BlueManifest
Bob-omb
It’s either botw 2 or an unannounced Mario gameYou took the words right out of mymouthkeyboard. One of these two feel like it will be the first game to showcase this new Switch.
It’s either botw 2 or an unannounced Mario gameYou took the words right out of mymouthkeyboard. One of these two feel like it will be the first game to showcase this new Switch.
Backwards.
Compatibility.
Just because there were other options doesn't mean that BC wasn't the reason they stuck with IBM.
That's the answer... it's backwards compatibility. They wouldn't have stuck with IBM and PPC if they didn't just have one of the most successful consoles ever based on that architecture. It's really the only reason cause as you stated WHY else would they stay with IBM? there's no other answers.
All the predictions sound so good that I can't believe them... But at the same time I'm all in, baby!Far more impressive than even the most wildly optimistic expectations.
And I'm not actually kidding.
Let me correct you right there.Correct me if I’m wrong, but the pervasive idea here is that we expect portable power mode to be pretty similar to Steam Deck power, no?
NoHas Nate said when the new podcast will drop?
I worry that if they present it as a "pro" style device, and let's say call it the Switch+, then they would have the opposite issue in a couple of years time. People would have been happily buying the cheaper regular Switch thinking that the Switch+ is only for people who want to play in 4K or play a handful of 3rd party exclusives, and then Nintendo turns around and says they're only supporting Switch+ from now on. At this point I think they're better off presenting it at a successor, and just trying to be very clear with expectations, along the lines of "This is the next Switch, but don't worry, we'll still be supporting the original model for some time".
that's literally what they did ... they built the wii hardware into the Wii U hardware in such a way it was expensive and underpowered.
The wii GPU is actually it's own little block if I remember correctly ....
I'm reminded that they spent like 2 years saying the Switch wasn't a replacement for the 3DS lol. So we'll probably see that happen again.
Yeah nintendo usually has some sort of cutting edge something in their products... like glasses free 3d or wireless streaming to gamepad ( i'm still blown away by how low latency that was)...I was told much of the cutting edge tech and cost went into the tablet, no?
I don’t like the rap Nintendo gets either. I thought the tech in the Wii U was very impressive in 2012. I loved off tv play and asynchronous gaming. I know I was a minority on that opinion lol, but still.
The Switch launched as the most powerful portable console ever. That’s Nintendo using cutting edge edge mobile tech.
When people complain Nintendo always skimps out and is cheap in hardware…they mean in all the ways it doesn’t perform as a high end traditional home 3rd party gaming machine.
PS4 Pro is irrelevant to what it would take to get games to 4k. There is no fixed amount of power it takes to render a game at 4k, it's all highly dependent on what each individual game is trying to accomplish.I dunno anything about how hard/easy it was to make BC work well enough, I’m pretty sure they figured it out though.
I was talking about native power. The consensus was around ps4 pro power docked? Well, that system hardly does 4K/60fps either (for the bigger scale games at least). It has to use its own upscaling techniques to get near that. (I get Drake has a much better CPU, but still.)
I was responding to the “overkill” statement. The architecture, to me, seems perfectly good to promise 4K/60fps gaming across the board (if that is indeed the main selling point of this new model)
Is it “overkill” to run 1-2 Switch with this? Sure. Is it “overkill” to get BOTW2 and Xenoblade 3 with 4K textures and steady 60fps? With a ~25w power draw? I don’t think so. Red Dead Redemption 2 is a rumored Switch title…what about a game like that? Is this overkill?
What could have Nvidia offered Nintendo that wasn’t Orin/ampere based that would have offered 4K/60fps switch gaming? Nvidia start ramping up older gpu+cpu architecture production again?
I dunno, I could be way wrong but I’m pretty sure going with Orin/ampere was the best option cause that’s where Nvidia is now. And I’m sure there is a perfectly good reason why going with 12SM at lower clock potentional being better than 6SM with higher clocks.
I am certainly not going to let the spec sheet differentials convince me Nintendo plans on treating this as a next gen successor type device lol
4K and no AAPokémon with some Anti Aliasing I hope.
It’s criminal.
Enhanced EditionMetro Exodus
Let me correct you right there.
