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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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ILikeFeet said:
I disagree, the higher the ceiling, the more room for scalability. we're already seeing fully path traced games on hardware that isn't advertised for it and be "playable"
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Not when the ceiling finds itself rift apart by a potential 20+ TFLOPS difference, this time without Nvidia's tricks to offset the difference.
 
Concernt said:
Tegra T239 would absolutely be capable of VR experiences, and it's likely that like Nintendo Switch, there will be an official "VR" mode. However, like Nintendo, it's a safe bet this will be minor, come later, and not be on the same level of interactivity as the quest. It would be more like an immersive stereoscopic view than a true VR experience.

If you want VR, right now, and don't mind Meta as a company, the Quest 3 is 100% the best option. It's the biggest VR player at the moment.
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I wish Metroid Prime 4 has a VR mode like the resident evil games on PSVR2, Players that don't like VR can play the game as normal, but you'd have the option of a VR version if you want to experience the game like that.
 
redmutineer75 said:
Wasn't the whole push for 8K in the PS5 so Sony could sell their 8K sets to PlayStation owners? Seems like a poor decision on their part to abandon the format.
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The only reason I want 8K is so I can have a desktop with 4 4K windows open at once, because that gives me a very real productivity advantage in the field I'm in.

8K as a market unfortunately isn't really growing (outside of China where there's social and political factors causing growth), and for gaming it's so far beyond the pale of diminishing returns I'm not sure why people are bothering. 4K looks so flippin' good at living room distances, I don't see the average Joe jumping on 8K until manufacturers make it so cheap that it's a "might as well" thing rather than a "I really want it" thing.

8K for gaming feels like a waste of resources - unless you're using upscaling. I know this sounds odd, but Nintendo is now Nvidia's console platform, and Nvidia loooves showing off their upscaling, so I would be surprised if Switch 3 didn't jump on 8K out the gate using DLSS [Another Version], just because they can, and for people with 4K sets they get incredible anti-aliasing out of it.
 
8K is a nice option for clean integer upscales of 720p, 1080p, 1440p, and 2160p, and all the resolutions these divide into.

It's a shame most televisions don't even perform nearest neighbor upscales. If a 8K set exists that enabled these, you could have multiple 'native' resolutions with no quality loss, and still enjoy the small, small percentage of 8K content.
 
ILikeFeet said:
the example I mentioned is actually a larger difference than 20TFLOPs though
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Hm, yeah. I mean actual compute ones, not the dual issue bs that's been pushed lately for marketing. What's about to happen next year with Switch 2 is basically lightning in a bottle, AMD skimping on AI and RT has screwed them big time. For the time of Switch 3 though, I'm not sure if they'll be that behind, especially when Sony is already lending them a hand to put their solutions in good shape.
 
Serif said:
8K is a nice option for clean integer upscales of 720p, 1080p, 1440p, and 2160p, and all the resolutions these divide into.

It's a shame most televisions don't even perform nearest neighbor upscales. If a 8K set exists that enabled these, you could have multiple 'native' resolutions with no quality loss, and still enjoy the small, small percentage of 8K content.
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THIS is one of the reasons I'm planning to get 8K. So many options...

It also scales perfectly from 120, 144, 240, 360, 480 and 540. With direct display options for all resolutions it would be ace.
 
Samuspet said:
The best thing about Drake potentially being out before the next Pokémon game is that it will at least look and run like a Switch 1 game and not a PS2 game.
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no way gamefreak is going to let that huge playerbase off so quickly, prepare for a ps2 game with a stable frame rate via a boost bc mode or smth at best
 
neon said:
no way gamefreak is going to let that huge playerbase off so quickly, prepare for a ps2 game with a stable frame rate via a boost bc mode or smth at best
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Honestly with how good their games CAN look- Let's Go Pikachu, Legends Arceus in Obsidian Fieldlands' coast, The Terrarium and Area Zero in Scarlet and Violet, they definitely have the chops for something stylistic but nice looking. I'd say the next "Legends" game could be cross-gen, although I can't discount the idea it could be next gen only, but Gen 10 will be properly Next Gen Switch, but I wouldn't expect that until 2026, for the 30th anniversary.

