the 2020 TGA as the Alex that did wonders with VR interactions couldn't even get a nomination in the end, and a lot of what has happened so far makes me think that the TGA was a huge bubble as well as a hype place created by a combination of media marketing and Geoff.
Click to expand...
Alyx was acclaimed, yes. But it was also a VR game which limits its exposure to the voting pool. It's totally understandable why it didn't show up. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if it just barely missed getting nominated at 7th or 8th place. There isn't some weird vendetta against certain games because of Geoff or marketing. Hell, Geoff himself was actually involved in Alyx to some degree.
 
I think it would be cool to get some sorta Mega-Event or two that would replace E3, I don't think Geoff is the answer.

I'd like there to be maybe 1-2 events as opposed to what's happening now when there are a thousand various Indie showcases, publishers doing their own thing, console directs, and the Game Fest. Where are the best games gonna be announced? Where will you see your anitcipated title? Who knows!

Although concentrating all that in Keighley's hands would be a disaster, and I'd rather he step away from doing any kind of event at all, considering his constant reluctance to call anything out, and basically being a marketer with 0 charisma.
 
You put too much faith in gamers.
Click to expand...
I really can't imagine who would be harmed by public data, except for unfair media.
You flatter the media and Geoff too much.
Publicity is just a small gesture for them, it won't harm anyone.
 
IMO, one of the reason that game industries going to an unsustainable AAA route, is TGA praising it.

And thats one of the reason Oscar wont always giving their highest reward to commercial flim. They want to praise creative work, but not high budget.
 
Last edited:
It's basically an industry shaped bubble, if the industry thinks it needs the hype of the TGA to satisfy the shameless desires of the big companies and mainstream media, I'd say that's probably where it's going wrong, both of last year's GOTY contenders didn't innovate in any substantial way, Baldur's Gate 3 was a repeat of the high-freedom crpgs of the 90's, and TOTK took the building systems of Besiege and MC and put them into an open world, I'd think it's sad if this is as far as the industry can see the "limits" of what can be achieved, indie gaming just can't seem to be brought to the attention of the wider community.
 
Secu said:
With Reggie's resignation, Nintendo significantly reduced its association with Geoff.
This is based on the gradual decrease in Nintendo's participation in TGA over the past few years.
Click to expand...
I think theres three reasons as do why Nintendo doesn’t like showcasing their games at Geoff shows.
  1. The games Nintendo showcase are vastly different then the industry’s and would be weird to place it, when TGA game announcement are often FPS shooters.
  2. When Nintendo does a direct the whole showcase is talked about and the spotlight will be on them, it’s one of the reasons why Nintendo are able to hype up games like Xenoblade since it’s fits, meanwhile at a Geoff show it would be out of place and more people wouldn’t take interest
  3. Nintendo prefers being in there own bubble and showcasing games on these shows would undermine the games, since those aren’t realistic visual and the comparison between Nintendo competitors would be huge and people would look down on them and sadly clown it.
 
Secu said:
I really can't imagine who would be harmed by public voting, except for unfair media.
You flatter the media and Geoff too much.
Publicity is just a small gesture for them, it won't harm anyone.
Click to expand...
It's really just not a common thing in general with award shows to reveal who voted for who, along with percentages. It's not just TGA. Revealing that much information would just be asking for more chaos. I mean, look at things that actually matter like government elections.
 
JorgenRaft said:
It's really just not a common thing in general with award shows to reveal who voted for who, along with percentages. It's not just TGA. Revealing that much information would just be asking for more chaos. I mean, look at things that actually matter like government elections.
Click to expand...
Explaining what rules are and how they are executed is not related.
They need to list who voted for whom after each award, no matter where.

I am curious about which media voted Paper Mario as the best family game. So, I can treat their words as bullshit.

Edit: Just realized there might be ambiguity here, what I mean is that after each TGA, it's okay anywhere.
 
Derachi said:
This feels like when you see a headline like “Famous Actor Wants to Play Marvel Super Hero X in the MCU!” and you read the story and it’s literally “during an interview we asked Actor if they’d want to play Marvel Super Hero X in the MCU and they said ‘sure I guess.’”

Of course he wants Nintendo involved. It would be newsworthy if he didn’t.
Click to expand...
See also "developer wants character in Smash" and the interview is just "yeah no we'd love to have our Scrimblo/SwordGuy in Smash, why wouldn't we"

Like, has anyone ever actually publicly said "I do not want that"?
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
It's basically an industry shaped bubble, if the industry thinks it needs the hype of the TGA to satisfy the shameless desires of the big companies and mainstream media, I'd say that's probably where it's going wrong, both of last year's GOTY contenders didn't innovate in any substantial way, Baldur's Gate 3 was a repeat of the high-freedom crpgs of the 90's, and TOTK took the building systems of Besiege and MC and put them into an open world, I'd think it's sad if this is as far as the industry can see the "limits" of what can be achieved, indie gaming just can't seem to be brought to the attention of the wider community.
Click to expand...
Personally, innovation doesn't always mean a good/fun game. Small iterations can also make a previously unattractive genre or game become attractive so I don't think what you're saying has anything to with what makes a good game of the year. Besides people's tastes are different. A general award such as this would always skew towards the most popular games.
 