If the leaks are true, it seems to be at least 3 times more powerful (in theoretically brute force), and that's without DLSS in play.
Revenue also went up in FY20/21, which is why the percentage is so low. You switched from using a dollar figure increase to a percentage of revenue. Compare dollar figures to dollar figures. Here, let me help:While true that the R&D spending by Nintendo in FY20/21 was $250 million more than they spent FY17/18 or FY18/19, it should be noted that back for those revisions they spent ~11% of their revenue those years on R&D.
For last year, they spent only ~5% of their revenue.
Contextually, it’s not as big of a deal you are making it out to be here.
Like I said earlier, Nintendo now knows the value of an upgrade model mid way to keep engagement of a system high in its later life. This investment will pay dividends in Switch software sales 2022-2027 (they even alluded to this in their last investors meeting)
You talk about how you don’t like the bad rap Nintendo gets about the perception of cheaping out on hardware, but you’re more than happy to perpetuate the similar myth that 3rd-parties care about what hardware enhancements can do for their software far more than Nintendo does. How incongruous of you.You listed things I imagine 3rd party devs care about than Nintendo, tbh.
Like I said, the focus on what this does different when Nintendo releases it will be the graphics/performance upgrade. That’s it. It will be seen as that.
Also, if Nintendo wants to utilize the tensor cores for AI (maybe AR?) gameplay that the other Switches can’t do? Then of course they will make exclusives for it. I expect some more “niche” titles to be exclusive to this new model.
I was talking about the majority of Nintendo efforts will be playable across all systems.
Wide and slow GPU compared to the narrow and fast Deck GPU. Also, it will use Arm instead of Zen 2 x86, which should be much more efficient (And also clocked slower). That's how Nintendo will more or less match SteamDeck performance while in portable. Docked, when the silicon can stretch it's legs, will provide performance way beyond SteamDeck.I’d have assumed Steam Deck was all fairly new in its design - is there something I’m missing here? Are we actually expecting this system to be:
?
- The same size as current Switch; much smaller than Deck
- Use less power than Deck
- And be more powerful than the Deck
Seems a tad pipe dreamy. Cool if it actually delivers
I’d have assumed Steam Deck was all fairly new in its design - is there something I’m missing here? Are we actually expecting this system to be:
?
- The same size as current Switch; much smaller than Deck
- Use less power than Deck
- And be more powerful than the Deck
Seems a tad pipe dreamy. Cool if it actually delivers
Wide and slow GPU compared to the narrow and fast Deck GPU. Also, it will use Arm instead of Zen 2 x86, which should be much more efficient (And also clocked slower). That's how Nintendo will more or less match SteamDeck performance while in portable. Docked, when the silicon can stretch it's legs, will provide performance way beyond SteamDeck.
Well we definitely didn't see it coming. We're still trying to figure it out ourselves.
We just know some of the 'is' not much at all of the how.
I do know a bigger, but lower clocked processor delivers more performance at less power and heat.
I dunno, I'd be surprised if there wasn't tbh. Just looking at the company history in regards to upgrade devices, they've never shied away from having an exclusive or two. Presumably this is also a successor of sorts, so there would be even more of an interest in doing so from their devs/partners wanting to make something that really takes advantage of the new hardware. Not saying anything massive, could just be a small thing, but at the same time I could envision a Xenoblade 3DS type release as well.Unless it's something AI/AR related that simply couldn't be done on base Switch I seriously doubt this.
I'd love a new Face Raiders though.
Xenoblade 3DS worked because they had games from more powerful devices that could be ported. This is not the case anymore.I dunno, I'd be surprised if there wasn't tbh. Just looking at the company history in regards to upgrade devices, they've never shied away from having an exclusive or two. Presumably this is also a successor of sorts, so there would be even more of an interest in doing so from their devs/partners wanting to make something that really takes advantage of the new hardware. Not saying anything massive, could just be a small thing, but at the same time I could envision a Xenoblade 3DS type release as well.
"Soon."Has Nate said when the new podcast will drop?
Nintendo would think twice before releasing a $499 machine.
RDR2 is my personal most wanted. It’s a weird one that I bought for my PS4 Pro and never actually put the disc in. The discourse about it being a tedious game put me off before I could start. I wasn’t in the mood for something that big as a TV only thing when it dropped anyway - was suckered in by the hype.