I think what will happen is Black and White/2 will be outsourced and cross gen in the most token ways, like a higher resolution and that's it. Legends Unova is more of a wildcard, but I think cross gen is a bit more likely for it, giving them a more or less certain user base in Switch while allowing the Devs to have that "transitional" game Game Freak needs. Or it could be next gen exclusive and Game Freak does NOTHING cross gen, and that would surprise me!
 
Foltzie said:
Again. 8K is on the PS5 box today.
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It's more a tongue-in-cheek reference when Sony was touting Full HD 1080p with the PS3. Yeah, it could do it, and some games certainly did. But it was more often than not where games were below 1080p, some at max 720p.

Concernt said:
They were touting 8K the first time...
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"This time...we really mean it!"

ILikeFeet said:
that was part of the original leak if I remember correctly.

that said, not sure how useful that will even be given manufacturing difficulties of 8K
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To me, 8k is a fool's errand for gaming in general, and it's not easy for me to say that. The jump from 480p to 1080p was absolutely massive, and it felt massive. While 1080p to 4k is a big jump for sure (4x resolution increase), a lot of that has more to do with the additions of HDR, Wide Color Gamut, VRR, etc. All of that can exist on a 1080p panel, and look fantastic.

It also didn't help TVs made the leap from 1080p to 4K rather than have a stop-gap to 1440p like what Computer monitors have used for years, and still continue on a regular basis. Now they want to continue that same leap in resolution-a 4x increase, from 4k to 8k, and who knows when we'll have our first 16k resolution TV.

Call me old fashioned, or whatever, but this constant chasing for more and more pixels, and higher resolutions are going to taper off, and probably sooner than later.
 
Concernt said:
Honestly with how good their games CAN look- Let's Go Pikachu, Legends Arceus in Obsidian Fieldlands' coast, The Terrarium and Area Zero in Scarlet and Violet, they definitely have the chops for something stylistic but nice looking. I'd say the next "Legends" game could be cross-gen, although I can't discount the idea it could be next gen only, but Gen 10 will be properly Next Gen Switch, but I wouldn't expect that until 2026, for the 30th anniversary.

I think what will happen is Black and White/2 will be outsourced and cross gen in the most token ways, like a higher resolution and that's it. Legends Unova is more of a wildcard, but I think cross gen is a bit more likely for it, giving them a more or less certain user base in Switch while allowing the Devs to have that "transitional" game Game Freak needs. Or it could be next gen exclusive and Game Freak does NOTHING cross gen, and that would surprise me!
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Yes but good visual requires more time, money, and people and the Pokémon company needs a new Pokémon generation every 3 years to sell merchandise band cards because that’s the most important part of the franchise.
 
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Shoulder said:
Call me old fashioned, or whatever, but this constant chasing for more and more pixels, and higher resolutions are going to taper off, and probably sooner than later.
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I'm hoping it tapers off sooner rather than later; none but the largest residential living rooms can justify an 8K set without burning money for shits n gigs. For the appreciable benefit of a 16K panel, you would need a theatre-sized room. There would be no practical purpose for any consumer-grade product to justify pushing that many 132+ million pixels. Full frame IMAX is 18K for heaven's sake

The sooner devs start pushing framerate stability over pixels (especially with tech like DLSS offloading that kind of heavy lifting), the better
 
Brofield said:
I'm hoping it tapers off sooner rather than later; none but the largest residential living rooms can justify an 8K set without burning money for shits n gigs. For the appreciable benefit of a 16K panel, you would need a theatre-sized room. There would be no practical purpose for any consumer-grade product to justify pushing that many 132+ million pixels. Full frame IMAX is 18K for heaven's sake

The sooner devs start pushing framerate stability over pixels (especially with tech like DLSS offloading that kind of heavy lifting), the better
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An interesting point that I saw regarding why resolution and HDR are prioritized over framerate is advertising. You can directly see the greater resolution and color gamut in a commercial, but most television is still at 24-30 fps in 60 Hz regions, 25 fps in 50 Hz regions. You can't directly show higher framerate if the broadcaster doesn't allow it. And that's not even talking about still images on ads and websites, where image quality and resolution are the only things you can show.
 