0
chablo said:
Would it really be so bad for Nintendo to prticipate in some of these events (TGA, TGS and this)?
I feel like some of the audience is not gonna watch their Nintendo Directs and some software might make sense to show off elsewere as well.

But it feels like the opposite, like Nintendo is tightening the control of their IP, marketing and partners. There might be a reason they have been around for 135 years after all.
Click to expand...
At least for TGS Nintendo is never officially invited. The history between the two is weird. They are there unofficially though & have a direct around that time anyway.
 
Bonejack said:
From how i understand it, there's the "main event" that's kinda like a 3rd party + MS + Sony showcase, and the official partners of the SGF can have their own events under the "roof" of it.

Basically, Geoff telling folks "Either be at my event, or do your own, as you wish. Just slap my marketing on top of it."
Click to expand...
Is SGF the new E3 or trying to mimic it? I’ve never followed it.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
At least for TGS Nintendo is never officially invited. The history between the two is weird. They are there unofficially though & have a direct around that time anyway.
Click to expand...
Isn't Tokyo game show originally Playstation and their close third party partners showcase while Nintendo had their own alternative spaceworld showcase? Only problem is that the Nintendo spaceworld was shut down while TGS continued, leaving Nintendo with no showcase of their own in Japan.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
On a point not entirely relevant to the topic, does anyone understand the TGA judging rules, the fact that all the awards went cleanly in favor of Baldur's Gate 3 last year is mind-boggling to me, and I'm not saying that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't GOTY worthy, but I've basically rarely seen such a unanimous GOTY
Click to expand...
On paper it's a 50/50 split between a bunch of gaming outlets and the "general voting public" for each award individually with a few voting categories dedicated to just the latter (mostly the ones that aren't for video games).

In practice, the outlet vote kinda dominates because the gaming public is generally too diverse to really come together on "one game" (unless there's some silly protest voting going on). That gets you into the hairy business of how the outlets vote, although there's a few observable patterns.
  1. Remakes don't win the "prestige" awards (GOTY is the big one). Sequels usually don't either unless the sequel is pretty much entirely independent (anthology-style sequel).
  2. Recency bias is a heavy factor; Sony often releases games past the deadline and if the game isn't a total dud, they tend to get a lot of awards just because the game is fresh in people's minds. Similarly, releasing a game in January might as well mean it won't ever win any awards whatsoever.
  3. Winners are more chosen by how much they push the narrative TGA prefers about the industry rather than the "art" involved with the creation of the product itself. Pretty blatantly visible with nominees too; certain categories make no sense for what's nominated in them and I can count on one hand the amount of indie games on TGA that have actually been talked about by people vis-a-vis a bunch of stuff that nobody's ever heard of.
As for the core narrative; TGA mainly exists to push the message "gaming is always improving". There's always a prettier or a fancier game, the industry is never in a lull and game developers always are innovating. That's a large part as to why the Dorito Pope doesn't actually talk about any of the serious problems in the industry besides the most token nods; they detract from the message and it'll cause the big corporations to not come back next year. (Insert Disco Elysium quote about criticism of capitalism here if you're so inclined.)

That's also why Baldur's Gate 3 won so many prizes; it "revitalised" a long dormant genre in ways that were seen by the public at large as deeply innovative for the genre. By contrast, the other nominees for GOTY were sequels (TOTK, Spider Man 2), remakes (RE4) or isn't seen as a graphical powerhouse game (Mario Wonder, which probably has the most innovative game design out of these nominees). It's not unearned, the game is pretty good, but the moment I saw the nominees it was instantly obvious what the winner was going to be.

That predictability and aggressive positive message pushing in selecting winners is also why TGA lacks a lot of prestige compared to smaller award shows like BAFTA and DICE, who can sometimes just give their awards to a game that innovates in ways that aren't "prettier graphics".
 
Probably not in Doug Bowser's best interest to form that relationship. At least from the NA side of things.

Reggie always seemed different in that way.
 
0
rêverie said:
i've never really understood the hatred for this guy on fami. is there a specific thing he did that was panned or is it just that he's generally annoying and has a punchable face?
Click to expand...
While I doubt it's the reason everyone else dislikes him, there's something kinda funny about him being fired for publishing a negative review, only to turn right around and become the gaming industry equivalent of the Mouth of Sauron.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


Back
Top Bottom