I could see myself giving it a lot more time with hybrid flexibility.
Ah. I see so a machine worthy of KH collection non-cloud. That’s cool.
Like Pikmin 4 or the Battle Frontier in ORAS"Soon."
Yes, have you seen inside the Steam Deck? Using ARM means the CPU is only consuming 2 or 3 watts, while the Ryzen cores could use 15 watts to themselves.I’d have assumed Steam Deck was all fairly new in its design - is there something I’m missing here? Are we actually expecting this system to be:
?
- The same size as current Switch; much smaller than Deck
- Use less power than Deck
- And be more powerful than the Deck
Seems a tad pipe dreamy. Cool if it actually delivers
I think there might be a point where such a port would require too many compromises, and not to mention lots of development time, effort, and budget, lest Nintendo themselves are willing to spend for it like what they did with the GTA Collection on Switch.This won’t be a popular opinion either, but I don’t see why, if the RDR2 rumor for Switch is true, they won’t have a version also running on the base Switch as well. A “Witcher 3” type effort.
I don't think Nintendo spent anything for the GTA collection other than shoulder the physical distribution costs. T2 has been a pretty good supporter of the system and the collection doesn't have a strong money making componentI think there might be a point where such a port would require too many compromises, and not to mention lots of development time, effort, and budget, lest Nintendo themselves are willing to spend for it like what they did with the GTA Collection on Switch.
But anything's possible.
You cant know if Nintendo will expects growth in sales this year, because they will talk about (2022. sales) at full years results (at end of april).
I dont think that. real question is why you think that this new Switch hardware would be sell at loss with price point of $399?
My bet is $399 price point, maybe at worst case will be $449, but there is no way that will be $499.
Like I wrote, this will not be simple revision or ugprade, its full next gen Switch (based on current rumors) in any way, not to mention that at launch will you have some exclusive games (Nate said some 3rd party games), and by time more and more games will be exclusive until games will stop be developed for current models.
I wrote that biggest difference compared to PS4/PS5 will be that Nintendo will continue making OLED model for around 2 years after new Switch launch.
I don't see why they couldn't stop OLED production around 2 years after this new model launch, or Nintendo stop releasing (or at least most of its games) games for current Switch models also around 2 years after this new model launch.
Well, one thing is sure, if this leaks and rumors are true, no why they will market it like simple revision, because its obvious will be much more than PS4 Pro or New 3DS.
Actually Nintendo always making money on hardware.
Again, you keep ignoring point that this is not simple revision (at least based on leaks and rumors), this is not 3DS XL, 2DS, New 3DS...Switch Lite, Switch OLED...type of revision, this is much more than, its full next gen hardware with some next gen features.
Point is that you don't make that type of investment just to make another simple revision, we talking about full next gen hardware in every sense.
IMO sales numbers will mostly depend from supplies, but 15m per year for 1st two years is definitely possible.
Why not,?
You clearly made your mind up, so I don’t know why im bothering. But your way to hung up about that one quote about AMD engineers figuring out ways Nintendo didn’t think of. That was at the micro level, where they wanted to include a circuit for Wii, but AMD found a way to do it with just 1 circuit. It wasn’t like AMD changes Nintendos mind about BC method, it was just they found slightly more elegant engineering solutions than Nintendo would have thought of.But IBM was drunk, covered in spilled booze, wearing the lampshade, and humping the plant in the corner of the room at the industry party at the time.
IBM was a horrible partner at the time and they could have just gotten the chips to plop in for bc from them. IBM would have been more than happy to make just that deal, as their other partners were distancing themselves because they couldn't deliver a competitive CPU.
And then Nintendo's like 'yeah, that's what we want! Cause remember five years ago when boozey the plant bumper was hot stuff?'
I just don't see bc trumping all that, when there were other options.
Were there legal obligations from the past still in effect? Contract/partnership? Anything else makes more sense to me.