I still long for CRT-like motion clarity in flat panels with better BFI methods that don't destroy brightness and ramp up input-lag, or needing to ramp up to ridiculously high framerates.
 
redmutineer75 said:
An interesting point that I saw regarding why resolution and HDR are prioritized over framerate is advertising. You can directly see the greater resolution and color gamut in a commercial, but most television is still at 24-30 fps in 60 Hz regions, 25 fps in 50 Hz regions. You can't directly show higher framerate if the broadcaster doesn't allow it. And that's not even talking about still images on ads and websites, where image quality and resolution are the only things you can show.
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Broadcast Television is garbage anyway who cares it’s about it’s impact on streaming and Blu-ray movies and games.
 
redmutineer75 said:
An interesting point that I saw regarding why resolution and HDR are prioritized over framerate is advertising. You can directly see the greater resolution and color gamut in a commercial, but most television is still at 24-30 fps in 60 Hz regions, 25 fps in 50 Hz regions. You can't directly show higher framerate if the broadcaster doesn't allow it. And that's not even talking about still images on ads and websites, where image quality and resolution are the only things you can show.
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I've never actually heard that before, but it does make a lot of sense.

Can't think of the last time I bothered watching TV and could watch advertisements as a result, but it makes sense that it's still a ridiculously huge chunk of the marketing budget
 
Lancelot said:
Hm, yeah. I mean actual compute ones, not the dual issue bs that's been pushed lately for marketing. What's about to happen next year with Switch 2 is basically lightning in a bottle, AMD skimping on AI and RT has screwed them big time. For the time of Switch 3 though, I'm not sure if they'll be that behind, especially when Sony is already lending them a hand to put their solutions in good shape.
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Did you think no one would attempt to utilize machine learning hardware besides Nvidia? It was inevitable that this was going to happen. There is no real point in worrying about it. Whenever those platforms come out it will be up to Nintendo and Nvidia to come up with a solution. But AI upscaling was going to come to other platforms at some point. 7 years is a long time in processing. We'll see what the Switch 3 can do to match or exceed a PS5 when the time comes.
 
Brofield said:
I'm hoping it tapers off sooner rather than later; none but the largest residential living rooms can justify an 8K set without burning money for shits n gigs. For the appreciable benefit of a 16K panel, you would need a theatre-sized room. There would be no practical purpose for any consumer-grade product to justify pushing that many 132+ million pixels. Full frame IMAX is 18K for heaven's sake

The sooner devs start pushing framerate stability over pixels (especially with tech like DLSS offloading that kind of heavy lifting), the better
Click to expand...

Yeah. You would need a good 120-150" TV/Projector in the living room to justify 8k since 4k looks good even up to 100" or even more, depending on your distance. And regarding IMAX, it's a whole different beast when it comes to resolution. I'll never forget when I saw The Dark Knight for the first time, on an IMAX film projector no less. Could not believe the amount of detail present.

Mind you, we've had film formats much MUCH larger than 70mm, though they're regulated to Still cameras. Say IMAX (70mmx48.5mm) has a theoretical resolution of 16k for the sake of simplicity. Now compare that film stock to a large format film size like 4x5 (127mmx102mm). That's nearly 4x the size in terms of area. And assuming the resolution scales linearly, 4x5 would have a theoretical resolution of about 32k resolution! Granted, it's not as simple as that as there's other assumptions and nuances, but you get the idea.

Like you said, hope it tapers off sooner than later, though I'd be lying if I wasn't at least looking forward to someone taking sixteen 8k monitors to create a 32k resolution image. Probably Linus from LTT will give it a go because they can...
 
Lancelot said:
Hm, yeah. I mean actual compute ones, not the dual issue bs that's been pushed lately for marketing. What's about to happen next year with Switch 2 is basically lightning in a bottle, AMD skimping on AI and RT has screwed them big time. For the time of Switch 3 though, I'm not sure if they'll be that behind, especially when Sony is already lending them a hand to put their solutions in good shape.
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ML Upscaling and Frame Generation are answers for a real problem currently: slowdown of hardware scaling and rising costs of manufacturing. Consoles won't jump as high gen over gen anymore and the push for 8K won't become reality without upscaling. Switch 3 will be more than fine against PS6 or Xbox Next, even with ML upscaling. The higher the resolution pushed, the more scalable games will be.
 