We'll never know what happened internally, and I think one could imagine a scenario that led to a more powerful Switch model being delayed. But you're right that this specific Switch model, using T239/GA10F, never could have come out any earlier than late this year.I don't understand why some think the Switch 4k was delayed, sure, the OLED could have, but this one relied entirely on the development of the Orin chip line, which is partially finalized now, and I doubt Orin was too impacted by COVID. I guess ignorance could be the reason, but in any case, the only Switch Pro that exists are the Switches that use Mariko, which are the red box one, the Lite and Oled. They could have been more powerful, but it all went to efficiency gains for longer battery life.
So the Switch 4k, being a giant generational leap from raw efficiency + DLSS + some RT is more than enough to be considered a new gen, even if Nintendo says otherwise at some point. This was not going to come out any time before Orin was completed, as it's a variant of it, thus the Switch 4k was never intended for last year or any other of the previous years, but this/early next year (I guess it could get delayed more if there are issues, Nate will probably tell us more about this).
Well, more closer to 10x. Also without DLSS. Only adding to your point.Let me correct you right there.
If the leaks are true, it seems to be at least 3 times more powerful (in theoretically brute force), and that's without DLSS in play.
PS3 was also discontinued in 2017. And it’s a min of 87.41M, it probably did a bit more like 89-90M. It lived a long life.I feel like this needs to be said once more. The PS2 launched in 2000. The PS3 launched in 2006. The PS2 was discontinued 2013. The PS2 sold over 155 million units worldwide and as of February 2022, PS3 had sold 87.41 million units across the world.
This might actually be less a joke than most here realize. Nintendo could very well just solve the backwards compatibility/cross-gen issue by making the OG Switch version of new games cloud only, or at least allow third party developers to do so.Ah. I see so a machine worthy of KH collection non-cloud. That’s cool.
This was from the financial results briefing just a month ago:
Furukawa: “we will aim for a sixth year of growth, something never before experienced with our dedicated video game platform business.
Our aim of a sixth year of growth is underpinned by three factors.
Yes, this isn’t growth specific to just hardware units YoY…but it does indicate Nintendo is bullish on year 6 and what new model options do to help momentum (they don’t feel they hit the peak of the system last year)
OLED Switch, they feel, is responsible for the growth seen in year 5. I don’t believe they feel OLED alone will keep momentum growth for year 6. I would have to imagine they they are talking about another model option in Q3/Q4 to act similar to the OLED from this last year.
Their hardware guidance is going to be conservative and hesitant cause of a bunch of factors I imagine, so I’m not expecting to be able to glean much from that,
Only because just the OLED screen and 32 gb extra storage made the Mariko Switch $50 more.
This new model will have the same screen…plus a bunch of newly minted modern tech in it?
From what I understand Nintendo had to price the OLED at $350 in order to not have it be a loss per unit sale?
I think it will sell very well at $499, tbh.
A $400 Switch would still only appeal to a small portion of gamers who really need Switch games to look/run better than they currently do.
Yea I guess I’m gonna have to wait and see what all these exclusives launching along side this new model are I suppose before I will change my opinion on this.
They stopped making 3ds systems all together 3 years after the Switch launched. The 3ds had a 9 year lifespan, in the end.
Im just taking Nintendo’s words to heart when they keep talking about extending the Switch well beyond we we think of a conventional hardware lifecycle.
Launching a successor 6 years in, still supporting the systems with games for another couple of years, but severely ramping down releases on them and focusing more and more output on the new model…and then stopping production of the previous devices 2-3 years later…is, like, exactly how they approached their last portable console lifecycle.
So that’s why I don’t expect this with the Switch.
I’m not ignoring all the hardware stuff the new model apparently has. It’s amazing to me as well.
I’m just expecting Nintendo to mainly only use this hardware to make Nintendo Switch games look/run better.
Sure, there will be a couple cases like 1-2 Switch or Labo where Nintendo wants to show off the unique properties of the hardware…but they will still mostly ignore those properties for most their titles.
It’s absolutely worth the investment if this upgrade model keeps engagement in the Switch library high for the next 4-5 years where it otherwise would decline without it, for sure it’s worth it.
If Nintendo sells 15-20 million 4K Switch’s it’s first year (like the ps5 and ps4 did), and all the other models sell only 1-3 million combined over the next 2 years (like the ps3 and ps4 did after their successor launched)…then I will agree with you.
I don’t expect the 4k Switch to represent 90% of Switch’s sold for the two years after it launches.
I expect it to be more in line with ps4 pro/One X %’s
Furukawa states in the most recent financials that the OLED has a smaller profit margin that the original Switch, so no that extra $50 doesn’t make the OLED more profitable.Point that Switch OLED has $50 higher price point than regular Switch doesnt mean that cost $50 cost more in production, it could easily cost only $20-30 more than regular Switch but they make it having $50 higher price point and actually having higher profit margin compared to regular Switch.
Furukawa states in the most recent financials that the OLED has a smaller profit margin that the original Switch, so no that extra $50 doesn’t make the OLED more profitable.
One implication of this line of thought is that the Switch might stick around on the shelves long after the succ is introduced. And I am ok with that.This might actually be less a joke than most here realize. Nintendo could very well just solve the backwards compatibility/cross-gen issue by making the OG Switch version of new games cloud only, or at least allow third party developers to do so.
If the modding scene has people with mobile phones emulating the switch, I don’t think this device with its supposed specs is going to have any issue when Nintendo is the one making the device along with nVidia. They have the documentation of the device.Is there any possibility for Drake to run Switch games at 4K through Emulated BC?
The CPU side should be native but the GPU part could be emulated (like SMG on the Mario collection) out is that not even feasible?
So you are saying that Furukawa lied in an official Q&A with stock holders?Don't take PR statements like absolute truth, they are saying things that fits them currently most, for instance like they were saying that Switch is not replacement for 3DS, or no new 3DS model and than 2 week later new model is annouced..
So he will definitely not say it has higher profit margin than regular Switch and in same time has $50 higher price point.
I really have hard time believing that basically OLED screen and 32GB more internal memory makes even $50 difference not to mention more than that,
OLED screens are now cheaper than ever, I mean you have now phones with 4GB/128GB (RAM/internal) and OLED screen for less than $150.
My guess is that difference cost is maybe around $30.
Yeah I don't blame you for thinking thisI’d have assumed Steam Deck was all fairly new in its design - is there something I’m missing here? Are we actually expecting this system to be:
?
- The same size as current Switch; much smaller than Deck
- Use less power than Deck
- And be more powerful than the Deck
Seems a tad pipe dreamy. Cool if it actually delivers
So you are saying that Furukawa lied in an official Q&A with stock holders?
Having a smaller profit margin, doesnt necesarily mean its not more profitable.Furukawa states in the most recent financials that the OLED has a smaller profit margin that the original Switch, so no that extra $50 doesn’t make the OLED more profitable.
It is likely that even though the profit per oled sold is lower than that of the normal Switch, they are still a good chunk of profit.
Switch's technology will have been getting cheaper along the years (enough to release a Lite version), and they still don't reduce the price. The console probably have a very big profit per unit sold
I think you are the one that needs proof for a statement like that.Well if they lied before, I don't see why wouldnt again, I mean they cant prove it in any case.
Dont forget that Bloomberg reported that Switch OLED costs are only around $10 higher compared to regular Switch,
of course Nintendo deny that report (because raises question why selling than $50 more!?), but I really cant see how can cost $50 more than regular Switch.
There is going to be a problem with direct comparison with the deck. I fully expect Switch 4k to be more powerful when compared Watt for Watt. However, I expect most comparisons to be made against deck Maximum clocks, even if you get barely about one hour of battery on the deck at full power.I’d have assumed Steam Deck was all fairly new in its design - is there something I’m missing here? Are we actually expecting this system to be:
?
- The same size as current Switch; much smaller than Deck
- Use less power than Deck
- And be more powerful than the Deck
Seems a tad pipe dreamy. Cool if it actually delivers
Don't expect that. The difference is going to be much smaller. Probably significantly less than 50%.Let me correct you right there.
If the leaks are true, it seems to be at least 3 times more powerful (in theoretically brute force), and that's without DLSS in play.
1. YesI’d have assumed Steam Deck was all fairly new in its design - is there something I’m missing here? Are we actually expecting this system to be:
?
- The same size as current Switch; much smaller than Deck
- Use less power than Deck
- And be more powerful than the Deck
Seems a tad pipe dreamy. Cool if it actually delivers