Langstonboy said:
Yeah gimmicks like that don’t make sense in the modern day, people want “gimmicks” like Ps5 and it’s spacial audio and haptics and nvme ssd and hdr, because they enhance gameplay and make the game more fun and interesting. The ds and 3ds dual screens were mostly used for gimmicky nonsense other than Tomodachi Life (one of the best games ever made) and few others, but very few had done something truly great with it that it wouldn’t have been better to just have a single higher res screen and bigger battery and more powerful soc.
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Really disagree with this sentiment. The DS and 3DS did bring very unique and truely great games with it's "gimmicks". Ocarina of Time 3D, A Link Between Worlds, and even Kid Icarus Uprising all went above and beyond "gimmicky nonsense", not to mention the ton of DS games that made great use of that second screen like the Etrian Odyssey series, and I daresay some series wouldn't even have come to fruiting without it like The World Ends With You and Professor Layton. I resent such revisionist history that says the DS and 3DS features were mostly used for nothing but just system quirks.
 
The idea that touchscreen input has no value is honestly alien to me.
 
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DS was fully used and brought tons of new possibilities and games that were only possible due to it. Anyone saying that DS was used for nothing is being revisionist.

That being said, it's true that any console that aims to be competitive in current market needs to conform to a certain standard. It can't have disruptive gimmicks and there's really no place for them.
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
DS was fully used and brought tons of new possibilities and games that were only possible due to it. Anyone saying that DS was used for nothing is being revisionist.

That being said, it's true that any console that aims to be competitive in current market needs to conform to a certain standard. It can't have disruptive gimmicks and there's really no place for them.
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Disagree. There will always be room for disruption.
 
Foltzie said:
Agreed, the Switch itself was disruptive. The Series S is somewhat disruptive.
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NG Switch is a handheld with 4K and mesh shader capabilities. That's disruptive.

New unique control gimmicks that affect the design of the console? Absolutely not. Not after Wii U.
 
Shoulder said:
Yeah. You would need a good 120-150" TV/Projector in the living room to justify 8k since 4k looks good even up to 100" or even more, depending on your distance. And regarding IMAX, it's a whole different beast when it comes to resolution. I'll never forget when I saw The Dark Knight for the first time, on an IMAX film projector no less. Could not believe the amount of detail present.

Mind you, we've had film formats much MUCH larger than 70mm, though they're regulated to Still cameras. Say IMAX (70mmx48.5mm) has a theoretical resolution of 16k for the sake of simplicity. Now compare that film stock to a large format film size like 4x5 (127mmx102mm). That's nearly 4x the size in terms of area. And assuming the resolution scales linearly, 4x5 would have a theoretical resolution of about 32k resolution! Granted, it's not as simple as that as there's other assumptions and nuances, but you get the idea.

Like you said, hope it tapers off sooner than later, though I'd be lying if I wasn't at least looking forward to someone taking sixteen 8k monitors to create a 32k resolution image. Probably Linus from LTT will give it a go because they can...
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I can attest to this statement, I created a home theater in my basement with a Hisense ultra short throw 4k projector and 100" screen and let me tell you the movie quality is top notch. Watching everything 4k at 100in is just perfection in my eyes. I have hooked up my pc just to try gaming on the 100in screen and it's just a whole different gaming experience. It was expensive but this was years of me saving up money in order to make this purchase possible.

As far as 8k gaming goes, I did try it out and it's really nothing special...until developers include 8k assets in their games the jump to 8k isn't worth it. At least in the US most broadcasting/live television goes up to 1080p and most sporting events use 1080i. I have yet to see any movie release in 8k yet alone a 8k blue ray player yet in the market.

As far as I am concerned, getting a few select Nintendo game in 4k is perfectly fine with me. As if I wanted to play a high end AAA game it's what I have my pc for but as far as playing Nintendo games. I prefer to play on the actual hardware than to use an emulator. Although I do hope to see one day more cross progression games on the switch 2.
 
SiG said:
Disagree. There will always be room for disruption.
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Foltzie said:
Agreed, the Switch itself was disruptive. The Series S is somewhat disruptive.
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Not if you want 3P support. Switch itself isn't disruptive from a game design perspective. It's a bog standard console box that has 2 performance profiles. From a consumer point of view, it is. But not from a developer.

Disruptive would be something like Wii, DS or Wii U. Which required different game designs to cater to the different controller standard and most of the time required dedicated software for each console. And as we saw with Wii U, if your disruptive console is a fail, nobody will support it.

And even if your disruptive console is sucessful, 3P still won't support en masse because doing dedicated software for a single console isn't viable anymore. Costs are too high for that.

Hence why Switch is brilliant. At face value, it's a disruptive console that brings Nintendo like philosophy to consumers. However, for developers, it's just another bog standard box, not too different from Xbox and Playstation and that it can get the same game design from these consoles.

As Nintendo unified their hardware divisions and are still reliant on a single revenue source, it's in their best interest to play safe and keep up with the industry needs rather than going into another direction. Hence why disruptive hardware is a thing of the past for them.
 
Maxrunner said:
Sony is sure taking those claims of AAA being unsustainable in the industry to the chest han? Lets release more hardware because......
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Well I mean with more powerful hardware means higher budget for games to reach its potential which means trying to lock out games from coming to certain platforms.
 
Has nintendo ever done a console with no gimmicks after the n64? Gc with the handle, wii with motion controls, wii u with the tablet, switch with the hybrid design. I'm 99% sure we will see a new gimmick with I would bet my account on it.

Edit : forgot the virtual boy as well
 
Shoulder said:
It's more a tongue-in-cheek reference when Sony was touting Full HD 1080p with the PS3. Yeah, it could do it, and some games certainly did. But it was more often than not where games were below 1080p, some at max 720p.



"This time...we really mean it!"



To me, 8k is a fool's errand for gaming in general, and it's not easy for me to say that. The jump from 480p to 1080p was absolutely massive, and it felt massive. While 1080p to 4k is a big jump for sure (4x resolution increase), a lot of that has more to do with the additions of HDR, Wide Color Gamut, VRR, etc. All of that can exist on a 1080p panel, and look fantastic.

It also didn't help TVs made the leap from 1080p to 4K rather than have a stop-gap to 1440p like what Computer monitors have used for years, and still continue on a regular basis. Now they want to continue that same leap in resolution-a 4x increase, from 4k to 8k, and who knows when we'll have our first 16k resolution TV.

Call me old fashioned, or whatever, but this constant chasing for more and more pixels, and higher resolutions are going to taper off, and probably sooner than later.
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BOE showed a prototype of a 110" 16K TV at Displayweek this year. Even if the display itself was awful, maybe in that distant future TVs of those sizes will usually feature those resolutions.
 
lemonfresh said:
Has nintendo ever done a console with no gimmicks after the n64? Gc with the handle, wii with motion controls, wii u with the tablet, switch with the hybrid design. I'm 99% sure we will see a new gimmick with I would bet my account on it.
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If you're calling the handle on the GC a gimmick then arguably they've never released a gimmick-free console ever.
 
lemonfresh said:
Has nintendo ever done a console with no gimmicks after the n64? Gc with the handle, wii with motion controls, wii u with the tablet, switch with the hybrid design. I'm 99% sure we will see a new gimmick with I would bet my account on it.
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Gimmick might not necessarily mean big thing. I look at Wii Motion Controls anf the tablet different from everything else.

I think it would be better for Nintendo to invest in "gimmicks" like HD rumble because gimmicks like 3D for 3DS didn't really do much.
 
It's kind of wild that we got reliable rumors of the next Xbox and know when the PS5 Pro is getting released yet we still got nothing on Switch 2 release date even though it should be releasing around the PS5 Pro.
 
Meelow said:
It's kind of wild that we got reliable rumors of the next Xbox and know when the PS5 Pro is getting released yet we still got nothing on Switch 2 release date even though it should be releasing around the PS5 Pro.
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kind of used to it since Sony and Microsoft leak all of the time. Like Tom Henderson definitely has an office at Sony's HQ lmao.
 
Meelow said:
Well I mean with more powerful hardware means higher budget for games to reach its potential which means trying to lock out games from coming to certain platforms.
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And more staff to develop and more layoffs and studios closing if they fail to reach target sales.
 
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Meelow said:
It's kind of wild that we got reliable rumors of the next Xbox and know when the PS5 Pro is getting released yet we still got nothing on Switch 2 release date even though it should be releasing around the PS5 Pro.
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Nintendo is just ridiculously more stricter with controlling narrative, IPs and their stocks
 
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